DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Dec. 7, 1941 - Pearl Harbor Attacked

My grandfathers younger brother(Uncle Louie) was at Pearl when it was hit.

Never forget...!

A day that will live in infamy. Thanks for the reminder

Sadly, time marches on and today Pearl Harbor is exactly as distant to any person today as the USS Maine was in 1980.

I remember learning about "Remember the Maine, To Hell with Spain!" (we were only officially taught the first half of that in school, lol) and how it launched us into the Spanish-American War, and I remember being angry that such a thing could happen, but it was also just too distant for me to really feel any real connection. Afterall, two entire World Wars along with Vietnam and Korea had happened since then.

Well, today, that's how distant Pearl Harbor is, and a LOT has happened in the years since 1980 and I just don't think this date resonates with the younger generations the way it used to. The Date Which Will Live in Infamy is slowly being forgotten.

For now, though, I remember, and I save at least one little moment each year for those that died that day and in the four years that followed.

Do you have those dates right?

Just went on base at Hickham/Pearl Harbor last year in 2022. Took my son and my father-in-law with me, while my wife, daughter and mother-in-law went elsewhere. All six of us went on board the Missouri and saw the memorial at the Arizona, which is still considered to be a national cemetery with all of the sailors still entombed on it. It also is still leaking oil. Highly recommend both places.

Used my access to get on base as well and there is also a ton of stuff to see there, too, for those who can get on. For instance, a lot of the buildings still have the bullet and shrapnel marks on them from the attack.

Windows to the past.

And it's sad just how accurate you are. You see, our nation is an infant in the grand scheme of things. Settlers who came here in the 1600's and 1700's came from Europe which had already been settled for hundreds of years by then. So comparing the two, 100 year ago in Europe is a drop in the bucket to how Americans see 100 years ago.

Just for a little perspective I just turned 65 years old last month. From the time I was born until just before I turned 10 years old, J.F.K, Malcom X, MLK and RFK were all assassinated from just before I turned 5 until just before I turned 10. There was Vietnam, Kent State and the race riots. While things are very chaotic today, it's not the first time.

On average I go to Hickham/PH a couple times a month for other reasons. I usually go one weekend day or two a month to Ford Island. Ford Island can only be accessed through tours (which only go to the MIssiouri) or DoD/military/veterans. If you have the chance and have access or someone that has access; I highly recommend going around Ford Island. If any of you come visit between now and the next couple years, please reach out. I would be honored to give a tour of the island.

Some really interesting things about it:

- the Aviation museum

- there's a 4-4.5 mile walking trail that goes around the edge of the island. It has quite a few stopping points with information on the history of the island and also the attack. It's a nice set up and some great information and like DL05 alluded to quite a few areas where you can still see where the Japanese machine gun rounds embedded in the concrete.

- One area on the southeastern side of the island (by the Aviation Museum), there is a very wide concrete area. It's mostly a parking area now for the Warfighting Center, however back in the day it was a plane hangar. I love stopping there and recreating all the things that went on in that historic spot. The former stairs to the hangar are there, rounds embedded in the concrete, there are areas where there used to be concrete - now just grassy spots. Those areas are where bombs were dropped. If you look out from the stairs, to your left is Battleship Row and when you turn your head to the right, there's the Pearl Harbor canal entrance to the open seas. It's mind blowing to me picturing all the chaos that went on in that spot. It sounds cheesy, but I do like to go there, pay respects, and reflect on things.

- Another memorial on the northern side is the USS Utah. The Utah was sunk during the attack and part of the ship is still visible. It was mostly a training ship, however dozens of Sailors died on the ship during the attack.

Sadly..?

purp...If you are in my shoes, there is another way to look at your comment..."thankfully, time keeps marching on"...

Concerning American History, I find it interesting that when my HS teachers attempted to teach History, it was difficult hold my interest. At that time teachers were more concerned about major events and the dates rather than telling the factual events, based on people who lived through the events of WWII.

Over the last 20 yrs or so, historians tried to take advantage of the living resources available to them to search for film and the actual individuals who were involved in the historic events, such as WWII. I'm a big fan of the History Channel and the Military History Channels and because of the efforts of Historians to utilize factual resources to tell the stories and teach the past events, based on individuals who lived during events such as the Pearl Harbor attack.

It seems that using the comments and actual video from sources that lived through events such as the many battles of WWII, helps to validate those events in a way that History Books cannot.

