DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum When Romeo gets the boot...what kind of coach?

[color:"orange"]Nice comparison...but you are comparing year 4 in Butch's Regime with year 2. Both had their problems with injuries I'd say this year was pretty monumental with injuries.

The offense has been the same disaster here since 99...statistically.

I have seen some execution differences this year and I do like the way the offense was evolving under Davidson and CF although slowly but I saw some good evolution involved. Our OL who pretty much remained healthy after the Bentley tragedy finally was gaining in some continuity. Yes Autumn that isn't a dirty word.

Our Defense has mostly been infused with young talent...Wimbley, DQ, Jones, Pool and Bodden these were players who were starters for the first time regularly and it is there that a our talent pool lies right now after 2 years. Its a young Defense. Losing Roye for a lot of the season, along with McG in the beginning and then our tragedy with our Corners...no Defense survives by getting into their 5th n 6th CBs as their starters. Its been a tough year statistically.

And yet there we were...beating more talented teams as in Atlanta and KC and defeating a young upstart of a team in the Jets. There we were manhandling the Steelers for the first time since 99 (I don't care if we beat them with hail marys and whatever in the past we never controlled them) not to come up with the win at the end...there we were manhandling the Ravens only to have a dumb line call mistake have us not seal the win but instead turn it over.

You know sometimes people see only what they want to see. No.... We didn't improve much by having Ralph Brown, Holly and Perry as our CBs for most of the year...do you all understand how important 3rd down pcts. are??? Do you not know and understand how this killed us and our defensive STATs all year!!!

Well are those 3 the nucleus of our team to determine whether RAC has shown improvement or not this year???

We did what we had to do. We had to go into a soft zone for most the year or else our corners would have been picked apart for one TD after another.

Am I imagining all the stops we made this year on 4th down??? I can't remember a season with us making so many stops. I remember throughout our return...Steeler games Cowher going for it on 4th down after 4th down and we don't even come close to stopping. As well as other teams.

How many did we stuff this year.
Little things like how many flea flickers have we ran since 99 all sucking and failing we converted 2 in one game.
Shovel pass.

In the beginning with MO and all you geniuses who call him on his play calling <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> While we were one of the most successful teams in the RedZone for TDs...So I'm to listen to you geniuses now on RAC not improving this team... <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Sorry. But I want to see this through...I want us to accumulate 2 more years of talent for this system and coached up within the system. I want to see at least 2 more years of seeing our existing young players get better and better to be considered as Pro-Bowl Talent.

I want to see Davidson continue installing his NE playbook style offense. I want to see CF get use to making quick decisions and developing a clock. I want to see more progress.

You all - treat this like bringing up your kid. Or when they stumble reading a bit in Pre-School and Kindergarten you just tell them... YOU SUCK!!!! YOU WILL NEVER READ!!!

Silly huh. Well just as silly as saying...I've seen enough this 4 professed 4 year plan...nonono - I am a genius and in 2 years I KNOW!! We are heading in the wrong direction.

Well sorry...Me I don't know. I don't agree with everything. I think the team because so many key ingredients are young...guess this now NEEDS TO MATURE. But what do I know <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

JMHO

The only thing I would have come back on is that in some of those other places they're winning or have a better won-lost record.
Otherwise when U have players like the jail Bungals, T.O. and the like U get disruptions..
Heck Tuna has to be Bellyaching over Owens..or the fact he might not want to return next year.
Just jettisoning Rac now is a knee jerk reaction.

People do seem to forget that the hope at the begining of this season was unrealistically based on everyone maintining their health. We just don't have the depth..through the draft, that we should.

If this was another team we wouldn't even have a second thought about people like Issac Sowells, or BABA not playing, but since our peices upfront were so bad to begin with everyone harps on the drafts picks as if they should be studs starting day one on any NFL team, and that it is the caoching staffs fault they aren't.

If this was another team these guys would fly under the radar until they WERE able to start and they would be deemed hidden gems and not busts.

JMO

um Attack?I have always gotten along with you but I feel the need to shove a dose of castor oil down your gullet. we are 31st in both offense and defense....31st!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

woulda,shoulda,coulda, has no bearing......the secondary was what it was...injured. How it may have performed as a healty unit is nothing more than speculation.

NFL=not for long........how long do you think we should endure RAC's ineptitude? Tell me this...would you rather have a tumor removed from your body after 2 years or 3?

