DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Sign QB Joe Flacco

I’d bet my pension that Flacco could put up more points than DTR consistently. You really doubt a Super Bowl mvp, in a passing league designed to protect the qb, who’s thrown for 40k yards and 230+ tds wouldn’t be able to outperform a 5th round rookie who’s hasn’t thrown For 300 yards total yet and has zero tds, 4 ints and has a sub 30 qbr. Add in the fact that his yards per pass is well below the average ypc of an nfl running back. I get wanting him to do well but let’s not pretend he’s given any indicator that things are clicking. If they we just going to ride him out the season we would have just a vet camp arm. We didn’t do that, we got a proven playoff qb. That tells me the FO isn’t going to hesitate to move to flacco if DTR doesn’t start playing better

I would guess that the FO views it as a race between the two. Can DTR get the hang of it enough to keep us from switching to Flacco before Flacco can get the offense and terminology down.
There's also a lot to be said for DTR being a guy that has been here all year; he's one of the team; he's paid his dues alongside everyone else all season. Flacco is a new guy that has to learn everything, and everyone, and fit in while coming into things more than half way through the season. It might not play well if the FO gets too trigger happy on yanking DTR.

Not having a "nice" play as you describe it isn't necessarily a bad thing. I haven't noticed any "bad' plays either. Safety is the last line of defense so to speak. If the ball isn't getting to that last line of defense, he isn't going to have many "nice" plays.

on the flip side, DTR has been here the whole year and still looks like that..lol. I would also say a guy like Flacco won't need much time at all to get the terminology down, and the defenses are the same defenses he's seen for 10+ years, the key will be how fast he develops chemistry with the WR, same goes for DTR, he was throwing behind, above, in the ground off their facemask the whole game.. So he has his own chemistry to work on with the receivers too, so yeah it could be a race to who gets there faster.

I get what you're saying, but when you're playing with the practice squad it's doing nothing to help build chemistry with the starters. Sure it's learning the plays and the play book, but Flacco has been in different systems where he has had to adapt so I don't see that as being as big of an obstacle as some might. I saw what Dobbs was able to accomplish in a matter of days when he went to Minnesota and he has a fraction of the experience Flacco does.

I don't think the entire, " been here all year; he's one of the team; he's paid his dues alongside everyone else all season" matters. These players want to win. They want to be in the playoffs. They want the QB that gives them the best chance to accomplish those things under center on game day. DTR hasn't been beside the starters all year. He's been working with the practice squad until just a couple of short weeks ago. If anything I would suppose that the starters respect the accomplishments and abilities of Flacco.

I'm all for giving Flacco a couple of weeks to get acclimated before the discussion seriously begins on which QB is the starter. But unless DTR improves a lot over the next couple of weeks, the Browns simply can't risk missing the playoffs over sentiment.

Our O, right now, needs a quarterback who can chuck the football down the field. P.J. and DTR aren’t that guy right now. Perhaps DTR will improve but Joe can distribute the pigskin.

Flacco's stats for the last three seasons when he was 35,36, and 37 years old. He is now 38 and has not played in 10 1/2 months.

last 3 seasons
12 games
comp percentage 57%
yards 2249 which is 187 yards per game.
TD's 14
Int's 6
11 rushes for 33 yards.
Won 1 game and lost 11.



QB rating for those 12 games

2022 36.1 QBR
2021 49.5 QBR
2020 50.3 QBR

Flacco's chance of leading us to a Superbowl at this stage of his career is NOT better than our chances with DTR. DTR will still improve and he can run. Flacco at his age will regress from what he was the last 3 years and he can't run.

But he only put up 13 points against the Steelers in his second start.

And that's all we have to go on.

This was an error on my part about the rankings. My apologies.



Though unless i’m reading it wrong, Pitt was ranked #10 last year for the memories comment. As for the ranking this year, it is a little skewed as they didn’t have Cam Heyward a good portion of the season.

While I don't disagree their D is hampered by not having Heyward, this is the ranking of the D DTR played against. Maybe they will rank better next year with a healthy Heyward but hopefully we'll have watson starting against that D.

How long can we keep winning when we score one TD per game?

well, this is Flacco's team now

Guess who is starting in LA next week...

