DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Clearing The Air On RAC

Hello!

Now that all of the nicities and greetings are over, let's get to the thrux of it.......................

First of all, this season began with a great amount of uncertainty and turmoil. RAC's decision making and calls looked quite suspect at best. And I asserted then, just as I assert now, that had he not gotten ahold of things by the bye, we should make a coaching move.

It was my belief, as it is now that we had the TALENT to win eight to ten games IF they were coached properly.

I will admit that I did not think RAC could coach them "up to their ability". I saw Brady Quinn "waiting in the wings" and did not want to see an oppertunity for this team to "be a dynasty" squandered with a guy who could not get the full potential out of his players. Who was not making sound decisions.

So my theory was to "give him untill the bye week" to see how it panned out. My expectations weren't much from him. But WITH this talent, it was time to win NOW"!

I predicted we would win 6-8 games. Six being more realistic. Why? Not because we lacked the talent, but because I didn't think RAC was capable of coaching the team up to their potential.

And while many seem to be discouraged by not making the playoffs, I'm on the other end of that spectrum. What good would it have done? IMO? It would have been counterproductive. We are NOT a "playoff caliber team". We would have been CRUSHED by the Pats or Indy........

It may have even been destructive to the point of creating an atmosphere where our players may have believed that "they've arrived". That this team was "all that and a bag of chips". A false sense of ability, accomplishment and false security. They're not quite "there YET!"



By NOT making the playoffs, there will still be that hunger. They will feel there is "much left to be proven". And that my fellow posters is the hunger I WANT them to have going into the 08 season.



RAC has proven IMO, that given the talent, he can get the production needed to win out of those players.

I said it then (even though it seemed nobody believed it) and I'll say it now, the BEST thing for our Browns was for RAC to succeed. And I would say without a DL and a suspect secondary, with a mediocre QB, I couldn't have asked for more!

It was "my hope" that he would succeeed, but my expectations were that he would fail. I am one damned happy Browns fan to say I was wrong in that regard.

So it will be but a short time in the grand scheme of things, that we can restock the cupboards, reload and come out with an even BETTER Cleveland Browns in 08! Yes, we still have issues, but after this year, winning with many questionable areas yet to be addressed, I see nothing but the brightest future for our team!

The playoffs can be a blassing, but it can also be a curse. I think Indy will sub early and often giving the Titans a victory. But would you rather our Browns come out confident and cocky next year? Or hungry to prove their worthiness?

Sorry, but I KNOW we're not SB contenders. So I'll take the hungry bunch with something to prove...............

JMHO

Way to man up.

I hope if I'm ever wrong about anything I'll have the balls to say it as you just did.

Well, when you're wrong, you're wrong. In this case, I'm GLAD I was wrong!

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And while many seem to be discouraged by not making the playoffs, I'm on the other end of that spectrum. What good would it have done?

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I think we'll have a good chance to win a first rd game,...especially if we play Pitt.Beating Pitt in the P/O's for our last victory would be HUGE for the confidence of this team.

I guess my thinking on this is with a young, talented group like we have, I don't want them getting the "big head" and thinking they've "arrived" when in reality, they are just now getting their boarding pass.

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they are just now getting their boarding pass.

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Well,..if they hurry,..they just might be able to catch that last train.

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And while many seem to be discouraged by not making the playoffs, I'm on the other end of that spectrum. What good would it have done? IMO? It would have been counterproductive. We are NOT a "playoff caliber team". We would have been CRUSHED by the Pats or Indy........

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1. We have not been eliminated from playoff contention yet.

2. We will not play the Colts or Pats. We will have to play the Chargers if the Titans lose.

Pitdawg, for the most part I more often then not find myself in agreement with you, I am shocked and somewhat suprised that you were a throw RAC under the bus guy. I thought wrongly that you were quite a bit smarter then that. It just goes to show you can't judge a book by it's cover.

