He's a Detroit guy, too. Good luck, DPJ!



Cedric Tillman SZN

"We've traded WR Donovan Peoples-Jones to the Detroit Lions in exchange for a 6th round pick in 2025"

It's better than nothing, I supposed.

DPJ wasn’t in our long term plans after we drafted Tillman. This trade makes it possible to get Tillman on the field more.

Getting a guy on the field by shipping off the guy in front of him (who only got a 6th in return) doesn't inspire a ton of confidence.

Lions are buyers because they know they're making a run this year.

Don't get me wrong, I really liked the Tillman pick in the draft. But there are several other WR's on this roster they could have sat or replaced with Tillman this season to find out what they had in Tillman rather than trading away DPJ just to find out. I'm not sure how I feel about the trade yet but I think that's a pretty bogus excuse.

I kinda hate this. DPJ is highly under-rated and a great blocker.

Great landing spot for DPJ. Good for him.

It is virtually nothing. I don't believe we got equitable value in return. However, this pick may be part of a package for a QB....

He was under-utilized here. He often came up with a clutch reception for us.....

He'll be more productive in Detroit with Goff at QB. Good for DPJ but I hate to see him go. Couldn't we have worked Tillman in and still kept DPJ? And only a 6th rounder? Not the best deal we ever made.

Washinton refuses to trade Brissett. so he's off the table.

Isn't that what practice is for?


This is similar to shipping Carlos Hyde because Chubb wasn't getting carries because Hue was an idiot. Granted, DPJ ain't no Chubb, but I do believe he's horribly underrated and lately has been victim of extremely bad QB'ing. When he had someone throwing good balls, he was no better than the third receiving option behind Cooper and Njoku (and now Moore).

I think Moore is more of a bust than DPJ honestly, but you could see that one coming a mile away. Teams like the Jets aren't trading second round picks if they are good.

Granted QB has been an issue, but still...Moore has been a total waste thus far. Maybe better QB play turns that around, but he's such a small target that plays like an outside receiver instead of a slot. Just not sure that combo is going to get you much in the NFL.

Of course they could have. There are several other WR's that were lower on the depth chart they could have replaced on game days with Tillman before claiming they needed to trade DPJ to "find out" what they have in Tillman. Common sense dictates yo find out what you have in Tillman before you trade DPJ. Not the other way around. The only one I've heard make that claim was someone on Twitter. As far as I know the team said nothing of the sort.

My understanding is that Washington isn't refusing to trade Brissett. They're just not willing to do it at a bottom basement price and teams aren't willing to pony up a second day pick for him.

DPJ will be missed from a blocking standpoint ... he gave us some good memories honestly

This trade makes absolutely no sense to me.

DPJ wasn't going to be re-signed. They have a guy they like behind him. They got a pick for him.

Not much more to it.

The board should be excited! This opens up a possible chance for Preseason pro bowler Austin Watkins to be elevated, lol.

Thanks. I guess that clears that up...Still give them an F for bringing us ZILCH at the tradeline.

Agreed Ytown. I think we got a little bit of a hint of that too when Moore returned a punt or two last game.

DPJ is very replaceable. The Browns were not about to
Pay top dollar for a dime a dozen WR.
All these excuses for DPJ has followed him from Michigan
And until now
" he hasn't had good QB play blah blah blah "
Let's be real DPJ never had a game over 100 yds or even a multi
Touchdown game. He is a average WR who occasionally like
Once a year made a nice play for the highlights
Tillman may turn out to be 10x better than DPJ
He played against upper tier NFL caliber CBs at UT
And the film doesn't lie
DPJ and his 5 career TDs won't be missed

My concern is that Tillman must not be doing much at practice to keep being inactive. If he were good and balling, they'd find a way to get him on the field. I don't think that's the case.

I had/have high hopes for him, but they are fading.

He probably doesn't have anybody decent to throw it to him!

Oh man.. who is going to fair catch our punts now?

JC...

DPJ Had a 114 yard game, and also a two TD game against the Cardinals. Sad to see him go, He has had a diminished role (along with most) because of the piss poor play of Walker, Watson, and DTR. Hoping he does well for the Lions. Everyone is preaching now we'll finally see Tillman, however I won't be surprised if its Bell playing ahead...If he doesn't show well, then Tillman will get chances later...especially if we collapse.

My thoughts exactly. If they think he was good enough to be DPJ's replacement, why was he inactive every week? He couldn't beat out David Bell?

Has anyone considered DPJ has peaked as a
WR. And that Tillman much more upside?
Darn if a WR catches more than 45 passes in
A year he is a legend around here
DPJ is a middle of the road WR. He was never a threat
In the Red Zone and for every decent game he had
He would disappear for 4.

We got a low level pick for him as apposed to letting him walk after the season. I’d have kept him if we’re serious about making a run this year. Otherwise, he’s gone anyway come spring.

j/c

I will say we had a pretty nice productive 3-4 years out of a last round pick ... DPJ is considered a huge success by draft standards. Props to him

I know this doesn’t make me much of a browns fan but I’ve found myself quasi-rooting for teams with ex browns players on them. The background assumption of course is that their futures are more likely to blossom elsewhere, and maybe escaping the browns will give them some fire. I’ve been kinda rooting for Detroit this year anyway due to similar underdog status and now, hoping DPJ and the lions can really help each other out. I know it’s partly because of my nausea with the team surrounding the Watson decision and inevitable dumpster fire it’s still blooming into but also just getting worn down by unforced errors and sheer bad luck of this organization. /rant

That “some guy on the internet is a Browns writer who has broken many stories. He is very credible.

