DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum DPJ Traded

So are you saying any of them are good enough at this point in time to replicate what DPJ did last year, this year? I mean it seems Brissett had no problem making DPJ legit. We have had terrible QB play this year. It certainly would make sense to be prepared to replace DPJ after this season once yo have developed someone like Tillman. But if you're actually in win now mode, you don't "choose" to lose talent you don't have a replacement for if you actually believe you can make a playoff run. And nobody no other WR on the roster other than Cooper had anything close to the production DPJ had last season. So yeah, I guess if you want to look ahead for next year rather than concentrate on having the best odds of winning this year, shipping DPJ off makes sense. Because if watson comes back to form, DPJ would have been a valuable weapon for him.

I think the point is that pretty much any WR on the roster can provide what DPJ has provided THIS YEAR.

Last year is gone and doesn't matter.

It appears the poor QB play to this point this year that's very likely contributing to that doesn't matter either.

well, that's kinda self-answering, isn't it?

If the QB play is that bad, does it matter who ANY of our WR's are?



that's all that matters. If he isn't going to be retained, and whatever he can do THIS YEAR isn't anything that any other WR can do, then his presence is redundant and you should get whatever you can for him while you can.
What he did or didn't do in the past is meaningless because that situation doesn't exist Now.

Our passing offense is built around:
1. Cooper being the primary/#1 target receiver
2. RBs getting touches through screen passes and dumpoff/outlet throws
3. Moore getting his touches in various ways
4. Njoku getting his touches in various ways

DPJ was barely number 5 on the roster...and even then that is debatable b/c i will say this is reaching, but Goodwin gets 1-2 designed deep passes and possibly a 1 reverse every other game.

I'm asking: Was there even a play designed strictly for DPJ this year? I am sure some has to do with the QB, but in reality he was just being phased out of the offense. They have two young receivers (Tillman/Bell) who could be just as productive THIS year. Getting a draft pick for DPJ before he walks is forward thinking and it's an intelligent way to do business.

There's lots of logic there ... but the flip side of that, and looking only at this year - I've seen DPJ do more (no matter if that's a lot, a little or in between) than Moore and Bell and Goodwin and Tillman in a Browns Uni and stay healthy while doing it. That's got to count for something in my book . . . You didn't mention the punt returning but others have. DPJ was a lousy punt returner ... because we put him as a PR and he was bad at it doesn't mean others are better as a WR option and I don't see that as just cause to jetison him.

We've (in all probability) lost a game(s) this season with an eye to the future at the QB position - let's hope we don't get bitten on the ass again over this move.... I doubt it, but never say never. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if DPJ is a servicable WR3/4 in the NFL somewhere - and I expect him to be better than Bell and Goodwin for the rest of their careers this point on.

Moore already replaced DPJ as our WR2, which appears to have made Donovan expendable. Moore has almost 3 times the production as DPJ so far this season (on fewer snaps, until this week.) Despite the (alleged) "plan" to play more 11 personnel, it seems Stefanski still loves his TEs and heavy sets. Even when they went "11," they were using DPJ as a defacto TE a decent bit. I think someone came to the conclusion we need better blocking up front to effectively use sets with more receivers. I wonder if we see Watson (Leroy) as a blocking TE soon.

Bell is a serious draft bust.. no TDs In his career. He can't outrun
Coverage. He does nothing that makes you go wow!!!
Moore is looking like more hype than anything
Goodwin is on his last team.
In any event the Browns WR room was overhyped
Coming into the 2023 season.
2024 the Browns really need to find WRs that are difference
Makers.
DPJ will find a role In this league as a 4th or 5th WR depth piece

He's in Detroit and they have a QB. Time will tell I suppose.

Thanks for keeping me alive here!

Signed: DPJ

J/C

Teams have traded good players away for years

Pittsburgh always knew when to do that, They would trade away a player and have the next player step up

Washington traded 2019 first founder Montez Sweat to Chigao for a 2024 2nd round pick

They also traded thier 2020 first round pick Chase Young to San Fransisco in exchange for a 2024 compensatory third round

And the Commanders won against the Patroits

The Browns traded their 2020 sixth round pick in DPJ to Detroit for Detroits 2025 sixth round pick

The Browns also won

It's buisness, it's how it works it's what NFL teams do

The Browns got a sixth for a sixth

Commanders got a second for a first and a third for a first

Eight games left, hopefully the QB and WR's play will get better as the season goes

Time will tell

I'm already over them shipping out DPJ (Sunday's game certainly helped). I also forgot that he was UFA this off-season.

I just hate the "we're trading this guy so that the draft pick can play". It makes no sense, especially with the "we're all about competition" mantra Stefanski likes to go back to.

In 2018, we traded Carlos Hyde so a young man named Nick Chubb could play.

It happens.

I get it. When you add in the contract situation, and his lack of production, be it his problem or the fact we weren't playing him, it made things a pretty simple decision for Berry.


It made zero sense to not use him and just let him walk at seasons end.

So other than Cooper, where's the Nick Chubb of WR's on the Browns right now? Usually when one attempts to use an analogy it's expected there will be similarities in the comparison.

I don't think it was even a "we're trading him so the draft pick can play" move at all, but a "we've realized that he isn't in the 2024 Plans, and that draft pick affords us the luxury of minimal drop-off if we trade him now to get something".
Because of when the trade deadline is, you have to make these kinds of decisions and moves now, or you're stuck accepting that you're getting nothing for the player.

