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j/c:

I swear we've been dealing with John Dorsey, Hue Jackson, and Freddie Kitchen burner accounts the past few days.

I get the 4 QB thing everyone keeps referring to in this forum but if you were honest, 3 of the QB's were added and played only because the person in front of them sucked to high heaven. That is not uncontrollable injury but self-inflicted wounds due to not having the necessary backup quality. Actually, the Browns only had 1 QB that was injured that caused the team to go to the backup. All of the other QB's that were played was due to horrible production on the field and the Browns signing multiple players to salvage the situation. In hindsight, the reason the Browns had to use all those QB's was a poor decision made in the preseason keeping only a rookie as the backup and was compounded by another poor decision by signing PJ Walker.

The FO and Stefanski should be responsible for those errors and poor evaluation rather than commended for having to use 4 QB's. Flacco was available during June, July and August but just like with Brissett, the FO thought they could get away by going cheap and it backfired. Though it's true the Browns used 5 QB's, it was self-induced and nothing to do with the injuries the team suffered outside of Watson.

Are you so fragile and sensitive that you have to elevate yourself on internet to feel important. I hope the “victory” fits well into your trophy cabinet.

From now on I will call you the Champ or TMWKB.

The metaphor about snowflakes and lions is to simplify what kind o characters that's needed in this team. When the team chokes against the Texans questions must be asked. Why? Who? What do we need to don't end up there again?
Are you so less oriented in sports that you don't understand such simple metaphors Champ? I thought you knew it all...

Secondly stop lecture me or anybody else about something you clearly don't know.
Express your opinion and let others express theirs. Acting like you're some kind of oracle is just pathetic and childish, but hey Champ, being an internet warrior suits you well. At least you bring smiles to my day.

At the end of the day the Browns lost and they lost with a crash. Playing well in the regular season is good but when we finally get invited and the party starts our team just enter the gates before getting thrown out again. Well same old sam old..
When comparing with the other 31 NFL franchaises the Browns are one of the worst organizations, result wise, the last 20 years. Is that the definition of an organization with a winning culture? Just asking so so we're on the same page... Champ.

Trading for DSW has been so far a failure of epic proportions, what does it tells us about our FO? Next season our cap space will be limited and that will again reduce our chances to improve our results. Is that good business?

Baker was part of our first and only play off win in years and then get injured, but continued to be available and put his health on the line. His reward by Berry and Stefanski was to be kicked out of the town, Is that how you build a winning culture?
Their next move was to trade for a serial abuser with a character that has been questioned by a respected judge and for that he was suspended for more than half of the season. The next season he must go to the operation table after being used when he was not 100% fit. Another key decision that goes totally wrong, again.
Do you see a pattern?

Two seasons later The Browns are losing and Baker is flying high and wins his play off game with the Bucs, post the Tom Brady era. At the same time Stefanski use 4 different QBs, is that your definition of successful planning?

Results don't lie Champ! You win or you're out.
Guess what. The Browns supporters are once again left with zero trophy's and a disappointing end of the season game. At the same time the misfit, Baker Mayfield, is still partying under the sun in Florida with his team. Maybe it's Karma!
(and NO, I don't want him back! He's doing fine in Tampa, let him enjoy the good weather and his new upcoming contract, he's worth it)

The playoffs had a total of 14 teams make the playoffs. All of the teams except two (Browns/Steelers) started their opening day QBs for rounds one and two.

Your "questions must be asked" schtick is getting old. The FO and HC did an excellent job putting a winning product on the field and getting us to the playoffs despite a roster gutted with injuries.

Name a coach that's gotten past the first round of the playoffs with their 5th qb. Soccer coaches don't count, the NFL doesn't put you on IR for paper cuts and skeeter bites.

You need to send this post to the owner who obviously sees it a lot differently than you do since he just fired a good portion of the offensive coaches.

The Steelers started (3) QBs...made the playoffs...lost, but were competitive...they didn't spend 50+MM on a QB and didn't trade ANY draft capital to do that.

To your point, had we signed Flacco instead of PJ Walker, we wouldn't have had (4) starters (unless Flacco also got hurt)...Driskell starting against Cincy was the definition of outlier.

Both 'sides' of the argument are making good points - when not peeing in each others' Wheaties - as '23 was YET ANOTHER Browns season that ended with as many questions as answers. We've been dealing with that STR.