If you honest to God thought that the Browns should win 6 to eight games, again I think you were expecting to much. Yup it's easy now to look back and see where those wins were going to come from. But prior to the season, and looking at our schedule how could anyone actually believe we would win 6-8 games. It was but a fantasy prior to the season beginning. I had many a heated talk about where those wins where likely to come from. In fact I challenged people to point out the wins. Hell I went so far as to say, show me a game in which the Browns will be favored. Nobody could or would point out those wins, or for that matter the games in which the Browns would be favored. It turns out I was dead wrong the wins where in fact there. Having said that tho a lot of things went the Browns way. The Ravens went from a top of the heep team to bottom of the heep team, gives us 2 wins there. The Cincy fell on their face gives us another win there. Then Miami hits the skids, and the Rams, and the Jets, well a lot of teams that where thought to be good fell on their faces, and at the same time we did make improvements to our talent, not enough, but enough to get us past the bad teams, soemthing that we have struggled to do. In fact we were one of the bad teams.

Now the playoff thing !! How can making the playoffs be bad. Generally speaking young teams that make the playoffs don't do well. They lack the experience to excell. But also generally speaking they learn from their loses, and return commited to improving to the point of taking better advantage of their success. Sorry I absolutely totally disagree with the idea that the team would benefit from NOT making the playoffs. No, what making it will do is gain them valuable experience, that will serve them well later win, lose, or draw. This team whether they make the playoffs or not is going to come in hungry next season, and making the playoffs will not effect that no matter what.. The idea your putting out there is not well thought out IMHO.

The last part about RAC, I would agree you were wrong, and there are still those that have yet to come forward and admit that as the talent improves so will the win total. So I praise your coming forward.

I have said this so many times, talent leads the way at the NFL level. Yes that talent has to be used properly, it has to be developed properly, and brought along properly in order to become top talent. But, I saw RAC stick to his guns in every instance when it came to young players. He doesn't play players until they are ready to have success. I agree with his doing what he thinks is best, its hard to argue with the results he has gottin from our young players. He in every instance has played guys only when they are ready. Thats a credit to him, because the clueless hord is always screaming for what they don't have, and he has never given in, that I can remember. That was key to the progress of the team. You can do far more harm to young talent by playing them when their not ready then you ever will by using caution.

The #1 reason that I have always supported RAC was because players play hard for him, and they respect him. That is the most important thing. Do the players support, respect, and play hard for the coach? If the answer to those questions are yes, you got yourself a good coach. When you look at the franchises that have success, you don't see teams that change coaches, you see teams that change players. The coach doesn't miss tackles. The coach doesn't jump offsides or drop a pass, or throw interceptions. If RAC were a coach that came here with no NFL background I might have agreed with those that called for his head. But RAC built the NE defense, and they were and are a talented group. And he has come up with some of the best game plans ever on the defensive side of the ball. He understands the 3-4 defense as well if not better then any coach in football, and he understands how to develop talented players. No he wasn't a offensive guy, but he has always been a guy who players played hard for. I am certain he has learned quite a bit, but anybody who thought that the Browns could win 10 games if the players where coached properly is nuts. Pretty much everything that could go right, had to go right in order for that to happen. And as luck would have it, most every issue we had going in has turned out better then we could have ever reasonably hoped.

What happened this season is this, teams that where thought to be good turned out to be bad, and we where able to take advantage, period. Will get better as the talent gets better, and hopefully everyone knows that much now. Our problems aren't coming from the coaching staff, our problems are coming from players that lack talent. I wouldn't expect that the next time that the team has problems that the throw RAC under the bus crowd won't step forward, because they most certainly will. I will say this tho, learn from the past, firing coaches almost never turns a team around and takes them from being a loser to being a winner. Generally it takes better talent. Once you have the talent then fans have every right to expect results, until then they need to be patient, and Browns fans ( I include myself) suck at being patient. This is one instance where patients and continued patients will pay off big time for the Browns and us as fans, so remain patient would be my advise, where closing the gap..

MHO

Brown to the Bone

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By NOT making the playoffs, there will still be that hunger. They will feel there is "much left to be proven". And that my fellow posters is the hunger I WANT them to have going into the 08 season.

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Did u smash your head on the windshield on your way down 235???

Making the playoffs THIS year would be a HUGE denominator for these pups...

It's a pretty solid historical FACT that past Champs have had at least one year of a short playoff run prior to getting to any Championship game...Conference or Bowl...A playoff game would be HUGE...And a loss in one would leave a cocka taste in their mouths to come back HARD in 08...

We blew a shot at the Division Title and a HOME Playoff game Sunday...Way 2 go Anderson...But to even BE in that position come game 15 is huge...Now we need help...And I don't think Tenn can beat Indy even if Manning & Co. sit after 1 quarter...

