I need a shower after this one.

Blood pressure coming down

Crazy game....

Garrett and the defense won this one... walker did just enough... hope Ford is healthy... don't want to see Watson again unless he's 100%... he looked awful before going out...

crazy game, but glad defense played as well as they did when it mattered...

That game was a hot mess. What a crazy win.

Gave up 38 points and we won. I still don't know how.

Myles was godly however is 2 offsides hurts the Team, 1TD and 1 long pass completion. Man, we need a backup QB

I will take this ugly butt win and bad ref calls ALL DAY!!.. because we usually dont get them

For sure I need a shower.

I have arm pit rings.

We had it all the way. I am effing trembling.

P.J. Walker is 2-0 with the Browns.

Best.QB.ever

I agree with you, but we have to mention our clutch kicker. Wow. 55, 55 & 58 yard FGs

analytics, mine, says the chiefs are doing it differently this year, lower scoring wins, and they're due to lose one of their next two.
chargers broncos

Browns, oh my gosh

OH.. BTW.. ALL you folks crying about the OLD FG kicker... KICK ROCKS!!

That game was exhausting, back and forth, emotions up and down. KS’s at times dumb-ass playcalls, PJ’s goofy throws, thinking we’d lost until the refs bailed us out.

Myles’ freakiness on display. I’ve never seen a guy hurdle the center on a FG and get the block.
Why didn’t we do some more design roll outs with Walker?
What was up with our run D?
That was so tiring of an afternoon I didn’t really celebrate like I normally would have.
On to Seattle for more thrills!!

Things I trust more than Stinkfanski's play calling:
Congress
The CDC
Fauci
Mexican Tap Water

They , """"""" attempted""""""" deep passes,,,, like the one intercepted on the 3 yard line..... and,
they're leaving the stadium winners.

it's not a coincidence.

like Dan Ackroyd said in trading places, the movie, "it's not luck, Todd"

Attempting deep passes matters, just look back to opening day against the bengals this year.

Spirit airlines

Gardner Minshew! 0-8 in games with 300 yards or more passing!

Spectrum

Garrett's two offsides gave up 10 points. It's hard to criticize him because of those three dominant plays that no doubt contributed to the win, but in addition to being the team's best player, he needs to be the smartest. He also gave up on both of those plays which is inexcusable.

Defense was crap today. Hoping it was just a one week thing. Steichen severely out coached Schwartz.

The offense under Stefanski doesn't look good with anyone...starters, backups, practice squad guys. Please, please give AVP a shot. The team needs a new voice on offense.

We won, but we easily could have lost to a team with a first year head coach, subpar talent, a backup QB, and two rookie corners. They literally have nothing to play for. They won't be in the running for anything at the end of the year. But this is just what you are going to get with Stefanski. He's a like a first year head coach in perpetuity. In year 10 of his tenure, we will still be floating around 7-10, 8-9.

Keep stacking them.

LMAO

All good points, lamp. I am flabbergasted that we won this game. A big thank you to the umpiring crew....that was most definitely an uncatchable ball (you know which one).
I have virtually zero confidence in our offensive capability, especially with Walker at the helm . Ward out with 5th concussion? We need to settle things down at QB (please trade for a competent backup), and
upgrades at LB and probably another solid CB.....

The defensive holding was a good call.

The PI was trash.

We still could have won without the PI call.

Real highs and lows this game, but we still managed a win. Some sweet calls by the refs helped us a lot.

We still need a good QB.

I’m glad we squeaked out a win. That was a crazy game, but teams gotta find multiple ways to win in this league, and we’re doing that with a backup QB, backup RT, rotating RBs, and a special needs play caller.

I wonder how long it will take till people start saying the refs gave us another game like the 9ers game. You know it's coming.

I'd say DHop gets the game ball by a slight marrgin over MG.....

Back to back STPOTW.

Crazy couple of weeks. Glad we won. I agree that I'd rather not see Watson until he's 100%. I really miss Chubb.

Being the parent of a special needs child, I find it extremely offensive.

Our kicker has been smashing it all season, but I thought Stefanski was crazy to try the 58-yard FG. 😎

Are you effing insane?

PJ Walker and we win the last two games. We put up 39 points.

It took nails to call for Hunt on that play.

You must really hate Stefanski.

The defense gives up 38 points and you are crying about Stefanski.

Damn dude.

What do you want?

Well, they did. Not that I'll enjoy the wins any less. We've been on the other end too many times.

I want Stefanski to not call 3 pass plays at the 1 yard line.

agreed

- Berry's best move has been the trade for Dustin Hopkins. What a legend!

- Watson should not have been on the field. He was terrible. This situation seems completely mismanaged. Going to be the storyline all week.

- Myles Garrett was playing our of his mind today.

- Browns stole one today, but there is no such thing as a bad win. Other Browns teams would have folded instead of fighting back.

- Ward is playing at an elite level this season. I hope he does not have another concussion.

- Good on Stefanski for putting it on the OL and running the ball on the final play. Nice block by

- Kudos to Hunt for gutting through his injury and coming up big several times today.

- The Browns have to do something about the QB situation. Berry should absolutely inquire about Brissett.

- Elijah Moore made some plays today.

- Gameballs: Myles Garrett and Dustin Hopkins

That's why KS gets the big bucks (and has his own office and gets to hold the 'clipboard')....

We need to sign Carson Wentz. At least he can throw the ball. We can’t keep winning with Walker and I have no idea when or if Watson is going to be ready.

Road games are difficult.

Having an offense is important,

no matter what they do, this offense is still piece meal at best,

It was not Amari Coopers day, he is usually money, Today< he was being interfered with on almost every play, and the refs let it go, and wrongly, for the entirety of the first ninetyfive percent of that game.

This comment was made in the gameday thread, but it was locked so i will add it here.

Myles has to stay in the game...as in mentally.

First, he played great, but two times he jumped off sides, then stood around like a dummy as the play progressed.

Myles, if you jump off side, that happens, but keep going and get a unimpeded to the QB call and whistle. Don't stand there like a goof while the other team gets a free play and makes the play.

Weird.

Yes, yes, and yes.....

Those two statements don't make sense when said one after the other.

- I'm exhausted
- Hell of a game by Hopkins ... a real nice job
- Give our offense credit for getting it done the last drive .. by an inch (that was the right play call at the end ... and the one to Njoku was AWESOME and he dropped it)
- Garrett was literally the game changer both ways ... he accounted for like 24 points today lol
- Hidden plays of the game: when we got the FG drive to end the half ... won the game for us

That waffle house menu got folded up like a day old newspaper by the 4th @uarter.

I'm not a Stefanski fan but we didn't have any timeouts so I can kind of understand it. I would have probably run on 1st or 2nd down and spiked it, but of all his stupid play calls I didn't think the last few plays were that horrible.

The injury with Watson feels similar to Baker. Just sit him until he's healthy.

Stefanski would not have done that if he had any confidence in Watson. It had nothing to do with the shoulder.

WE won, although I don't know how, but we won. We're 4-2 and I'll take it but we've had good breaks 2 weeks in a row. It won't last. WE have to get the O straightened out.

Yep. He benched Watson.

Watson also wanted no part of this game.

If I had to guess, he's not mentally strong enough to play through poor play and answer to the critics afterward. He decided to lay down after a pick and a near pick. Stefanski is taking a bullet for him.

