DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2023 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 39 Colts 38 Postgame Thoughts

Definitely not 15/10.

Are you trying to say there's any possible way he could have caught that ball in bounds? Is that seriously what you are trying to say here? I hope not. That would be ridiculous.

I wish they kept/publicized height data. I'm not seeing it anywhere. It'd be nice to know an actual height of that pass. It'd also be nice to know the highest heights of passes that have been caught. Otherwise, we've just got a whole lot of subjective speculation.

The correct call should have been holding on the DB. Although, holding while the ball is in the air is pass interference. That is what the official called. I believe the QB was throwing the ball to DPJ, and could he have caught the ball if not interfered with? Probably not from mt perspective. Could DPJ possibly got a hand on the ball? Possibly, but we'll never know because of the hold the defender had on him. Either way it was one of those calls that caused controversy because it was called. It also could have caused controversy if it was not called because DPJ was being held. It was a penalty.

One would have to know the height of the pass when the ball could have been caught with the player still able to establish himself in bounds. For some perspective, DPJ is 6'2". If you freeze on the frame where the ball goes beyond the out of bounds line that can help give you some perspective. Of course it's still a guess but it's pretty obvious there's no way he could have caught that ball and established himself in bounds. Then of course according to what you're suggesting DPJ would have to be among the league's all time best in vertical pass catching ability which I think can be agreed he is not.

So, a defender not giving a player the opportunity to attempt to make a play is a flag that should not have been thrown? The ball was not thrown away. It did not sail into the crowd. It landed between the end zone and the stands then bounced into the stands. At what point should the official not throw a flag. They have to make a split-second decision and does not get to measure player height, height of the ball, etc... Bottom line was the defender held DPJ's arm and last I checked that was a penalty. If the ball was in the air when the hold takes place the penalty changes to PI. If the officials conferred and decided together that the pass was uncatchable then the PI should have been a holding call. I would support that. Don't you think that the officials huddle together did not have discussed that option? They choose to keep PI so they felt a play could have been made on the ball.

Its not a question of how many times out of 100 would he catch it. Its a question of could he catch it once in a million times.

He's 6'2" (~6.17'), with 33.5" (~2.8') arms, and a 44.5" (~3.7') vertical. Add those together (and subtract a foot since the arm starts at the shoulder rather than top of head) and you get 11.67 feet. Was the ball at 11.67' at any point over the end zone? He likely could actually go higher as the vert is tested from a standstill rather than moving. I'm not saying he absolutely would have caught it, but in theory he may have been able to.

It's hard to tell how high the ball actually is from the angles I've seen. There's not a level down the line view that I've seen. The all 22 has both views angled down.

The definition states it must be a catchable ball. If the ball could not have been caught in bounds it was not a catchable ball. If there is no way to have caught that ball in bounds there was never an opportunity to make a catch on that ball in the first place. Just watch the play.

It was still a penalty. Either defensive holding or PI. I am sure the officials conferred and agreed PI. Why? Because it is hard to tell if a play could have been made. Like I said ball was not thrown away it was thrown high were only his player had a chance. Defender did not allow a play to be made and a call had to be made. Holding or PI. I have seen the play and would have been good with either call. The officials decided a play could have been made and the penalty prevented that play from happening.

Perhaps if you read what I said, you'd understand.

I suggest you watch the play again. A case can certainly be made for the holding call. However that would not have placed the ball near the goal line..............

Jim Irsay says NFL 'admits' incorrect calls in Colts' loss

INDIANAPOLIS -- Colts owner Jim Irsay says the NFL "admits and understands" that two pivotal calls at the end of his team's loss to the Cleveland Browns on Sunday were incorrect.

Irsay, who posted the statement in a post on X Tuesday night, was likely referring to the team's expected follow-up with NFL officials on Monday to get further clarification on the illegal-contact and defensive-pass-interference calls in the final minute against Colts cornerback Darrell Baker Jr. The calls helped position the Browns for a 39-38 victory.

The illegal-contact call negated a would-be sack-fumble that Indianapolis recovered -- a play that would have, effectively, ended the game. At issue on that call was whether Baker actually impeded Amari Cooper's route or whether the contact was more incidental. The pass-interference penalty moments later was called despite the throw to Donovan Peoples-Jones arguably being uncatchable.

Per NFL rules, pass interference is not applicable in such situations. Because the interference call occurred in the end zone, the Browns got possession at the 1-yard line and scored the winning touchdown four plays later.

Teams routinely follow up with the league office for further context on calls with which they disagree. Colts coach Shane Steichen, who described the flags as "tough calls," said on Monday the team might take such a step with the NFL.

