Interesting hire considering the Bills fired him midseason and improved offensively.
Improved some. Their passing game was more hit and miss, but they did start running the ball more. Stephon Diggs was trash once Joe Brady took over.
The big difference was that Brady had Allen running A LOT more. It helps the offense stay in the field, but I'm not sure sending your prized franchise QB into the fray to get hit is better in the long run.
That's a good point. I remember noticing early on in the season that they had a lot less designed runs with Allen, and figured they were trying to transition him more into a pass-first style QB, somewhat similar to what the Ravens have done. Pass first, but big threat to run. Definitely led to a lot more 3 and outs.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
Bingo - look at Allen's rushing numbers last year (2022) and this year post-Dorsey - about the same - and their offense was much improved. Then look at numbers 1st half this year - he ran a lot less.
Allen ran a lot less because they were concerned about injuries. When they realized that approach resulted in more turnovers and less efficiency - Dorsey was to blame and shown the door. Brady goes back to what worked well (ie. lots more Josh running) and voila, the offense significantly improved.
With Dorsey, I expect we will see the type of O we were supposed to see last year. Time to move in to 21st century football since a quarter of the century is nearly over.
The level of QB play in Cleveland will be a factor...
Really?? I think the level of play is important in any city with a football team.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
It does not matter the team, no matter if it is the head coach or the OC. I have listened to fans bitch about play calling for as long as I have watched football.
The reason is because it is the simplest thing to look at when a play fails. Every fan can say "look what a dumb play call."
Plays to run against a team are decided during the week. The game plan is formulated by the HC and OC for the offense if the HC is an offensive guy. The DC has his plan unless the HC is a defensive guy. Often the first series is scripted. Sometimes the first few series.
Then there are in game adjustments that can take place.
If you dislike a HC and he calls the plays. There is the target. When the OC calls the plays and the team struggles. Fire the OC is the call.
When a HC is out coached in a game. It is not because of play calling. It is because the other HC had a better plan. It may be a great defensive plan. It may be a better way to attack a defense.
KS is a good HC. He calls a good game. When I saw him out coached it was because the other team had a great plan against us.
The Ravens game plan against KC was horrible. They played into the strength of the KC defense. KC had five DB's most of the game. Monken kept throwing deep from shotgun. Not Lamar's game and into what KC does best. If the Ravens would have run the ball using Lamar running. They would have won the game.
Dorsey has experience with mobile qbs. He should be able to help DW and hopefully help in game planning that is where games are won and lost.
For stefanski this is the perfect hire. Dorsey was fired as offensive coordinator in Buffalo. So stefanski can justify not giving up playcalling responsibility to someone who was fired as a offensive coordinator that called plays in Buffalo
Last edited by slick; 01/29/2409:00 PM.
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
I'm still trying to get past the fact that we hired an OC that couldn't get the job done with Josh Allen and Stefon Diggs......and as soon as he left that team turned the corner and was playing at an elite level. Say what you want about the stats and nuances, but that's a big solid fact staring us in the face.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
After all is said and done, those responsible for hiring Dorsey should be judged based on the performance of the 2024 Browns offense.
If Dorsey is able to produce an offense that gels with Watson's talent and the offense thrives and produces enough points to win...the fans will be satisfied.
IMO, the Browns fan base is worried about a repeat of history, when the Browns were knocking on the door of success making the playoffs in 2020 and defeating the Steelers in the wildcard game. The Browns followed that brief period of success during the 2020 season with two seasons of failure, with the Browns unable to qualify for the playoffs in 2021 and 2022.
The Browns fan-base does not want to see a repeat of the "one step forward, two steps back" period of time when the Browns missed qualifying for the playoffs in 2021 and 2022.
Winning enough games to qualify for the Playoffs in 2024 should be the #1 priority.
I'm still trying to get past the fact that we hired an OC that couldn't get the job done with Josh Allen and Stefon Diggs......and as soon as he left that team turned the corner and was playing at an elite level. Say what you want about the stats and nuances, but that's a big solid fact staring us in the face.
This.
There is gobs and gobs of spin going on around this hire. Hopefully it works out. We’ll know about December of this year.
I'm still trying to get past the fact that we hired an OC that couldn't get the job done with Josh Allen and Stefon Diggs......and as soon as he left that team turned the corner and was playing at an elite level. Say what you want about the stats and nuances, but that's a big solid fact staring us in the face.
Honestly, I think the biggest problem with the offense during Buffalo's "bad stretch" was that the defense struggled to get the offense back on the field. They gave up early leads and then Josh got caught trying to play hero ball while trying to come back from behind. Unfortunately, when losing, teams frequently have to take more chances to get back into games.
