DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Trial of Michigan school shooter’s Mother

Opening statements underway in trial of Michigan school shooter’s mother.

It’s about time a court held parents responsible for buying their mentally challenged kids a gun.

Couldn't agree more.

Although I've never heard of any other parents buying their mentally challenged kid a gun. Is this a thing?

It is.

Huh. I've never heard of this, where can I find some more info on this strange movement?

History bro. Research is key. Try it sometime.

Didn’t Rittenhouse’s parent buy his guns?
Just sayin.




Pokes hornets nest, then runs.

Research is key? 🤣

In other words. Nothing.

Uhhh, no. lol

Maybe “Give/Give Access” would have been a better term. But that’s moving the goal post a smige left I know. my bad.

I don't think telling the truth is moving goalposts.

But this is Dawgtalkers...

Truth be told, I’m hoping gun owning parents will be on their toes moving forward.

One would hope! Part of it is people getting lazy when they've always been around guns, but no excuses!

In this case, I think involuntary manslaughter sticks. And rightfully so. These people deserve years in prison.

I'm generally in favor of the 2nd amendment, but I'm glad that we can talk and agree about more accountability when owning a gun.

My bad. My memory was fuzzy as I was still in bed scrolling and reading when I posted.
It was actually an idiot 20 year old named Dominick Black.

Father of convicted Waffle House shooter to serve time in prison for providing gun

It turns out what happened was a violation of Illinois state law — where Travis Reinking's family lives. The court found Jeffrey Reinking illegally returned the AR-15 rifle to his son who had been deemed mentally ill.....Mar 6, 2023

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/f...o-serve-time-in-prison-for-providing-gun

Yeah, dude got six months in jail and three years probation. The "lol" was for the hornet's nest comment, btw. Rereading it now I sound like a big(ger) smart ass. 🤣

18 months seems a little light. Dad returned guns to someone deemed mentally ill, after having been ordered to remove all guns from his possession. Hell, even the three year max sounds light.

It sounds light to me as well. I'm a proponent of responsible gun rights but there's nothing responsible about this and it's costing people their life. I think the penalty should more closely reflect the outcome.

Amen to that.

j/c

Kentucky parents charged with manslaughter after 3-year-old fatally shoots 2-year-old brother

The parents of a 3-year-old toddler who shot and killed his 2-year-old brother have been charged with manslaughter, Kentucky authorities said.

"This was very much avoidable," said Kenton County Commonwealth Attorney Rob Sanders during a news conference addressing the shooting. "This shooting death was caused by the fact that two adults left a loaded handgun with a round in the chamber within reach of a three-year-old child they did not supervise."

The 23-year-old mother, Selena Farrell, was arraigned Friday on charges of second-degree manslaughter and other charges, according to court records. The children's father, 21-year-old Tashaun Adams, was arrested on second-degree manslaughter charges. He has not yet been arraigned, Sanders said.



The 2-year-old boy was fatally shot on Monday afternoon in an apartment in Northern Kentucky. Police said they arrived at the home around 12:45 p.m. local time and rushed the toddler to the hospital where he later died.

Covington police said the mother allegedly fled the scene before law enforcement arrived, local media WKRC reported, and never showed up at the hospital where her son, Khalil Adams, died.

Farrell told investigators she fled because "she didn't want to be held in jail" and "possibly miss her child's funeral," Sanders said, even though she fled while the child was still alive. The parents told detectives they had the loaded handgun "for protection," Sanders said, adding that the family lived in a one-bedroom apartment with another person, and they slept on a floor mattress while the toddlers slept on a couch.

U.S. Marshals located Farrell hiding out in a hotel room in Florence, Kentucky, and brought her in on an outstanding probation warrant related to a prior felony conviction, Sanders said. She was with the children's father and another person who had no apparent familial relationship with the parents, said Sanders. All three were taken into custody by authorities, he said.

Farrell purchased the gun from a federally licensed arms dealer, said Sanders.