The reason I came to the same conclusion is because DPJ and Tillman are the same player with Tillman being more productive in college. DPJ to me has outperformed his draft status and I don’t think we would’ve paid him after the season even if we didn’t draft his replacement.

Also, what receiver would you sit to get Tillman the reps he needs? Goodwin has a specific role that no one else does. Bell is a slot receiver, Tillman is an outside player. Moore hasn’t done a lot imo but he has been open a ton. We ain’t taking any snaps from Cooper.

I would not be shocked if he becomes a very good wr in Detroit

I think he already is

I agree. Great pickup for Detroit.

plus, his run blocking is superb. That will fit their offense

Decent player, especially for a 6th round pick. Good blocker.

Despite all of his physical attributes, he did not seem to get much separation.

This trade doesn't mean much either way.

DPJ had some nice moments, but he is a dime a dozen receiver. That is why we got a 2025 6th rounder. This was the last year of his contract. I don't think many in here actually felt he was going to be signed to another contract.

Trade him and get something. We got something. Time to move on.

Good Luck DPJ. You came to Cleveland, worked your ass off every day, never complained, did everything the Browns ask of you, never complained, and always had a great attitude. You were a great team mate, and even better person. Good luck buddy.

Not a big deal really. But I do have a question, how many times was he targeted this year?

not many ... he only had like a dozen catches or something. We had phased him out (of course, having Walker at QB has affected everything too)

So your belief is that you replace a starting WR with a guy who hasn't even been active on game day? Who hasn't even been able to see the field for weeks now? Well alrighty then.


According to you they wouldn't. Instead they would trade away a starting WR to do it. Trade away a starter for a kid that they won't even activate on game day. But to your credit, it does sort of sound like something this FO might do.

DPJ wasn't playing very well this season. He wasn't in the plans going forward. To me, it makes sense to get guys who are supposed to be the future more reps.

Trade feels kind of win-win. DPJ gets to "go home" to an apparent contender. We get some draft capital, and get more reps for young guys. It would have been nice if we'd gotten more, but unfortunately this season's production was more or less non-existent.

I wish him the best, unless he's playing the Browns. He seemed like a good dude.

PSA: Tillman has been active in 4 games, inactive in 3.

He has been targeted 3 times this year w/ one reception.

Carry on.

You are right. We probably weren't going to keep him after this year, so anything you can get for him is a plus. I get it.

It's just that there are 2 things about this that grind my gears.

1. He improved each year, blocked well, and caught tough catches. I don't like booting WRs that do that.
2. The whole "we're shipping a guy out so that the guy that couldn't work his way onto the field can get on the field" is stupid.

I think point #2 should be taken with a grain of salt. Nobody from the Browns coaching staff or FO has made that statement. If they do it would certainly be stupid.

1. He improved each year up to this year. This year he regressed. While QB play is a factor, I don't think that's all of it. DPJ has been near the bottom of the league in creating separation this year despite playing a majority of snaps, I believe, though I need to verify that still. Just saw a tweet earlier from a guy that's usually reliable with stat-related stuff. I also think his effort has been inconsistent this year, though that's a subjective take.

2. I'm hoping Tillman and DTR have been getting lots of reps together all season, and they want them to try to carry that chemistry onto the field and they think they're both ready for real now. Probably Copium, but it would be nice.

PSA #2

Tillman has been in on 45 snaps this year. 10 less than Bell and 31 less than Goodman, the two right above him. All snaps came in the first 4 weeks of the season and hasn't played since the bye. Edit to add: Because he is/was dealing with an injury.


Week One- 15% of offensive snaps
Week Two- 10%
Week Three- 15%
Week Four- 20%


https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/browns-cedric-tillman-back-from-hip-injury/

I forget Bell even exists most of the time ... he's as nondescript as it gets

Should be clear why I even asked. But I just thought if you don't throw it to him, it's gotta be hard to say he's not living up to expectations.

I honestly beleive you can say that about any of the WR's on this Browns team

wonder why the run game was working better than the pass game

Why is it that no matter how we address the WR position, once we get into the season, we feel like we don't have any WR's?

Basically, we have Cooper, and then Moore gets a bunch of touches, usually behind the LoS. It feels like the rest never show up.

Prp... I'd argue it's the Browns QBs that are 'no shows'.

Moore only has (1) game where he has over 50+ yards receiving and has not eclipsed 60+ yards on the season. That's egregious.

The Browns QBs have combined for an appalling five TD passes on the season and Cooper is the only WR to catch a TD pass.

Will Levis has played one game as a rookie and threw four TD passes.

The Browns QB play has been utterly atrocious.

I understand your point. If on the other hand he wasn't getting open, the QB isn't going to throw it his way. It's one of those things we aren't going to see, but I would assume the coaches see those things. It might explain why he wasn't seeing the field very much.

