DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Joe Flacco vs. DeShaun Watson 2023

Flacco - 4 games. 1307 yards 59,4%, 7,5 Y/A. 10 TD 7 INT. Rating 85,1.

Watson - 6 games. 1115 yards 61,4%, 6,5 Y/A. 7 TD 4 INT. Rating 84,3.

(Mayfield -15 games. 3598 yards 64,3%, 7,2 Y/A. 26 TD 8 INT. Rating 96,2.)

Who’s the better fit for the Browns offense and who if both are healthy deserves to start in a potential play off game?

Bonus question. Have they both been better 2023 then a certain Baker Mayfield? (who btw earn less then 5M this season excluding bonuses)

IMO Flacco is the better fit for Stefanski ... but I don't know if that will matter after this year

doesn't matter, we are married to Watson because of the contract. I'd like to see Flacco as our backup next year. If we had him instead of Walker, we win the Seahawks game, and maybe the broncos game

I totally agree that we look much better with Flacco and that’s why I ask the question.

I think the eye test alone shows us that Watson doesn't marry with KS as a coach ... and the Flacco month has confirmed that too

This is a ridiculous thread. It's not like there's a choice to be made and we know you have an axe to grind because of your hate for Watson.

I love that we are winning. A specific crowd has been quiet and I am loving it. Reading the absurd assumption based posts were unbearable.

Certain posters can no longer come to the board to complain about the FO/coach because of a loss or two, so it's time to manufacture a debate about the QB situation.

That said, I hope Watson is watching what is working between Flacco and Stefanski almost instantaneously........namely the deep game. Watson has that arm too.

Flacco has shown what a good passer can do with our offensive.

When a retired 38 year oldie is literally better from his first throw then question must be asked. What do you prefer. The best QB at the team or the guy with the highest salary?

Namely,

I'd prefer Joe Montana in his prime, which has the same relevance as what you're asking.

Keep both next year.

Agreed. I've already posted that. I'm sure we'll need JF next year to the way things have gone with DW and if DW gets hurt next season we'll be in the same boat as this year. Keep Joe!!

Yeah but... if Joe even wants to play next next year he won’t want to be a backup. Just enjoy this moment, stop worrying about 2024.

For me it’s not Flacco vs watson long term. No doubt Flacco has been better and more consistent than DW. But let’s not think Joe is a long term solution. Would love him as the backup. For me it’s looking at Baker this year and thinking would we have been better off with BM and all that draft capital or not. Right now I’m not sure we wouldn’t be, we gave up a ton in draft capital and cap and Baker is playing like before he got hurt

First let me say I am not a DW hater. I don't like what he did in his personal life, but I rooted for him as our QB.

So far DW isn't half the QB that Flacco is. DW played scared! Flacco plays with confidence!

Flacco is an amazingly different QB since his stints in Denver and NY. I have no idea what happened, but I'm happy with whatever changed him!

Flacco is the first REAL QB this franchise has had since 1999.

Look how smooth he looks in the pocket. Look at his confidence and general field leadership. His understanding of coverages, etc. Look at his BIG arm!

He's had some INT's and has looked shaky at times, but he was on the couch a few weeks ago. No training camp. No team. Nowhere!

Strap in! Get ready! We are going all the way baby!

Right now you're just silly. Since Flacco's arrival the whole organizations confidence has eleveted and suddenly we almost look like a SB contender.

Especially Stefanski has benefited from having an elite passer to his disposal and suddenly his play calling looks much more mature. I'm definitely not an expert but my understanding is that with a more potent deep threat our play book has become more unpredictable and suddenly both Amari Cooper and David Njoku's potential has been more visible.

If we're going to go all the way we need not only more quality on the field but also a high dose of confidence and arrogance. Having a QB who has been there and done it seems to have a taking away a little bit of our HC previous anxiousness and replaced it with more decisiveness. For me that's crucial when we enter the play off and understanding and simple communication between our coaches and players are maybe the most important tool to have when everything is on the line. It doesn't matter how good the play calling is if the instructions isn't going all the way forward to our players on field. All this is why I think Joe Flacco at the moment is not only a better QB then Watson but also his influence on the rest of the organization is so much more valuable.

really don't know what the point of this thread is.

Has Flaco been better for the Browns than DW ? Yes. Either hard or impossible to debate that. But DW has a huge contract and is what, 12 years younger? So DW is the Browns QB when he's healthy. All we can do is hope the flashes we saw in a couple of games was a transformative moment and DW will be 'Good' going forward. If he can play at an elite level like he did in one game (Titans?) then so much the better. But that's 2024 and the future.

