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it's not confusing to me. I'm very clear on what I do. Show up at my hotel, present a credit card and refuse to show ID with that and I will ask you to pay cash or present a card. Not confusing at all.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Did you also know that a merchant cannot set a minimum purchase for using a card? I have seen at least 1 local merchant lose their credit card machine because of a sign stating "minimum $X purchase required to pay by credit card".
Really? I did not know this. I see it practically all the time.
Bottom of page 9. http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf
Interesting.
I have to wonder though, why do they do it if they know they're not allowed?
Also, what can I do to get them to knock it off? 
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They do it for the same reasons they ask for ID..they really don't have a clue as to their TOS. I also imagine they don't like to pay the processing fee for a $3 purchase, but that's not their call. You have to tell them it's against their merchant agreement and then report them for violations. That's what I do. I know my rights as a consumer and they should know theirs as a merchant. At least that's how I see it. Here's the link for MasterCard violations: http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/contactus/merchantviolations.html
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I'm sure Visa/Mastercard both have hotlines to report violations of the ToS. Coincidentally, the Amex site Merc agreement makes no mention of requesting either Identification or minimum purchases anywhere I could find. . Amex Merc agreement
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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Cool, thanks. The local six-pack store down the road has a minimum charge, he'll be the first that I report. I don't like paying $6.50 for a six-pack and having to buy a dollars worth of slim jims when I don't like those nasty things.
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it's not confusing to me. I'm very clear on what I do. Show up at my hotel, present a credit card and refuse to show ID with that and I will ask you to pay cash or present a card. Not confusing at all.
Did you mean present ID? If so, you are violating the TOS and losing a customer in the process. If you don't care, then so be it.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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old Milwaukee's Best ??  or Pabst??
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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it's not confusing to me. I'm very clear on what I do. Show up at my hotel, present a credit card and refuse to show ID with that and I will ask you to pay cash or present a card. Not confusing at all.
Did you mean present ID? If so, you are violating the TOS and losing a customer in the process. If you don't care, then so be it.
Yes I mean present ID. If the customer presents a card, and I request ID and they refuse, then I won't check them in. It's not that hard and contrary to what you may choose to believe, it does help prevent fraud.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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That's fine, just know that you could lose your right to accept credit cards if enough people cared to report you. You've already stated you know you can't refuse a transaction with a valid card.
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Actually, being that he runs a resort, he has the right to request ID for verification of address before assigning them a room. it's not the same as buying a 6 pack at the corner store. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Maybe it's just me but why do any of you care? Just show your ID and be done with it. 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Actually, being that he runs a resort, he has the right to request ID for verification of address before assigning them a room.
Perhaps, but that wasn't the reason he gave for asking for ID.
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Maybe it's just me but why do any of you care? Just show your ID and be done with it.
Have you read this thread? Showing ID can lead to fraud. You are much safer NOT showing ID with a valid credit card purchase.
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Yes, I have read the thread. All of it. And I find it hard to believe that showing your driver's license for 10 seconds is gonna lead to anything other than the waiter/clerk saying "110 pounds, yeah, right..."
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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To my original post, I have reported two merchants to MasterCard recently for asking for I.D. They will get a letter, but it probably won't change anything.
I work in retail, and did you really report stores for asking for ID? Is it really that big of an issue? Just show your ID. 
Yes, its an annoyance, but reporting merchants for it, when it was most likely college kids working part time who probably don't know the ins and outs of the law? Come on 
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It seems to me if the credit card companies don't want the merchants doing it, there must be a reason for it. I certainly don't trust all the kids or people working in retail to take my credit card and driver's license to make a purchase. They can quit the next day and have all the information on me they need.
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j/c
you know the thing that bothers me is when you leave a tab open at a bar. Now I understand adding an 18% gratuity and all but, there was a bar back in college that charged a $50 dollar fee if you left a tab open. Now most college kids don't have the common sense to tell the owner that that is illegal, and then to use proper recourse.
JMHCCAnnoyance
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/captainphil/browns bills sig 5.jpg) When it gets cold and snows and the wind blows, you gotta be able to run the ball. - TR
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I certainly don't trust all the kids or people working in retail to take my credit card and driver's license to make a purchase. They can quit the next day and have all the information on me they need.