The surviving 3-year-old toddler has no physical injuries, said Sanders. Adams is being held in the Boone County jail, according to jail records, while Farrell is being held at the Kenton County Detention Center In Covington, Kentucky.

Half of U.S. states have safe storage laws

Hundreds of children have been killed while playing with guns over the past two decades, according to data from The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released in December. A majority of these deaths happened while children were playing in an apartment or home – more than 50% of the deaths were in the child's own house.

"Parents need to do a lot better job of supervising their children so we don't have children with guns," said Sanders. "It's not the law that's the problem, it's the parenting."

Gun control advocates disagree. A 2023 report released by Everytown For Gun Safety says that safe storage procedures and laws can help reduce America's unintentional shootings. At the beginning of 2024, 26 states had some form of gun-safe storage or child access prevention laws. For children between the ages of zero to five years old, more than half died from self-inflicted gunshots, and more than half of the children accidentally killed by another were under 10 years old.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kentuc...CXqucu45NY7z_lmecUIAsxFVNByxpEL0KKZaoW-w

At this link you will find a map showing which states either have a safe storage law or one proposed at this time and which ones do not. The map came as no surprise to me.

https://www.songstrong.org/safe-gun-storage-laws-by-state/

Pfffft.

Jennifer Crumbly found guilty of 4 counts of involuntary manslaughter. Wake up call for parents and irresponsible gun owners.


https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/oxford-shooting-jennifer-crumbley-trial-verdict/index.html

In Nashville a lot of guns are being stolen from unlocked cars. While I understand it's illegal to take things from cars, that's certainly not securing your firearm. I wonder if this conviction will start including guns used in crimes where gun owners have failed to secure their firearms?

Definitely poked the nest.... Rittenhouse was proven to be self defense... and it's not illegal to buy your kid a gun...what this lady got convicted for was completely ignoring multiple signs/warnings that this kid was going to shoot up the school.... glad she was convicted... I'm pro second amendment but also think gun owners need to be responsible and if you have a kid with mental illness, you need to get them help....

And O.J. was found not guilty.

Rittenhouse’s parents obviously missed a few red flags as well. Dude brings an ar to a protest to shoot someone. He’ll get karma dealt his way someday.

JMHO, you can't escape the bell curve of humanity- all the laws in the world will not prevent stupid/uncaring mothers and fathers from leaving loaded guns in houses, cars, name it. We are a gun culture and there will be lots of senseless deaths until we curb the 2nd Amendment. Check the gunshot deaths in Great Britain or Japan against us---we live the Wild West daily.

While you may be correct will not prevent all of it, some will change their behavior because of this. If any do it will be well worth it. It may also help insure that those who permit guns in the hands of children through such careless actions will be held accountable for it. At this point anything that will help accomplish any of that I'm thankful for.

he United Kingdom has some of the strictest gun laws in the world, resulting in relatively low levels of gun crime and firearm homicides. In 2021/22 only four percent of homicides in England and Wales were the result of shootings, compared with 85.7 percent in the United States in 2021. The most common method of killing for homicides in England and Wales was by far the use of a sharp instrument at 41 percent of homicides in the 2020/21 reporting year.

Just a quick review of internet- IHME- NSTITUTE FOR HEALTH METRICS AND EVALUATION- their chart of homicides- rates of homicides per 100,000 and countries with at least 10 million people-- MAGA folks love this one - US- 4.52. Saudi- 1.46 ....Great Britain- .01, Rep of Korea - .01. and Japan - close to .00.

The highest gun death rates in other locations- two US territories are at or near the top- Virgin Islands number one, and Puerto Rico number four in the WORLD for shooting deaths--we export our gun culture----ain't we great. Like I stated- Wild West Daily.

I'm for holding parents accountable- I'm for much stricter gun controls- I'm for making any US citizen who feels a need to have an AK-47 or US equivalent in their hometowns a criminal. Stop all the murders. Somehow the Brits, who most would call our mother country- they survive without automatic weapons in every neighborhood.