So, the real trade-off here is that the future 6th was more valuable that expected loss in contribution over the second half of the season; and that is probably because the draft pick is expected to contribute at least close to the same level.
Same Contribution and No Compensation, or same Contribution and a 6th in Compensation.

Do you have a crystal ball?

Neither did anyone else before Chubb became a superstar.

Hard to compare before the future comes to pass.

Many of you have complained about us not having a viable backup QB on the roster for when Watson went down and the DPJ situation is the same thing only to a lesser degree. We could have kept DPJ and still played Tillman, what happens now if Tillman stinks it up or gets hurt? We would than be hurting for depth at WR and the trade deadline has passed so it would have to be a waiver wire pickup or a PS addition and do you think we would get the same production from them that DPJ could give us? We are in win now mode and you keep any player that is productive. How many 6th round picks pan out?, DPJ has been better than most so we just weakened our team this year to get player next year whose odds are that he won't even make the team.

The difference there is that Chubb had shown fashes before the trade was made and also the fact that we had a losing record at the time and not win now mode like we currently are.

So you can't think of a single WR other than Cooper who has the skill set to be a comparison to the Chubb situation. In the case of Chubb, in case your memory fails you, most everyone thought Chubb was a better solution. He had shined since he first came into camp. People were mystified as to why he wasn't starting. It got so bad that many fans as well as those in the media believed the sole reason the FO traded away Carlos Hyde to Jacksonville is because it would force Kitchens to start Chubb. Nothing today comes close to resembling that same situation in regards to a stud being forced on the sideline by DPJ.

Comparisons and analogies are fine when they are somehow comparable.

It wasn't Fast Freddie, it was Clueless Hue...

Chubb had 7 carries.
Tillman has 4 targets.

Hyde sucked.
DPJ sucked.

Don't see much difference before we see it play out, not outside of trying to sell opinion as fact.

At the time of the Hyde trade Chubb had 16 carries for 173 yards and 2 tds, when DPJ was traded Tillman had 1 catch for 5yds and was inactive for 3 games.

The opinion that everyone could see that Chubb was an obvious upgrade to Hyde but no such a situation exists now? That's not an opinion.

Now you're beginning to allow facts to get in the way. You know that's frowned upon around here.

I'm sure DPJ will be a superstar in Detroit, and I have no idea how we'll replace the 12 yards per game and fair catches.

Carry on.

This is such a weird argument.

Berry had two choices...1. Trade him now and get something for him. 2. Let him play out the season and walk after.

Neither choice was wrong. Unless you believe trading DPJ will prevent the Browns from winning the Super Bowl. I would rather wait and have this argument after Tillman drops a go ahead TD that knock the Browns out of the playoffs. Then argue to your hearts content that DPJ would have caught it.

Otherwise it's a pretty big non issue.

What Would Sashi Do?

#WWSD

He'd drop the "People's Fax Machine" on your non-analytical ...behind.

Sashi would have also traded DJP's mom for a 2055 7th round pick.

The funny thing about this whole DPJ trade is the thought process that either we trade him and get something, or we let him walk at the season's end and get nothing. Here's the funny part - trading DPJ got the Browns absolutely nothing for next year - exactly the same result if they hung on and let him walk for nothing. The payoff for trading DPJ (if there's a payoff at all) wouldn't occur until 2025.

If you look at the Browns receiving compared to previous seasons, I'm not so sure that DPJ's production is the main issue.
(includes all receptions - RB, TE, and WR)

2020: 315 receptions (19.69 per gm) - rank 29th, 3,701 yards (231.31 per gm) - rank 27th, 11.8 yds/rec - rank 7th, 27 TD's (1.69 per gm) - rank 16th
2021: 320 receptions (18.82 per gm) - rank 30th, 3,619 yards (212.18 per gm) - rank 26th, 11.3 yds/rec - rank 10th, TD's 21 (1.24 per gm) - rank 24th
2022: 335 receptions (19.71 per gm) - rank 27th, 3,710 yards (218.24 per gm) - rank 23rd, 11.1 yds/rec - rank 15th, TD's 19 (1.12 per gm) - rank 20th
2023: 153 receptions (17.00 per gm) - rank 31st, 1,650 yards (183.33 per gm) - rank 28th, 10.8 yds/rec - rank 14th, TD's 7 (.78 per gm) - rank 29th

It's clear that the passing game as a whole has been dismal this season when compared to the previous 3 seasons and those were considered unacceptable to be a Super Bowl contender. The Browns have some difficult games on the horizon. Hopefully with Watson back and the moving on from DPJ, we might start seeing the elite passing results touted by the Browns.

The problem with your logic comes because they can potentially use the future pick to trade up in this upcoming draft. Just because the compensation is scheduled for 2025 doesn't mean it stays with us there.

DPJ's production wasn't the main problem with our passing game. Obviously, there were a lot of issues headlined by subpar QB play. Yet, DPJ wasn't/isn't in the plans any longer. They decided trading him away was how he could best provide future value to the team. He was averaging 1.1 catches a game at 5.4 yards per target and a 38.9% success rate on the season. With that sort of production, he wasn't likely to get a contract as a UFA that would net a compensatory pick.