My take would be that we have such poor and/or inconsistent QB play that our offense bogs down. For instance, Walker locks onto Cooper when we need plays .. and unless we kinda force the ball to Moore or Njoku via screen game/quick stuff, he disregards them

That could certainly explain why he lacked targets and time on the field. I mean, if he's not getting open, why have him here. We'll be able to see that a little in Detroit.

At this point, we don't even have a QB able to get him and other receivers the ball. So how can we tell? Almost a catch-22! (no pun intended)

Jimmy G just got benched. Maybe we can get him for a 3rd?

I believe that may not be accurate but there's no way for me to know for sure. When you have a backup QB who doesn't seem to go through his progressions, is it the WR's that aren't showing up or the QB never looking at them when they do show up? I haven't done the film study because I don't have the resources to do so. I have however seen it posted many times that fans have seen a lot of WR's open and Walker simply didn't look their way. From my observation Walker tends to lock onto Cooper for anything medium to long and Moore more as an outlet. Then he also leans on Njoku sometimes. So I'm not sure if it's a question of those other WR's or the fact Walker simply lacks the ability to spread the ball around.

Oh, look, the alphabet boys slumming down there together... DPJ and OBJ.

I guess if you call 6-2 slumming.

Aiyuk is severely underrated IMO ... he's looked really good

I didn't know the team's record was part of the analysis there -- guess you learn something new everyday.

So was your comment due to slums in Detroit? I would say playing for a team with a 6-2 record that is leading their division by two games would be a better situation for a player, not a worse one. And I'm pretty sure both of them are in a tax bracket where they aren't forced into "slumming it". So what did you mean exactly?

"Slumming it" meaning they are both near the bottom of the graph.

It. is. not. that. hard.


And in case you forgot...

I hope every WR and RB wants to score a TD. I mean we could use more of those. That seems to be a little shallow. It was then and it is now. And what does that have to do with DPJ?

I'm assuming you also struggled with the bouncing-ball-singalongs on the old-school cartoons?

There's nothing to struggle with here. At this point you're just making excuses and deflecting.

Mmmm hmmmm. Still with the deflection shtick I see.

What exactly am I deflecting? I merely compared the two and you pooped your pants.

Tell us, since OBJ clearly sucks this year, what do you want the conversation to be about?

So you lumped DPJ in with OBJ because he doesn't have a legitimate QB to throw him the ball? I certainly understand that OBJ comment. People still have a hard on for him. They tend to focus on minor things like you pointed to when it comes to certain players while making excuses for players with much bigger issues. Yeah, I get that. But DPJ was a sixth round draft pick who did nothing but work his ass of for this team and worked his way up to being at least a mid level WR. It seems your comparison simply doesn't make any sense. Pointing that out isn't pooping my pants. Once again rather than make any sense you try and make that my fault.

Fans thinking like you is why the browns never get right. OBJ was the second worst thing to happen to the browns in the last ten years. First is the DW trade. And that ten years included Hue and Johnny Fn football…

Then post a "worked his ass off" chart and we'll change the argument to that.

OBJ's "minor things" (besides the graph posted that shows him near the bottom from an efficiency perspective):

14 catches 162yds 0TD... that projects out to 33/385/0

Maybe daddy needs to make a new video?

So no answer for why you tied DPJ to him. Just as I expected.

I stated that DPJ worked his ass off. Not OBJ. Reading is fundamental.

So are you blaming OBJ for the terrible deal the FO made in order to get him?

Where did I say you attributed that to OBJ??? "reading is fundamental"

I "tied" the two together because they are both at the crappy end of the chart. JUST LOOK at it, OBJ's name is right above DPJ's.

Can you see it?? Just look and you'll have all your answers.

Hints -- it has nothing to do with:

Either team's record
TDs
Poverty in Detroit
DJP's work ethic
Your hard on for OBJ
DJP's draft slot
King Dorsey's trade for OBJ

One has a QB that is good the other has a QB that throws for 50%. But let's not let facts get in the way of anything.

I'm done -- have a nice day!!

No, I blame him and his daddy for turning the rabid angry fanbase against Baker for no damn reason. OBJ is a diva has-been and he was washed up when he got here.

Repeat after me ...

Baker is not good.

Baker is not good.

Baker is not good.

The fans would have turned on him at some point anyway.

No wonder Diam always said stats are for losers. You can manipulate them to tell any story you want them to when you leave out the important facts that give them context. You just gave a prime example of that.

j/c:

The length someone needs go to (even after their original point was shown to be incorrect/misguided) and the stupidity in their continued arguing, goalpost moving they are willing to expose just to satisfy the need to have an online argument with someone continues to amaze me.....even after all these years on Dawgtalkers.

It's in every thread covering every topic. Football, non-football, politics, surveys.

I personally find it entertaining. He's here for our entertainment.

There's no need for you to be so self deprecating.

"Are you not entertained?!" from Gladiator comes to mind.

A few of you are very entertaining.

And we have now devolved to the "I know you are, but what am I" stage of the thread.

And there you go. I was just waiting for it. Typical, quite typical. Is that all you got?

Hahaha. It's was inevitable.

Yeah!! Is that all you got, Rish?!