Concerning the USS Maine...I admit, I had to look it up and here is what I found.

... 1898-The USS Maine explodes in Cuba’s Havana Harbor

link

A massive explosion of unknown origin sinks the battleship USS Maine in Cuba’s Havana harbor on February 15, 1898, killing 260 of the fewer than 400 American crew members aboard.

One of the first American battleships, the Maine weighed more than 6,000 tons and was built at a cost of more than $2 million. Ostensibly on a friendly visit, the Maine had been sent to Cuba to protect the interests of Americans there after a rebellion against Spanish rule broke out in Havana in January.

An official U.S. Naval Court of Inquiry ruled in March that the ship was blown up by a mine, without directly placing the blame on Spain. Much of Congress and a majority of the American public expressed little doubt that Spain was responsible and called for a declaration of war.


Subsequent diplomatic failures to resolve the Maine matter, coupled with United States indignation over Spain’s brutal suppression of the Cuban rebellion and continued losses to American investment, led to the outbreak of the Spanish-American War in April 1898.

Within three months, the United States had decisively defeated Spanish forces on land and sea, and in August an armistice halted the fighting. On December 12, 1898, the Treaty of Paris was signed between the United States and Spain, officially ending the Spanish-American War and granting the United States its first overseas empire with the ceding of such former Spanish possessions as Puerto Rico, Guam and the Philippines.

In 1976, a team of American naval investigators concluded that the Maine explosion was likely caused by a fire that ignited its ammunition stocks, not by a Spanish mine or act of sabotage.

My dad was in WW2, wounded in the invasion of Saipan, apparently blown into the water out of his landing craft. I have the actual telegram mom received from the War Department that was quite vague. I asked her once how long it took to find out if dad was really OK and she said 2-3 months which always amazed me in today's speed of information age.

My mom moved back to her parents with my oldest sister who was born in July of 1942. I can't imagine what she was going through.

I have always been interested in the home front during WW2 and the patriotic buy-in that occurred by non-military citizens. I realize there was black market activities, but I feel mostly citizens cooperative with the war effort.

Hollywood's depictions of the home front in more modern movies, say the past 30 years amazes and somewhat frustrates me. I have seen movies where a couple is awakened out of bed to the radio announcement of the Japanese invasion at about 8:30 in the morning on the eastern part of the US. I don't know if they don't care or just didn't bother to figure out 8am Hawaii time was early afternoon in the east.

I also don't think most US citizens knew where or what Pearl Harbor was until the attack. I don't really know, just assuming. I know when war was declared my mom was very worried and my dad was drafted, he didn't immediately run off and enlist. I imagine my parents had just found out my mom was expecting their first baby and that added to the worry.

Today, many people don't even seem to know where states are located so if someone invaded a US territory like Guam or Puerta Rico would the reaction and rush retaliate be somewhat suppressed?

Just wondering.

I was in the Army but stationed on Hickam. We did our daily pt just off that canal, amazing to see the ships going out in the mornings, subs were the coolest.

Where we worked on Hickam, the airplanes would literally fly and land right next to us, that was awesome to see daily.

When I first got to Hawaii, I was stationed at Schofield Barracks and alot of our pt runs, road marches would take us up near Kolekole Pass, where the japanese flew before bombing Pearl Harbor.

Thats awesome Frenchy. I am stationed at the Army base very close to Hickam. I will be in a conversation with someone and pause mid-sentence to watch the fighter jets taking off one by one, lol. I love watching them.

I'm technically not answering your question. I will say I know PR has military bases on it. As for Guam, a very big portion of the island (it is a really small, but beautiful island) is made up of military bases. Air Force, Navy, Marines and Army are all on the island.

A couply years ago, they did a Pearl Harbor reenactment at the Toledo Airshow. It was just amazing.....especially when the formation of Japanese Zeros came over the horizon. The pyrotechnics were unreal. I was able to get some decent pics.

Those are some amazing pics Jfan.

I would love to take you up on that offer. Don't know how I read all your posts and never put 2 and 2 together.

My late father lived in Honolulu for years because his father was in the Navy. His father (my grandfather obviously) fought in the Navy on the USS Nautilus submarine (the diesel one, not the famous nuke one). I was giddy to see that submarine actually was featured in the Midway movie (the new one, not the Charlton Heston one). He was a Chief Warrant Officer.

I spent a lot of time in my head trying to imagine what the attack was like. I'm sure it was not even close, but I still tried.