Today Joe F is our QB and we're going to the playoffs and we've got a fighters chance of winning the first game and from there who knows. Until this season's story line has played out I don't need to rehash the DW debate. jmo

He will never be our long term franchise QB because of his personality and the fact that he isn't good enough. Mark my words. A serious and ambitious organization will do whatever it takes to crawl out of that contract if they mean business. I know most of you in this forum don't agree with me but I let time be my friend.

One good game in two seasons mgh888?
Do you lay your hope on a guy who show up less then 5%. (I refuse to believe that)

I lay my hope on 2023, Joe F and the playoffs this year with a great D and a team finding ways to win.


I'll talk about and worry about next season when it's here.

Yep, all assumption based.

What's silly is this thread. Your hatred for DW prompted you to ask who would be a better qb in the playoffs. We're there now with JF and DW is out for the season. JF is playing lights out, we're winning. Most of us are sitting back and smelling the roses, not festering over a grudge we can do nothing about. There's no question that "must be asked" at this point and time.

I like Joe Flacco and he has given this team a real chance in the playoffs. The Ravens look like the team to beat in the playoffs. DeShaun has never lost head-to-head vs Lamar Jackson college or pro including this year with the Browns in Baltimore. That would still have been nice to have if the Browns end up playing the Ravens again in Baltimore.

As far as Baker. His team is 8-7 playing in the weakest division in the NFL this year the NFC South. The AFC North has 0 teams under .500. He has shown us who he is and who he is going to be. Leading the Buccaneers in the weak NFC South is good for Baker. I'll take Flacco now and Deshaun in the AFC North.

The only crawling out from under that contract is a buyout. Haslam wrote that contract in the only way that would get Watson here. That was a mistake because Watson did not want to be here. That being said the only way to judge Watson’s performance is over a full season or as close to a full season as possible. Btw, in 5 years of playoffs with the Ravens Flacco was stellar in one year which was the year they won the Super Bowl. The other years he was very ordinary. His completion percentage also dropped. We will have to see how things go in the playoffs.

Quarterbacks don’t play against each other.

"That was a mistake because Watson did not want to be here."

I am not sure how you can make that statement? Nobody held a gun to his head to play for the Browns.

He had other viable offers with loads of money.

It was Deshaun Watsons decision to play for Cleveland.

The rest I agree with. You have to have an adequate viable sample. Start six games in a row now after you have been on the team and are prepared.

He started to get comfortable and then was injured. Next year is another chance for DW to show what he can do.

This year IMO it is about Joe and his current health. That and KS working the offense into what is best for Joe with this team.

Cooper is a precise route runner. Joe is an experienced quarterback who is good at play action. Play action is married to the route steps and the qb drop. It is about timing and throwing guys open in tight windows. That fits both Joe and Cooper.

We are now a passing offense. We can overcome poor OT play by getting the ball out on time to precise routes.

We are going to ride that train. One because the defense can hold teams to under 20 points. And two, because we can score more than 21 points with Flacco.

In the playoffs though we cannot turn it over with a short field to score. Can't do that against the better teams.

regardless of Flacco Vs Watson, maybe its just a matter of KS preferring (and maybe he didn't know he needed it at the time until he got it) a traditional pocket QB, tall, big arm. We might be seeing a pivot in our philosophy right before our eyes. One thing is for sure, the offense with flacco looks better than anything in the last 2 years and the playcaller hasn't changed

Flacco is the QB for the rest of this season... including playoffs... even if Watson gets healthy, I'm not sure you can make that change this late in the season with Joe playing so well...

next year, if Watson is healthy it's his team..... if Joe was 28, then I think I'd rather roll with Joe because he seems to fit better, but at his age he can't have much football left...

I for one don't think your question is out of bounds. Now if you were talking about moving forward between the two I think that would be out of line. Flacco is 38 years old and there's no telling what the physical demands of training camp, then preseason and starting for an entire season would do to his body. I'm not sure that moving forward after this season with Flacco as the starter is even worthy of discussion.

And even looking at the here and now I'm not sure there is a clear cut answer. First let's look at Flacco. Flacco is playing well. And there's certainly the familiarity factor in regards to what Stefanski had so much previous success with which first got him the Browns job in the first place. That was working with Kirk Cousins as his QB. It's certainly true that Flacco fits that mold much more than Watson does. So I do think having Flacco at QB fits into Stefanski's strong suit.

Now let's look at Watson. He's a young and very talented QB but his skill set is very different that what Stefanski was used to before coming here. He's a QB you can build around for the long term. There is no doubt that a team can achieve long term success with him as their QB. It was a marriage orchestrated by this FO. And to some extent it started out as a pretty messy marriage. But as we saw just before his injury this season that all began to settle down and settle in. Watson was playing much better and it seemed as though the coaching was starting to work well with watson's style of play. It was starting to look like a promising future was beginning to take shape.