And the gangs all here! How many times do you have to fail at this to know that your attacks are futile? What is the definition of insanity again? Oh yeah.... "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.". Yet here you all are once again riding on the crazy train.

I'm glad other people see it.

And you came in to clean up the rear again.

I'd take him over what we have (other than a healthy Watson that is)

To me it would depend on his contract status. I wouldn't want to give up a 3rd for a half season rental. If he is signed for 2-3 years, how much becomes the question. You want a decent back-up, but you don't want one making starter type money.

Just looked briefly, he signed a 67 mil deal. His salary the next 2 years is around 11 mil a year. That is doable. However, there are roster bonuses for 11 mil each year. Seems pretty pricy for a back-up, but starter salaries have jumped big time the last few years so maybe the back ups will rise as well, but from what I see most teams are looking for guys on rookie deal to back-up.

That's all I'd want him for a backup with the right deal of course. Remember about 6 or 7 years ago, maybe longer, when we offered New England a couple of 1st round picks and a 2nd if I recall correctly. BB didn't want to send him here.

After so many decades I'm done trying to figure out the seemingly boneheaded moves our FO makes.

If they win games, I'm good, if you lose, they're bad. If we make the playoffs this year, I'll say everything we did was good lol

I think your recall is fuzzy. I don't think we ever offered a couple of 1st rounders and a 2nd unless you are talking about fans talking on a message board. I assumed when you said 'we", you were talking about the Browns FO.

A WR's ability to create separation isn't dependent on QB play.

#notthatfactsmatter

DPJ for a 6th in twenty> twenty five.
Well, the pick, a future pick, can in no way help you win a championship this year or next year.
so, mathematically, it's a terrible trade.

pretty simple and straightforward too.

a WR that doesn't get open can't do much to help you win a championship, either, so even if his replacement doesn't do anything at all, we come out ahead because of that future 2025 pick.

Whomever is stepping up in his place needs to get 1.125 receptions and 12.1 yards per game to match his output while not being useless as a blocker. That's not a very high bar to meet.

I think it is nonsense to say DPJ can't get open. The reason he was dealt is this. They drafted Cedric Tillman and feel he has more physical tools than DPS. Taller, stronger, better red zone target etc... DPJ was going to be a free agent after the season, and they already made the decision they were not going to resign him. So, they traded him for a 6th, bring up the rookie they feel is an upgrade, and see what they can get player, or piece to a trade package with the 6th round pick. That simple.

Cedric Tillman did stand out in the preseason and after 8 weeks they must feel it is time to get him involved. DPJ is a good WR. He will never be #1 type receiver. He is someone that can help a team but not a put that team over the top type player. I think we have seen DPJ's ceiling and must feel Tillman has a higher ceiling with the attributes he brings to the table that DPJ does not.

A QB going through his progressions and targeting a WR is.

DPJ literally has a separation grade below zero on the graph I posted earlier. I'm not entirely sure how that is possible, but it would seem to lend some credence to the idea that DPJ hasn't been getting open this year.

He caught 61 passes for 839 yards last season. Now that the Browns QB's have stunk it up he forgot how to be a WR. Haven't you been paying attention?

Exactly, it's much easier for a QB to go through his progressions and target a receiver if his receivers are creating separation and getting open.

Yeah, the argument that DPJ forgot how to be a productive WR since last season makes more sense than poor QB play. It's hilarious how some people can make such an argument.

...have you watched DPJ on the all-22 this season?

So he forgot how to be a productive WR during the off season. Case closed I suppose. For some reason I have a feeling Detroit has better resources to base such decisions on. They concluded that he didn't forget how to be a WR. So you just keep watching all-22.

Pit, I'd be willing to wager that DPJ has a very productive rest of the season with Detroit. I'd trade any QB we've had in the last 33 years for Jared Goff.

So, let me get this straight. The Browns currently have the lowest rated NFL QB playing due to their 230M elite QB injury whose own current performance is sporting a 41.8 QBR. The Browns have the lowest PFF Graded starting LT in the NFL and nearly the lowest rated OT overall. The OL has underperformed. RB has regressed, rightfully so, due to Chubb's injury but is what the Browns currently have at RB the best they can do? LB appears to be an issue since the Browns have allowed over 100 yds rushing to their last 4 opponents. A revamped WR group that has totaled (1) one offensive TD this season through 7 games. A FO group that has 35.3M in available cap space after having the highest overall actual spend over the last 3-years of 180M plus over the cap.

Knowing all of this, the big moves from the Browns was to take a 6th round draft pick starting WR and trade him to the Detroit Lions for a future 2025 6th round draft pick. DPJ had 839 yds receiving last year with 3 TD's yet only targeted 18 times in 7 games in 2023. Supposedly, this will open up an opportunity for 3rd round rookie WR Tillman who has been inactive the last 2 games due to not being able to unseat any of the other Browns active receivers playing ahead of him. This move with the scuffling of 3 PS members were the Browns big moves at the trade deadline for a team that is supposedly "all in" for 2023.

The trade deadline has passed with the Browns basically having no upgrades anywhere for a 4-3 team that has had 50% of their wins come from a missed chip shot FG by an opponent and two, verified by the NFL, wrongly called penalties in another game that should have been losses. JMHO, but if I was the owner, I'd be pissed that 180M plus has been spent over the cap the last 3-years and this is the best my FO and HC can do for my huge overspend.