Lastly, please don't tell me those weapons are just for fun----MANY good Christians have lots of assault weapons and ammo stored up for the great uprising they are afraid of---ready to kill hundreds to save their stuff---Just what Jesus would want them to do .....MAGA.

The only thing I'm trying to tell you is that any step in the right direction is a good thing. Holding parents accountable is a good thing which means that's a step in the right direction.

Flint man becomes first person charged under Michigan’s new gun storage law

FLINT, Mich. (AP) — A Michigan man was charged Tuesday under the state’s new law requiring safe storage of guns after his 2-year-old daughter shot herself in the head with his revolver the day after the law took effect.

The 44-year-old Flint man became the first person to be charged with violating the law that took effect on Feb. 13, Genesee County Prosecutor David Leyton said. The girl is hospitalized in critical condition.

This law “went into effect one week ago today,” Leyton said at a news conference announcing charges against the man. “This incident occurred the very next day.”

The man faces charges including first-degree child abuse, a felony violation of Michigan’s gun storage law, being a felon in possession of a firearm and ammunition and lying to a police officer in a violent crime investigation.

Flint police learned of the shooting after the man took the girl to a hospital. They found two guns in the bedroom of the man’s home: the revolver and a semiautomatic pistol. Both were unsecured and loaded. Police said they found no gun locks or safes in the bedroom.

https://apnews.com/article/michigan...r2kF0vw1qaJ-6u73g2GhNLpj3axzHN87CWW1Kxxs

Michigan school shooter’s parents sentenced to 10 years in prison for not stopping a ‘runaway train’

PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — The first parents convicted in a U.S. mass school shooting were sentenced to at least 10 years in prison Tuesday as a Michigan judge lamented missed opportunities that could have prevented their teenage son from possessing a gun and killing four students in 2021.

“These convictions are not about poor parenting,” Oakland County Judge Cheryl Matthews said. “These convictions confirm repeated acts, or lack of acts, that could have halted an oncoming runaway train.”

The hearing in a crowded, tense courtroom was the climax of an extraordinary effort to make others besides the 15-year-old attacker criminally responsible for a school shooting.

Jennifer and James Crumbley did not know Ethan Crumbley had a handgun — he called it his “beauty” — in a backpack when he was dropped off at Oxford High School. But prosecutors convinced jurors the parents still played a disastrous role in the violence.

The Crumbleys were accused of not securing the newly purchased gun at home and acting indifferently to signs of their son’s deteriorating mental health, especially when confronted with a chilling classroom drawing earlier that same day.

The Crumbleys earlier this year were convicted of involuntary manslaughter.

“The blood of our children is on your hands, too,” Craig Shilling told the couple, wearing a hoodie with the image of son Justin Shilling on his chest.

Nicole Beausoleil, the mother of shooting victim Madisyn Baldwin, said the Crumbleys had failed at parenting.

“While you were purchasing a gun for your son and leaving it unlocked,” Beausoleil said, “I was helping her finish her college essays.”

Prosecutor Karen McDonald asked the judge to stretch beyond the sentencing guidelines and order a minimum 10-year prison sentence.

Defense attorneys sought to keep the Crumbleys out of prison, noting they have already spent nearly 2 1/2 years in jail, unable to afford a $500,000 bond after their arrest.

They will get credit for that jail time and become eligible for parole after serving 10 years in custody. If release from prison is denied, they could be held for up to 15 years.

Five deputies in the suburban Detroit courtroom stood closely over the couple, and more lined the walls. James Crumbley, 47, had been recorded in jail making threats toward McDonald.

Before being sentenced, he stood and insisted he did not know his son was deeply troubled.

“My heart is really broken for everybody involved. ... I have cried for you and the loss of your children more times than I can count,” he said.