LOL!!

1000%.

Good news. Every game I fear he will.

So we’re definitely winning in spite of Stefanski, huh?

Dudes comments just never line up. He’s as confusing at the podium as his play calling during the games.

good news on Ward

Random Observation:
SF Game - Watson declared not starting, and PJ named starter. Watson highly engaged, coaching Walker, helping somehow for a W.
Indy Game - Watson benched for possible concussion or injury, sulked on the sideline in the big orange robe. No help, not even engaged enough to try to help.

Just an observation, but it speaks to attitude and maybe even mental toughness. But that's just me. YMMV

if you would say our defense would give up 38 today I'd say we lose by 30

I’m glad we’re still running the ball well, even with the RB by committee situation. 150 yards on the ground, 3 TDs at 4.5 a clip as a team is gonna keep us in a lot of games

it looks like we're gonna need another back ... Ford will be done a while

this is such a strange situation

WE gave up way too many yards today but I did look up the stats and the Colts are ranked 11th the league in total yards. Another observation, we've been fortunate the last 2 weeks. If we play this way in Seattle, we'll have no chance of winning.

idk why it's a tear and tears can take more or less time to heal. Watson wants to play and the Browns want Watson to play.

We can't keep winning games with Walker going 15/32 for 178 yards 1 int 1 fumble a few big sacks with a few plays to getting overturned.

We need a quarterback and a running back. And if we’re serious about this year, we have to go pretty big. If we get a QB, either Walker or DTR will have to go to the practice squad. I’m not really worried about losing either one. As for RB, does anyone think Barkley or Henry could be had?

I didn't like Watson's performance today.
He almost threw a 2nd int, if he had remained in it may have been even worse.

No timeouts.

He did precisely the right thing. And it worked.

I disagree about RB unless Ford is out awhile. I don't understand the criticisms of Ford. He's good and getting better each week with more experience.

I like Milk's idea at QB. I'd be on the phone trying to get Brissett back here. He's the only one in the league that seems like he can run Stefanski's offense.

I also would not risk getting rid of DTR. He's our long-term starter after we move on from Watson. I think the team knows it too which is why they are trying not to ruin him right now.

Rishuz, I agree that Ford looks okay. I was under the impression he is hurt somewhat seriously.

I'd bet money that Watson is full of trash.

To read between the lines, if you're booting 50+ yard FGs all game, means your offense ain't doing squat

When the Bengals were winning games on 50+ yard field during their Super Bowl year, they were considered clutch. I guess we are just lousy and rely on a kicker. Maybe the past 2 games counterbalances the lousy luck we had in the Steelers game.

No one will take that bet. It is already a known fact that Watson is full of crap. He is probably my least favorite player the browns have ever had on their roster.

What an embarrassment.

Ford so far has carried 67 times for 270 yards and a 4.0 average with 1 TD & 1 Fumble

Today he had 11 carries for 74 yards & a TD with a long of 69.

his other long is also 69 yards against Pittsburgh.

For the season he has 78 attempts and 344 yards rushing with a long of 69 (2) + 2 TD and 1 fumble

128 of his 344 season rush yards came from 2 plays.

His average with those 2 plays is 4.4 and 2.85 without.

I didn’t get to watch the entire game but I heard the entire game. My wife hit me with a honey-do list this weekend that left no time for watching. But I did see Myles jump that center and block that field goal. That was crazy. I also seen DW go down, again. At first I was going to say he’s made of glass, but I see Ski claimed responsibility and Watson was cleared to come back… I do not like this. PJ does not give us the best chance to win, and I’m not sure DW gives us that. Berry MUST address the position, sooner rather than later. Ugly fun nerve wrecking win, and I’ll take that.

Once again, I’ll restate, Ski and QB are an issue. If Watson opted to sit after being cleared, he is a huge issue, if not Ski is. We can’t have our 230 million dollar main cheerleading when healthy! Who the hell does that?

Also, it seems Indy figured out how to compete with our D. I particularly saw a couple times their line sent an additional blocker to clear the second level defender we were funneling the play to. Both times I saw it, they made big plays. I don’t know what else they did, but we definitely didn’t slow them down. I hope Schwartz can clean that up this week.

Finally, 4-2 feels pretty damn good six games in. I would hate like hell to waste this spectacular D play on a season that we still fail to make the playoffs. Jimmy and Berry need to pay attention to Ski and the QB position, or we’ll be on the couch during the playoffs. Hats off to MG and our new OLD punter.

Just imagine the difference of record sticking with York versus DHop right now? Scarey thought isn't it.

haha umm is 0-6 likely with York? at least 2-4

I would like to think still 2-4, but yeah. Exactly.

4-2

The Browns need a QB

D hop will be like Phil Dawson

The teams lead scorer

Hopkins has been a really nice addition .. Berry gets props for doing that in such a swift manner this preseason

Yeah after York was terrible in pre-season, the FO said screw the draft pick and got us a vet kicker.

I just don't understand how DHop was even avaliable.

The chargers went with the young guy, Cameron Dicker, who’s 7/8 this season.

I never want to see P J Walker on the field for the Browns again. I would prefer seeing Brady Quinn pulled from the Broadcast booth to seeing Walker under Center again, and I hated Quinn. ( I almost said Football Johnny, but then reconsidered ... )

It looks like once again Pittburgh is given a win they didn't earn through evil referee calls and false spots of the ball.
It's beyond imaginable.
really incorigable

As kid, 16, watched Browns beat Colts for NFL championship- I'm blessed- I've seen the Browns as Champions......today's game was the craziest game I've ever seen/watched online- I left for church because I couldn't take anymore---the best defense in the world......what BS- we got the W, but man I couldn't believe it after coming back from church. We played lights out, then gave them points by the dozen after screwups. I'm to old for second version of Cardiac Kids. Seattle will blow us up if we play like that again--their fans and stadium are REALLY noisy and its damn tough to get a win there.....GO Browns!!!!

An ugly victory is better than a pretty loss..

At 4-2 a qb is essential to the season.

Watson was terrible, Walker not much better, and the plan to beat the Browns is to force the pass.

Yet most on here give little credit for the FO going out and making that deal. I did notice a poster earlier giving kudos for the move.

Right, Throw?!?

Why do they always get every single call?

Who will start next week?

KS said Watson will and Watson said he doesn't know lol so nobody knows yet

j/c...

Hopkins with a gameball! Naturally, JDubs rugrats are there in the mix.

The problem this creates is that Watson will take all the 1st team reps again. If Watson soils himself again and has to be pulled for mental and/or injury related issues the Browns wasted a week of practice on a guy that is not ready to play.

For crying out loud.

We win a thrilling game on the road against a team that beat the Ravens and has 3 wins.

We win on the final drive with time running out with a qb who is barely able to be in the NFL.

On the last play do or die and KS gives the ball to Kareem who barely gets the nose in.

And it's not enough?

It's never enough, bro.

Every play call has to be psychoanalyzed. All the successful ones are generally lucky or not talked about, all others are the result of an incompetent coach. Most DT members would scrap the waffle-house-play-call-sheet and just stand on the sidelines with the crystal ball they use in the gameday thread.

good for Myles ... he had a stretch today where he just dominated the entire game. That 2nd quarter is HOF resume worthy

100% sorry I forgot about him... very thankful we made the switch before the season...