You may want to add to your agenda driven rant that the Browns have faced so far, the 3rd toughest schedule in the NFL in win %. Only the Patriots and Panthers have faced teams with a higher win %. Now that % will go down after this Sunday with the 1-7 Cardinals. Just thought you may want to tell the whole story and not just what fits your narrative!!!

You make some very good points. So far this season Cooper who is without question is the Browns #1 WR has a grand total of 30 catches and 1 td. That's based on a grand total of 58 targets all season. According to the logic I've been reading, he certainly must not be #1 WR material.

I mentioned this earlier. I think DPJ has lost a step. That is why this year matters and last years doesn't.

He is a year older. Maybe a few lbs heavier. That matters for a guy who wasn't exactly fast to begin with.

Seriously? He's 24 years old. How many 24 year olds do you know that have "lost a step"? If he were in his 30's that would make sense. But at 24 years old that's quite a reach.

If he bulked/added weight without working on his explosiveness, it'll happen. If he didn't put in the work he should have in the offseason, it could happen.
Peak performance isn't linear year to year.

It could also be that defenses are just paying more attention to him this year while he's also getting fewer looks because he's one spot lower on the totem pole this year and hadn't done anything to move himself up.
If the line isn't blocking as well as it has in the past - and it isn't - how many looks is the third read going to get?

Is he getting jammed at the line a lot this year and not getting free releases?

There could be a multitude of reasons why this year is different than last, but it is definitely different. Even accounting for any egregious margin of error, that separation graphic is pretty damning. He's nearly dead freaking last among WR's in the league this year.
The Why doesn't matter since he's not here anymore, it's just simply a case of it was what it was. Add in that he wasn't likely to get a new contract, and it just makes sense to get whatever we can for a very easily replaced WR.
He was a fan favorite, but he really wasn't all that.

A WR needs to make catches in the NFL. Blame whatever, blame whomever but he’s not been a difference-maker. Good luck DPJ

Maybe a salary cap issue here. IDK. Whatever.

Probably somewhat.

The team has to decide if they want to go to a higher dollar second contract v going with a rookie contract. In the end I don't think DPJ had done enough to warrant a 2nd contract.

It's not that he was bad or anything like that. It just came down to deciding if you wanted to pay more to keep him. I am sure that had he had another year on the contract, he would probably still be here for another year.

I think it's a combination of that and a QB who lacks the ability to go through his progressions quickly. But yes there are a multitude of possibilities.


For what he was supposed to be, a second WR he was alright. He wasn't Amari Cooper by any means, but I'd say his numbers were pretty good for what he was supposed to be. The only change I can put my finger on is the change at the QB position.

That sounds like how a team in rebuild mode thinks. Not one in the win now mode.

True, lamp. But it's difficult to compile numbers when the ball is seldom thrown your way....

Teams that stay good try to balance both.

I do think there may be something to the OL angle. I wonder if there are time to catch stats somewhere. Some routes would seem to be "designed" to have separation later in the play. If the pass protection isn't holding up long enough to reach that point in the timing of the play, guys that specialize in slower developing routes are going to have a tough go.

We also seemed to be asking DPJ to act as a pseudo-TE a decent bit last week. (Cooper had some snaps of this when DPJ came off the field, too.) I'm still processing what they were trying to do with these alignments and how I feel about them.

DPJ has had separation issues since he got
Into the league . There is a reason why
He was a 6th RD pick out of Michigan.
He was merely ok in college .
And in the NFL he is merely ok.
There is nothing in his skill set that can't be replaced
He is the kind of WR that has to be schemed to
Get open.

I understand what you're saying about balance. Yet at the same time it's hard to contrive a scenario where you let your, arguably second WR on the depth chart go in a year you are trying to compete in. I mean he was after all the staring WR on the opposite side of Cooper. If they had someone better on the roster to fill that role one would think they would have had him playing there. Maybe they know something we don't. At least I hope that's so. But if they do it appears Detroit does not.

Yeah, those 61 receptions and 839 yards receiving last year were just a fluke, right? I mean those guys are a dime a dozen. Am I right?

Good receivers get open and make plays. DPJ's were too few and far between, even considering the poor qb play. Cooper, and to a lesser extent Moore are getting their touches. If we just need a 3rd option once in a while, we didn't need an relatively expensive contract to do that. We had to take what we could get for him.

He was still on a sixth round rookie contract.

I think it was a combination of a few things that were said (I.e. QBs, OL, separation, getting Tillman involved, etc), however I also think it was forward thinking of getting something for someone who was maybe the 5th option in the offense this year

Exactly, You don't trade decent experienced players when you have a talented team that can contend for the playoffs and possibly the Super-Bowl.

DPJ waa 33rd in recieving yards last year.
This is a passing league. QBs and WRs are the 2 of
The most coveted positions on offense.
If this was 1979 I'd be impressed with DPJs numbers
But a 61 800 yd 3 TD stat line isn't alot
To get excited about. And through 7 games
This year he wasn't exactly dominating CBers.
If the Browns saw any promise in him he would
Still be a Brown.