We still need better/tougher players - even though we've spent more $$$ than any other team in the league;

Our FO brought in the best depth that we've had STR - although still lacking;

Despite good player acquisitions, we have a glaring hole at WR after Cooper (and that since Training Camp);

Our HC managed to keep this ship afloat despite the crazy setbacks that seemed to occur every 15 minutes;

Despite that ^ and the appearance of a winning culture, most fans seem to believe the HC should hire someone to do the job that he's supposed to be the best at;

At many times, we looked the part that was our record;

We do not KNOW what we have in our starting QB come training camp - such a familiar feeling;

We do not have a #1 draft pick...again.

I'll close by saying that BOTH sides of the argument may be correct...it's not one way or the other. There are legit reasons to run it back with the same coaches (although that's already not happening) and FO...just like there are legit reasons to expect both to do/be better (in '24)...and if they don't, it's time to consider moving on. While this ^ is a ridiculously familiar feeling, it's not as gut-wrenching as it's been all too often...maybe STR.

I have zero problems with those who was on the field in Houston, contributed and gave their all.
Hats off to JOK! I have huge respect for Kareem Hunt as a RB, great character on the field. My man David Njuko and Amari Cooper also is worth a mention, really good guys. I probably forgot a few but not for a second do I blame those who showed character and fighting spirit.

The problem is Champ, they were not enough. We had players who underperformed compared to their normal ability. Maybe they where nervous, had a bad day or, maybe maybe they're chokers, personalities who crumble under pressure. (their is a great book about that written by the norwegian psychologist Willie Railo - he goes into depth with what mental pressure can do to your body and concentration - he talks about the 80% rule and how important mental preparation is for the outcome of your performance. Some are born winners/overachievers (Michael Jordan of the worlds) and other are typical 80%, their ability goes down 10-20% under pressure because of variable mental blocks)

Look at the stats Champ! C J Stroud was protected and only throw the ball half of the time than Flacco. That reduced the possibility of turnovers by 50%. The Texans also acted very smart and turned our strength (man coverage) to our weakness.
Offensively we din't produce enough. Flacco's two turnovers was a combination of being over used, bad play calling and a typical Joe Flacco performance.

I go back to what I said before Champ! Injuries is part of the game. Even if you're 100% correct about your assessment we still lost and we lost badly. That's the bottom line. Stefanski didn't have his best day, but hey I don't want him sacked because of that. The mistakes was made before the season started.

It's not about sacking the whole organization but we need to improve on certain areas. We need more players like JOK, "warriors". Stefanski has many good attributes but he also has holes in his coaching style. Our preparation against Houston is up for debate.

As much as you would like to throw shade in his direction, Stefanski has no say over who this FO signs.

You raise a stink when you claim they don't try to fix things and raise a stink when they do.

We haven't figured out what we're gong to call you yet but you can bet your ass when we do it will be a doozy.

Call him by his name -- The White Snowflake.

First of all, I'm not raising a stink, I'm using my right to comment on it. Secondly, they haven't fixed anything as of yet - they just fired 3 people that were not the decision makers. Do you honestly believe that the Browns are going to bring in a real OC, change the offense, and have Stefanski be just the HC? If not, then is current OC taking the hit for the poor QB play because he was also the QB coach? Is Stump taking the hit because Chubb got hurt and he had inferior players to coach compared to Chubb? Njoku had his first season where he lived up to expectations at least most of the year but after waiting 7 years for him to deliver they fire the TE coach? Do you honestly believe that these 3 guys were responsible for not getting to the expectation level expected? JMHO, classifying these firings as fixing things couldn't be further from the truth - their scapegoats.

Unlike yourself I'm not going to make accusations and jump to any conclusions until I see how it plays out. And second of all I'm using my right to respond to your post as I see fit. Could they? Should they? Are they? Just a lot of posturing.

Likewise, so is 2024 season Super Bowl, Conference Championship or Division Champs. Can't get any more posturing than that!

Well if not that you will be back here the same time next year whining about it.

I agree. The coach may tell the GM he needs another running back but he doesn't dictate which RB.

The coach doesn't dictate a player to be cut from the roster, but he might tell the GM he is never going to play the guy because he isn't good.

Let me ask you this Steve.