I don’t know. I’ll tell you once DTR goes through concussion protocol

I think it'll be Flacco in L.A.. DTR has already been confirmed to have failed the concussion test and has a concussion. Likely tough to pass out of the concussion protocol testing that quickly.

Also, it means he will not be able practice.

Not long. I usually don't go in the gameday chat but stopped in a few times yesterday. When we went down 14-0 I commented that we were now 5FG behind and it probably wasn't going to happen unless we scored some touchdowns.

DTR! DTR! DTR!...come on everybody, let me hear ya...I didn't think so.

I am confident 90% of this board has no idea what they are watching. Maybe the number is higher.

The whole anti-DTR thing on this board is really strange after a game where he lead a game winning drive and another where he was playing solid with a couple splash plays that show his ability and again getting crushed by drops.

But because he was drafted in the fifth round people have made up their minds. If this was Baker's rookie year and he had the same game against the Steelers with the game winning drive people would be claiming we finally had a franchise QB.

Before a lucky jet sweep to seal the game last night Lamar had lead his team to a grand total of 13 pts. They better get Matt Ryan and Carson Wentz in there asap for a playoff run.

This place is nuts.

LOL...I know what I am watching, and have no illusions of who DTR is. He can be a decent QB, but my deal is we are in a tight playoff battle and he isn't ready for that.

If he is our best chance, so be it. At this point I am 100% in favor of Flacco's experience. He may not have it, and that is that, but I am not interested in DTRs development and experience at this point. I'd like to see what Flacco has.

No doubt DTR's ceiling is higher than Flacco since Flacco has reached his and is on the way down. I am just not sure that DTRs ceiling will be higher than Flacco's level when he was younger. I do know that Flacco has the experience and DTR doesn't, and isn't going to gain the same level of experience over the next 2-3 games and he isn't going to gain it in those games.

I ask the question again, are we tring to develop a back-up QB or are we trying to win a Super Bowl?

DTR doesn't have the NFL body to play. the hit that took him out wasn't bad or dirty, but being 125lbs is what hurt him. But the reality is he's not ready, there are very few rookie QB's that get their teams to the playoffs and majority are one and done anyways, injury replacements fare even worse. Funny enough, the two most successful rookie QB's in the playoffs, Russell Wilson and Joe Flacco. But I think that talk is premature and unfortunately we have issues now where we are pretty much done for the season so at this point if DTR can play he should so we know what we have for next year.. this year is over. You don't come back from this amount of injuries

I 100% support and understand the argument that Flacco has more experience and may be the better choice at this juncture because of those reasons. I don't think that's the way it will turn out but I understand the argument.

But that's not the argument being made in some cases. There's an anti-DTR argument that he's not putting up points because he isn't good and will never be good. He's not putting up enough points for the Browns to be successful. In his 2nd and 3rd starts...one in which he lead a game winning drive.

Does that argument make any sense? Jackson and Herbert were locked in a 13-10 stalemate last night with under two minutes to go in the 4th quarter.

I would also ask people to watch the game again yesterday. Notice the extreme drop-off in play from DTR to PJ. DTR was actually reading the field, making throws, not taking sacks, and not turning the ball over. A couple of his throws were elite throws. He also read the field slowly and delivered the ball inaccurately at times. PJ dropped back, literally had no idea what was going on, ran into sacks, and basically gave the Browns no chance. How you don't walk away from that encouraged by DTRs performance I don't know.

People want Flacco, great. We are going to get him. I will be pulling for the Browns to win no matter what. But I don't necessarily agree he gives us the best chance to win even with DTRs inexperience.

I think next game will say a lot in terms of DTR and the remainder of the year.

Denver was daring/begging DTR to hit med/long passes from the first play of the game. Drops were bad and on the receivers, but DTR's placement was not great either. Couple that with a lack of touch and you get hard-to-catch balls. Not saying the drops were on DTR, simply saying his game was not good. If he's healthy then I'd love to see him bounce back vs Rams. If not... Flacco has now been in the building for a few weeks throwing to these receivers.

If so you are certainly on the 90+% side.