Which was set to expire at the end of 2023 making him an unrestricted free agent that we'd have to re-sign.

alot of hand wringing over a WR that never did anything and was possibly the worst PR we've ever had. We got back what we spent on a player they had no intention of re-signing while they still could. We won't miss him in the least.

The common sense approach is never very popular around here.

lead...DPJ= 8 catches in 5 starts for 97 yds in 2023

All this concern and worry is not warranted...lets see what Tillman can do.

DPJ did a good job for where he was drafted.

There was no way they were going to resign him. They got a pick.

Tillman came with expectations from many. He will now get a chance. He has solid pass catching skills and good size.

Time to see what he can do.

He wasn't helping us win now. He was a punt catcher. Not even a returner.

You will continue to rale on, but he was just a guy.

Teams are always in rebuild mode. There is constant turnover and teams move on from guys like DPJ every year.

Pit, the guy was a dime a dozen receiver. We can find replacements every year, if we already don't have a replacement. We weren't going to pay him the premium of a 2nd contract. We were offered a 2025 6th round pick and decided that was better than nothing.

I just assumed that approach wasn't an option on the board.

Let me tell you what Tillman can does best. He catches the contested balls. He's a more physical type WR that isn't that speedy. So what we will hear of he fails is that he didn't get enough separation and he's a dime a dozen. You know, like the same thing we're hearing about DPJ this year while the Browns have a crappy QB that can only compete 50% of his passes. So why would the story you hear on this board sound any different with Tillman? Tillman got to where he is by being a physical guy who wins the battle for the ball. He didn't get here by streaking across the field getting wide open. But we can see where that gets you around here.

So why pay a premium for the same thing? Tillman's on a rookie contract, DPJ expires this year and would have to be re-signed. We'd either have to do that or let him walk. Why not take what you can get?

Bbecause it took years of development for DPJ to ever get that far. How long do you think it will take Tillman? Why not take what you can get? That would be a great idea if you had panned for that and developed a WR ready to step in and do what he did last year. As far as i can tell it created a hole they have not made contingency plans to fill. And Tillman can be a really good WR. But so was DOJ last year. Until the QB position sucked. But you're gong to have to trust his physicality and not only toss the ball his way when he is wide open.

If someone were trying to make the argument that we suck at QB so it doesn't really matter if we let DPJ go I would entertain that idea.

Pitt, I am not understanding your side of the debate. Are you saying Berry should re-sign DPJ as WR2 or WR3? If Berry does re-sign, that means less money in the receiver pool to retain Cooper. That is fine if you believe in Moore, DPJ, Bell, and Tillman.

Personally, I think they re-sign Cooper. We see Bell and Tillman play through their rookie deal and become expendable after their time. Unless either of these two or another drafted receiver can match or outplay Cooper or Moore, this is what we see in the coming years.

I do like DPJ. I think he is a good receiver. I simply believe DPJ is expendable because of the numbers. I believe we will see this more in the coming years especially at the DT, Safety, running back, and offensive interior lineman positions.

I do believe Berry needs to be held accountable for drafting well in these positions.

DPJ shouldn't be judged solely on this, but our PR game seemed to have more success today.

6 PR for 92 yards.

Also, If I am not mistaken, a big called back on a stupid penalty.

I think there were 2 fairly good returns caled back.

There were. Adams our supposed special teams Ace, had one of them. Not the first time either.

If what we saw was not prioritizing winning, then I support it 100%.

My side of the debate is simply if your goal is to make the playoffs and possibly further, you don't jettison your second best WR because you've been having crappy QB play. As you can see across the league, such teams add talent at the trade deadline, not ship it off. To me it screams the "there is always next year" mentality that Browns fans now think is normal.

You think trading DPJ signals the team giving up on the season?

That's some crazy stuff.

It's an indication. When Brissett was the QB for most of last year DPJ was a very productive WR. He was the starting WR opposite Cooper both last season and this season. This season we've had very spotty QB play to this point and somehow that equates to being DPJ's fault? No, I don't believe that if you're in win now mode you do something like that.

I'm hoping we see some small signs from Tillman the last half of the year. We desperately need a WR opposite Cooper

I think DPJ is a good WR. He can still play. However, I don't believe he was in Berry's long-term plan, and he made the move to get something for DPJ. I don't really see why this move is all this controversial. If this team, make a run at the playoffs or more DPJ being on the team or not will not really be noticeable. He had dropped to #3 behind Elijah Moore and there are 2 higher draft picks in Tillman and Bell right behind him on the depth chart.

Meh, we need the OL to solidify, so that plays can develop as designed instead of going straight from first read to scramble drills.

Tillman being a player would be nice. I don't see receiver as a desperate need, though.

So are you saying any of them are good enough at this point in time to replicate what DPJ did last year, this year? I mean it seems Brissett had no problem making DPJ legit. We have had terrible QB play this year. It certainly would make sense to be prepared to replace DPJ after this season once yo have developed someone like Tillman. But if you're actually in win now mode, you don't "choose" to lose talent you don't have a replacement for if you actually believe you can make a playoff run. And nobody no other WR on the roster other than Cooper had anything close to the production DPJ had last season. So yeah, I guess if you want to look ahead for next year rather than concentrate on having the best odds of winning this year, shipping DPJ off makes sense. Because if watson comes back to form, DPJ would have been a valuable weapon for him.