You can call plays a lot more conservatively when playing with a lead.
Hopefully, our defense will be dominating and we can play from in front. It really does make an OC's job much easier.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I'm still trying to get past the fact that we hired an OC that couldn't get the job done with Josh Allen and Stefon Diggs......and as soon as he left that team turned the corner and was playing at an elite level. Say what you want about the stats and nuances, but that's a big solid fact staring us in the face.
This.
There is gobs and gobs of spin going on around this hire. Hopefully it works out. We’ll know about December of this year.
Stefon Diggs receiving yardage went in the toilet once Brady took over. Diggs averaged an abysmal 43.1yds/game and not a single 100+ yard game with Brady as OC. Diggs also had 0 TDs.
Under Dorsey Diggs averaged 86.8yds/game and five 100+ yards games including seven TDs.
How the hiring of Dorsey turns out remains to be seen.
Clearly Dorsey has the qualifications to be a OC.
Personality wise Dorsey is a tightly wound guy. Intense seems to be a good description.
He knows quarterbacks. He should be able to work with DW. Was DW in on his hiring? They are going to have to work together.
IMO play design will change. I expect more shotgun and more motion. Route trees combination may change. Rub routes have become a staple in the NFL The receiver room has to change.
One thing I think Buffalo did when they fired Dorsey was pivot from a long-term vision in order to achieve short-term gains, because there was a huge sense of urgency to "win now."
I think they were trying to transition Allen into more of a passing threat who could run if necessary, vs a QB who was a threat for a QB draw on any given play. To Dorsey's credit, the passing game did a lot better under him, minus the glaring turnovers, and the bottom-line win percentage. Dorsey seemed to stick with that construct through thick and thin, even post-meltdown when he was in the booth.
When the team pivoted to "win now, or else" he was on the outs. There was no long term vision for transitioning Allen's skills at that point because they just wanted to make the dang playoffs.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
One thing I think Buffalo did when they fired Dorsey was pivot from a long-term vision in order to achieve short-term gains, because there was a huge sense of urgency to "win now."
I think they were trying to transition Allen into more of a passing threat who could run if necessary, vs a QB who was a threat for a QB draw on any given play. To Dorsey's credit, the passing game did a lot better under him, minus the glaring turnovers, and the bottom-line win percentage. Dorsey seemed to stick with that construct through thick and thin, even post-meltdown when he was in the booth.
When the team pivoted to "win now, or else" he was on the outs. There was no long term vision for transitioning Allen's skills at that point because they just wanted to make the dang playoffs.
Hmmm, don't you think he's going from the pot into the fire then? Afterall, it probably goes without saying that 2024 for the Browns is also going to be a "win now, or else."
One thing I think Buffalo did when they fired Dorsey was pivot from a long-term vision in order to achieve short-term gains, because there was a huge sense of urgency to "win now."
I think they were trying to transition Allen into more of a passing threat who could run if necessary, vs a QB who was a threat for a QB draw on any given play. To Dorsey's credit, the passing game did a lot better under him, minus the glaring turnovers, and the bottom-line win percentage. Dorsey seemed to stick with that construct through thick and thin, even post-meltdown when he was in the booth.
When the team pivoted to "win now, or else" he was on the outs. There was no long term vision for transitioning Allen's skills at that point because they just wanted to make the dang playoffs.
Hmmm, don't you think he's going from the pot into the fire then? Afterall, it probably goes without saying that 2024 for the Browns is also going to be a "win now, or else."
No, he's going from the soup line to the kitchen. He went from unemployed to lateral move.
If he goes from "can't stand the heat" to "baby it's cold outside"... again... that's on him.
Afterall, it probably goes without saying that 2024 for the Browns is also going to be a "win now, or else."
Do you mean "win it all now or else"? Because they just had a good season making the playoffs with an injury list that made the roster look like a hospital ward. You don't count that as winning?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I'm still trying to get past the fact that we hired an OC that couldn't get the job done with Josh Allen and Stefon Diggs......and as soon as he left that team turned the corner and was playing at an elite level. Say what you want about the stats and nuances, but that's a big solid fact staring us in the face.
Don't know if this helps as all, but today I read a statistical fact sheet that disputes that thinking. Not sure you'd agree..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
One thing I think Buffalo did when they fired Dorsey was pivot from a long-term vision in order to achieve short-term gains, because there was a huge sense of urgency to "win now."
I think they were trying to transition Allen into more of a passing threat who could run if necessary, vs a QB who was a threat for a QB draw on any given play. To Dorsey's credit, the passing game did a lot better under him, minus the glaring turnovers, and the bottom-line win percentage. Dorsey seemed to stick with that construct through thick and thin, even post-meltdown when he was in the booth.