Am I the only one who thinks this is completely inappropriate?

Young kids in a grown men's locker room directly after a game?

I get they are the owners grandkids, but it just seems bad and bush league and consistent with a dysfunctional organization.

I'm very annoyed by this. My guess is the players are as well.

This is the first game this year that we won when we had no business doing so.

Pretty much across the board I think we had a bad game outside of Garrett and both kickers.

That being said this is a game we would absolutely have lost a few years ago. But somehow we found a way to win no matter how ugly it was, which also says a lot about this team.

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere yet, but I'm pretty sure the broadcast said Ward was out with a head injury. Did he have another concussion?

I don’t know anything about JDub and the rug rats. Is that a kids TV show or a punk rock band?

Stefanski said no concussion.

Not sure what other kind of head injury it could be.

Is there another kind?

Stefanski said after the game that he does not have a concussion. The rest of your post is pretty spot on.

Watson is annoyed, too.

Or he's a psychopath and/or hates Hopkins.

I'd give walker every rep with first team...... Watson can sit until he's healthy....

Just wanted to add that I can’t shake the feeling Watson plays like a guy who knows he’s getting $230M guaranteed and doesn’t have to do much to earn it.

Who pays for the room Minshew or the announcers

Sure looks like a guy who doesn't want to risk much...

I have been as critical of Watson as anyone, but it was obvious that he could not drive the ball at all. He just had no zip on his throws at all, and that caused major problems.

Watson is injured. He threw exactly the way someone with a bad rotator cuff would be expected to throw. No doubt there is a dead spot in his throwing motion. IR him until he's fixed because he's not helping the team.

The defense? Oh my. They are something to see. And that blocked kick was just a Halloween trick or treat come early. Who does that? Apparently Garrett does.

4-2 right now? I don't know how to react other than to say I'm really glad it's happening. I don't know how many more games like that I can take. If we had a QB we'd be dangerous.

Only caught our last touchdown thru the end of the game. I was mystified by the colts’ 38 after our domination and stinginess of the last bunch of games. For those that watched the whole thing, what did the colts do to solve our D so effectively? I was expecting this game to be a low scoring affair. Is this something we need to be concerned about?

Sorry, but Minshew is a baller and may not be elite, but is the better QB on the field a lot of days.

Lots of bunch WR formations to expose the weakness of man to man.

Moss and Taylor are legitimate backs.

The Browns don’t have a QB. That is the concern.

https://www.totalprosports.com/nfl/...rtgmtfQDTfXKi5J5Vd_SNtQzHxiR0CBjtVJdTGuc

well... that didn't take long

JOK was conspicuously absent for a large part of the game today. Tony Fields took his snaps. Would like to hear more about this.

Good point Milk and it's something I noticed too ... it was A LOT more Fields and A LOT less JOK than we've seen (at least that was my perspective)

My only thinking during the game (besides maybe JOK was dinged up) was that the opening 2 drives the Colts were going after us with wheel routes and I noticed JOK was in coverage ... could be something we've deemed his weakness, but we didnt want to abandon going man coverage

That does not look like a legit source/site to me.

The first call was 100% spot on. It put the Browns on the 8 yard line I believe.

The second call I do agree was uncatchable - but even if it's not PI it is holding, which does not require the ball to be catchable. It wouldn't put the Browns on the 1 yard line, it would have been half the distance to the GL and been 1st and goal from the 4.

on the second penalty - During the live commentary Archuleta said he thought it was both players were grabby but that's not it at all and on part of the subsequent discussion someone even mentioned the holding. The CB has our WR's arm and is tugging on it. It's holding by any and all definitions.

It was a good move. The issue is York was so bad the move doesn't really deserve an awful lot of credit as if this was some sort of coup.... it was a no-brainer that most everyone was saying had to happen. Hopkins (thankfully) was available and the best option out there.

I wasn't going to comment until I had read the entire thread but had to comment on this one.

The thought on Hopkins was he had somewhat limited distance. I don't know where that came from because I am not seeing it. That kick from 58 yards looked like it could have made it from 63 yards. Unless people expect a kicker to nail 70 yard kicks, DH doesn't lack distance.

The biggest question I have on him is why was he even available?

Great that we got the win. As I posted above - I don't think we were lucky with the penalties at the end of the game, both penalties were deserved.

I'm happy we won, happy Myles played out of his gourd to create a couple of game chaning plays and while he did have a couple of penalties that's been a consistent through most of his career. He's either outstanding at guessing the snap or lucky - but he has been flagged for encroachment 'frequently' .... if that's the price you pay for 82 sacks and beating Reggie White's record of the number of sacks before age 28, so be it. I might be most happy that we finally have a kicker - and dude deserves a bonus.

I'm concerned about a couple of things in the game.

Watson - either he wasn't healthy as some have suggested: In which case there are truly serious questions to be raised on KS for playing him. Or he was healthy up to the point at which he left the game and we have continued concerns over his level of play. I don't see a middle ground where somehow we shouldn't talk about either side of that coin.

More Watson - the situation, the comments by Stefanski, the way DW carried hmself the rest of the game. Either confusing or concerning or both.

PJ Walker - did not look good. Aparently took no first team snaps for the two days prior to the game. Again - serious questions about heading into a season with a talent laden roster expecting to challenge for the Division/play offs. DTR is your back up based on a couple stand out preseason games against players no longer in the NFL ... PJ Walker is your 3rd option and is not good and not getting groomed to be given a chance if he does get called upon. Serious questions about Berry/KS to use those two as your options behiind DW. Questionable at best decision not to prep PJ knowing DW is trying to come back from an injury.

On the defense - I 'm not going to stress over 1 game. If we give up multiple 75 yard TD drives next game maybe we'll have something to discuss. They made some big plays that helped win the game as well as giving up some of those drives. I thought Minshew played a great game - if we had QB play like that we'd have wiped the floor with them.

Play calling - I had no problem with the pitch out that went wrong, I thought KS got a little too pass happy for a little while in the 3rd Q but after the PJ interception it got a little more balanced again. At the end of the game - 1st and 1 yard with 45 seconds left on the clock. . . . I would have liked to have seen a run or QB sneak on 1st down. You have enough time to run and get set again if it gets stuffed.... you'd have at least 20-25 seconds on the clock to call 3 more plays. Having said that the pass to Njoku was a phenominal defensive play punching the ball out to prevent the td. . . the shovel pass was there and was dropped . . . I don't remember the 3rd pass before Hunt ran it in. But having seen PJ struggle, knowing he didn't get 1st team reps for 2 days, I think a run on first down would have been the smartest call personally.

On to Seattle. Maybe we'll get more answers.

A lot of this guys articles are nothing more than finding fan tweets. Both calls were legit, and like you said....even if the PI play was an uncatchable pass, it was obvious holding.

The PI was the right call. The holding threw off the timing of the play and PJ was just putting out of the endzone.

As for play calling I think the handoff to Ford was a bad play call. At least until he broke it for a long TD run. My point is it is easy to say a play was a bad call when we know the play didn't work.

We scored enough points to win the game. That is good enough for me.