I never thought of it that way...I'm going to start being more careful.
This thread has been a real eye opener, thanks for posting this Michelle. I learned a lot from it.
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It seems to me if the credit card companies don't want the merchants doing it, there must be a reason for it. I certainly don't trust all the kids or people working in retail to take my credit card and driver's license to make a purchase. They can quit the next day and have all the information on me they need.
Who's taking your ID? you just show it to them, you don't hand it over to them. barely long enough for them to see if the picture resembles you and the name matches the CC.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Oh come on Florida, when people show their ID 9 times out of 10 I've seen them hand it to the person. Certainly enough time to see an address and memorize it or more. Some of you guys will go to extremes to be right. 
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I don't even remove mine from my wallet, I flip it open and let them look at it through the window.
And if they can memorize my address in that time, more power to them.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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After doing a quick search right now it looks like lots of people recognize the problem, which is probably why credit card companies tell merchants NOT to do it: http://www.forbes.com/2003/06/12/cx_ds_0612simons.htmlDouble Take Make Your Identity Useless To Thieves David Simons, 06.12.03, 8:00 AM ET NEW YORK - No matter how carefully you guard your identity, it is vulnerable to theft. There's just too much about you floating around out there; and you routinely expose pieces of it. Your credit card number allows sales clerks and waiters access to your address. Show your driver's license and you disclose your date of birth and DMV number.
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When I see a customer's ID, I (and all my staff) check to verify the name on the card matches the ID and also make sure the ID is of the person who is present.
You would be surprised how many people give you a card that isn't theirs. I've heard all the excuses. My mom's paying for this (a card presented by a young man, with a woman's name on it. And yes, his name was not Katherine.), or this is my wife's card, she's in the car with the kids (there was no wife in the car, and he had no kids with him). You can tell me that it's not secure, but I disagree. I've stopped far too many people with incorrect cards and had a few that slipped through in my younger days that I had to deal with after. Not to mention when my credit card was stolen and I didn't know about it for a week. Fortunately, my credit card company saw the charges were not part of my normal pattern and called me at home and then on my cell to confirm that it wasn't me.
So for every time I saved someone else (and my business owner) money, time and hassle I think that asking for a proper ID is a fair inconvenience.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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That's fine for you, but there are a ton of dishonest people out there and some of them are the very people checking us out. You may be honest, but they aren't!
Again, there is a reason the companies don't want people doing this, and you can bet it's because people have gotten ripped off.
You really aren't responsible for other people's bad fortune, though you think you are doing them a service, it's not your job.
You have a way out because at a hotel or resort you can ask for ID. If you are doing it solely to check the credit card you are breaking the contract. It's that simple.
And it's not your business who's going to lose the money, it's the credit card company.
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Oh come on Florida, when people show their ID 9 times out of 10 I've seen them hand it to the person. Certainly enough time to see an address and memorize it or more.
Some of you guys will go to extremes to be right.
To be honest all someone needs to memorize is what city you live in and our name, then they go on just about any county auditor's website type in your name and not only find out your address, but also how much you paid for your house, appraised value, and property taxes, many sites also have home blue prints, and pictures of the home.
The point is getting your actual address is easy, add to the fact that they can identify if you are wealthy enough to be worth their time... makes it too easy to be swindled.
Here are some auditor links
(Cuyahoga County) http://auditor.cuyahogacounty.us/repi/default.asp[/url]
Franklin County (http://franklin.governmaxa.com/propertymax/rover30.asp)
Hamilton County (http://www.hcauditor.org/realestate/rover30.asp)
When it gets cold and snows and the wind blows, you gotta be able to run the ball. - TR
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And it's not your business who's going to lose the money, it's the credit card company.
You are wrong. It is my business that is going to lose the money. If that charge is fraudulent, and they didn't authorize it or if their cc was stolen, then when that chargeback comes through (and it will) I have no recourse and my business is not given the money. Not only that, but the credit card processing fees are not refunded. So I lose the money from that sale (and in my business it is a perishable commodity as I cannot get the nights rentals back since they are in the past) as well as the fees. So it does protect my company.
