DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Putin Wants Biden For President

I hate to brow beat you, too, like OCD said, but a lot of what you post - using your own words - is "I think" vs "This is what the facts are." That is the problem.

Almost a century ago, in Germany, based upon the quote I said earlier, and based upon the repeated lies of one man, many people thought Jews were the reason Germany lost WW2, and that they sought to oppress the German population through the financial system, and that they were "polluting" the German race.

Right now, via the words of Putin in his Carlson interview, many in Russia think that Poland apparently started WW2, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was benevolent, that Ukrainians aren't real people, and those that seek self-determination there are Nazis.

Right now, people in North Korea think their leader possesses semi-divine powers.

When we allow ourselves to be consumed by anger, we then can be taken advantage of by someone who feigns empathy toward that anger, directs it toward a group of people, champions himself a hero, and then achieves self-fulfilling power to achieve his own goals often at the detriment of society. When reviewing this from an outside or a post-facto lens, we often wonder "How in the heck could people have thought this?" I thought that, and still think that. But I've noticed more and more lately that people will morph reality to conform with their beliefs and thoughts, regardless of how asinine they are, because on some level, that is more comforting to us than even possibly questioning the idea that "Maybe my world view is wrong."

I see leftist beliefs as wrong. Plain and simple. They do not conform to what our founding fathers set up as the life blood of our society. The way of life in this country is being threatened and it is coming from the left. No where in our history has this country ever condoned the beliefs that Democrats are forcing down our throats now. This country is not a Democracy and never has been. When that buzz word is being used it is being used for a purpose. This country is a Constitutional Republic. It changes slowly and not this radical change the progressive left is trying to force on people. The left has a belief that they are right and everyone else including the founding fathers are wrong and they want to change the culture of this country. The fabric that this country was built on. In other words, the Democrats are selling this country out to the globalists.

There is your challenge. It is a good/bad mentality, instead of a disdain for the absurd nature and inherent inconsistencies of political discourse. Find me where it talks about political parties in the Constitution.

The last constitutional crisis was created by none other than Donald J. Trump and his fake electors. Jan 6 aside, no other proof is necessary.

You are flat out wrong about Democrats hating the constitution. I don't know who fed you or why you wrote that line, but making silly statements anyone for anyone discussing their constitutional beliefs is mind numbingly crazy talk - see Amendment 1.

You can't talk about the founding fathers wishes for change. One thing for sure is that they created a document that could be amended, and in fact it took 10 amendments just to get it passed. We have had amendments and repeal of amendments. And I will strongly suggest that no founding father ever considered the constitution sacred. They knew it was flawed. Read "Summer of 1787" for additional insight.

Don't equate champions of a pure democracy with those championing authoritarianism and fascists. That is wrong on so many levels.

An unintended consequence of the Constitutional Republic is that it favors a 2 party political system. Washington did not want to be associated with any political party.

At one time the Republicans were the liberals, the party was founded by those who wanted to end slavery. Politics has an ebb and flow and now the Republicans are more conservative, in part because democrats supported the idea of civil rights. What is right for an individual may not be the same as what is the party platform. See Republicans that support abortion, or democrats who like robust military spending.

Name calling has gotten so in vogue these days, partially because of the vile stuff that came out of media celebrities mouths beginning in the late 80's. That was picked up by cable news outlets, then the politicians. Now we have to deal with verbal flamethowers who do nothing except solicit donations via their Twitter account.

When everything is black and white, there is no room left for grey, or an intelligent discussion or respectful political discourse. That is the real risk of today. Politics requires communication and consensus.

A quote from abe is added.

"It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Very well said. I love that you brought Washington into it. He expounds on political parties in his farewell address, stating:

"One of the expedients of party to acquire influence
within particular districts is to misrepresent the
opinions and aims of other districts. You cannot shield
yourselves too much against the jealousies and heart
burnings which spring from these misrepresentations.
They tend to render alien to each other those who
ought to be bound together by fraternal affection."

***

"However combinations or associations of the above
description may now and then answer popular ends,
they are likely, in the course of time and things, to
become potent engines by which cunning, ambitious,
and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the
power of the people and to usurp for themselves the
reins of government, destroying afterwards the very
engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

***

"I have already intimated to you the danger of
parties in the state, with particular reference to the
founding of them on geographical discriminations.
Let me now take a more comprehensive view and
warn you in the most solemn manner against the
baneful effects of the spirit of party, generally"

***

"The alternate domination of one faction over
another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to
party dissension, which in different ages and countries
has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a
frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more
formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and
miseries which result gradually incline the minds of
men to seek security and repose in the absolute power
of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some
prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his
competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of
his own elevation on the ruins of public liberty."