Yeah, when we got him, most people said "he's good from 45 and in" ... which I was cool with because we needed a solid kicker who could be relied upon to stabilize the position

A month later and the guy is making 50+ yarders to help with victories ... that's a good way to live

Jake Trotter
@Jake_Trotter
·
8m
#Browns efficiency rankings:
Offense: 31
Defense: 1
Special teams: 2

- A win is a win. Yes, people will talk about those last two calls against the Colts. How many times have we lost games because of those kind of calls? Or ones much, much, worse. I am not apologizing for it, we've been on the wrong end of these games. A lot.

- Watson was not ready.

- Before this game our D has been steady and smothering. Just not allowing first downs, etc. This one was different. They were scorched for big plays, but then made big plays. Nice to see the forced turnovers.

- The blocked FG was unreal. Would have liked to see the expression on the kicker's face when he noticed Myles standing there on the wrong side of his line.

- There was some noise this past off-season that Cade York's issues were because of the holder. I'm thinking that is not the case.

- Haven't bothered to look at the numbers for the Chargers kicker. Wonder how the guy who beat Hopkins for the job is panning out.

- Would really like to see less of Bryant trying to block.

- An ugly win is a win. Onward.

That is insane.

For the second week in a row, this felt like the type of game the Browns lose at the last minute in past years but are able to come through and find a way to win. From top to bottom, this team doesn't seem to give up and found a way to win at the last moment. I think this speaks volumes for a team with poor QB play overall on the season.

- PJ Walker is baaaaaad. There is just no way around it. I appreciate the ability to drive the the field with a little help from penalties, but he ain't it if Watson is going to sit for an extended amount of games.

- Tough to gauge the defensive performance after giving up so many points and big plays yet making big plays themselves to keep the team in the game. There was poor tackling, miscommunication, and at least in the first half, played the cliché "uninspired' football. Myles Garrett is absolutely amazing. The DL has such a nice rotation of talent to keep legs fresh towards the end of the game. Maybe someone has this information but it seemed to me that the defense played more zone than man yesterday. Obviously, I couldn't tell every play but it would be interesting to know. The run defense is something to watch moving forward and Indy was pretty much able to move the ball at will. We stopped them towards the end, but their two-headed monster of Taylor and Moss did well.

- Something is up with Watson, clearly. There were a ton of run calls that seemed inconsistent with Watson being on the field and felt the team saw something wrong after a couple of throws. If I had to speculate, Watson is telling coaches and doctors that he is more ready/healthy than he actually is because he wants to play. And probably, the FO & Stefanski wanted to believe him more than they probably should because he is by far the best option and they've seen Walker and DTR play thus far....which was ugly. Once Stefanski saw him throw a few passes, he saw enough. So in the sense that Stefanski said he was protecting Watson, I believe him when he said that. He was protecting Watson from himself and not keeping him out there if he wasn't fully ready to go. I think the same things applies this week....another week of monitoring his healing process and will go week-to-week. I, personally, don't think they will put him on IR.

- If Walker starts, it will be another though go against Seattle.

Seattle -2.5
Over/Under 40.5

I don't expect Walker to start ... just a hunch, but it will be either Watson or someone else we can find

Walker has been admirable to step in, but the last two wins have been pretty flukey with such a bad offense

Playing at Seattle is a different challenge than Indy ... their offense is good and they have a tough environment

PSA: In a few minutes, Aditi Kinkhabwala (sideline reporter from yesterday's game) will be on 92.3 The Fan. She basically was monitoring Watson all game long and probably has additional insight from what she saw.

thanks Memphis ... can anyone provide a few updates from the interview?

I'm sure the station will on twitter for people to share.

One thing that I don't think is getting talked about enough is the last 2 minutes of the first have .. We scored 10 points in about a minute and twenty seconds . I don't know how many times we have been on the other side of that .

okay thanks

good point. That's a huge reason we won the game. We ended both halves so strongly. And the first half was perfect management on our end

In short, there was nothing new or earth shattering.

lol okay thanks bud

Yes, the last minutes of each half was the difference in the game. That is coaching. Kevin Stefanski deserves the credit here. 10 points end of half and 7 end of game. That is coaching.

and when we were up 24-21 (maybe 1:30 left) they had the ball and we dropped them for a loss on 1st down ... we called a timeout, which was kind of risky and could have backfired

that was a really nice coaching move that allowed us the chance to go up 27-21 at half

haha that is WILD

I have no idea what this is and can't really decipher from any of the comments.

jc...

I finished watching a replay of the game late last night and came away thinking "how lucky" could the Browns be..to do just enough to win the game vs Colts.

The Browns defense was horrible at times with our LBs disappearing and our DBs looking like they were afraid to tackle...Schwartz's defense got exposed big time, giving up 456 yds of offense to the Colts playing with their backup QB.

The only bright spot on defense was the Browns DLine.

The Browns have a QB problem attempting to play with a QB who seems to made of glass. Watson is broken and just a shell of what he used to be. He is out of shape physically and mentally, Watson looks confused and lost.

The Browns front office DID NOT plan for a worst case scenario at QB as they spent the off-season dreaming of the Watson who played for the Texans in 2020 and passed for over 4800 yds and passed for 33 TDs in 2020. I don't know where the 2020 Deshaun Watson went, but it appears that his game is gone.

Berry, Stefanski, Haslam and others, did not plan for "reality" and the Watson we see today as they booted all their backup QBs preferring to hand the backup duties to a Rookie, DTR. The first QB Berry gave the "boot to" was the perfect backup for the Browns, Jacoby Brissett...an experienced veteran who had already proven that he has the talent to step in and take over if the Browns should have a problem with Watson.

But, ANDY BERRY did not recognize the true value that Brissett could have added to the offense if a WORST CASE SCENARIO occurred...such as Watson being injured and broken. That decision (and judgement) by Berry was a huge mistake and could end up costing the Browns a legitimate shot at the playoffs. There are stories that Berry has attempted to get Brissett back but the Commanders won't let him go.

It's great to see the Browns win these last two games but Berry and Stefanski must find a QB capable of leading the offense to the playoffs.

Thank goodness the Browns have Myles Garrett and Dustin Hopkins...both came to play yesterday and turned in outstanding performances.

you bring up a good point about Watson's shape. He is not anywhere near the athlete he was 2-3 years ago, and you can see him struggle with it. He relied so heavily on his legs and eluding the rush that he could extend plays and find open receivers.

with his tenure here, he's much slower and it makes his eyes drop down to look at the rushers ... he's simply got heavier legs and slower eyes

The dude predicted wins/losses before the season and got shade thrown at him from every angle. It appears it was justified, because if you look closely at whether he selected W/L in the background, he was wrong on literally every single W/L that he predicted so far.

yeah, he is literally 0-6 haha ... I could see him picking us to be 6-11, but the ones he picked us to win/lose were awful

Please tell me you or someone tagged Old Takes Exposed on that, Memphis.

Dude is a perfect 0-6 in picking the Browns games this year.

Ahhh... thanks guys, I should have been able to figure that out. Somehow, the three different colors of the W's and L's threw me. He's gotta be catching some grief from Browns fans lol.

Sadly, he'd probably still beat me in the pick 'ems.

Are you sure? I thought Fields was filling in for Takitaki since he was out with a hammy. When Fields got hurt it was Adams who came in for him.

