DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum QB purgatory: Path for Giants, Browns and five other teams to change their fate at NFL's most crucial position

I didn't quite feel this qualified as "Pure Football" so I thougtht I would post it here........

Nothing is worse than being stuck in the middle at quarterback

Quarterback play falls into three categories for the most part. There are star quarterbacks capable of elevating a team and leading them to a Super Bowl. There are the struggling quarterbacks who make it quite clear it's time to move on. Then there's the middle ground -- QB purgatory: The average-to-above-average starters aren't quite good enough to lead their team to the holy grail, but not quite bad enough to start over from scratch. They can win a playoff game once in a while and maybe even a title if all the stars align, but usually they leave a team muddled in mediocrity.

QB purgatory is the worst space for a team to be in. Take the Giants for example. It looked like Daniel Jones' days in New York were numbered through three seasons, but then Brian Daboll came along. Jones cut down the turnovers, showed upside with over 700 rushing yards and led New York to a playoff win in his contract season with a bad supporting cast.

That put the Giants in a tough position. They could have let Jones walk and started over at quarterback. But drafting one is a complete crapshoot. First-round quarterbacks under the new CBA (since 2011) sign a second contract with their debut team less than 40 percent of the time. The success rate isn't even a coin flip.

They could have given Jones a franchise tag, but they preferred slapping the tag on Saquon Barkley, their injury prone star running back. So the Giants did what a lot of teams do in QB purgatory. They overpaid for an average starting quarterback because that's the going rate for them. In case you don't believe me, these quarterbacks -- Joe Flacco, Derek Carr, Matthew Stafford, Jimmy Garoppolo, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff and Dak Prescott -- all once got the "highest-paid QB of all time" label by some financial measure.

Jones didn't join that club, but he did get a four-year pact worth $160 million. It was such a lucrative deal that the Giants didn't have an easy out when he regressed in 2024 and then missed the second half of the season with a torn ACL. It would cost New York nearly $70 million to cut Jones this offseason, hampering its ability to build the best team around a new quarterback, had they liked any of the six taken in the first round.

Let's not pity the Giants too much. The Raiders had Derek Carr for nine seasons. He set a few franchise records there, but put up league average numbers for nearly a decade. He made over $130 million with the Raiders despite never winning a playoff game due to his play and a terrible defense. It's not a knock on career, by the way. Being an average starting quarterback (the most difficult position in sports) for any amount of time is an incredible achievement. But, as a fan I'd like to know my team either has a potential superstar quarterback or is moving to acquire one.

So, are there ever happy endings in QB purgatory? Sure, but only a few. Here's one way to look at it. Only seven quarterbacks have ever won a Super Bowl after failing to reach a conference championship game through six seasons. In other words, if they have flirted with elite play and a playoff run yet, they probably never will. Matthew Stafford is the only one to do it in the last two decades. The others were Jim Plunkett, Joe Theismann, Phil Simms, Steve Young, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson.

For the most part, those are pretty good quarterbacks (with the exception of Steve Young who is an all-time great) who had things break the right way for a Super Bowl run. Look at Theismann, Simms, Dilfer, Johnson and Stafford. Washington had the top-ranked defense in 1982. The 1986 Giants had Bill Belichick at DC and Lawrence Taylor. The 2000 Ravens and 2002 Buccaneers are two of the best defenses ever and the 2021 Rams had three potential future Hall of Famers on defense with Aaron Donald, Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey.

Stafford is one of the true exceptions. Most would have said Detroit was in QB purgatory with him after 12 seasons and zero playoff wins. Not the Rams. They bet on his arm talent, went all in with pieces around him and were rewarded with a Super Bowl.

That's one example teams currently in QB purgatory can point to for some hope, but the stars have to align. With that being said, here's the path out of QB purgatory for seven teams right now. For this exercise, I looked at expensive veteran quarterbacks who are either already in this range, or approaching the range of six-plus seasons and no conference title games.

Cowboys (Dak Prescott)

You might be thinking, Dallas is in QB purgatory, really?!? Dak Prescott is a perennial top-10 quarterback who was last year's MVP runner-up. Well, Dallas has two playoff wins in eight seasons with Prescott (despite having an all-around good team) and has never made a conference title game with him. His last contract made him the highest-paid quarterback in the league at the time, and he is now entering a contract year where the cycle seems doomed to repeat itself. I wrote Thursday about how if Dallas hasn't gotten it done with Dak yet, they never will. That's because no quarterback has ever won a Super Bowl with his draft team after failing to reach a conference title game through eight seasons.

History is meant to be rewritten, so what's Dallas' path to getting there? It's Jerry Jones the owner firing Jerry Jones the GM. The Cowboys are one of five teams without a conference title game since the 1996 season, along with the Texans, Browns, Dolphins and Commanders. Dallas has the same GM during that span (Jones), while the other four teams have combined for 26, and all have had at least five. Jones is the common thread amid all the coaches, quarterbacks and different struggles Dallas has had in the playoffs over that time.