------------------------------

Sure seems like he was onto something...

Some questions and thoughts.

What beliefs do you consider wrong?

What is so special about your beliefs that make you think that everyone should abide by them?

Why do you think you can speak for the founding fathers?

Do you understand that this United State of America is a constitutional republic has its representatives elected by a democratic process? You seem to keep forgetting the second half. In fact that was changed by amendment back around 1920 to have senators elected by the people of a state.

Why do we need slow change? Who made up that rule? Where is that written into the constitution? Do you realize that some amendments were very quick to be passed, I think the voting rights act lowering the age to 18 was one of them.

Who gives you the authority to speak for the left, you are obviously not one of them and even though I am not one of them would object to this characterization. What don't you understand about "all men (and women) are created equal".

I thought this country was built on ground not fabric.

Some would say that those evil capitalistic Republicans are the globalists.

I have read Washington's words before, and believe them to be true.

Some days, I think banning of political parties would be the preferable alternative, but obviously not possible - See Amendment 1.

I judge the Democrats on the fruit they produce, and it is rotten fruit.

The big cities are overcome with crime due to soft on crime Democratic prosecuting attorneys and judges.

Defund the police. How has that worked out for you?

Support for hate groups like BLM and Antifa. Riots in the streets and rioters bailed out of jail by your Vice President Kamala.

Girls and women losing their right to privacy with support for the transgender sexual deviants.

Girls and women losing many privileges like scholarships in athletics to naturally born males. Other girls and women being injured competing vs those same boys and losing out on their hard work and dreams by losing to those natural born boys/men.

The 2nd amendment under attack constantly. We the people have a right to defend ourselves.

Murder of babies. Abortion is murder.

Mutilation of children. Transition surgery for children under 18 is mutilation. If an adult wants to mutilate themselves have at it.

Now you ask why I see the Democrats not respecting this country. Who took the Pledge of Allegiance out of our schools? Who kneeled for our National Anthem? Who burned the flag of our country in the streets?

Socialism does not work. Has never worked. What it does is return the people to peasants and the elites into a ruling class. I guess that is what you people want. Not for me!!!

Homeless camps in the streets on California, Portland, Seattle. Is that what we want in our Country. Republicans did not cause those homeless camps. That is from years and years of Democrats decisions being made. Human waste in the streets causing what diseases Go only knows.

No border. Criminals, drugs, human traffickers pouring over our border daily.

Globalists do not believe in borders. People that believe in Sovern nations believe in borders.

That is judging a political party by its fruit. The same political party that founded the KKK. Founded Jim Crow laws. The Republican party fought the war to free slaves. The Republican party was on the right side of history then and they are again on the right side of history now.

Not that I support all of that, but it’s a lot better than supporting Putin’s mass killing and the spread of communism like all you trump loving GOPers do.

Here's the funny thing. I think your view is horribly slanted and inaccurate, but I don't actually like the Democrats much either. Right now, though, I see the MAGA wing of the Republicans as a greater societal threat, though. Their cuddling to Putin and Orban is one of many reasons why.

Your post is deflection, though, from the topic at hand.

Here is my view on Putin. If you don't want Russia to take Ukraine, then join the fight. Don't just throw money at Ukraine and waste the money on a lost cause. As much as everyone says Trump cuddles Putin and takes his words out of context. He stated what he would do if he was Putin because he sees the weakness of Biden and NATO. He never said he would not stop that if President. Putin knows that Trump is strong, and he never would have invaded Ukraine if Trump wasn't cheated out of the 2020 election. Elections have consequences and Ukraine is now paying the price.

Delusion.

IMO, the rest of your post is a lot of misrepresentation and/or untrue. However, your overall point (which I left in the quote above) is true, IMO. Your overall point is NOT wrong here.


However...

Republicans, especially the MAGA wing, are no better. They're just as bad as the democrats that you've demonized. The disconnect that I see, is that while I can sorta agree with you about Democrats, you want to flip that into support for Republicans and Trump. That has been the Republican playbook (absence of any sort of platform or plan, just point at Dems and call them bad), and you're buying it. Just because Dems are bad, doesn't mean Republicans are good.