Drops happen on every team in the NFL. Nobody is "anti DTR". They are "pro Browns make the playoffs and compete in the playoffs". In case you missed it, those are not the same thing.





Yes, Lamar doesn't have a proven track record, far more W's than L's and playoff appearances that mean anything. It's like the exact same thing! When you sink to this level it's obvious the desperation has set in. DTR has potential. He may develop into a very good QB. But that isn't what he is yet and the playoffs are on the line. This isn't the situation you spend developing a QB.

I'm just wondering if DTR throws a ball that's really hard to catch, like DA did on his short passes. Even Cooper has dropped a few, and we've not seen that before DTR.

I think it’s more a case of DTR not being very good at finessing the ball yet. He seems to have one throwing speed; BULLET.

Good point, he rips them in there, but guys gotta catch the ball, too.
I’m not anti-DTR, and he wasn’t even that terrible and nor was he the biggest culprit in the loss, but bottom line is we can’t sustain wins when we’re scoring a TD every game.

If we could have caught the ball yesterday the game might have been different. We could have scored a little more. Hope our receivers understand that!!!

We were sloppy as hell, botched handoff, reverse that totally was laughable, pre-snap penalties, dropsies. In essence we played like garbage.
Even our punter couldn’t pin them deep, had an off-game with too many touchbacks (he does hammer it though).

yeah I'm def. not anti DTR, he is what he is, he's a 5th round rookie being thrust into service under the worst possible scenario, a brain dead playcaller and injuries everywhere and the expectation of getting to the playoffs. I don't wish that pressure on anyone, I think its detrimental to development . I want flacco because I think he's the guy that isn't going to get bothered by all that, has had the expectations of having to make plays to get to the playoffs and then be successful. Its about whats best for the team given all the extenuating circumstances to navigate, a seasoned vet is the best person to do that. DTR def. doesn't understand NFL windows yet or anticipation. He doesn't have great ball placement. Perfect example of this is the throw to cooper for the 2pt. Should cooper caught it, as WR1, yeah thats a play you want to see him make, but he was WIDE OPEN, there was no need for the 100mph fastball at his feet. Those are things he will learn and you want him to learn them, but right now it can't be at the expense of us winning ballgames.

That's a pretty good question. I wonder?

I think DTR throws a ball without much touch ... and seems to be slightly behind guys, which is awkward. The combo of the two is probably an issue.

I think he's shown some growth, but is still erratic

I'm not anti-DTR, but I'm not pro-DTR, either. Like you said, he is what he is. So far, that isn't much and he is not our best option even when healthy.
Before the game, I thought it was a race between Flacco & DTR to see if Flacco could get up-to-speed before DTR figured things out.... that race was over before DTR was knocked out of the game. He played poorly enough to lose the job. The fact that we looked marginally better and moved with more of a rhythm when Walker went in is all that needs to be said. Ready or not, we need to move forward with Flacco.





Watching the game, I kept saying to myself, and texting with my brothers, that he reminded me of Weeden with all of the low fastballs. I said Weeden, but I probably meant DA. They're all interchangeable to me at this stage, but the point was that he looked like whichever QB it was that was always throwing the ball 100 miles an hour and on a low, downward trajectory. I saw more balls thrown at knees and ankles than anything else, or so it felt while watching.

"The fact that we looked marginally better and moved with more of a rhythm when Walker went in is all that needs to be said."

wait, what????

Not the game I watched. Down 14-0, he led the team on 3 scoring drives to what should have tied the game - thanks Coop. Upon leaving the game concussed, PJ came in and did absolutely nothing and proved he belongs in the XFL, CFL, or the Lingerie League - anything but the NFL.

Maybe I should re-watch it (not going to), but I felt the offense was executing better as far as he goes (play calls were still stupid, and I never complain about those, and the receivers still dropped balls).

Agree all around.

If it was possible to have a candid conversation with players on the team, I'd bet the vast majority would rather see Flacco start.

Experience counts, especially at the QB position.

LOL The club and I named DA "Mr. Potato Cannon" because of the low screamers. Man must have hated worms. Some bad misses making easy ones look hard. Still a much better place than Flipper.

Look at the arm on that guy! I bet he can really throw a football!

DA went to the Pro Bowl.