Jones should hold himself accountable by relieving himself of general manager duties, but that's never going to happen, and he's said as much in the past. It's time to revisit that idea, though, as Dallas has sunk to new lows. It trailed Green Bay 27-0 at home this past postseason, another one-and-done result. The Cowboys have won 36 games in the last three years, the most in a three-year span without a conference title appearance in NFL history.

The next realistic path is Prescott elevating his play against the best competition. He is 63-18 in his career against teams that finish with under 10 wins (.778 win percentage) and 12-28 against 10-plus-win teams, including playoffs (.300 win percentage). It's the third-largest win percentage drop-off by any quarterback since the merger, better than only Matthew Stafford and Kirk Cousins (minimum 40 starts). He has thrown far too many interceptions against those good teams (38 in 40 starts vs. 43 in 81 starts against teams with under 10 wins), including seven picks in seven playoff starts.

Browns (Deshaun Watson)

For decades, the Browns have been in a quarterback camp where the decision is obvious. It's time to start over at the position, and they have, famously sporting the most different starting quarterbacks in the entire NFL since returning to the league in 1999. So naturally out of desperation, they made the biggest investment in NFL history in an attempt to land a franchise quarterback, to the tune of three first-round picks and $230 million in guarantees for Deshaun Watson. It hasn't worked out so far. Watson has been mostly unavailable due to suspension and injury, and hasn't even been the first- or second-best quarterback on the team in the last two years. Jacoby Brissett and Joe Flacco performed better.

So what's next in Cleveland? Ideally, Watson would return to superstar form and lead a Browns team to a Super Bowl with the help of a No. 1 defense and a host of weapons that includes Nick Chubb, Amari Cooper, Elijah Moore, Jerry Jeudy and David Njoku. That's unlikely to happen, though. Watson's running ability is only going to continue to diminish, plus his deep ball has suffered in Cleveland, and that was before he had surgery on his throwing shoulder. We also have no idea where the mental part of his game is at after he faced roughly two dozen lawsuits for alleged sexual misconduct. The most likely path out of this mess for Cleveland is for Watson to get Wally Pipped. It happened to Drew Bledsoe, Tony Romo and Alex Smith among others, so it could happen to Watson, especially considering what Joe Flacco came off the streets to do last year. The quarterback to supplant him is probably not on the current roster, though former No. 1 overall pick Jameis Winston could have something to say about that.

Giants (Daniel Jones)

The Giants dilemma is well documented at the top. So what's the next move? See if Jones can prove himself healthy in 2024 and capable of making plays down the field after New York drafted WR Malik Nabers sixth overall. Jones was a game manager at times in 2022, posting the lowest interception rate in the NFL, coupled with the second-shortest average pass length in the league. That formula isn't going to work for a deep playoff run unless this defense suddenly becomes one of the best in the league. If Jones can't take a step forward with a better supporting cast, I'm sure Giants fans are hoping they can draft someone like Shadeur Sanders in 2025, or Arch Manning in 2026.

Buccaneers (Baker Mayfield)

Baker Mayfield signed a three-year deal worth $100 million to stay in Tampa Bay after leading the Bucs to a playoff win last year. Given Mayfield's up-and-down career, his mostly average season in 2023 before breakout performances down the stretch and in the postseason, I'd say the Buccaneers are firmly in QB purgatory.

The way out? Well, Tom Brady isn't coming out of retirement and neither is the 2002 Buccaneers defense, so I think this Tampa Bay team has probably hit its ceiling. For what it's worth, Ryan Wilson has them drafting Texas quarterback Quinn Ewers in his way-too-early 2025 mock draft.

Saints (Derek Carr)

Derek Carr has been an average NFL starting quarterback for a long time, and nothing happened last year to change that as New Orleans couldn't win a weak division with a top-10 defense and veteran quarterback. Drew Brees isn't walking through that door anytime soon so the Saints need to draft a quarterback in the first round for the first time since 1971 when they selected Archie Manning second overall. How fitting would it be if they ended that drought by picking his grandson Arch Manning? The Saints' path out of QB purgatory is to draft a QB in 2025. They could also wait to potentially take Manning in 2026, when he is first draft eligible.

Seahawks (Geno Smith)

I'm a big Geno Smith fan. I loved his comeback story in 2022 and believe in his arm talent. However, his numbers fell off a bit in 2023 despite a nice trio of WRs to throw to. He's also never won a playoff game in 11 seasons, which have been mostly spent as a backup. For now, the plan has to be to give Smith one more year to lead Seattle on a playoff run, or else he's probably a bridge in 2025 to a quarterback of the future.