I just checked the snap counts. Fields and JOK played 46% and 49%of the snaps with McLeod playing 20%

An interesting collection of data on Watson from his Situational Stats on NFL.com.
I went there to see how this year stacks up against what he used to be and in the process stumbled on this bit of data

https://www.nfl.com/players/deshaun-watson/stats/situational/



When playing from behind, regardless of by how much, he has a passer rating of 81.7, no INTs, and a 30% 1st Down rate, but his completion rate is barely above 50%.

When playing a tied game, however, his passer rating plummets to 55.4, with 2 INT, and the 1st Down rate drops to 25%, but, oddly, his completion rate is 62.5%.
When Tied or Behind, he's hitting only 5.3 Avg Yds and averages 4 Sacks


When playing with a Lead:

Lead 1-8 Pts: Passer Rating is 64.5, 1 INT, 28.5% 1st down rate, 56.4% completion rate, 6.3 Avg Yds
Lead 9+ Pts: Rating is 140.6, 0 INT, 50% 1st down rate, 75% completion rate, 8.8 Avg Yds
When playing with a lead, his Sack average drops to 2 or less


Just looking at these numbers, I think the dude is playing WAAAAY too tight and doesn't play well until/unless there is no pressure.

Additionally, his rating is in the tank for his first 10 passes, but it goes up the more attempts he takes.
He is also really good in both red zones, but between the 20's, he's borderline atrocious.

thanks for those stats Prp. Watson has said that he's historically a slow starter (and maybe he means in single games too). It would be nice to give him a few series to get his feet wet, although I'm not sure we are in position to waste that many ... especially if it's a Seattle, Baltimore, Pittsburgh etc

PFF CLE Browns
@PFF_Browns
Dawand Jones vs the Colts

40 pass blocking snaps
1 pressure allowed
0 sacks allowed

Camryn Justice
@camijustice
·
2m
#Browns Kevin Stefanski said they'll continue taking Deshaun Watson's shoulder injury day to day.

Not me....yet. I'll wait a few more weeks.

The 'starting slow' and being bad between the 20's is interesting. I'm curious what could be behind that.

Your earlier post sounds like correlation vs causation. I think it makes perfect sense that he'd have worse numbers in games where his team is losing. He basically WAS the offense in Houston IIRC.

Could be. I have coached a lot of baseball....HS and college players in summer leagues. Some guys cruise until pushed to perform or it was time to pad numbers.

I would call them slack to their face, in a teaching kind of way. You play hard from start to finish. If hustle and attitude slump, that's on nobody or anything but you. Hustle and attitude are always 100% in your control.

I suspect Watson never played baseball to any degree. Baseball teaches failure because in baseball you fail at a high percentage of the time.

oh, it's definitely not enough data points to come to anything definitively conclusive, by any means, but it is enough to get one wondering and realizing that there may be more to look at, even if the end conclusion is that there's nothing to see there.

I mean, clearly, there is a fire.... we just have to figure out where the smoke is so we can put it out.

"He is also really good in both red zones, but between the 20's, he's borderline atrocious."

Not sure how dramatic these stats are other than knowing it's definitely fair to take Purp's takes at face value. But the rest of your post helps answer your question, from a 'food for thought' pov, anyway.

Inside your own 20, defenses know they have an entire field behind them, I would think most QBs compare similarly. Inside the Red Zone? He's a dual threat QB, and in a situation where even a short run could be devastating, maybe that opens things up for him from a "production" standpoint? A QB like Watson is able to move in the pocket and make the choice between a 'good' pass and a short gain with his legs.

Between the 20s tells the tale of a crappy team having heavy influence on his personal stats. Against teams where they were plainly outmatched (most of their opponents), you're spending the entire game there. You're stinking up the stats between the 20s without having much opportunity to get in the redzone and stink them up there.

Just two cents worth of some over-analysis.

I think some of it is that Watson has always been a somewhat streaky passer. Unfortunately, he's had more cold streaks than hot streaks here. I think the surrounding environment is a factor. It's hard to get hot when your own team's fans treat you like a villain, and you are used to being the hero. He might have to learn to embrace the hate and play the heel. It's not something he's had to do before.

Perhaps someone with a better football acumen than me can chime in here, but could the possibility be that coverages are much more simple inside both 20's (albeit for opposite reasons)?

First and foremost I would like to thank the official who made the phantom PI call late in the 4th quarter that allowed Hunt to go into the end zone for the late game TD that secured the victory. That pass attempt was so out of bounds it would have been impossible for the WR to have caught in in bounds. It was an uncatcahable ball. Please do not think your contribution to the W went unnoticed or unappreciated. Far too many times throughout the years such calls have gone in the other direction. At least your call helped even things out......... a little bit.

In regards to the D, they looked bad and bad is putting it mildly. But this is the first time they've looked that way. So for now I'm going to call it an anomaly rather than a warning sign.

Once again the Browns won ugly. A game that could have gone in either direction. One of those very close games that people have complained never went the Browns way in the past. Claiming that good teams find a way to win those close ones. And it has been done without a legitimate QB. Now they have won that type of game for two weeks in a row. And yet people still complain.

No legitimate QB. Browns record is 4-2. Some people never let facts get in the way of finding a reason to whine.

I was more surprised it was PI and not defensive holding. To me it was an obvious holding call, unless for some strange reason you can't call defensive holding if the ball is in the air, and you are the intended receiver. I know it can be called away from the ball because it is done all the time.

It doesn't get the ball to the 1 yard line, but first and goal inside the 5. No doubt in my mind it was a penalty, maybe not PI but at minimum holding. I have watched it 4 times and the DB grabs his arm for an extended period of time.

The Browns have been on the other side of questionable calls for what seems like forever. Remember the Raider game when they reviewed if it was a first down or not and actually changed the call when it was obviously correct to begin with. We had a facemask call against us recently when the offensive player also grabbed our defenders and yanked the helmet down.

I can even remember in 75 or 76 when we kicked off to Pittsburgh in OT and their returner fumbled without being touched. Browns recovered at about the 30 but refs blew it dead. Steelers scored on a flea flicker to TE Bennie Cunningham.

I don't consider the call a gift and I won't apologize for winning a game if it had been. The Browns are due for some breaks.
he

You don't have to go back that far. The holding/PI no-call vs Steelers on the final play (?) of the game.

I live in Cinci, and all my hockey buddies were chirping about the 2 calls. My response was that even IF those calls were as bad as they were making them out to be, that could keep going all year and I wouldn't sweat it one bit. That's how much karma this team has banked up.

Actually I think it’s incredible the number of grabs and holds no calls I’ve seen across the league each week. Then someone grabs a jersey for a split second and out comes the flag.

Just to add to this point, I have noticed in pregame warmups he always wears a t-shirt with a Browns legend on it. I always felt a little off about that like he was trying to buy likes from fans.

and as the game continued yesterday, Watson kept covering up more and more ... nothing, then winter hat, then big jacket ... reading his body language, he's super uncomfortable in this setting (and with the idea of being a vilified person, not playing well, etc)

Or maybe he was feeling the cool air.

I’ve seen a lot of crazy browns games but yesterday might have topped them all. I literally almost didn’t care if we won, by the end of it. Just end this torture!


When walker got stripped at the end and they recovered, I thought it was over, but they had a penalty, then another. We had 1st and goal at the one and three incompletions later Hunt barely crossed the goal line for the W.