Just who stood out for us at TE the last two seasons. Who did TC coach up? Your complaining about David taking seven years well he was TE coach for 2 years and a Browns offensive assistant coach the two years before that. Who did he develop? Who did he improve?

How about Stump? I didn't want to see him go but other than Chubb and Hunt, who has he developed? Who has he made better?

AVP... well I'm biased on him. Never have been a fan of his.

When the Eagles traded in the draft to get Jalen Carter and then later acquired Swift from the Lions, "experts" said this was a near perfect team with almost no weaknesses. They really underperformed. WE were predicted to finish 4th in our division, some saying 6-7 wins max. WE win 11 with a slew of injuries and our season is a failure?

Understanding that someone lacks the ability to use the context of all that happened this season in evaluating just how successful this team was given those circumstances doesn't mean someone is sensitive or fragile. They also don't need to be a Champ to figure out such basic things.

Guess what! I agree 100%.

So let’s have a look at the Browns and what’s needed to be a SB contender..

1. Do we have an elite quarterback 2024?

My comment. First of all he has to be available. Secondly he has to be mentally stable so he can overcome being without other key players and be consistent enough to overcome bad days, lack of form or other obstacles. Right now we don’t even know what kind quality we have to our disposal when our so called franchise QB comes back. That’s the uncomfortable situation we’re dealing with no matter what kind of hopes we have.

2. Do we have enough elite wide receivers?

My comment. One good wide receiver isn’t enough and we need at least one more elite receiver who can produce similar numbers as Amari Cooper.

3. Stefanski is depending on an elite RB to fully use his whole playbook. That means that Nick Chubb need to come back to his very best when he returns. That’s an uncertainty even if I think he will be his old himself when healthy.

4. According to MKK we didn’t meet many teams with an elite QB 2023. Burrow wasn’t his old himself when we met the first time and the Niners was without Samuel the whole game and McGaffrey in the second half, that influenced the results but credit to Schwartz for almost shutting them down. The bottom line is that when we finally met Houston our defense was exposed and not as good as expected. In 2024 our schedule is harder so maybe we need to damper our expectations regarding our defense being the best unit again in 2024.

5. Our salary cap space. How will that affect us?

That’s a few concerns from my perspective.

Did you understand what this team did and what kind of schedule they actually played? They played 12 of 17 games vs teams with winning records. I don't think we should minimize what our team actually accomplished. They lost in the playoffs. It sucked but it happened. The 2023 schedule the toughest schedule this team has played. The AFC North was the first division since 1935 to have all 4 teams have winning records. They played the AFC South. Suppose to be weak right? Wrong. 3 of the 4 teams had winning records. They played the NFC West. Yes, all 4 teams had winning records in 2023.

A couple of observations:

[1] You asked me a question which I answered. But you never bothered to answer my question so I guess it didn't fit the narrative?
[2] You've frequently used managers from other sports as an example of why KS falls short ... [a] I'm not sure other sports translate well [b] Alex Ferguson was perhaps the best club soccer manager in history - certainly of the Premiership, so hardly a fair comparison [c] Alex Ferguson's heyday was 3 deades ago ... what he did and how he bullied and treated players wouldn't be tolerated today. [d] Ferguson had an absolutely amazingly talented team.
[3] If you want to feel as if this season was a disappointment - have at it. But don't lecture any other more rationael person(s) and fan(s) who recognize how amazing it was for many reasons.

Sorry but I think I didn't saw your answer or I forgot about it. My bad. I has no intention whatsoever to shy away from critical questions or those with other views. Totally my fault.

You learn by being observant and learn from other greats, it can be head coaches in American football, or managers from other sports.


Secondly I don't want lecture anybody! Absolutely not but being respectful goes two ways. You give and take with similar acceptance. Maybe it's a culture thing because where I live we often use lots of sarcasm and reverse answers when we think something goes without saying. I deeply apologize if I have offended someone because that was not my intention. I realize now that critizising this organisation is a sensitive subject where strong emotions is involved and maybe now is not the right time. My bad.