As far as Pitt is concerned...We get in we'll be the #6 seed...If San Diego beats Oakland we go out West...IF Oakland pops them and Pitt wins...We go to PITT...Tell me that wouldn't be HUGE for these guys...

It's time to change the face of the AFC North...We had a chance in that 2nd Pitt game and blew it...Week 15 we were still alive for a shot at taking the Division from them...We go into a playoff game and POP EM' and u can say right there the face of the North has changed in favor of the Browns...

These guys will go in there and wanna WHIP THEIR COLLECTIVE ASSES!!!!!!!!!

OK THEN,,,,

I've taken you off ignore,, You have admitted you were wrong, something I might add, I didn't think you would do.. but you did..

I hope you're not going to post a "I admit I was wrong "every time you are wrong. Im afraid my computer might blow up.

While this would be a great place to say we told you, it's not.
Props to you for admiting you were wrong.
However, some of us were wrong too.
In our excitement to prove we were right, we overlooked that is some instances you may have been and still might be right.

While at this point RAC seems to be the man for the job, as the team improves, he must also.
As the team gets better, wins get tougher, he must step up what has been a shakey learning process.
He must learn the right times to suggest to the OC and DC that maybe they need to adjust their gameplan. ie: I feel we could have won against CInn if we had stuck with JL.

All and all, I hope you have taken the time to just enjoy the ride, without frustration.

Great post, I have a newly found respect for your posts , even if you have the word Pitt in your username.

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How did you know he wrote this if he was on Ignore???

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Because I took him off ignore early today and noticed his post,,,

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Awesome post; very insightful..the jury is still out on RAC, as it should be.

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Geez, what's a guy gotta do so that the Jury is no longer out on him

I'll go with BE SUCCESFUL OVER TIME ....

I have said all along we need to see how he does OVER TIME with SOME TALENT ... this year when EVERYTHING BROKE RIGHT for us he did a decent job ... we'll learn alot more about him over the next year or two ....

its funny ... last year I was defending him with the menZas like Peenie that wanted him lynched .... now this year I'm going to be tempering the unearned praise he's going to get from menZas like U ..

THE JURY IS STILL OUT .... AS IT SHOULD BE .... well at least for those with a clue ...

Pit ... what did u do .. leave the lynching to Peenie while your doing re-con as an undercover agent ...

MERRY X-MAS MY FRIEND ... I hope all is well ...

Well, how about getting the team ready for big games? Better clock management? The players like him and thats a plus, but we still lack the killer instinct.

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I'm going to be tempering the unearned praise he's going to get from menZas like U ..

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That's a dumb comment,,, somehow you think you can read my mind and see into the future as to what I will or will not say about RAC...

I don't think the Jury is out on RAC,, I think it's pretty clear he's a good coach.. What I don't know is if he'll ever be a GREAT coach..

He's starting to get some real honest to goodness talent on this team and he seems to get thier attention and keep it..

He also appears to be honest to a fault.. and after Butch Davis, you'd think that every Browns fan would approve of that.

Unlike one of his mentors, you don't see RAC belittle his players in the press. Even when they deserve it!

All of that, and with a win on Sunday, we'll have double digits in the win column for the first time since 1994.

Those are a few of the positives,,, but I gotta stay balanced... someone needs to get this man a watch... he needs to manage the game and the clock better. Sometimes his in-game decisions are baffleing.

Sometimes I get the feeling that he let's his DC and OC make those decisions.. sometimes I think he makes them all.. I really don't know which it is, but help is needed.

So yeah, I like what most of what I see and as long as I see that kinda performance and continued progress, I'll be glad he's the coach... what's wrong with that.

Nice post

Man... after the way you took me to task early in the season, I just gotta wonder...

...how many keystrokes could I have saved if I had just waited a couple months? (hehehe)

Glad to have you on board, Pit. If you're really sold on Romeo, you'll no doubt fight as hard FOR him as hard as you against us. That would be cool to see, 'cause you damn near wore me out!

My observation has been that RAC was learning right along with his players. Like B2dB said, the biggest issue for a HC is how he's regarded by his players. Many other things can be either strengths or weaknesses, but this one aspect is paramount. We've all seen RAC learning on the job over the past 2 years, and I think still he has upside that can be developed further. His weak points have been well-documented here on the boards, so I won't rehash then now... suffice it to say that I still see room for improvement... but I see no reason to believe that he won't keep getting better. As he does (along with the team), I can only see good things for our favorite team.