When the team pivoted to "win now, or else" he was on the outs. There was no long term vision for transitioning Allen's skills at that point because they just wanted to make the dang playoffs.
I agree. Someone hit the panic button at the top and the coach had to hit the eject button.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Former Browns QB Derek Anderson confident Ken Dorsey will excel as offensive coordinator
Chris Easterling Akron Beacon Journal Published 12:40 p.m. ET Jan. 30 2024
Ken Dorsey was the new kid in the quarterback room for the Browns when Derek Anderson first met him.
The Browns had just traded Trent Dilfer to the San Francisco 49ers in May, 2006. Cleveland got back a third-round pick and Dorsey, a quarterback who'd played in 11 games with 10 starts in his three season in the Bay Area.
Anderson was still backing up Charlie Frye at the time. However, in Dorsey — like him, a West Coast native — the big-armed quarterback found a sounding board.
"He got there and he really became a guy that I just felt comfortable bouncing things off," Anderson recalled Tuesday in a interview with the Beacon Journal from his Scottsdale, Ariz., home. "In the meetings and stuff, he brought up tons of good points, and as kind of the offseason progressed, I realized he was a great resource for me. (Then-quarterbacks coach Rob Chudzinski) encouraged it and he helped me a ton in the offseason studies and just things that we were doing and I really was fond of what he was telling me."
If you're looking for the origin story for Dorsey's rise from NFL backup quarterback to quarterbacks coach to offensive coordinator, it might as well start in the three seasons he spent as the Browns' No. 3 quarterback. Now, 16 years after he last played in Cleveland, Dorsey is returning there to be its new offensive coordinator.
At multiple steps along the journey, Anderson has been there as well. He was already with the Carolina Panthers in 2013 when Dorsey was hired as the quarterbacks coach, his first NFL coaching job.
Likewise, when Dorsey was hired by the Buffalo Bills in 2019 as the quarterbacks coach, Anderson was on the roster. He would eventually retire before that season began.
"Obviously we played together and had a great relationship there, and then he became my coach in Carolina partly because they came to me was like, 'Hey, how do you feel about this?,'" Anderson said. "'I'm like, dude, it's fine. He's a buddy but he's got a great brain and I really think he can help (then-Panthers starting quarterback) Cam (Newton).' It's kind of the same thing in Buffalo, when I was there before he came in."
What happened to the Buffalo Bills after Ken Dorsey was fired as offensive coordinator
The Dorsey who comes back to Cleveland is coming off a career disappointment, having been fired 10 games into his second season as the Buffalo Bills' offensive coordinator. Buffalo's offense was ranked seventh in the league in total yards, seventh in passing yards, eighth in points scored and 13th in rushing, but had not scored more than 25 points in a six-game stretch in which they were 2-4.
Anderson points out how the Buffalo defense was an area which actually improved the most after the firing. The Bills went from 17th in total yards (330.6) to ninth (307.2), 19th against the run (115.2) to 15th (110.6), 12th against the pass (215.4) to seventh (196.6) and 12th in third-down efficiency (41.8%) to 19th (38.6).
"I think it was an easy out," Anderson said of the firing. "I didn't love it at the time, but I totally understand it. I understand the dynamics of what goes on in the league, and sometimes that's an easy out for an organization or a coach. It worked out for Buffalo and Joe came in and called great games and it all kind of came together. But do I think that if they keep Ken, do they come out of that slump and they continue to play? I do. I think that nothing would've changed and everything would've probably been fine."
Anderson believes what he's seen out of Dorsey, particularly what he's seen in person playing for him, backs up those feelings. It's specifically what he can do for quarterbacks, which is what the Browns are hoping for as well with Deshaun Watson entering the third year of his contract.
How Ken Dorsey helped Cam Newton, Josh Allen become top NFL quarterbacks
Dorsey helped Newton blossom into the NFL's Most Valuable Player in 2015. The former No. 1 overall pick posted a 99.4 passer rating and 35 touchdown passes, both career highs, while guiding the Panthers to the Super Bowl.
Once Dorsey got to Buffalo, he helped Josh Allen take a similar step forward after his 2018 rookie season. It's started with a six-point improvement in Allen's completion percentage from his rookie season in that first year working with Dorsey, then a third season in which he was MVP runner-up with career highs in completion percentage (69.2%), yards (4,544 yards), touchdown passes (37) and passer rating (107.2). He also had his lowest interception percentage at 1.7%.
"It starts with your understanding of your offense, where your eyes need to be, your progressions, all of those things," Anderson said. "Especially for guys like Cam, Josh, Deshaun, guys that can rely on their legs but also can throw the ball quite well. They tend to get out of the reads quick knowing that they can make a play with their legs.