Likening RAC to a tumor seems to be far fetched...IMO

lol...ok how about a rotting tooth?will that analogy suit you?

Exactly, so instead of bringing up all the things they do they should just admit that it's truly all about winning not the rest of the crap they bring up to make their point. Winning cures all ills.

As I always say BRING IT ! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Answer why we rank so low ?
I just explained something....the Dline needs a upgrade but it needed that when Botch was here..
Our LB's are better but YOUNG...
Secondary ..riddled with injuries..McCushion hasn't even played...Baxter out..Bodden hampered by high ankle sprain..only the SS spot was secured down..U gonna tell me that was no factor??
<img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />
Do I even need to go to the offensive side of the ball???
Is the lack of production from a lack of talent/execution or merely bad coaching?
SO what is it dear? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
And I'll be waiting..

I repeat the question......would you rather have a decaying tooth,tumor,bad sparkplug, or whatever removed after 2 years or 3?

But what if it's really your gums causing the problem, not the tooth? <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

in my opinion, romeo will not be the guy who takes us to the super bowl, who wins the superbowl... it won't happen...

but i believe he is still our best option, right now, next year, and maybe even the year after that...

let's remember that he and phil savage are still cleaning up butch davis' mess

let's also remember that butch davis was still cleaning up chris palmer and dwight clark's mess...

i would like to see a better offensive coordinator brought in, someone who can turn this thing around, because the offense makes this team downright unwatchable, even for the most die hard of us browns fans...

although if bill cowher was made available...

You state that as if RAC is a KNOWN ailment (let alone a cancer)- when its only your opinion.
I'd get a second opinion
Is that an option <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

lol.....I knew you couldn't resist for long Miss Misanthrope! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ack! That word again!! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Misanthorpe...good one

:laughs:ok let's split hairs.......who ya gonna get the second opinion from? Me? okay...:eyes the Browns from all angles and delivers her diagnosis: I think the infection needs antibiotics...and the infected tooth need YANKED. That will be $500.00 dollars please

[color:"red"] decaying tooth= Bad offensive linemen
tumor =Braby
bad sparkplug =Dline..
or whatever =Weak assistant coaches[/color]

Remove those and the problem gets fixed now.

It's an inside joke, and if you are going to give her props for what you think is a shot at me....at least spell it correctly. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

And quit stalking.....seriously. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just saying - I'd be darn sure that a part of my body was defective before letting anyone remove it.

If its definitely a cancer/problem - it should go - no question about it.

If it's not, then I'm short another body part for no good reason and well on my way to being nothing but a single eye ball staring at the screen on Sunday's before we finally get this mess of a franchise figured out....

j/c

IMO, most of the ills of this team can be DIRECTLY attributed to the player personnel and that falls squarely at the feet of Savage.

You build strong, consistant football teams with hard workers... smart, self-motivated, and unselfish. In NE, I believe these are the type of players RAC was used to dealing with, and thats exactly what he's missing on this team now (with a few notable exceptions). Get these type of players in here and we'll start winning some football games. They won't need a pep talk to get up for every game and they won't need babysitting or discipline.

You people that blame RAC for players playing lazy or for being too soft are, imo, blaming the wrong person. Blame the players, not the coach. These are grown men that should be EXPECTED to act like professionals.

Get rid of RAC now and we're just going to run into the same problem with a different head coach until the makeup of this team changes for the better... count on it.

And I didn't even mention the level of talent on the two most important units on the team.

Actually I like my second opinion better.
It goes to the heart of the problem..

I think that's an accurate description of the patient doctor. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Look at the Saints(not the Catholic ones this time)....they remade their team with great success after stinking up the place last season. I'll grant you the signing of Brees aided them immensely(note to self:perhaps I need to pick on Savage for not pursuing Brees) We get travis wilson they get Colston...in the 7th round for freaking sake! But in my humble opinion it was the signing of Payton that made that team what it is today...a playoff contender. RAC needs to go the way of the wooly mammoth.

It's difficult to coach when your varsity is in the hospital and you don't have any talent to coach. I'm not ready to fire RAC yet.

Phil explained he took Wilson due to not knowing if Dropcutt is coming back..remember he doesn't REALLY want to be here..and he won't be next season..the Wilson pick was made to prevent Opie from having to take another WR in the draft..
No vet QB was brought in because PHIL..not Rac..PHIL wanted to give the reins to Frye to EVALUATE him for the future..