Those conversations happen in private and are not typically shared publicly. But Irsay took the unusual step of sharing the details in his post, writing, "The NFL admits and understands that they did not make the correct calls at end of Sunday's Colts/Browns Game. I believe we need to institute Instant Replay for all calls, including Penalties, in the last two minutes of All Games."

Irsay also announced that Colts quarterback Anthony Richardson underwent right shoulder surgery on Tuesday in Los Angeles to repair his AC joint sprain. Richardson is expected to miss the rest of the season, but Irsay said "no new surprises were found" during the procedure.

A source told ESPN the surgery was performed by Dr. Neal ElAttrache, the same surgeon who performed Achilles tendon repairs on late NBA great Kobe Bryant and New York Jets quarterback Aaron Rodgers. There is no timetable yet for Richardson's return.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38738337/jim-irsay-says-nfl-admits-incorrect-calls-colts-loss

I read it. And I still pose my question to you which you failed to address.

Go back, RE read it. Do it slowly if you must. Or don't. I don't care about you. If you knew 1/10 of what you think you know, you'd be a smart person.

I read it and you are still avoiding the question. No surprise there.

Typical. I have to dumb it down for you. The ball was NOT 15 feet in the air, and the ball did NOT land 10 yards out of bounds.

The board has a pit problem.

Exactly how high was the ball from the time it crossed the front of the end zone until it hit the back of the end zone? Without that information, it's hard to make any sort of educated prediction on whether or not it could have been caught. You keep talking about in bounds, but if he hadn't been interfered with, he may have been able to attempt a catch at an earlier point. The question is how high actually was the ball.

So are you trying to indicate it was a catchable ball in bounds? The board has an arch is avoiding the question problem.

You are correct. he ball landed between the end zone and the stands. There are not much room between the two. It bounced into the stands. I have watched it a few times. I don't believe DPJ could have caught the ball but the defender made sure he had no opportunity.

Jim Irsay says NFL informed him officials did not make 'correct calls' at end of Colts' loss to Browns

Two days after his team was flagged for two key penalties on what turned out to be the game-winning drive for the Cleveland Browns, Colts owner Jim Irsay said the league informed him officials "did not make the correct calls."

The penalties occurred at the end of Indianapolis' 39-38 loss to the Browns on Sunday. Irsay's comments, posted Tuesday night on the social media site X (formerly known as Twitter), followed discussions he said he had with league officials.

Irsay also said he believes the NFL should implement replay review for all calls -- including penalties -- in the final two minutes of every game.

The first penalty (an illegal contact call on Colts cornerback Darrell Baker Jr.) wiped out a potential game-winning fumble recovery, and the second (defensive pass interference also against Baker) gave the Browns the ball at the Colts' 1-yard line with 33 seconds left in the game.

NFL Network Insider Tom Pelissero noted on Tuesday night that the league office communicates with teams on a weekly basis about various calls, but team officials are not supposed to discuss those conversations publicly.

When asked about Irsay's comments during Wednesday's news conference, Colts head coach Shane Steichen said his attention is on Indianapolis' next opponent: the Saints.

"I'll just say that you guys know the answer, probably, to that, and we've gotta move on," Steichen said.

For the 2019 season, the NFL permitted offensive and defensive pass interference, including non-calls, to be subject to review on a one-year trial basis, but that rule was not continued for future seasons.

Most recently, NFL owners rejected a proposal to make roughing the passer penalties reviewable for the 2023 season.

https://www.nfl.com/news/jim-irsay-...s-did-not-make-correct-calls-at-end-of-c

Sounds more like an NFL problem some just can't seem to come to grips with.

No, he's saying the ball was NOT 15 feet in the air, and the ball did NOT land 10 yards out of bounds as you stated.

This whole back and forth is silly anyway.

The rule isn't governed and enforced by sports science nerds and geometry experts. Officials err on the side of impossible before saying a catch is "uncatchable". Anyone that has actually watched American-rules football knows this. Hell, in Cleveland, we have a month of Sundays screaming at the TV... seeing the same flags bail out opponents with passes that were thrown in the stands.

There's no way you can look at that play and say it was impossible to catch, especially by an elite-level leaper that was never even given the opportunity to jump.

Exactly. How many catches are made every week where fans say "how did he do that"? Was it likely he would catch it? No, but he was never given the chance. Right call, and the same types of calls have been made against us for decades and now we have infighting happening between our own fans, lol. I swear we have been beaten down so bad that some fans can't enjoy when something goes our way for once.