It's gotten so bad, that Republican candidates are running solely on their support for Trump. That's literally their entire platform... supporting a guy that has lost 2/2 popular votes, has seemingly run out of time and is about to pay the piper in terms of his illegal activities, tried to overthrow a democratic election, and who can't seem to get along with our allies (especially when he's actively undermining them) and only gets along with dictators.

So you don't want to throw money (it's actually equipment/ammo that we're sending) at Ukraine, but you'd rather throw American lives and (here's the kicker) MORE equipment to equip said American soldiers? That makes zero sense.

Ukraine is not a lost cause. They've demonstrated that during the initial wave of the invasion when Russia tried to go straight to Kiev, and then the first spring counteroffensive. When they are properly equipped, they have been successful. When that equipment is held back (mostly by MAGA Republicans loyal to Trump) then Ukraine's effectiveness is degraded. The argument that we shouldn't send equipment because they haven't been effective lately because we've held back equipment is so transparently stupid.

Trying to link the 2020 election to Russia's invasion of Ukraine is something, but you're ignoring Trump's withholding of aid to Ukraine in the year leading up to the initial invasion. You can't try to argue one and then ignore the other (without looking like a stooge).

I understand that's what you call sensible gun control.


Who and when has anyone challenged the electoral college in the SCOTUS? But I do understand that since your side is the one that keeps winning while losing the popular vote you don't think everyone's vote should be counted equally. Because you know, lines on a map mean more than people's votes do.


Please do. I've been hearing "Democrats gonna take mah guns!" since the 1980's. Yet they haven't tried to yet. You keep believing that BS.

So first people claim Putin wants Biden to be president. Then we find out that Russian intel planted a lie that was presented to congress that would have implicated Joe Biden into Hunter Biden's business dealings. yeah that sounds like he wants Biden elected. Now we have trump refusing to call out Putin ion the death of Navalny. The only sane republican running for the nomination calls him out on it.....

Haley presses Trump to call out Putin amid silence after Navalny death

GOP presidential candidate Nikki Haley pressed former President Trump to call out Russian President Vladimir Putin in the wake of opposition leader Alexei Navalny’s death, while arguing that his silence is “a problem.”

“Anybody that can’t call out a dictator, that’s a problem,” Haley, the former governor of South Carolina, said in the interview on CNN’s “The Source” with anchor Kaitlan Collins.

“You know, he should be calling – not just calling Putin out for what happened to Nalvany, he should be calling Putin out for the fact that he’s got Evan Gershkovich as a hostage,” she continued, referring to The Wall Street Journal reporter who has been detained in Russia for nearly a year. “He should be calling out Putin for invading Ukraine.”

Her comments come after Navalny, 47, was found unresponsive by the Russian Federal Prison Service. He had been serving a 19-year sentence on charges of extremism in one of Russia’s highest-security prisons in a remote area known for severe winters.

The opposition leader, who grew from a blogger to Putin’s chief rival, is just the latest of the Russian president’s critics to be found dead — which has sparked international concerns about whether the Kremlin was involved.

Haley, like many others, have accused Putin of orchestrating Navalny’s death.

“Putin did this,” she wrote Friday morning on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter, in response to the news. “The same Putin who Donald Trump praises and defends. The same Trump who said: ‘In all fairness to Putin, you’re saying he killed people. I haven’t seen that’.”

She echoed those claims Saturday, arguing Trump’s praise of Putin has only “emboldened” him, including aggressive comments the former president has made about NATO. His harsh criticism of the treaty alliance centers on efforts to get NATO members to commit 2 percent of their GDP to defense spending — or else, he vowed to rescind protection and signaled he would “encourage” Russia to attack them.

“That means Donald Trump is siding with a thug who kills his political opponents,” Haley said. “He’s siding with someone who has made no bones about wanting to destroy America. He’s siding with someone who arrests American journalists and holds them hostage.”

Navalny’s death was confirmed by his family Saturday, who said he was murdered, and they have pushed Russia to return his body.

President Biden also blamed Putin for his death Friday.

“Make no mistake: Putin is responsible for Navalny’s death. Putin is responsible,” he said from the White House. “What has happened to Navalny is yet more proof of Putin’s brutality. No one should be fooled.”

The president had previously given a warning to Putin in a 2021 meeting in Geneva that there would be “devastating” consequences if Navalny were to die.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4474409-haley-trump-putin-navalny-death-silence/

Like I said to Day earlier in the thread, give me an example of just one time Trump stood up to Putin.

So many red flags and "bricks" like we've talked about ad nauseum, but they go ignored.

But, hey, grocery carts and subway stations and whatnot, amiright?

You're right.