Honestly, I never expected Phil and RAC to fix this mess in under two years. It's just not possible. I find people's expectations to be wildly unfounded.

There's no way they could fix eveything..now there are newer problems cropping up..it's making this offseason the most critical..

The problem with using the Saints as an example is that they had a pretty good nucleus to begin with. They were 9-7 in 2002, 8-8 in both 2003-04, then fell backwards to 3-13 last year. I agree that Payton's addition didn't hurt though. That & future Hall of Famer Jeff Faine! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I do also agree that they should look in another direction & replace RAC (as long as the coach runs a 3-4 defense).

[color:"white"]
While true when trying to evaluate the entire team, I'd simply encourage everyone to judge RAC based on what he can control, and nothing more.

With a QB, you evaluate him based on his arm, his smarts, his mobility, and his moxy, not on his line, his back, the weather, and a ham sandwich.

How does RAC handle half-time adjustments?
How does RAC handle problem players?
How does RAC handle the media?
How does RAC do at calling a game?
How does RAC handle his coaches?
How does RAC handle problems?

These are the questions to focus on, not the end result in the wins and losses column. [/color]

Not going to answer those as when Lerner/Opie/Rac meet those and other questions will be asked and answered..
As I listened to his presser he said they were going to discuss what went wrong and why..
He was asked about sweeping changes in the organization..
So this is what I see as the end result..
I think Rac will be given one more year but one or some of his assistants might get the boot..or demoted..


I don't see anyone on the staff Romeo would die for. He let Carthon go and I think that was the one that was hardest for him to let go.
So I don't think Romeo will be baited into resigning.As in if this person(s) aren't gone U are.

I think Romeo agrees to everything asked of him and Lerner has to go one more year with him. But if he looks clueless next season, or fails to address something we'll know a change is coming by game 8.

Oh I like the idea of using the Saints to make a point. Lets answer me this.. How many people do the Saint's have on IR?

The answer is SIX. Of those 6.. How many are Offensive Linemen? The answer is ONE. The Saints have had the same lineup left to right from the get go. Ya think this does anything for the teams success?

By contrast, the Browns currently have 14 people on the IR. And the number of starters on that IR list is equal to the entire list of Saint's that are on IR.

Upon further reflection, that list does not include Tucker. So really that number should be 15.

[color:"white"]To me, that's the most likely scenario.

As far as my own personal belief goes, if we're more likely to send him packing, I'd rather cut the cord now and go into the draft and free agency period with a clean slate.

Maybe it's time for my anual rant about the WCO <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Anyone know how Jeff Garcia is doing? [/color]

There are 31 other GM/Scouting Directors that you can hang that one on just as easily. Would they like Colston... sure. The key is to have the players that you draft or sign turn into productive ones. Right now Hamilton has seen a sniff of playing time and all indications are that he may fit in.

If you want to pick on Savage, there are better topics... Wilson, Sowells and Williams for sure, but not Hamilton.

Agreed... here are my thoughts on the questions you raised.


You say to judge him by what he can control, but I think halftime adjustments is often directly linked player talent. If our guards can't pull, if they can't do what we need them to do effectively (and RAC has recently mentioned that they haven't been), I think this hampers HIS ability to make halftime adjustments. I'm not a football guru... I don't know the in's and out's enough to judge this, but this is a hard question to answer when you KNOW the talent you have to work with is more limited than your opponents. If our running game is stagnate, but it looks like we might be able to run if we start pulling Andruzzi, would you do it? Do you think Andruzzi's (in)ability to pull might factor into the decision? I don't see how you could ignore that. That said, it's certainly been a mixed bag with Romeo... difficult to judge and certainly open for interpretation.


Another mixed bag. KW2 certainly has toned done but Braylon has been a problem. Why has he been successful with one and a failure with the other? IT'S THE PLAYERS. I don't care how he handles problem players because it's my contention that we SHOULD NOT HAVE problem players on this team. Period. He shouldn't have to deal with them and Savage shouldn't be giving him any. This goes back to my first post in this thread.


I don't really care much about this, but I'd be interested in hearing why you feel it's important... unless a head coach is grotesquely bad with the media, it's a non-issue with me. As far as I'm concerned, RAC has been fine. He's as candid as he needs to be, and it'll only get easier if they just start winning.