Way to man up, Pit. It's a very cool thing to see.

.02

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That's a dumb comment,,, somehow you think you can read my mind and see into the future as to what I will or will not say about RAC...

I don't think the Jury is out on RAC,, I think it's pretty clear he's a good coach.. What I don't know is if he'll ever be a GREAT coach..

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*LOL^ ... did u read what I said .. where did I say GREAT COACH was the standard .. i said the JURIES STILL OUT and menZas like U would need to brought back in line for heaping praise on him ..... U then call my statement dumb and act like I'm Miss Cleo or sumptin .. then U go on to say as far as your concerned the JURY IS IN .. guess maybe I am Miss Cleo ..

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He's starting to get some real honest to goodness talent on this team and he seems to get thier attention and keep it..

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I been preaching the TALENT THING forever ...

he keeps their attention???

1. WIPPIE DOO ....
2. its been an ENTIRE YEAR ... talk to me in 2 or 3 years ..

NEXT YEAR will tell me alot more about RAC than this year did .. and the jury can start deliberating at that point ... then the followin year we can start to draw conclusions ..

so far all hes proven is that he wasn't standing over the victim with blood all over him and the knife in his hand as hes pulling it out of his chest ..

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He also appears to be honest to a fault.. and after Butch Davis, you'd think that every Browns fan would approve of that.

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I LOVE IT ... but what the hell does that have to do with the price of tea in china .. his players being able to trust him is GREAT .. but its just one piece of a HUGE ASS PUZZLE ...

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Unlike one of his mentors, you don't see RAC belittle his players in the press. Even when they deserve it!

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U mean his mentor that has won multiple SB's and took another team to one and ALWAYS LEAVES PLACES WAY BETTER THAN WHEN HE GOT THERE??

U mean the SURE FIRE FIRST BALLOT HOF mentor of his???

GOOD SOLID POINT THERE ... *LOL* ..

I am glad he doesn't belittle players in public .. thats another GOOD THING and part of the reason his players like playing for him .... but his MENTOR was VERY VERY SUCCESFUL when he whacked his players in public .. he knew who would and wouldn't respond to it ..

Good God man .. I have no idea what your point even was with this one .. do we not want RAC to be as succesful as his mentor??

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All of that, and with a win on Sunday, we'll have double digits in the win column for the first time since 1994.

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Oh .. so he must be a good HC ... lets cal the jury in after opening arguments and the prosecution has called its first witness ...

lets ignore the fact that of those 10 wins only 1 of those teams has a winning record at the current time ... why would i not proffess to be good .... well other than the fact that I have a clue ..

why did I KNOW U just wouldn't get it ...

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now this year I'm going to be tempering the unearned praise he's going to get from menZas like U ..

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This is the comment I felt was DUMB,, Unless of course you can read my mind and know what I'm gonna think about RAC in the future... Hell I don't even know that..

So to make that idiotic comment is DUMB.

You got a comprehension problem or what?

Sorry, but I don't buy all the psychological stuff about being more hungry next year. The average team turns over a third of their roster every year. Players are under pressure to perform to get paid and stay in the league. Their every movement on the field is evaluated. There is no hiding from the camera. The strongest motivator is fear of failure, and the next paycheck.

Win now. Get into the playoffs. Go as far as you can. Next year is a brand new game. There are so many factors that determine the outcome of a season that coaches preach not just one game at a time but one play at a time. You are trying to attach way to much significance to things that are way over the players short term goals. Once the season is gone, so does the players memory. They have plenty on their personal plates to worry about being hungry or cocky. Once a new season begins the last thing to cross their minds is the season past.

I wondered what had happened to you after that LLLOOONG hiatis U took..
Coma? Deep sleep...

Interesting..when you decide you were going to be patient with Rac?
When they won their 8th game?
I tried to tell you to not get worked up over the stuff in TC ..and let it play out..
But...

U did a long time bashing of him..and saying I was trying to defend him endlessly , when all I was trying to do was be objective about him..
I still at this point don't know how good of a head coach he can be..
He's obviously matured this season and there are still things I know he needs to do..so next season will be key..