"But I think where Ken really helped Cam was obviously his preparation, understanding the defense, knowing when to get the ball out of his hands and then go be an athlete. Just understanding the timing of the play and then go be an athlete, right? It's not always drop back, 'Oh, they're automatically in man coverage, I'm taking it down and running it.'"
How Ken Dorsey and Deshaun Watson will fit together with the Browns
Which leads back to Dorsey's newest challenge as the Browns' offensive coordinator. Specifically, it leads to Watson, whose skill set in both similar yet different than either Newton or Allen.
For one thing, Watson's isn't quite a physically big as either Newton or Allen. The other thing is that Watson has never been quite the focal point of a team's running game the way both Newton and Allen have been at times in their careers.
However, Anderson has followed what Watson's done in his 12 starts with the Browns over the last two seasons. He believes Dorsey can help unlock the old version of Watson the Browns need him to be this season.
"The limited amount of time that Deshaun has played, I would say that recently he's not really playing quarterback," Anderson said. "He's throwing to the first guy, and then running around and trying to make plays with his legs. It's imperative that he gets back to getting through his progressions and playing football like I think most people around the league know he can."
Off topic, but Akron Beacon Journal beats the pants off the PD for Browns coverage. Sadly, Marla Ridenour retired at the end of last season. She's on my Mount Rushmore of All-Time NE Ohio sports reporters. /randomthoughts
One thing I think Buffalo did when they fired Dorsey was pivot from a long-term vision in order to achieve short-term gains, because there was a huge sense of urgency to "win now."
I think they were trying to transition Allen into more of a passing threat who could run if necessary, vs a QB who was a threat for a QB draw on any given play. To Dorsey's credit, the passing game did a lot better under him, minus the glaring turnovers, and the bottom-line win percentage. Dorsey seemed to stick with that construct through thick and thin, even post-meltdown when he was in the booth.
When the team pivoted to "win now, or else" he was on the outs. There was no long term vision for transitioning Allen's skills at that point because they just wanted to make the dang playoffs.
Hmmm, don't you think he's going from the pot into the fire then? Afterall, it probably goes without saying that 2024 for the Browns is also going to be a "win now, or else."
I think you're going to get a certain degree of that regardless of where you're going. It's the NFL so there's never going to be a whole lot of patience. With the Browns, you've got a vet QB who (should) be elite and roughly fits the type of QB you've had success with in the past, and tons of pieces to work with.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Off topic, but Akron Beacon Journal beats the pants off the PD for Browns coverage. Sadly, Marla Ridenour retired at the end of last season. She's on my Mount Rushmore of All-Time NE Ohio sports reporters. /randomthoughts
Marla always asked the dumbest questions in pressers. I mean Grossi and Cabot were a distant second and third. I don’t recall any of her articles, but I recall that. It’s hard for me to believe anything she put in print would be much better.
Off topic, but Akron Beacon Journal beats the pants off the PD for Browns coverage. Sadly, Marla Ridenour retired at the end of last season. She's on my Mount Rushmore of All-Time NE Ohio sports reporters. /randomthoughts
Marla always asked the dumbest questions in pressers. I mean Grossi and Cabot were a distant second and third. I don’t recall any of her articles, but I recall that. It’s hard for me to believe anything she put in print would be much better.
Well, as long as you base you "beliefs" on vague recollections from press conferences...
Former Beacon Journal columnist Marla Ridenour wins prestigious national writing award. Former longtime Beacon Journal sports columnist Marla Ridenour has received national recognition from the Pro Football Writers of America with a first-place honor in the 2023 Dick Connor Writing Awards
I'm having a hard time recalling anyone asking terrible questions quite like Grossi and MKC (in that order).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
One thing I think Buffalo did when they fired Dorsey was pivot from a long-term vision in order to achieve short-term gains, because there was a huge sense of urgency to "win now."
I think they were trying to transition Allen into more of a passing threat who could run if necessary, vs a QB who was a threat for a QB draw on any given play. To Dorsey's credit, the passing game did a lot better under him, minus the glaring turnovers, and the bottom-line win percentage. Dorsey seemed to stick with that construct through thick and thin, even post-meltdown when he was in the booth.
When the team pivoted to "win now, or else" he was on the outs. There was no long term vision for transitioning Allen's skills at that point because they just wanted to make the dang playoffs.
Hmmm, don't you think he's going from the pot into the fire then? Afterall, it probably goes without saying that 2024 for the Browns is also going to be a "win now, or else."
I think you're making inferences and extrapolations that aren't really there. What I mentioned was specific to Buffalo at that point in time.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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