When you see the layout of Pearl Harbor, it adds to a lot of the context. Not the best setup. All the battleship mooring stations were lined along the side of the harbor such that it looks like you'd drive down a street with lines of cars parallel parked on both sides of a proverbial street. Probably made it easier for the Japanese to strafe.

My dad always talked about his time on Hawaii when he lived with his dad there. The first thing I did the morning after we landed was to drive to his old neighborhood and see where he lived (his house was torn down unfortunately). We stayed at the Disney resort (my wife's idea not mine) on the western side of the Island. I was still on East Coast time, so I got up super early (before sunrise) and drove from Aulani out to the Eastern side of the island to check out his old neighborhood. I hadn't thought of the scenery at all beforehand, but I drove through the Tetsuo Harano tunnel just after dawn and it was without a doubt the most breathtakingly scenic drive of my entire life with all the cliffs and the clouds cascading over the top as the sun rose. I wish I could have pulled over to soak it all in. His old neighborhood was right by Kailua Beach. As I got there, a bunch of pontoon boats were getting ready to go in the water, and it was really windy. Chickens were everywhere (another oddly unique Hawaiian thing). I will never forget that day.

That is awesome. I love your description (painting the picture) of your memories/story! Being here, I can picture all of that. Super cool about your father being here and your grandfather being on the submarine. I have a ton of respect for those guys on those submarines.

Much agreed about the layout of the Pearl Harbor. There is a wall size picture of the sky view looking down at Ford Island with all the ships docked. It is an amazing photo to understand how the set up was for that dreadful day.

About a year and half ago, my parents came out to visit and I took them all over the island, but we spent a day going through all of Pearl Harbor, Ford Island and Hickem. My dad loves war history. When I was stationed in DC, I took him to Gettysburg and he was excited to tell me all about the different areas and situations. The same happened here in Hawaii. One of the stops was at Hickem and we stopped to check out the an Army ship that was docked and there was a pier where a few Vets were fishing. It was a really beautiful view, then all of a sudden it hit me and I realized where we were. I looked at my dad, and said; Dad, this is the opening of the canal to Ford Island. This is where our Sailors were trying to get our Battleships out to the open-seas while under attack. Literally gave me goosebumps.

Kailua is a beautiful area. Lanikai right beside it is one of my favorite beaches. There are three pill boxes overlooking the beach. I love that hike and love the history that is part of the pill boxes.

I'm here for a couple more years and hope to extend my tour for a couple more after that. If you come out, please DM me. I would love to show you around any places you haven't seen and to hear some more stories!

Mahalo!

That’s freaking awesome man! I definitely will if I get out there again which I very much hope to do.

Yep, I know the movies closer to the end of WW2 were more realistic. I forget the total number soldiers in the total US military, but it was low. I saw documentaries of soldiers training using fake wooden machine guns and firing sacks of flour at cars used as tank targets. We were definitely nor ready for a serious interaction/It si actually amazing how quickly we were able to stabilize. The Midway battle was only about 6 months after PH.

I have brought up the same point about the Maine in some 9-11 thread. Once you get 50-60-70 years removed, I don't want to say people don't care, it just doesn't have any real meaning to them. It just something that happened in the old days.

While we certainly had to ramp up production in military weaponry, I think it helped that we were already in a somewhat ramped up production mode. We had began helping supply allied forces with weaponry and military supplies well before Pearl Harbor and increased that help significantly in late 1940. It certainly wasn't to the level of fighting a war but I think it helped lay the ground work for a quick ramp up in production.

The Japanese also missed one of their main targets: the Aircraft Carriers in the initial attack.

This was absolutely one stroke of luck. If this didn't happen, we may not have succeeded at Midway (where we sunk 4 Japanese aircraft carriers and killed most of their best pilots) or begun our Pacific operations at Guadalcanal. The Japanese would have controlled the Pacific theater for quite some time.

This is one aspect that amazes me, too. We were definitely nowhere near as battle-hardened as the Japanese were. They had already been actively involved in war for years before PH happened. When I go back and rewatch the Midway documentaries, it's crazy how just a few moments of good fortune and good decisionmaking made all the difference. Moments like Nimitz trusting Dyer's code cracking, our planes just happening to barely locate the Japanese destroyer (I think it was a destroyer - could have been a cruiser), and Nagumo's one very bad decision were so monumental and pivotal to such an enormous battle.

Yes.