Off subject.
The reason Sir Alex was so successful was because he evolved with time. His way of manage his team in 1999 was not the same as when he retired. In his last season he was like a old grandfather who took care of his grand children, it's hard to describe for someone without children and grandchildren because getting softer in certain areas comes with experience and a bigger understanding of humans and life in general. He retired as a manager in 2013 after his 13 PL title when his wife Cathy lost her sister and she felt alone. That's how a gentleman with principles handle life when something unexpected happen. The younger generation probably laugh but part of his success was his strong beliefs of principles and high standard, and that followed him all the way until today. Now at 80 years of age he's a senior adviser to his former club.

Maybe evolving with time is why Stefanski has gotten so much better as well.

I certainly agree with you. I've often seen the argument that continuity is the biggest answer to everything. But I have never bought into that idea. If you have the wrong people at the helm no amount of time will change that. Continuity in and of itself is not the answer to a problem. In looking back at all of the men who were HC's here since 1999 before Stefanksi, none have accomplished anything that can convince me that sticking with any of them for the sake of continuity would have yielded good results.

That list consists of Chris Palmer, Butch Davis, Romeo Crennel, Eric Mangini, Pat Shurmur, Rob Chudzinski, Mike Pettine, Hue Jackson and Freddie Kitchens. Of course there was Gregg Williams as an interim HC.

Just reading that list makes me throw up in my mouth just a little bit.

But Stefanski is certainly different IMO. While Rome wasn't built in a day it's obvious to me that construction is moving along nicely and nearing completion. That's something completely different than anything I've seen here since 1999.

In European soccer there’re mostly two sorts of successful managers. Those who have their own philosophy and those who’re pragmatic and adapt to their players and other circumstances.

Jürgen Klopp/Liverpool and Pep Guardiola/ManCity has their own philosophy that they build their team around. The way they play is their strongest part and the backbone of their success. Either it’s TikiTaka or Heavy Metal football. On the other side of the spectrum you José Mourinho and probably in the middle you have Carlo Ancelotti and Zenadine Zidane. Two great man managers whose biggest strengths , apart from being great tacticians, is to handle stars and water carrier and make them work together.

In American football I think it’s similar. If I generalize a bit then Bill Belichick is probably the pragmatist and Kyle Shanahan is leaning more to being a philosoph coach. Please correct me if that’s a wrong take.

The question I have is if Stefanski is a pragmatist or a coach with a strong philosophy?

My take on this is that an organization on their way up benefits more from having a clear and obvious philosophy than having a pragmatist as a HC. Why’s that? Developing a functional system takes time. You need players with a special skill set on most key positions. You need that a the almost all in the roster buy into that philosophy and accepts that the system in the star of the game, not individuals. That takes time but the benefits is that the system isn’t hanging on one individual player. Another benefit is that the transition from one star player to another is much smoother. A organization like the Browns who operate in a small market need a better ratio of success when trading/draft then an established organization who operate in a bigger market. That’s why a philosophy based system is easier to sustain than a pragmatic system built around certain players.

When we trade for a specific type of QB like Watson we need to ask ourselves what kind of system, philosophy, that suits his game most. That means that we have to adapt our system, philosophy, to him and not the other way around. Is he gets injured or the deal doesn’t work we have to change parts of our offensive line if we change quarterback. Like when Flacco arrived after Watson got injured. Almost same players but a different outcome.

I hope Stefanski and Berry are strong enough to believe in their own ideas, philosophy, and draft/trade players from that perspective. I’m not sure if they had this in mind when Watson become available and maybe that’s why we have to change our OC and so on. I have fears that Stefanski will realize this problem later down the road and have to adapt to his QB instead vice verse. Maybe I’m totally wrong but that’s my interpretation of the situation.

He is currently overhauling his offensive staff to help tailor the offense around watson's strengths. So I'm not sure why this is even a question at this point. And considering the fact that he is doing this, if you are willing to digest that fact, what conclusion do you come to?

It’s the only way, but the downside of doing that is that you put all the eggs in the same basket.

To succeed Stefanski needs to hold the power by an iron fist. Letting any sort of power heading to Watson could end up in a disaster, both for him personally and the team. Let’s say that we don’t live up to expectations and we’re out of the playoff picture already in end of November. On one side you have a guaranteed $60M QB and on the other side you have less expensive parts of the team.

I think Kevin can do it (keeping power) and implement his or his OC ideas the right way but he needs to be careful so the history of Watson in Houston don’t repeat itself. As soon as the sh*t hit the fan everyone is on their own.