It was a roller-coaster game, lead changes galore, big plays all over the place.

It ain’t easy.

We're 4-2 and I'm happy about it but it doesn't feel like a 4-2 record. Strange season thus far

The Steelers are 4-2 and have been out gained by over 600 yards.

Outscored by 24 too. Only in Pittsburgh

I have noticed this as well. I was a big fan of Watson at both Clemson and Houston. You used to watch him, and he he was so much faster than his combine 40 time. He would excel getting out of trouble, and presenting issues for defenses when he would then take off. He appears to be a shell of himself, while still possessing some athletic gifts...those jets are nowhere to be seen. Just seems to me that his body, is much more older than his given age at 28. Prior to him getting his shoulder hurt, I was saying he's going to get himself killed by trying to be his former self...because he just doesn't seem to have that high end trait while eluding anymore....for whatever reason, I'm not sure.

As bad as P.J. Walker has looked the last eight days, (not always, but a lot of it) he’s led the Browns to a pair of game winning drives, when he had to. Props.

I agree lamp. Give Walker credit because he DID make big throws to Moore, Cooper, DPJ, etc ... it's been UGLY at times, but he's given us just enough to squeak them out

My understanding is holding is called before the ball is in the air. PI is called on when the ball is in the air and is headed towards the receiver to which the ball was thrown.

I think the call was borderline, but not out of the realm. The contact was made in a way that prevented our receiver from being able to jump to attempt to catch the ball. The ball wasn't so far over his head to say he couldn't get to the ball. Nobody can factor the geometry on that is a split second. What they can factor is that he was never given the opportunity to catch the ball.

There should never be a situation where you can grab and pull receivers arm with both hands before the ball arrives and not get a call.

Cannot believe the amount of hate the Refs are getting for this game. Yikes..

I am a big fan of refs swallowing their whistles late in games and letting tbe players decide close games. You never want a ref to decide the game, imo.

My argument that the refs did not decide the game are the first holding was legitimate. The PI I thought was a terrible call but all it did was put the Browns at the one. I believe they still would have had two plays to win it had the PI not been called.

Now was PJ getting them in the endzone in those two plays? We'll never know.

I sure didn't like the no call on the blatant holding of DPJ by the Steelers CB on 4th down of the Monday night game. You win some and you lose some. Last two weeks the calls went the Browns way. I'm not going to apologize because a penalty was committed and was called. Just like the Steelers did not apologize when the penalty was committed and not called, and the Browns were not given a chance to win that game in the last minute.

just like we imagined: a complete rollercoaster lol

This 100.

I've been saying this for two days and nobody seems to wrap their brains around it. DPJ didn't intend to just fall out of bounds and watch the ball go over his head... he looks as if he was gathering to jump just as he's anchored to the ground by the hold. Combine that with the fact that officials very seldom try to 'predict' whether a player can make a catch, ie... it has to be a pass way, way over the WR's head anymore. And honestly, personally? I'd probably rather have a 1st and G at the 8yd than the 1yd. That call was made on 1st and G, it's not like we got bailed out on a 3rd and 20.

I agree.

No matter the ref called it as he saw it. Good or bad I have seen way worse calls.

Hell on the run by Hunt the guy was pulling Kareem back by his face mask.

I have seen roughing the passer calls that were damn near criminal. Where the qb was barely touched.

When the final whistle blows the game is in the books. I don't play "we coulda/shoulda" anything.

The record is 4-2.

j/c

In my opinion, the illegal contact call on Cooper WAS warranted ... Walker was holding onto the ball waiting for Cooper, who was being held up ... that's the definition of illegal contact

The DPI was more questionable and should have just been called a defensive hold IMO ... that would have put the ball at the 5 instead of the 1

j/c

The ball was 15 feet up in the air as it crossed the back of the end zone and landed over 10 yards out of bounds and people have convinced themselves he had a chance to catch that ball. That's hilarious.

Who said that? Just so we can reenter the world of reality...

This is from Peen's post...............

I took it to mean it was within the realm of possibility... which it was.

You saying it was 15 feet high and ten yards out of the endzone was much more of an exaggeration.

I've gone back and watched a few more times... That ball looked to cross the endline at about 10-11'.

DPJ has one of the best verticals in the history of the NFL. Second highest in 15 previous years when he was drafted and better than 95% (conservative) of the NBA.

He can get up very close to 12 feet if unimpeded.

And again, officials only call that if it's obvious to just about anyone on the planet.

You need to look again.

I figured as much.

First you claimed nobody said it because it wasn't reality. Now you claim it's reality. lmao

Curious to see if the NFL fines Irsay or where this goes...

Watch the replay.

The ball was not 15 feet in the air as it crossed the back of the end zone. And the ball did not land 10 yards out of bounds. Look at the endzone. There's not even 10 yards from the back of the endzone to the seats. Here:

Shoot, as a high schooler I almost caught a pass that was just under the crossbar of the goal post.

Definitely not 15/10.

Are you trying to say there's any possible way he could have caught that ball in bounds? Is that seriously what you are trying to say here? I hope not. That would be ridiculous.

I wish they kept/publicized height data. I'm not seeing it anywhere. It'd be nice to know an actual height of that pass. It'd also be nice to know the highest heights of passes that have been caught. Otherwise, we've just got a whole lot of subjective speculation.

The correct call should have been holding on the DB. Although, holding while the ball is in the air is pass interference. That is what the official called. I believe the QB was throwing the ball to DPJ, and could he have caught the ball if not interfered with? Probably not from mt perspective. Could DPJ possibly got a hand on the ball? Possibly, but we'll never know because of the hold the defender had on him. Either way it was one of those calls that caused controversy because it was called. It also could have caused controversy if it was not called because DPJ was being held. It was a penalty.

One would have to know the height of the pass when the ball could have been caught with the player still able to establish himself in bounds. For some perspective, DPJ is 6'2". If you freeze on the frame where the ball goes beyond the out of bounds line that can help give you some perspective. Of course it's still a guess but it's pretty obvious there's no way he could have caught that ball and established himself in bounds. Then of course according to what you're suggesting DPJ would have to be among the league's all time best in vertical pass catching ability which I think can be agreed he is not.

So, a defender not giving a player the opportunity to attempt to make a play is a flag that should not have been thrown? The ball was not thrown away. It did not sail into the crowd. It landed between the end zone and the stands then bounced into the stands. At what point should the official not throw a flag. They have to make a split-second decision and does not get to measure player height, height of the ball, etc... Bottom line was the defender held DPJ's arm and last I checked that was a penalty. If the ball was in the air when the hold takes place the penalty changes to PI. If the officials conferred and decided together that the pass was uncatchable then the PI should have been a holding call. I would support that. Don't you think that the officials huddle together did not have discussed that option? They choose to keep PI so they felt a play could have been made on the ball.

Its not a question of how many times out of 100 would he catch it. Its a question of could he catch it once in a million times.

He's 6'2" (~6.17'), with 33.5" (~2.8') arms, and a 44.5" (~3.7') vertical. Add those together (and subtract a foot since the arm starts at the shoulder rather than top of head) and you get 11.67 feet. Was the ball at 11.67' at any point over the end zone? He likely could actually go higher as the vert is tested from a standstill rather than moving. I'm not saying he absolutely would have caught it, but in theory he may have been able to.

