DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Joe Flacco vs. DeShaun Watson 2023

Browns 36 Houston 22

Yes, it was his choice to make, but don't be obtuse. It isn't hard to see that he didn't want to be here when he rejected us outright. The ONLY reason he is here is because his agent would have killed him if he rejected a 100% guaranteed 1/4 Billion dollar offer.

It's easily verifiable............

Texans QB Deshaun Watson passes on Browns, declines to waive no-trade clause for Cleveland

The Browns passed on Deshaun Watson five years ago in the NFL Draft.

On Thursday morning, Watson passed on Cleveland.

The Browns have been informed they are out of the running for Watson, a person familiar with the situation confirmed. Watson has a no-trade clause in his contract, and he decided he wouldn't waive it for Cleveland.

The Browns were willing to accept whatever public backlash would have come from making Watson the face of their franchise because owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam believe the controversial quarterback is capable of leading Cleveland to its first Super Bowl.

The Haslams authorized a massive trade offer for Watson, essentially signaling they can no longer envision hoisting a Lombardi Trophy with quarterback Baker Mayfield beside them.

On Thursday afternoon, Mayfield asked to be traded, but the Browns told his agent they are not accommodating the request, two league sources confirmed.

Deshaun Watson is considering three NFC South teams

Mayfield wants out of Cleveland on the heels of Watson rejecting the Browns.

Watson's other suitors are reportedly the New Orleans Saints, Atlanta Falcons and Carolina Panthers. By Thursday night, though, the Panthers had been told Watson eliminated them from consideration, according to NFL Network, leaving the Saints and Falcons.

The Browns risked their partnership with Mayfield by taking a massive swing at Watson, and the organization whiffed with the entire NFL watching the sweepstakes unfold.

Watson is a three-time Pro Bowl selection who has been accused of sexual misconduct or sexual assault by two dozen women during massage appointments. On Friday, a grand jury decided Watson wouldn't be criminally charged, but he still faces 22 civil lawsuits and a likely NFL suspension.

None of it stopped the Browns from trying to trade for Watson, 26. He's an elite player, and his talent had to have superseded all of his baggage in the eyes of the Haslams.

Watson met with the Saints and Panthers on Monday, the Browns on Tuesday and the Falcons on Wednesday. Those are the only four teams known to have met with him. The clubs' owners, general managers and head coaches attended the meetings with Watson, according to ProFootballTalk.com.
What the Cleveland Browns had to offer Deshaun Watson

The Browns finished last season with a disappointing record of 8-9, but Watson undoubtedly took note of their strong roster. They boast a stellar offensive line, an elite running back stable and a promising defense. Plus, they acquired four-time Pro Bowl wide receiver Amari Cooper on Saturday in a trade with the Dallas Cowboys.

Still, the Browns struck out. After placing third in the AFC North in 2021, they were fourth in the competition for Watson.

The Browns had been conducting due diligence on Watson for a while. The Seattle Seahawks, Philadelphia Eagles and Washington Commanders also did their homework on Watson, but those teams ultimately bowed out of the pursuit for a trade, USA Today reported.

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story...ency-saints-falcons-panthers/7071254001/

There's more to the article but it's basically about Baker and the Browns. But this is 100% proof that the only reason watson signed here was because Halsam pulled up the money truck. Not some strong desire by watson to be here as you propose.

For claiming you don't "make unverifiable assumptions", that's exactly what you're doing by saying he came here because he wants to be here. He came here because Haslam showed him the money. That would make me want to be here too. The most money. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I wanted to be paid as well as I could be paid for my work as well. But it is what it is. He came here for the money.

It's not an assumption. It's literally a recounting of the actual circumstances as they happened.

He agreed AFTER he turned the Browns down. He agreed to a contract AFTER they offered him the most money. Unless you know him personally every shred of evidence dictates he came here for the money. And there is NO evidence to the contrary.

This is what it looks like when someone is adamantly steadfast in refusing to say the sky is blue.

Not to poke a bee's nest as I try to leave all the Baker stuff alone these days, but if we had Baker's numbers at QB this year, we'd still be in the division race.
That said, as Flacco is now warmed up, I have to think that he will be passing up what Baker is doing.... but, he has got to cut down on the turnovers!!

Of course he wants to play for Cleveland, now. He has 230 million reasons for that.

But, if you want to believe that him refusing to even waive the no-trade clause for us means he secretly liked us, I'd say you are outright lying to yourself.
He did NOT want to be here. There is literally written record stating that he wanted to play in a warm weather city because he hates the cold. We were COMPLETELY off the table until ONE THING happened. Haslam backed up the Brinks truck.
Period. Did he then WANT to play for us? Maybe, maybe not. Did he find it agreeable to play wherever he needed to in order to put a quarter billion dollars into his bank account? Absolutely, 100%.

It is a factual account of the events. If you wish to put your head in the sand and pretend it is something it isn't, you go for it, but dude, don't insist others believe your delusion.

