DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus The economy……

There are what many would describe as bad actors on both sides. What people often do is try to dignify their actions as being the same or similar. Evidence suggests that's simply not true.

please re-read the first 3 sentences of what I wrote.

"Taking money" for votes happens on both sides of the aisle.

The bad actors I worry about are the ones "buying" the votes more than the ones making them.

People often try to quibble and say one side is worse, but they're both corrupted and awful. Both sides have shown they're willing to change their minds if you give them enough... "reasons."

Yes, there are awful examples of people on the right at the moment. Unfortunately, when it comes to the actual job performance (bills/voting,) evidence (correlation b/w voting and "political contributions") suggests the actions are similar.

My comment concerns the things they perpetuate and some of the obvious things it seems as though you too recognize.


As far as there being a party that is clean verses a party that is dirty I agree with you. The entire way that super pacs work and how money influences both parties stinks to high heaven. Neither party has clean hands and neither party governs effectively.

That taking money for votes thing is so true. No question. But you've never seen any president, EVER, try to overthrow a legit vote like Trump did. NEVER!

You've NEVER seen a President and Many in congress try to use blackmail tactics like the republicans have. Hell you don't see decent republicans doing that.

You don't see any Dems trying to support Russia in any way, But look at the Reps., Gees, it's like they want us to become Commies.

So while you see some similar things, the Dems just haven't reached the lowest of lows like the Reps have,

I do get what you are saying. At the same time, I think there is something to the idea that Republicans are just saying out loud what the Dems have kept on the down low. Kind of like tampering in the NFL. Everyone's been doing it, the Republicans are just dumb enough to get caught. Or they think those voting for them don't care any more (or worse prefer it.)

I also wonder if the current political climate had been present during the Bush-Gore election if the Democrats wouldn't have been more confrontational. Or if Biden had been said to have lost, I'm not sure the left wouldn't have had its own explosive demonstration(s.) I think the "overthrowing a legit vote" was, at least in part, a product of the overall climate. Our culture (particularly politically) is in a rather combative place.

Trump definitely was a factor in our increasingly combative political arena. I also think his emergence as a political candidate in the first place was a product of that polarization/combativeness already somewhat existing.

Which is worse, the wolf that gets caught leaving a bloody mess behind with its first sheep taken, or the wolf in sheep's clothing that hides their predation for decades? Meh, they're all more leeches than wolves. Unfortunately, they're the suck you dry instead of the suck out the poison variety. Let's just call them pseudo-political financial vampires. Trump just wasn't properly trained not to break the masquerade.

I kinda see what your saying there. No question that Trump made it "OKAY" to be a bigot, racist, Nazi, Commie etc. Some of those that think that way have done so for years. But Trump made it OK.


What I'm saying however is that since Trump made it ok, why haven't a bunch of Dems taken up the MAGA torch? Trump converted those that already thought that way into loudmouths.

And as always, some are doing it to get and maintain power.

Daman....seriously, China is the enemy. Don't close your eyes to that.

The Republicans are the Sabbat, and the Democrats are the Camarilla. lol. You probably have no idea what I'm going on about. (VtM Link) Basically, the Camarilla are the vampires that hide what they are from humanity and follow strict rules to survive. The Sabbat are the vampires that don't particularly care if humanity knows about them because they figure they can scare/buy/eliminate them. Both see humanity as prey to feed on. Both have their thralls. Both sides are power hungry.

I'm actually kind of surprised it took me this long to think of this comparison and realize how well it works. Smh.

China is indeed the enemy.. No doubt, So is Russia, And S. Korea. And any country that is anti democratic.,

Those are the outside enemies.

But we are talking about the enemy within. That's Trump and his MAGA ass hats

LOL Kinda went about the bend on that one Bull

Some people need to understand that you have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Of course China is our enemy. But China isn't knocking on the door of our NATO allies. This is another Hitler invades Poland moment. And t appears we have those in our government that thinks we should just sit back and watch.... again. People with that mind set have learned nothing.

If we get tunnel vision on China while ignoring Russia, we will have made a critical mistake. "will have made a critical mistake" may be using the wrong phrase. It should have been "we are currently making a critical mistake."

LOL, yeah. Still it's kind of "scary" how well it fits. Yes, the Republicans have the psychotic, deranged "vampires" that are clearly dangerous. Unfortunately, the Democrats are still "vampires," too, even if discreet.

...come to think of it, I never have seen a politician's reflection in a mirror.... LOL.

I don't disagree that we are making a mistake. I'm guessing we're not looking at the same one, though.

We're not ignoring Russia. We are however inefficiently using resources, and some people want to waste even more. We clearly need to do something. However, what we have done is primarily flush lives, equipment, and money down the toilet with little to no progress to show for it.

Even if Ukraine does push back Russia now, their population and infrastructure are in shambles. Continuing as things have been are only going to worsen those issues.

We need a better solution than sending war material.

South Korea is our enemy? This is news to me.

Thats funny coming from the person that only wants to talk about Trump.

You can't stop a Russian invasion Of Ukraine without "war materials". Worsening things would be making no attempt to stop the Russian war machine from sitting on the doorstep of our NATO allies. If you can't see how similar this is to the Nazi invasion of Poland I think there's a disconnect somewhere. Helping Ukraine to weaken the Russian war machine is not a waste of lives, equipment, and money. Ukranians have decided they are going to fight Russia to the death either way. Helping them defend their country with a defense system and weapons only lessens those deaths, not increase them. If you want to see a waste of money you may get to see that. If we sit back and allow Russia on the doorstep of our allies the spending will really ramp up. Unless of course we don't see that as serious enough to spend money on either.