It's hard to tell how high the ball actually is from the angles I've seen. There's not a level down the line view that I've seen. The all 22 has both views angled down.

The definition states it must be a catchable ball. If the ball could not have been caught in bounds it was not a catchable ball. If there is no way to have caught that ball in bounds there was never an opportunity to make a catch on that ball in the first place. Just watch the play.

It was still a penalty. Either defensive holding or PI. I am sure the officials conferred and agreed PI. Why? Because it is hard to tell if a play could have been made. Like I said ball was not thrown away it was thrown high were only his player had a chance. Defender did not allow a play to be made and a call had to be made. Holding or PI. I have seen the play and would have been good with either call. The officials decided a play could have been made and the penalty prevented that play from happening.

Perhaps if you read what I said, you'd understand.

I suggest you watch the play again. A case can certainly be made for the holding call. However that would not have placed the ball near the goal line..............

Jim Irsay says NFL 'admits' incorrect calls in Colts' loss

INDIANAPOLIS -- Colts owner Jim Irsay says the NFL "admits and understands" that two pivotal calls at the end of his team's loss to the Cleveland Browns on Sunday were incorrect.

Irsay, who posted the statement in a post on X Tuesday night, was likely referring to the team's expected follow-up with NFL officials on Monday to get further clarification on the illegal-contact and defensive-pass-interference calls in the final minute against Colts cornerback Darrell Baker Jr. The calls helped position the Browns for a 39-38 victory.

The illegal-contact call negated a would-be sack-fumble that Indianapolis recovered -- a play that would have, effectively, ended the game. At issue on that call was whether Baker actually impeded Amari Cooper's route or whether the contact was more incidental. The pass-interference penalty moments later was called despite the throw to Donovan Peoples-Jones arguably being uncatchable.

Per NFL rules, pass interference is not applicable in such situations. Because the interference call occurred in the end zone, the Browns got possession at the 1-yard line and scored the winning touchdown four plays later.

Teams routinely follow up with the league office for further context on calls with which they disagree. Colts coach Shane Steichen, who described the flags as "tough calls," said on Monday the team might take such a step with the NFL.

Those conversations happen in private and are not typically shared publicly. But Irsay took the unusual step of sharing the details in his post, writing, "The NFL admits and understands that they did not make the correct calls at end of Sunday's Colts/Browns Game. I believe we need to institute Instant Replay for all calls, including Penalties, in the last two minutes of All Games."

Irsay also announced that Colts quarterback Anthony Richardson underwent right shoulder surgery on Tuesday in Los Angeles to repair his AC joint sprain. Richardson is expected to miss the rest of the season, but Irsay said "no new surprises were found" during the procedure.

A source told ESPN the surgery was performed by Dr. Neal ElAttrache, the same surgeon who performed Achilles tendon repairs on late NBA great Kobe Bryant and New York Jets quarterback Aaron Rodgers. There is no timetable yet for Richardson's return.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38738337/jim-irsay-says-nfl-admits-incorrect-calls-colts-loss

I read it. And I still pose my question to you which you failed to address.

Go back, RE read it. Do it slowly if you must. Or don't. I don't care about you. If you knew 1/10 of what you think you know, you'd be a smart person.

I read it and you are still avoiding the question. No surprise there.

Typical. I have to dumb it down for you. The ball was NOT 15 feet in the air, and the ball did NOT land 10 yards out of bounds.

The board has a pit problem.

Exactly how high was the ball from the time it crossed the front of the end zone until it hit the back of the end zone? Without that information, it's hard to make any sort of educated prediction on whether or not it could have been caught. You keep talking about in bounds, but if he hadn't been interfered with, he may have been able to attempt a catch at an earlier point. The question is how high actually was the ball.

So are you trying to indicate it was a catchable ball in bounds? The board has an arch is avoiding the question problem.

You are correct. he ball landed between the end zone and the stands. There are not much room between the two. It bounced into the stands. I have watched it a few times. I don't believe DPJ could have caught the ball but the defender made sure he had no opportunity.

Jim Irsay says NFL informed him officials did not make 'correct calls' at end of Colts' loss to Browns

Two days after his team was flagged for two key penalties on what turned out to be the game-winning drive for the Cleveland Browns, Colts owner Jim Irsay said the league informed him officials "did not make the correct calls."

The penalties occurred at the end of Indianapolis' 39-38 loss to the Browns on Sunday. Irsay's comments, posted Tuesday night on the social media site X (formerly known as Twitter), followed discussions he said he had with league officials.

Irsay also said he believes the NFL should implement replay review for all calls -- including penalties -- in the final two minutes of every game.

The first penalty (an illegal contact call on Colts cornerback Darrell Baker Jr.) wiped out a potential game-winning fumble recovery, and the second (defensive pass interference also against Baker) gave the Browns the ball at the Colts' 1-yard line with 33 seconds left in the game.

NFL Network Insider Tom Pelissero noted on Tuesday night that the league office communicates with teams on a weekly basis about various calls, but team officials are not supposed to discuss those conversations publicly.

When asked about Irsay's comments during Wednesday's news conference, Colts head coach Shane Steichen said his attention is on Indianapolis' next opponent: the Saints.

"I'll just say that you guys know the answer, probably, to that, and we've gotta move on," Steichen said.

For the 2019 season, the NFL permitted offensive and defensive pass interference, including non-calls, to be subject to review on a one-year trial basis, but that rule was not continued for future seasons.

Most recently, NFL owners rejected a proposal to make roughing the passer penalties reviewable for the 2023 season.

https://www.nfl.com/news/jim-irsay-...s-did-not-make-correct-calls-at-end-of-c

Sounds more like an NFL problem some just can't seem to come to grips with.

No, he's saying the ball was NOT 15 feet in the air, and the ball did NOT land 10 yards out of bounds as you stated.

This whole back and forth is silly anyway.

The rule isn't governed and enforced by sports science nerds and geometry experts. Officials err on the side of impossible before saying a catch is "uncatchable". Anyone that has actually watched American-rules football knows this. Hell, in Cleveland, we have a month of Sundays screaming at the TV... seeing the same flags bail out opponents with passes that were thrown in the stands.

There's no way you can look at that play and say it was impossible to catch, especially by an elite-level leaper that was never even given the opportunity to jump.

Exactly. How many catches are made every week where fans say "how did he do that"? Was it likely he would catch it? No, but he was never given the chance. Right call, and the same types of calls have been made against us for decades and now we have infighting happening between our own fans, lol. I swear we have been beaten down so bad that some fans can't enjoy when something goes our way for once.

Jim Irsay says NFL informed him officials did not make 'correct calls' at end of Colts' loss to Browns

Two days after his team was flagged for two key penalties on what turned out to be the game-winning drive for the Cleveland Browns, Colts owner Jim Irsay said the league informed him officials "did not make the correct calls."

The penalties occurred at the end of Indianapolis' 39-38 loss to the Browns on Sunday. Irsay's comments, posted Tuesday night on the social media site X (formerly known as Twitter), followed discussions he said he had with league officials.

Irsay also said he believes the NFL should implement replay review for all calls -- including penalties -- in the final two minutes of every game.

The first penalty (an illegal contact call on Colts cornerback Darrell Baker Jr.) wiped out a potential game-winning fumble recovery, and the second (defensive pass interference also against Baker) gave the Browns the ball at the Colts' 1-yard line with 33 seconds left in the game.