Dude, he REFUSED a contract with the Browns. He plainly told them they were out of the running UNTIL they coughed up more money. I posted an article that explained exactly that. What part of that are you missing? He came here for the money. That's as obvious as the nose on your face.

Also, Baker threw his temper tantrum which caused us to go hard after Watson. Otherwise, Baker would be our QB.

Probably very true, although I feel like they still would have cut ties with Baker as soon as they could. I just feel like Stefanski - for whatever reason - just did not like Baker, at all.

Baker Mayfield and Kevin Stefanski's tumultuous relationship: Report details lack of trust between Browns QB, coach in 2021
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...ip-lacked-trust/j0wajuvvbl3xhgmtwqj92d0k

After the season, the Browns began to explore other quarterback options, though maintained publicly that Mayfield was likely to be the starter in his fifth and final year under contract with Cleveland. After a report emerged the Browns wanted an "adult" at quarterback, it became more clear the team was likely not going to see him play another snap.

When the Browns traded for Deshaun Watson, who at the time faced more than 20 accusations of sexual assault and misconduct, Mayfield officially requested a trade, and later said he felt disrespected by the team.

Since this is a Flacco/Watson thread, I was thinking the other day that Watson lead two fourth quarter drives against the Ravens, including the game-winner, both in the 4th quarter. This while playing with a shoulder injury bad enough to require shoulder surgery.


This isn't meant to say Watson is better than Flacco or worse. Just food for thought when posters imply that he was only playing for money.


I think the Flacco story is great and think if it rolls along deep into the playoffs, it is like a Hollywood script.


Can we not just be happy with who we are and glad that the Jets didn't sign Flacco so he could pitch relief for us this year?

Imo, it was a personality conflict.

Agreed, completely.

Yeah, but we've got an entire 24 hours to kill between now and getting ready for the next game. We need SOMETHING to talk about...

I don't actually believe that has anything to do with the discussion at hand. The debate from my understanding is whether he came here and because he wants to be here or if the decision was based on the money. Since he turned the Browns down until they backed up the Brinks truck I think the answer to that is abundantly clear.

He was certainly playing well before his injury and it looks as if he can play well on his return. A players desire to play well can be based on different reasons or a combination of reasons. Watson is 28 and only has three years left on his contract. It would most certainly serve his self interest to play well and hopefully set himself up for another high paying long term contract. He's plenty young enough for that. So it may very well be that money is the overriding factor in his drive and determination to play well.

These guys are playing for their financial well being and to attain generational wealth. I for one don't blame them. I will not however pretend there are things higher on their priority list than that.

Yes he did

With all due respect for you with your optimism that he did and why he did is an opinion of yours that I like

I also want to point out what Purpl and Pit pointed out

They both have very good points if not considered arugments

The Biggest thing I would like to say at this time is why is there's a QB VS QB thread going on ?

Qb controversaries were a life sentance for this team since the "99" return

Watson is younger and on IR

Flacco is older and is gaming !

Maybe lets put away the who vs who now and look into how the TEAM is winning

So close to play-offs and yet bitter venom is still trying to divide

I understansd some threads are made to have good football conversations

I also understand some have other motives

This is my take

Watson was 5-1 now injured

Flacco is 2-1 and keeping the team close to a play off birth

Fingers crossed the wins keep coming and lets talk post season soon !

My money comment wasn't related to the existing money/contract conversation. It related more to the comments after the first Ravens game when it was a gametime situation and DTR was forced to start. Also another game, maybe Indy, where a few posters said he wasn't playing because he had big, guaranteed money and didn't really care fi he played.

I guess I should have been more specific.

I think the issue is the wording you both (PrP) are using that is causing the back n forth with Bone. Because I do not agree with how you both are stating about DW.

What part of it do you disagree with? My comments aren't specific to watson but more about the general reason players play the game. They play to get paid. They try and play their best to continue to be paid. I actually think they would be fools not to. You're a part of a very select group of athletes with a special and rare skill set. What kind of fool would it take to try not maximize that? While you certainly hear of the "home town discount" from time to time that often has to do with players taking into account having to uproot their families to a new location which interrupts their children's lives. Changing schools and making new friends.

So what is it about saying players sign for the money more than anything else that you disagree with?

If the owners and our FO means business and want to win at all cost then it’s time to be open minded and look for alternatives because Deshaun Watson has so far not even been worth half of the money the Browns pay Flacco, not even what Baker gets.

Flacco gives calmness and stability to the organization on and off the field contrary to our 230M signing who so far mostly creates question marks and controversies.

I will start with Prp's quote, as Bone responded to it and kind of put the wheels in motion.

I am not disagreeing with either of you about why he made his choice and the events and article you posted I shows that.

Why I said I don't agree is b/c of the wording. As Bone said, we don't know if it is 100% factual, he did not want to be here.
This is the two options to that wording:

1. He rejected our offer - he did not want to be here
2. He rejected our offer - we were not his top choice, he may have liked the organization, however warm weather, being closer to home or the south trumped. That is why he had NO, CAR, and ATL.