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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True, and since I shop and live in the same county. Once they have my name, having my ID wont make much of a difference then. I don't find it to be a big deal, most people cannot glance at a license and get that information saved into memory, and continue checking out other customers before writing it down. Now at a restaurant where they take your card, and are out of sight for a time is different, but I don't think I've ever been asked to show my ID in a restaurant, other than to buy a drink. If people want your personal information, it's easy to get. And alot safer to do it without you seeing them face to face. I watch the people that handle my CC, their face, their body language. If something seems uneasy to me, I take notice of their name tag, register #, store and commit it to memory, and check my CC statement online over the next couple days. In fact it did happen once, a girl at a restaurant I went to for lunch, took my card, and returned it. Then i signed the receipt and she came and picked it up, and I noticed the way she looked at it as she walked away was strange. She changed my 10.00 tip on $40 lunch bill to 20.00. Which I found a couple days later when it appeared on my statement. I called the restaurant and complained, and they got her to confess, they gave me back the whole $20 not just the extra 10 and gave me a $50 gift card. That's not CC theft, that was just deceiving. But it happens.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I know a hotel manager who had this happen, he fought it and the credit card company ate the cost. Could be different rules in different states, I don't know. Here's what those nice hotel folks will do to you: Hotel workers in Illinois stole guests' credit card numbers, police say Posted 11/3/2006 3:01 AM ET E-mail | Save | Print | JOLIET, Ill. (AP) — Ten hotel workers were arrested Thursday in what police said was an identity theft ring that involved thousands of stolen credit card numbers nationwide. The four-month investigation netted more than 150 stolen credit cards used by visitors to book rooms in Joliet and Romeoville, both near Chicago, authorities said. The ring involved workers, managers and at least three owners at two Holiday Inn Express franchises, three Super 8s, a Ramada and a Budget Inn, police said. Police said they believe their informant, who faces unrelated charges, bought more than 10,000 credit card numbers used by hotel guests in the Joliet area over the past six years. Those arrested were charged with identify theft, computer fraud and unlawful use of an account number. The hotels' parent chains were not involved in the thefts, prosecutors said. It was unclear how much might have been charged to the credit card numbers. Brad Minor, a spokesman for Atlanta-based Holiday Inn Express, said the chain was "extremely concerned" about the charges against its franchisees. A spokeswoman for New Jersey-based Wyndham Hotel Group, whose franchises include Super 8 and Ramada, declined to comment. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-11-03-hotel-fraud_x.htm 
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Let me pose a question..
Lets say you are in the grocery store, Kroger for this example... The cashier rings up your groceries and says go ahead and swipe your card. You take a card out of your pocket, swipe it, then push the Credit button.. the sale is then concluded.
Since there is no provision for handing the card to the cashier and it's entirely customer driven.. is there any recourse to the grocer (Kroger) if the card is stolen? The cashier has no part in even touching or seeing the card.
SaintDawg™
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You'd have to prove it was stolen at the grocer, which if it's a self swipe system, the clerk or someone would have to put a device inline to intercept the transmission, which would be difficult to do without being noticed, not to mention it encrypts it before transmitting.
Or someone would have to be tapped into the lines elsewhere. Again, the encryption comes into play.
If someone went through the trouble to do this, they could have much more easily just driven around your neighborhood, looking for unsecured wireless internet points, and accessing your computer to look for accounts and information, and be at less risk of being caught.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I think he's asking if the grocer would lose the money since they don't even verify the signature, etc.
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I think he's asking if the grocer would lose the money since they don't even verify the signature, etc.
Uh.. Thats correct, and I was thinkering more along the lines of someone finds a wallet on the way into the store.. picks out a credit card and pays for their groceries with it.. The cashier is unrelated to any of this.. and there is no tapping of any lines or anything silly like that..
SaintDawg™
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What are these "credit card" things you speak of
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I don't doubt that happened at all. As a matter of fact, it's that exact thing that scares the bejesus out me as a hotel manager and as a consumer. It doesn't do much for your reasons though. Any of those purchases they made would have had to be electronic ones as they would have to give the actual card back to the customer. And seeing as they have access to the database of the hotels reservation system, they have all your information and probably much more than you realize. It is up to the hotel to maintain database security and monitor access, usage and maintain logs of who and what was accessed and by whom. For example, in my reservation system, I have the name, address, home phone, business phone, cell phone, email address and credit card information (sometimes multiple credit cards) of a very large number of my clientele. I also have birthdates (we send cards), anniversaries (we send flowers), spouse's names, children's names, room preferences, restaurant preferences, contact hours, vehicle information including license plates, boat hull numbers and in some cases (with the timeshare folks) insurance information and any health concerns. So as you can see, in some cases I know more about my guests than they know about themselves. Saintdawg said: Quote:
Let me pose a question..