I think the point is that pretty much any WR on the roster can provide what DPJ has provided THIS YEAR.

Last year is gone and doesn't matter.

It appears the poor QB play to this point this year that's very likely contributing to that doesn't matter either.

Pitt brings up a valid point...last season with Brissett starting 11 games, DPJ caught 61 passes for 839 yds and 3 TDs.

Bottom line, Browns management wanted see more of Tillman knowing they were they were not going to pay/retain DPJ.

I think Tillman caught one pass yesterday, so if we don't get better QB play, we won't see a lot of Tillman either.

well, that's kinda self-answering, isn't it?

If the QB play is that bad, does it matter who ANY of our WR's are?



that's all that matters. If he isn't going to be retained, and whatever he can do THIS YEAR isn't anything that any other WR can do, then his presence is redundant and you should get whatever you can for him while you can.
What he did or didn't do in the past is meaningless because that situation doesn't exist Now.

Our passing offense is built around:
1. Cooper being the primary/#1 target receiver
2. RBs getting touches through screen passes and dumpoff/outlet throws
3. Moore getting his touches in various ways
4. Njoku getting his touches in various ways

DPJ was barely number 5 on the roster...and even then that is debatable b/c i will say this is reaching, but Goodwin gets 1-2 designed deep passes and possibly a 1 reverse every other game.

I'm asking: Was there even a play designed strictly for DPJ this year? I am sure some has to do with the QB, but in reality he was just being phased out of the offense. They have two young receivers (Tillman/Bell) who could be just as productive THIS year. Getting a draft pick for DPJ before he walks is forward thinking and it's an intelligent way to do business.

There's lots of logic there ... but the flip side of that, and looking only at this year - I've seen DPJ do more (no matter if that's a lot, a little or in between) than Moore and Bell and Goodwin and Tillman in a Browns Uni and stay healthy while doing it. That's got to count for something in my book . . . You didn't mention the punt returning but others have. DPJ was a lousy punt returner ... because we put him as a PR and he was bad at it doesn't mean others are better as a WR option and I don't see that as just cause to jetison him.

We've (in all probability) lost a game(s) this season with an eye to the future at the QB position - let's hope we don't get bitten on the ass again over this move.... I doubt it, but never say never. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if DPJ is a servicable WR3/4 in the NFL somewhere - and I expect him to be better than Bell and Goodwin for the rest of their careers this point on.

Moore already replaced DPJ as our WR2, which appears to have made Donovan expendable. Moore has almost 3 times the production as DPJ so far this season (on fewer snaps, until this week.) Despite the (alleged) "plan" to play more 11 personnel, it seems Stefanski still loves his TEs and heavy sets. Even when they went "11," they were using DPJ as a defacto TE a decent bit. I think someone came to the conclusion we need better blocking up front to effectively use sets with more receivers. I wonder if we see Watson (Leroy) as a blocking TE soon.

Bell is a serious draft bust.. no TDs In his career. He can't outrun
Coverage. He does nothing that makes you go wow!!!
Moore is looking like more hype than anything
Goodwin is on his last team.
In any event the Browns WR room was overhyped
Coming into the 2023 season.
2024 the Browns really need to find WRs that are difference
Makers.
DPJ will find a role In this league as a 4th or 5th WR depth piece

He's in Detroit and they have a QB. Time will tell I suppose.

Thanks for keeping me alive here!

Signed: DPJ

J/C

Teams have traded good players away for years

Pittsburgh always knew when to do that, They would trade away a player and have the next player step up

Washington traded 2019 first founder Montez Sweat to Chigao for a 2024 2nd round pick

They also traded thier 2020 first round pick Chase Young to San Fransisco in exchange for a 2024 compensatory third round

And the Commanders won against the Patroits

The Browns traded their 2020 sixth round pick in DPJ to Detroit for Detroits 2025 sixth round pick

The Browns also won

It's buisness, it's how it works it's what NFL teams do

The Browns got a sixth for a sixth

Commanders got a second for a first and a third for a first

Eight games left, hopefully the QB and WR's play will get better as the season goes

Time will tell

I'm already over them shipping out DPJ (Sunday's game certainly helped). I also forgot that he was UFA this off-season.

I just hate the "we're trading this guy so that the draft pick can play". It makes no sense, especially with the "we're all about competition" mantra Stefanski likes to go back to.

In 2018, we traded Carlos Hyde so a young man named Nick Chubb could play.

It happens.

I get it. When you add in the contract situation, and his lack of production, be it his problem or the fact we weren't playing him, it made things a pretty simple decision for Berry.


It made zero sense to not use him and just let him walk at seasons end.

So other than Cooper, where's the Nick Chubb of WR's on the Browns right now? Usually when one attempts to use an analogy it's expected there will be similarities in the comparison.

I don't think it was even a "we're trading him so the draft pick can play" move at all, but a "we've realized that he isn't in the 2024 Plans, and that draft pick affords us the luxury of minimal drop-off if we trade him now to get something".
Because of when the trade deadline is, you have to make these kinds of decisions and moves now, or you're stuck accepting that you're getting nothing for the player.