I am viewing this from my own experience. When I had to change duty stations, I received a list and had to rank the sites. My top 5 places were 1. FL 2. TX, 3. FL 4. TX 5. HI. I wanted warm weather and ocean/beaches. FL and TX were my top 4 b/c I can hop in my car and drive back to Ohio any time to visit family. Hawaii would've been my #1, but family rules. Long story short, Army told me I am going to HI. I love it here, I would have loved the other places. It just wasn't my top choice due to distance of parents.

Why I brought this up, the one thing missing from that article is he spent "supposedly" a few hours with Stef going through how they would utilize him. He told Stef to push him and don't hold back. Supposedly the meeting went well. However, when he made his top 3 list, warm weather, and his personal needs were why he chose them. Naturally once Cleveland made the contract offer that changed everything.

My point was just the wording: The way I am reading it come off as he didn't want any part of us, and the "only reason he is here" is b/c of money. It's just coming off to me as he's hating it here, but that money is good.

Why I am bringing the wording up: Not saying either of you are stating this, but through media and other means people are using that as another negative about him. When it is possible he is happy here and he's working just as hard as he would for the other teams he chose for his top 3.

I hope my point is clear, I am kind of multitasking right now.

My memory says that Baker didn't throw a tantrum until the Browns tried to get Watson... Then he went off on a rant.

that is correct. they told him they were going to kick the tires on Watson and he went off the grand canyon

It’s not that I dislike Watson, it’s just that he isn’t our QB. We have a new QB now. In 2024 maybe Watson will be our starter.

Think that keep Flacco in and cut/trade Watson. Watson is trying to redeem himself more off the field than on it. Flacco has revived his career here.

You are assuming he has a nose on his face.


No insult Bone, just having some fun.

To the point, at minimum it is fair to say it took a bigger carrot to change Watsons mind.

Exactly. It is a business, and it is called negotiations! Once he signs, he is a Brown.

I can understand your perspective. I also think it's not unreasonable to state that DW didn't want to come to CLE - I believe there were 5 teams interested in a trade. DW held the right to choose where he went and intially of the 5 teams he rejected CLE and told his agent to tell HOU he wouldn't accept CLE as a trade parter/option. It doesn't make him a bad person or a worse QB.

Maybe his agent was brilliant and thought that by doing that, it would make CLE drop their pants and offer the world .... that's what happened. Maybe of 32 NFL teams - CLE would be choice number 5 and it was just coincidnce that the 4 other teams were all slightly higher on his list. . . those things we don't know. What we do know - initially he "didn't want to come to CLE" and after receiving the contract offer we made, he chose to come here. I have no problem saying he didn't want to come to CLE - I think it's an accurate statement. I also think DW is professional enough and a big enough team mate that no matter his feelings before the trade/contract - he will play hard and try to win here. As you and others said - lots of players sign and play for a team based 100% on money. There are very, very few individuals who decide to take less money and play for a contender or preferred team.

I'll be honest... I find most of this thread to be ridiculous.

1. We gotta jump straight to the QB controversy while the magic of this season is going on
2. A cursory glance at the contracts given to both QBs should tell you all you need to know
3. In case anyone had doubt that this thread is complete satire, we dragged Mayfield into the convo


That said, Rish had a thought-provoking post on the first page. I want to sorta jump off that and say, if there is a comparison to be made in the same vein of this thread I think it's how Flacco was able to come in and look pretty competent and steadily improve while it took Watson forever to not look awful.

I know we have an "oil and water" effect going on with Watson and KS, but what's behind this and how do we move past that? Can Watson learn to operate better from under center? Is this a footwork issue? Flacco's biggest weapon in executing within our offense is being able to quickly diagnose defenders and put the ball where it needs to be. Watson should be able to do this.

Flacco's age means that this won't happen. He isn't a long term answer.

Watson, love him or hate him, isn't going anywhere. You don't cut someone when you still have to pay them another $150 million no matter what (not even getting into what cutting him would do to our CAP situation), and he has a No Trade clause in his contract, so he isn't going anywhere he doesn't approve of... AND we'd have to find someone willing to absorb the remainder of his deal.

All I know is that Andrew Berry looked pretty happy when it showed him up in the press box the last couple of games.

You cannot mess with the chemistry at this point. Flacco has it. You continue with him instead of going with the unknown which is Watson. That's just the way it is. If Watson doesn't like that, he is free to leave.

If the Browns are serious about winning then they will trade Watson, eat the contract, or release him outright. Who's to say if Watson comes back in, if he EVER develops the kind of chemistry we're seeing right now between the WR's and Flacco? My money is that he doesn't. I'm not willing to watch the experiment of trying to force something to make it work, let's roll with Flacco, he is the man for the foreseeable future.

Its time to have the tough conversation and stop shying away from it. Watson just hasn't worked out. Let's leave it at that. I DO NOT care if Flacco is older. If we can get multiple good seasons and potentially a super bowl, I don't care if the QB is 60 years old. For once I'd like to see the Browns do the right thing. They sure didn't with Gregg Williams.