That's why I don't see there being any clear cut answer to your question based on the here and now part of things. None of us can say with any certainty how well this O would be playing with Watson as the QB had he remained healthy this season. He was most certainly improving as well as Stefanski improving in his use of Watson. So it very well may be if that scenario had continued to play out we would be seeing a very dynamic O with Watson at the helm.

So to break it down moving into the future there is no doubt Watson is the QB the Browns should and will roll with.

As for the here and now we all witnessed Watson improving before he was injured and we have no way of knowing just how good this O would be now if Watson would have remained healthy. All indications are it would have looked pretty good at the very least.

My biggest takeaway from all of this on a personal level is that I hope this FO has learned just how critical it is to have a quality backup QB on the roster. Just how many benefits that pays. While it's wonderful that they managed to pull a rabbit out of their hats by resurrecting Flacco form his couch, that's more of an anomaly than strategy.

Both Stefanski and Berry have done an amazing job this year. When you have second and even third string players responding this way and winning games, it's all the proof one can ask for that they buy into the coaches. They buy into the system and they respond. That's the true sign of a leader.

I'd keep Flacco. It's always been about Character to me anyway. DW hasn't shown he has any.. Never has.

I know that it appears we don't have a choice, but we do. Pay DW and he becomes your second stringer. Expensive but who cares,, it's not our money. Besides, we've supported this team for a lot of years,, they can afford to bite the bullet...

Silly conversation.

I’d prefer Brady or Marino, but we have a 2023 Flacco. That fine with me he has played well.

I think there's merit to the argument that Flacco is a better fit for Stefanski than Watson. What does Stefanski excel at? It's not play calling. It's play design. Watson cannot execute the plays like Flacco can. He's not that type of QB. He's a backyard football QB. It's why Stefanski has to dial up so many plays where he turns Watson into a RB.

Having said that, if we are being completely honest, we are not winning because of Flacco. We are winning because of the defense. If Flacco had to carry the team, it wouldn't look the same, especially with all of the interceptions. This is a bit of a lightning in a bottle situation. A fun, glorious one that I think is going to have a storybook ending to it, but I'd be surprised if it would be sustainable into next year.

I also don't think Watson would fair well with Flacco as the backup, him playing poorly, and the fan base screaming for Flacco. I don't think Watson would be mentally strong enough to overcome that.

Next year it is Watsom, DTR, and a QB to be named later. Watson will get hurt again and DTR will take over as the starter.

As for Baker, it will be real interesting to see what TB does there. I think the minute you sign Baker long term you're in trouble.

The question is moot and will take care of itself. Flacco is NFL and like I’ve always said…The Browns not having a viable backup QB is absolutely insane. They can back each other up when one or the other can’t go.

The Browns org believes they are now in a Super Bowl window...as a fan it's impossible to not think that as well. When you are 'THAT' team, your decision at backup QBs HAS to be different and much more aggressive/expensive.

My hope is that they have a guy like Flacco (hopefully Flacco himself) on the roster next year along with DW and DTR. The question: Would you rather have player X or a backup QB that may not play? Is easy to answer for THIS team in THIS window. It's a no brainer. Next man up at LT/RT/DE/SS/FS etc has been answered...and now also at QB...but not until we washed through two other guys on the way to Flacco.

My other hope is that we DON'T fall BACK into the trap of thinking we must have a viable backup that plays DWs 'style'. That guy doesn't exist...if he did exist, he'd be a starter somewhere. I'm on board if one wants to have a developmental guy with similar traits as the starter and try to mold that guy a little to the offense we want to run with our personnel...but I'm not on board with rolling the dice (again) at backup QB. Flacco has shown that he is a perfect backup for a coach like Ski...he's done being a starter...if he wants to play in '24 it needs to be with the Browns.

Lastly, we may have seen DW figure it out the last couple of games he played...but there are two glaring realities:

#1 - He is coming off surgery to his throwing shoulder. That may never heal up properly...that may take a few more months than timing allows...we can't take chances with that in THIS window;

#2 - DW has not yet proven that the rust is completely gone and he's back to his earlier Pro Bowl form. We can hope/wish/convince that he is now or is on the way...but the reality is that he has NOT proven much of anything yet. Whether we think he will/can is irrelevant and DTR isn't - and won't - be ready to take the reins of a team in its window.

If DW can't handle the 'pressure' of a then-39 year old backup...then he isn't the guy anyway.

Guys, Would the Browns undo the Watson trade if they could?

UMMMM…… YES!