Lets say you are in the grocery store, Kroger for this example... The cashier rings up your groceries and says go ahead and swipe your card. You take a card out of your pocket, swipe it, then push the Credit button.. the sale is then concluded.
Since there is no provision for handing the card to the cashier and it's entirely customer driven.. is there any recourse to the grocer (Kroger) if the card is stolen? The cashier has no part in even touching or seeing the card.
If I'm reading your question correctly, you're asking what the grocer could do because of a fraudulent card was used by someone in a customer driven (i.e self checkout) area.
The answer is unfortunately not much as far as I can tell. They do have camera's over the checkout lanes, so I assume they would be able to pull up video if it went to that extent, but most of the time with the large chain grocer's (not sure how big Kroger's is now) they would probably write it off as a loss and call it a day. They too have a perishable commodity that is unable to be sold after a certain time, which I'm sure if they did get anything back it would be money as they wouldn't want the half of a jug of Rocky Road ice cream. But unfortunately, by the time they get the charge back, they present the signature from that self checkout and if it doesn't match then it's my understanding that they would lose the money and the processing fees.
KeysDawg
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I don't find it to be a big deal, most people cannot glance at a license and get that information saved into memory, and continue checking out other customers before writing it down.
Keyword = MOST. Some people can do this, and do.
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If people want your personal information, it's easy to get.
Yes, it is. But why help them find the correct DawgMichelle instead of the other 20 DawgMichelle's listed in the phone book?
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She changed my 10.00 tip on $40 lunch bill to 20.00. Which I found a couple days later when it appeared on my statement. I called the restaurant and complained, and they got her to confess, they gave me back the whole $20 not just the extra 10 and gave me a $50 gift card.
I always tip in cash and write "cash" on the tip line. That way they can't add numbers to a zero or the blank line.
To those of you that think showing ID is no biggie, go ahead and do it. I hope you never have to find out the hard way why you shouldn't. And, please stop telling us to "just show your ID, it's no big deal". It CAN BE a VERY big deal. There's nothing wrong with trying to safegaurd your credit cards....especially when it's within your rights.
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Since there is no provision for handing the card to the cashier and it's entirely customer driven.. is there any recourse to the grocer (Kroger) if the card is stolen? The cashier has no part in even touching or seeing the card.
Most places are u-scan card machines these days. I'll get a REAL answer to your question and get back to you. I would think the merchant would be protected or they wouldn't use those machines.
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To my original post, I have reported two merchants to MasterCard recently for asking for I.D. They will get a letter, but it probably won't change anything.
I work in retail, and did you really report stores for asking for ID? Is it really that big of an issue? Just show your ID.
Yes, its an annoyance, but reporting merchants for it, when it was most likely college kids working part time who probably don't know the ins and outs of the law? Come on
This isn't about the college kids...it's about the "powers that be". It's generally not that the cashier has been told not to check ID and does...it's that they haven't been told anything or told to check ID. Relax.
If merchants would do the right thing, this wouldn't be an issue.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Quote:
To those of you that think showing ID is no biggie, go ahead and do it. I hope you never have to find out the hard way why you shouldn't. And, please stop telling us to "just show your ID, it's no big deal". It CAN BE a VERY big deal. There's nothing wrong with trying to safegaurd your credit cards....especially when it's within your rights.
I certainly hope you do everything you can to protect your identity. I know that I do as much as I can. I also encourage anyone who uses credit cards to check their statements regularly. IMO, everyone should get a copy of their consumer credit reports at least once a year and check to make sure that not only are your companies reporting properly, but that there are no additional accounts open that are not yours.
The Consumer reporting agencies are required to give you at least one credit report per year for no charge ( you can get this at www.annualcreditreport.com ). Some states require more than this (California and New York I'm pretty sure about, could be more though).
KeysDawg
The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. - Carl Sagan
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