Some people learned nothing from WW2. Backing away from Ukraine only helps embolden Putin. All we are teaching the word at this point in time is that we are not a dependable ally and we have no credibility. That makes us weaker and our enemies stronger. Don't think China and N. Korea aren't sitting back taking notes. And the message we are sending them is that the U.S. will be weak to stand against them if the situation calls for it.

It's not my fault you haven't been paying attention.

If you want to argue that we should send our troops, I could see positives (though definite risks.) Sending equipment to worn down, out numbered Ukrainians is like sending loose sand in front of a tsunami without the bags to put it in.

The damage it is doing to the Russian military is a positive. Despite your indications to the contrary, Ukraine was putting up an admirable defense when it had the weapons it needed. Now that it is running short on weaponry and ammunition the contrast us stark. Abandoning an ally you said you would support sends a strong message to all of your enemies. And not a good one.

We aren’t sending troops until Putin hits a NATO country. And why is it with you that everything is a lost cause and supporting it is throwing money away? From public schools, to supporting Ukraine. Pffft Debbie downers. It’s going to cost a lot more than American lives if we don’t support Ukraine. Congress already has blood on their hands by not sending support.

WHoops, My Bad.. NORTH Korea... But you knew that. You just wanted to bush by nuts,. Right?

There seems to be the vocal majority of one party ready and willing to ignore Russia.

Is Ukraine in shambles, yes they are! Who caused that? Russia! What we need to do is help them now with whatever they need to defeat Russia, then help them rebuild. Then we need to sponsor them in an effort to join NATO. That would offer up an giant Middle Finger to Putin... That's how you put an end to this kinda crap once and for all.

I agree with you. I just think the "whatever they need" part is different than what we've been giving them.

Then what is it you think they need to defend themselves against an invading force that we aren't giving them? Because the myth that we are giving them money rather than arms has been debunked.

People trained to use them. The possibility of resting the troops that they do have.

Or figure out another method of ending the war other than "in the field."

They already have people that train them to use them. The only way to rest the troops they have is to provide them with troops to take their place. Something Ukraine has not requested from us or from anyone else for that matter. Providing them with the necessary arms to defend themselves and humanitarian aid is all they have requested. And as of now Republicans in the House are blocking a vote on that. They don't want and haven't asked for anyone to fight their war for them. I don't think we have the right to interfere in their own plans for fighting a war other than to help give them the ability to fight it.

Unfortunately, giving someone the ability to fight a war doesn't automatically give them the ability to win a war.


link

So you should only defend nations you know will win? It seems even your own link describes others from outside the country helping defend Ukraine. We used to be a nation that did the right thing in terms of defending democracy and not use gambling odds as to who will win and who will lose in our decision making. Now it seems as though you condone only backing democracies if we're sure they will win.

No, but if you want them to win you should give them everything they need instead of just enough to get them killed more slowly. Unfortunately, they need people as much or more than material.

They haven't asked for "people" to fight their war form them.

We all have opinions on that.

I think China is trying to undermine us. They aren't doing this out in the open. They lurk in the underbrush.

https://www.fox5vegas.com/2024/03/1...sands-evictions-continue/?outputType=amp

30,000 households evicted in Vegas because they cant afford their rent. More evictions coming.

https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/americans-debt-gets-even-heavier-5822705/

Americans' debt gets even heavier
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By Rob Sacks, Editor at LinkedIn News
Updated 5 hours ago


The rising cost of carrying debt is becoming a heavier burden for many Americans. Delinquency rates on credit cards and auto loans top pre-pandemic levels, per the New York Federal Reserve. And, for the first time, interest on non-mortgage debt — including those car loans and credit card balances — are as big a burden as mortgage interest payments, Bloomberg reports. Those high borrowing costs could explain a slump in consumer sentiment, even as research suggests inflation is coming down and hiring remains strong.


*According to Debt.org, Americans owe $986 billion on credit cards, surpassing the prepandemic high of $927 billion.

Based on what?

They have, and we (NATO) said, "No." Zelensky requested the UN (that NATO?) to declare Ukraine a no fly zone and NATO didn't want to risk broadening the war because such a declaration would require committing troops to enforce it.

The Ukrainian military is allegedly looking for another 500,000 soldiers. BBC Link

Drafting half a million civilians isn't going to magically turn them into soldiers. At best, a bunch of clueless kids/"young adults" are gonna end up dead.

You aren't instantly an effective fighting force because you handed out a bunch of uniforms and send people through some hasty theoretical training.

Corporate espionage, spy ballons, covid leaks, Tick Tok, just little things like that.

How does that change the fact that Russia too is our enemy and if they defeat Ukraine will be sitting on the border of our NATO allies? Nobody has tried to argue the point that China too is our enemy.

Asking that NATO declare it a no fly zone isn't asking "us or NATO for more people".


Once again you are trying to conflate Zelensky getting troops from his own people to asking us or NATO for troops.

And need I remind you, our own country takes 18 year olds and after boot camp considers them to be soldiers too. Would you describe that as "a bunch of clueless kids/'young adults'"? And if not, why not?

Zelensky is not asking for foreign troops from NATO countries to fight this war for them.