So, the real trade-off here is that the future 6th was more valuable that expected loss in contribution over the second half of the season; and that is probably because the draft pick is expected to contribute at least close to the same level.
Same Contribution and No Compensation, or same Contribution and a 6th in Compensation.

Do you have a crystal ball?

Neither did anyone else before Chubb became a superstar.

Hard to compare before the future comes to pass.

Many of you have complained about us not having a viable backup QB on the roster for when Watson went down and the DPJ situation is the same thing only to a lesser degree. We could have kept DPJ and still played Tillman, what happens now if Tillman stinks it up or gets hurt? We would than be hurting for depth at WR and the trade deadline has passed so it would have to be a waiver wire pickup or a PS addition and do you think we would get the same production from them that DPJ could give us? We are in win now mode and you keep any player that is productive. How many 6th round picks pan out?, DPJ has been better than most so we just weakened our team this year to get player next year whose odds are that he won't even make the team.

The difference there is that Chubb had shown fashes before the trade was made and also the fact that we had a losing record at the time and not win now mode like we currently are.

So you can't think of a single WR other than Cooper who has the skill set to be a comparison to the Chubb situation. In the case of Chubb, in case your memory fails you, most everyone thought Chubb was a better solution. He had shined since he first came into camp. People were mystified as to why he wasn't starting. It got so bad that many fans as well as those in the media believed the sole reason the FO traded away Carlos Hyde to Jacksonville is because it would force Kitchens to start Chubb. Nothing today comes close to resembling that same situation in regards to a stud being forced on the sideline by DPJ.

Comparisons and analogies are fine when they are somehow comparable.

It wasn't Fast Freddie, it was Clueless Hue...

Chubb had 7 carries.
Tillman has 4 targets.

Hyde sucked.
DPJ sucked.

Don't see much difference before we see it play out, not outside of trying to sell opinion as fact.

At the time of the Hyde trade Chubb had 16 carries for 173 yards and 2 tds, when DPJ was traded Tillman had 1 catch for 5yds and was inactive for 3 games.

The opinion that everyone could see that Chubb was an obvious upgrade to Hyde but no such a situation exists now? That's not an opinion.

Now you're beginning to allow facts to get in the way. You know that's frowned upon around here.

I'm sure DPJ will be a superstar in Detroit, and I have no idea how we'll replace the 12 yards per game and fair catches.

Carry on.

This is such a weird argument.

Berry had two choices...1. Trade him now and get something for him. 2. Let him play out the season and walk after.

Neither choice was wrong. Unless you believe trading DPJ will prevent the Browns from winning the Super Bowl. I would rather wait and have this argument after Tillman drops a go ahead TD that knock the Browns out of the playoffs. Then argue to your hearts content that DPJ would have caught it.

Otherwise it's a pretty big non issue.

You need to pick a side!!

What Would Sashi Do?

#WWSD

He'd drop the "People's Fax Machine" on your non-analytical ...behind.

Sashi would have also traded DJP's mom for a 2055 7th round pick.

The funny thing about this whole DPJ trade is the thought process that either we trade him and get something, or we let him walk at the season's end and get nothing. Here's the funny part - trading DPJ got the Browns absolutely nothing for next year - exactly the same result if they hung on and let him walk for nothing. The payoff for trading DPJ (if there's a payoff at all) wouldn't occur until 2025.

If you look at the Browns receiving compared to previous seasons, I'm not so sure that DPJ's production is the main issue.
(includes all receptions - RB, TE, and WR)

2020: 315 receptions (19.69 per gm) - rank 29th, 3,701 yards (231.31 per gm) - rank 27th, 11.8 yds/rec - rank 7th, 27 TD's (1.69 per gm) - rank 16th
2021: 320 receptions (18.82 per gm) - rank 30th, 3,619 yards (212.18 per gm) - rank 26th, 11.3 yds/rec - rank 10th, TD's 21 (1.24 per gm) - rank 24th
2022: 335 receptions (19.71 per gm) - rank 27th, 3,710 yards (218.24 per gm) - rank 23rd, 11.1 yds/rec - rank 15th, TD's 19 (1.12 per gm) - rank 20th
2023: 153 receptions (17.00 per gm) - rank 31st, 1,650 yards (183.33 per gm) - rank 28th, 10.8 yds/rec - rank 14th, TD's 7 (.78 per gm) - rank 29th

It's clear that the passing game as a whole has been dismal this season when compared to the previous 3 seasons and those were considered unacceptable to be a Super Bowl contender. The Browns have some difficult games on the horizon. Hopefully with Watson back and the moving on from DPJ, we might start seeing the elite passing results touted by the Browns.

The problem with your logic comes because they can potentially use the future pick to trade up in this upcoming draft. Just because the compensation is scheduled for 2025 doesn't mean it stays with us there.

DPJ's production wasn't the main problem with our passing game. Obviously, there were a lot of issues headlined by subpar QB play. Yet, DPJ wasn't/isn't in the plans any longer. They decided trading him away was how he could best provide future value to the team. He was averaging 1.1 catches a game at 5.4 yards per target and a 38.9% success rate on the season. With that sort of production, he wasn't likely to get a contract as a UFA that would net a compensatory pick.