NFL Network Insider Tom Pelissero noted on Tuesday night that the league office communicates with teams on a weekly basis about various calls, but team officials are not supposed to discuss those conversations publicly.

When asked about Irsay's comments during Wednesday's news conference, Colts head coach Shane Steichen said his attention is on Indianapolis' next opponent: the Saints.

"I'll just say that you guys know the answer, probably, to that, and we've gotta move on," Steichen said.

For the 2019 season, the NFL permitted offensive and defensive pass interference, including non-calls, to be subject to review on a one-year trial basis, but that rule was not continued for future seasons.

Most recently, NFL owners rejected a proposal to make roughing the passer penalties reviewable for the 2023 season.

https://www.nfl.com/news/jim-irsay-...s-did-not-make-correct-calls-at-end-of-c

That's not what the NFL said.

Jim Irsay snorts coke off hookers' bellies and pops so many pills he made Vicodin famous.

Has the NFL made a statement on this? Nope? Didn't think so.

Only Pit will turn from "the ball was 75 feet over his head" to "but, but, Jim Irsay".

Did the NFL deny the statement or fine Irsay? You poor, poor soul.

It's cool.

We'll just leave it at that.

DPJ couldn't have caught the pass in a million years because Irsay smokes crack.

Maybe you can protest the league for a Browns loss?

The league isn't even defending itself in this instance. They seem to understand what happened. At that point there's no need for me to protest anything. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

They're probably busy getting him back into rehab after he puked during the phone call.

It's funny how you want DNA evidence and scientific studies to show DPJ could have made the catch, but as far as whether the call was right... "Well, Jim Irsay said".

And the NFL has refused to deny his claim. Is this how you talk about everyone who has had addiction problems in the past? I'm hoping my prayers help you.

*snowflake mode: activated*

Now your desperation is revealing itself.

*copy/paste mode: activated*

Stupidity mode activated. Is there an off switch?

I can't see half the the posts in this thread so maybe I'm missing something, but we're talking about a DPI call. Has there ever been a game WITHOUT a questionable DPI call?

Nevermind, ignore that... are we arguing that it was a clean play, and the DB didn't touch DPJ at all? What is the argument being made here?


Seriously... if this all comes down to 2 debatable calls (DEBATABLE, not verifiably bad) that benefited us at the end of the game... and we're supposed to do what? Are we supposed to feel bad because we started a practice squad QB and didn't completely dominate and somehow won? .... apologize from here on out? F that. Go root for Buffalo, if that's how you feel.

Who said anything like that? We have had very similar bad calls go against the Browns over and over again. The only difference seems to be is when a bad call goes against the Browns people are quick to point it out but when it goes in our favor they refuse to admit it was a bad call. This doesn't begin to even the playing field when evening out all the bad calls that have went against the Browns over the years. But it's nice to see them going the other way for a change. That however does not change the fact that it was a bad call.

Why don't you go root for Buffalo? Do you even bother to read the threads or do you just make things up as you go along?

And what was Jimmy Haslam told. I don't see Jimmy Haslam told? I don't see him talking about it. I don't care what Irsay has to say. It's sour grapes for him.

What does that have to do with anything? They don't usually disclose what they were told so I doubt you will find it. But if you want to know what Halsam was told I suggest you try and find that out.

And let me ask you, if Haslam was told those were bad calls do you really think he would have a reason to make that public?

"The NFL" is paid by Irsay.

I imagine they quietly told him to stop running his mouth (likely in nicer terms.) Would you call your boss a liar in public?

Yeah, but I'm friends with him, so he'd probably laugh.

You might wish to look at a list of all the NFL owners who have been fined in the past and then get back to me. So let's see if I get this straight. You think the NFL as an organization would let this stand if it weren't true.... Mmmmm hmmmm.

Consistency isn't the league's strength. *shrug*

j/c

Examine the ball's trajectory, and track where it lands.
Extrapolate that landing point back to field of play.

There is no possible way that P.J.'s pass could have been caught in the field of play. It was a pass thrown out of the endzone.
It may have not been thrown into the 8th row of seats, but it was not a ball that could be legally caught for a touchdown.

I should note this point: I'm actually happy that these 2 calls brought the Browns to a 4-2 record in 2023.
How many times since 1999, has CLE been the victim of bad officiating in circumstances just like this? 20-30 times?
How many ref calls added to CLE's seasonal loss count, when they were routinely racking up 4-12 seasons?


I swear, Browns fans are so snake-bitten by "Battered Dawg Syndrome," that they can't accept a gift from incompetent refs when the gift was dropped right into their laps.
Dawgs: Elves were just the recipients of the "Gift that kept on giving" to all the teams who have ever played us since The Return. This was the first time that the sketchy calls went against The Other Team.


Clem's bottom line: this is quite possibly the very first time since 99, that game-changing ref's calls on the field actually helped a CLE team.

Browns (for once) got help from the refs. The PI call should have been a holding call, but I'm happy to take the results of the play sequence.



.02,
Clem

Some folks IMO have lost the ability to cheer for their team.

Their perception is they have been abused by losing. It is better to just be miserable. Then they feel better by complaining.

Wins are not even accepted. They turned into "we were lucky." Everybody has done us wrong.

Find something to wallow in. Pick a flavor. Play calling. It is all KS fault. Berry can't draft. The worst trade in history. Haslam doesn't want to win. We have a bad culture. We will never win as long as (fill in the blank). We need to get rid of "blank." So in so is a bust. Kick the can. We are in cap hell.

There are folks who would rather be right about something than have the team win the damn game.

We lived through 0-16. I still watched hoping to win a game. Hoping that we would dig out the hole. We have.

At least when we play a game now. We have a decent shot at winning the game.

I love that we won the last two games. I don't care how. The scoreboard says we won. There have been way worse calls. We were good enough to be in the position to win.

All I ever want is to win the game the day we play.

As Clem and myself have both said and is obvious to anyone who has paid attention. These bad calls have gone against the Browns so many times it been heartbreaking. For once a couple of bad calls went in the Brown's favor. Can you explain how in any way that means "Some folks IMO have lost the ability to cheer for their team."?

"There have been way worse calls." Which has nothing to do with the fact these were bad calls. That doesn't mean people aren't happy about the win. It doesn't mean that people aren't cheering for the team. It simply means that a couple of bad calls finally went the Browns way for a change. There are bad calls in a lot of games. They are a part of the game. Sometimes they impact the outcome of a game like they did in this game. Being honest about it doesn't infer some lack of support for the team. That's ridiculous.

Good call or bad call it is part of the game. I accept it.

I have read enough on this Board to believe there are those that no matter what would complain. "We should have lost that game. We were just lucky."

If we were to win every game 42-0 it would not be enough.

Sure they might want to win. However if we lose they cannot wait to bitch about whatever is the point that they wish to drive.

I don't think it is specific to the Browns. I have seen clips of fans from the Steelers just go off about firing this guy or that guy. It doesn't matter if they won the game.

Myself I find that kind of attitude strange. Maybe it is just me. I have known people that after I watched one game with; I would never watch another game with them. If something negative happened in the game. They would say "we going to lose this game."

Being critical is one thing. Being forever negative is another.