It was "my hope" that he would succeeed, but my expectations were that he would fail

If you actually ever posted you hope he would succeed it was after all the RAC CANNOT BE A HEAD COACH and DOESN'T KNOW whats he's doing posts...
Interesting..Pit...I wonder when you'll turn and start firing salvos at him again...and while I might be teasing you..but I can't but feel if something goes wrong you'll be behind the bazooka again..

My opinion of RAC has changed very little. He has avoided doing anything majorly idiotic over the last few weeks but that doesnt make him a good head coach. The talent has improved our schedule was the weakest we may ever see. Lets face it the only good team we beat all year was an injury plagued Seahawks team.

I still have a lot of the same concerns. Discipline, focus, ability to put away teams that you should, defensive decisions at the end of games. Next year we should know a great deal more than we do now.

It was logical for me to say Tucker wasn't versitile UNTIL he had played the position and I saw his production...
Which BTW I commented on in the appropiate thread..not apologizing for that...if I said he'd NEVER PLAY IT WELL..U'd have me...but that would be dumb since I and a few others actually wanted the guy to play RG before TC started..
Hehe..bash you??
Dude the reason I'm giving you a hard time was the way you were saying I was a RAC apologist..and you were having nothing to do with wanting to see things in a different light..
U were very obstinate in wanting the guy gone...

You need to go back into the archives and take a look.

ALL I EVER said was "If we DON'T see improvement with this team by the bye week, we need to make a change.

Of course you don't "recall" that part at all do you?



AND I professed that "The best thing for the Browns would be IF he can succeed."

Did I lambaste him for "coin gate"? Yes I did. And I STILL DO! It was moronic as hell. Did I criticize him for the QB debacle and being indecisive? Yes I did. And under those same circumstances? I'd do it again.

Like I said, nobody bats 1000. RAC started out shakey this year.

BTW- You either thought he was versitale enough to play G or you didn't. You didn't. And I be;lieve Tucker HAD played RG before.


I'm trying to set an example for you as to how to man up and admit when you're wrong. I was wrong about RAC being able to get this team to improve and play to its potential.

You were wrong about Tucker. I manned up. You?

Look in the archives yourself.I believe you were calling for his head long before the bye week..plus the other stuff you and others were piling on him about..

ALL I EVER said was "If we DON'T see improvement with this team by the bye week, we need to make a change.Of course you don't "recall" that part at all do you?

Oh yes, BUT IT'S NOT ALL YOU EVER SAID...
And coin gate still didn't do anything but make me laugh..and if I recall, you wanted him gone for that..

You either thought he was versitale enough to play G or you didn't. You didn't. And I believe Tucker HAD played RG before.

Tucker never played RG with the Browns..and I believe he played RT with the Rams entirely.
Yet people were saying he played RT/RG and center ..GMAB...

There is something about you that is funny at times..
I said I wouldn't call him versitile until I could see it in regular season games..how hard is that to understand?
I can now say he is versitile..

I thought Tuckers skillset would be a better fit at RT than RG, BUT did that mean because I felt it that he could actually do it?
It was the same as Shaffer...I didn't know if he could play even RT...it seem logical for him to move there.
But no one knew if either player would produce at the new position.

So what would you have said about him if he played poorly at RG???

What would I have said?

That it didn't make sense. He's played LT, C, RT...............

Both of the T positions take a far more athletic player. Playing G should be easy for a guy with the attributes to play T. As a matter of fact, MOST players that played at T in the NCAA end up being NFL G's. Why? Because they're not good enough to be NFL T's. And the FACT that he'd already played LT,RT and C, means he was already "versitale".

Of course some people NEVER admit when they were wrong. But you'll have that from time to time...................





BTW- You "recall" wrong.

Here we go again...
O.k..he played LT and center at TCU before he was drafted in 1997...
He played RG one game in 98...then started at RT in 99 after playing mostly ST's prior to that ..and has played RT ever since...till this season..
U're right he's versitile.. what was I thinking..

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Well that's a good thing for you.
Because you've been missing out on a lot of insightfull football information and education in the mean time!

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Nah,, I still got all of Ammo's posts

This is only hispeed and with lots of memory; sheesh need a Cray supercomputer if you are gonna make this a habit! JustBkiddin!
I want the post-season. Get us there!