Jim Irsay says NFL informed him officials did not make 'correct calls' at end of Colts' loss to Browns

Two days after his team was flagged for two key penalties on what turned out to be the game-winning drive for the Cleveland Browns, Colts owner Jim Irsay said the league informed him officials "did not make the correct calls."

The penalties occurred at the end of Indianapolis' 39-38 loss to the Browns on Sunday. Irsay's comments, posted Tuesday night on the social media site X (formerly known as Twitter), followed discussions he said he had with league officials.

Irsay also said he believes the NFL should implement replay review for all calls -- including penalties -- in the final two minutes of every game.

The first penalty (an illegal contact call on Colts cornerback Darrell Baker Jr.) wiped out a potential game-winning fumble recovery, and the second (defensive pass interference also against Baker) gave the Browns the ball at the Colts' 1-yard line with 33 seconds left in the game.

NFL Network Insider Tom Pelissero noted on Tuesday night that the league office communicates with teams on a weekly basis about various calls, but team officials are not supposed to discuss those conversations publicly.

When asked about Irsay's comments during Wednesday's news conference, Colts head coach Shane Steichen said his attention is on Indianapolis' next opponent: the Saints.

"I'll just say that you guys know the answer, probably, to that, and we've gotta move on," Steichen said.

For the 2019 season, the NFL permitted offensive and defensive pass interference, including non-calls, to be subject to review on a one-year trial basis, but that rule was not continued for future seasons.

Most recently, NFL owners rejected a proposal to make roughing the passer penalties reviewable for the 2023 season.

https://www.nfl.com/news/jim-irsay-...s-did-not-make-correct-calls-at-end-of-c

That's not what the NFL said.

Jim Irsay snorts coke off hookers' bellies and pops so many pills he made Vicodin famous.

Has the NFL made a statement on this? Nope? Didn't think so.

Only Pit will turn from "the ball was 75 feet over his head" to "but, but, Jim Irsay".

Did the NFL deny the statement or fine Irsay? You poor, poor soul.

It's cool.

We'll just leave it at that.

DPJ couldn't have caught the pass in a million years because Irsay smokes crack.

Maybe you can protest the league for a Browns loss?

The league isn't even defending itself in this instance. They seem to understand what happened. At that point there's no need for me to protest anything. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

They're probably busy getting him back into rehab after he puked during the phone call.

It's funny how you want DNA evidence and scientific studies to show DPJ could have made the catch, but as far as whether the call was right... "Well, Jim Irsay said".

And the NFL has refused to deny his claim. Is this how you talk about everyone who has had addiction problems in the past? I'm hoping my prayers help you.

*snowflake mode: activated*

Now your desperation is revealing itself.

*copy/paste mode: activated*

Stupidity mode activated. Is there an off switch?

I can't see half the the posts in this thread so maybe I'm missing something, but we're talking about a DPI call. Has there ever been a game WITHOUT a questionable DPI call?

Nevermind, ignore that... are we arguing that it was a clean play, and the DB didn't touch DPJ at all? What is the argument being made here?


Seriously... if this all comes down to 2 debatable calls (DEBATABLE, not verifiably bad) that benefited us at the end of the game... and we're supposed to do what? Are we supposed to feel bad because we started a practice squad QB and didn't completely dominate and somehow won? .... apologize from here on out? F that. Go root for Buffalo, if that's how you feel.

Who said anything like that? We have had very similar bad calls go against the Browns over and over again. The only difference seems to be is when a bad call goes against the Browns people are quick to point it out but when it goes in our favor they refuse to admit it was a bad call. This doesn't begin to even the playing field when evening out all the bad calls that have went against the Browns over the years. But it's nice to see them going the other way for a change. That however does not change the fact that it was a bad call.

Why don't you go root for Buffalo? Do you even bother to read the threads or do you just make things up as you go along?

And what was Jimmy Haslam told. I don't see Jimmy Haslam told? I don't see him talking about it. I don't care what Irsay has to say. It's sour grapes for him.

What does that have to do with anything? They don't usually disclose what they were told so I doubt you will find it. But if you want to know what Halsam was told I suggest you try and find that out.

And let me ask you, if Haslam was told those were bad calls do you really think he would have a reason to make that public?

"The NFL" is paid by Irsay.

I imagine they quietly told him to stop running his mouth (likely in nicer terms.) Would you call your boss a liar in public?

Yeah, but I'm friends with him, so he'd probably laugh.

You might wish to look at a list of all the NFL owners who have been fined in the past and then get back to me. So let's see if I get this straight. You think the NFL as an organization would let this stand if it weren't true.... Mmmmm hmmmm.