Unfathomably bad with replays. Average clock management. You've watched the games in great detail (I usually do that for the first half, and then just get tired... hahah). Seems to me that a lot of the plays fail to do bad execution and not necessarily bad play calls. Players missing their blocks... defenders wiffing on their tackles. You say to judge RAC on what he controls, but when plays don't work because of bad execution, do you blame the player or the coach for putting them in that play? Either way it's intertwined and given the obvious lack of talent we have, I don't know how you can give an 100% rock solid opinion on his gameplans. He's proven he knows what to do in NE... atleast on the defensive side of the ball when he has the talent. I don't think he's forgotten all that.


I have no idea what goes on behind the doors in Berea, do you? What he says to the media and what you see on the sideline during gameday is only part of the story. I won't make an opinion based on ignorance.


This question is really too general, but I'll just offer my opinion that I like his calm demenor in most cases when confronted with issues. I don't want a coach that exercises knee-jerk reactions or loses his temper on the sidelines. I want him to take care of problems, but he doesn't need to show me emotions so I know he "gets" it.

With an influx of talent (hopefully) this offseason, we'll have a much better idea on two of the questions you asked (half-time adjustments and calling a game). Those two are far more important than the others and should be what decides his fate.... next year.

Uhhh, Charger, have you been watching the last few games??? Leon Williams has looked like HE should have been playing ALL season. I think we will see Wilson a LOT more next season, Cutt's replacement at WR. Sowells will also get his shot next season, so we can't pass judgement on these players until we see them consistantly play week after week in some games. I'm thinking we are going to be pleasantly surprised by a few of these younger guys that you have mentioned. IMO

I do not have an issue with Williams play. You are absolutly correct. My question is with the selection of Jackson in the 2nd, and the signing of Davis to an extension, there were other areas of the team that could have been addressed.

Barry Coefield
Parys Haralyson
Elvis Dumerville
Victor Adeyanju

Any of those players were available.. and slotted.

Correct......it is the weak link of the TEAM by far


No argument here


LOL....well, they weren't, and we sucked. Baxter is the only one who was really injured who mattered....and bubba...he ain't playing again.


Maintain it? We get torched every week.

It isn't better.

Bottom line is we are next to last in the league in total D.

Even if we were last last year....that might be better, but sorry, it isn't anywhere near good enough for a coach who is seen as a defensive coach.

RAC sucked when he was here as our coordinator under Palmer. Something rells me he wasn't the guy who devised the patriots D and set all the schemes....I think he was in a good position that made him look good.

If he was that good, we would be a little better than 31st.

[color:"white"] RAC sucked when he was here as our coordinator under Palmer. Something rells me he wasn't the guy who devised the patriots D and set all the schemes....I think he was in a good position that made him look good.

If he was that good, we would be a little better than 31st. [/color]

And that is what really worries me. And this is what should worry the Browns.....I was discussing the Browns today with my wife and I mentioned my season tickets. And I said that if they can't manage at least a .500 record next season then my PSL's are going up for sale. I can't take the losing much longer. And it's not just the losing. It's the looking like a bad High School team when we lose. That's what makes it almost unbearable for me. And I doubt I'm the only one who feels this way.

Another year like this and I'm taking up Bocce Ball on Sundays. Or drinking......Hmmmmm.......

This worries me too. I go to school with a family friend of Eric Mangini. Back when we hired Crennel I was excited and told him how happy I was, and he looked at me and said I was going to be dissapointed. He said it was all Belichick and Mangini in NE, and the only reason Crennel was DC over Mangini in NE was experience and age, sort of a pay your dues thing. At the time I dismissed this as simply him defending and pimping his family friend Mangini, but I am beginning to think he may have been right.

Well, of course, that was something that was in the back of all of our minds when he was hired. BUT, we still don't know if that's true or not. We changed our whole defense scheme to a 3-4. most of our D-Line went to another team. The injuries at CB. It's too hard to tell at this point.

I'll give you a little ammo for your arguement. In N.E. Belleyache takes a bum off the bench and turns him into the league leader in INT's...he takes an old WR and plays him at DB...and their D doesn't miss a beat (it seems).

Still though, with the total ineptness of our O...our young, injury riddled D really didn't stand much of a fighting chance.

Let's go heavy on the OL & DL this offseason and see what happens next year. What I want from Romeo right now is for him to eliminate the mouths of the players from being negative (BE...and to some extent KW2 and anyone else that may take their lead).