The couple had separate trials in Oakland County court, 40 miles (64 kilometers) north of Detroit. Jurors saw the teen’s violent drawing on his school assignment and heard testimony about the crucial hours before the attack.

Ethan Crumbley sketched images of a gun, a bullet and a wounded man on a math paper, accompanied by despondent phrases: “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me. Blood everywhere. My life is useless.”

Ethan Crumbley had told a counselor he was sad — a grandmother had died and his only friend suddenly had moved away — but said the drawing only reflected his interest in creating video games.

His parents were called to a hasty meeting at school that lasted less than 15 minutes. They did not mention that the gun resembled one James Crumbley had purchased just four days earlier, a Sig Sauer 9 mm.

Mother and son had fired 50 rounds at a shooting range and took 50 more home. Jennifer Crumbley described the gun on social media as an early Christmas gift.

School staff did not demand that the teen go home during the meeting but were surprised when the Crumbleys did not volunteer it. Instead, they left with a list of mental health providers and said they were returning to work.

Later that day, on Nov. 30, 2021, their son pulled a handgun from his backpack and began shooting, killing Shilling, Baldwin, Tate Myre and Hana St. Juliana, and wounding seven other people. No one had checked the bag.

Ethan Crumbley, now 17, is serving a life sentence for murder and other crimes.

The parents ignored “things that would make a reasonable person feel the hair on the back of their neck stand up,” the judge said. “Opportunity knocked over and over again — louder and louder — and was ignored. No one answered.”

Jennifer Crumbley, 46, began her remarks by expressing “deepest sorrow” about the shooting. She also said her comment at her trial about looking back and not doing anything differently was “completely misunderstood.”

“My son did seem so normal. I didn’t have a reason to do anything different,” Jennifer Crumbley said.

She blamed the school for not giving her the “bigger picture” about Ethan Crumbley: sleeping in class, watching a video of a mass shooting, writing negative thoughts about his family.

“The prosecution has tried to mold us into the type of parents society wants to believe are so horrible only a school or mass shooter could be bred from,” Jennifer Crumbley said. “We were good parents. We were the average family.”

During the trials, there was no testimony from specialists about Ethan Crumbley’s mental health. But the judge, over defense objections, allowed the jury to see excerpts from his journal.

“I have zero help for my mental problems and it’s causing me to shoot up the ... school,” he wrote. “I want help but my parents don’t listen to me so I can’t get any help.”

Relatives of the victims were not impressed by the Crumbleys’ courtroom comments. Beausoleil said they were portraying themselves as victims.

“The remorse that they were showing has nothing to do with taking accountability for their actions,” Steve St. Juliana, the father of Hana, said outside court. “I’m sure they were sad people lost their lives. I’m sure they’re sad their son is in jail, sad they’re in jail. ... What’s important is for them to recognize that they made mistakes.”

The judge will decide later whether the Crumbleys will be allowed to have contact with their son while the three are in separate state prisons, though McDonald, the prosecutor, said the Corrections Department typically prohibits communication between co-defendants.

Defense lawyers said the Crumbleys have a constitutional right to be a family. But McDonald wondered about the parents of the victims.

“The parents in that courtroom have been deprived of their constitutional right to be parents, and that matters,” she told reporters.

https://apnews.com/article/james-cr...hooting-e5888f615c76c3b26153c34dc36d5436

"...the parents have been deprived of their constitutional right to be a parent" Huh???

First I am pretty sure that there is no constitutional right in the constitution for parents... so that is a stretch.

Second, the boy killed 4 others, how about the victims rights to live, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Smh. I’m glad they were held responsible. Buying your kid a firearm knowing he’s mental unhealthy is diabolical.

Amen to that. I was hoping for more. We need to be overcompensating until some of the psychos in this society start getting the message.

Imma betting a lot of the parents that have bought their kids guns are now doing some stringent over site and regulating right about now. Something truly lacking in our society.

To take it a step further, I hope this is setting a precedent vs just a one-and-done headline.