Seattle's path to a playoff run has to do more with its defense than Smith. They hired former Ravens DC Mike Macdonald as their head coach, so it's time for the Seahawks to return to the "Legion of Boom" days. There are pieces on defense with Devon Witherspoon, Tariq Woolen, Boye Mafe, Leonard Williams and rookie first-round pick Byron Murphy II. Seattle still needs to follow the 2021 Rams blueprint and look for any way to upgrade its defense by the 2024 trade deadline. Edge rushers are king, so if I'm Seattle I'm looking at these players in a contract year in case their teams fall out of contention: Khalil Mack (Chargers), Matt Judon (Patriots) and Haason Reddick (Jets).

Cardinals (Kyler Murray)

Apparently, Kyler Murray showed the Cardinals' new regime enough in 2023 coming off a torn ACL to get a vote of confidence and a brand new No. 1 WR in Marvin Harrison Jr. This doesn't change the fact that Arizona is in QB purgatory. Murray is among the highest-paid quarterbacks in the NFL and enters Year 6 with zero career playoff wins and more questions than answers regarding his future. Arizona's hand was pretty much forced as cutting Murray would have cost over $100 million in dead money this offseason.

The path out is Super Bowl contention by improving Murray's supporting cast enough to help him take a leap similar to how No. 1 wideouts helped the careers of Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts. Also, you only have to go back to 2021 when the Cardinals were 7-0 and Murray was an early season MVP candidate, surrounded by weapons like DeAndre Hopkins and Christian Kirk. It fell apart down the stretch, as it often did with Kliff Kingsbury, but at least Murray showed MVP flashes. Murray ranked bottom three in the NFL in completion rate to wide receivers last year, and on passes 15-plus yards downfield. Let's see how much Harrison can elevate Murray and if second-year head coach Jonathan Gannon can eventually build a good defense.

Coming soon (Dolphins and Tua Tagovailoa)

If there's one team heading toward QB purgatory it's the Dolphins with Tua Tagovailoa. Whether it's been injury, cold weather or poor performance, Tua and Miami have crumbled down the stretch in back-to-back years after getting off to historic starts on offense. The Dolphins should hold off on extending Tagovailoa until the team proves it can make a playoff run with him under center. He was just 1-6 with eight touchdowns and seven picks vs. playoff teams last year, which doesn't inspire enough confidence for a long-term deal worth $50 million per year. He can play on the fifth-year option in 2024 and they can franchise tag him in 2025 if necessary.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...6lwVzMn1NO_5YPWy3TzMOvRNaVqbvkAjaBFs2TX_

Pretty garbage low rez, click-baity take imo. DW may end up washing out but I’d predict because of injury rather than the long ball and running skills are supposedly dropping off. I guess we’ll see. He’s teed up for success this year. Barring injury, this is the prove it year

At least we aren't still in the Manziel-Hoyer days with Pettine trying to call plays.

I liked reading this article.
I actually liked reading this article.

The article was actually surprisingly good with some interesting stats about early success vs later success.

Honestly, I had a hard time getting past "Nothing is worse than being stuck in the middle at quarterback."

Their team obviously never went through a period of a black hole at QB. I'm pretty sure being stuck at the bottom is much worse than the middle.

Seeing basic competence and your team losing is not as bad as knowing your team likely has little chance before they step on the field and wanting to gouge your eyes out rather than watch any more of the horrific play you see at QB before halftime, but being unable to look away from the trainwreck.

It is better but the middle is not what three first round draft picks and 230 million is supposed to buy you.

This article was simply food for thought. As of now based on the previous two seasons we are in QB purgatory. Nobody can say with any certainty if the Browns have the QB that will put them over the top.

The good side of it is that watson will be going into year three healthy and without any forthcoming suspensions so hopefully we'll get a better idea of where the Browns are moving forward at the QB position.

There are three years left on his contract so the jury is far from in as to whether the Browns will remain in QB purgatory or move forward from there.

We're not in QB purgatory. We're on the cusp of football heaven. What we primarily need to do is stay relatively healthy. Alas, health on the gridiron is never guaranteed.

You posting something so that people would actually think about it? Good one. Think what you think about it? Maybe. Actually think about it? Yep, that's probably what you wanted.

I suppose this could be the outlier, but you told me I'm supposed to always stick with the "overwhelming evidence."

I'm willing to wager that outside of Browns fans, 97% of NFL fans don't believe the Browns are " on the cusp of football heaven". Considering that there are fans of 31 other NFL teams there's zero evidence to support your 97% claim.

In the real world you are what you are until you aren't. Feelings don't outweigh the evidence at hand. At least not to most people. They may be on the cusp of greatness. But they jury is far from being in on that supposition.

Feelings don't outweigh evidence, but "what fans believe" is feelings, not evidence. You complain about me using the lottery as an example, but you are "willing to wager."

In the real world, you are what you are regardless of what other people feel about you-- Regardless of how you are perceived. Unfortunately, one's response to how one is perceived can have an effect. Similarly, how one perceives his or her self, doesn't necessarily line up with what they actually are.

You are the one that keeps pointing out 97% and making claims about it. I keep saying you are too focused on numbers that don't tell the whole story.

As someone that has pretty much always been an outlier, being told that outliers should be ignored feels rather personal. Feels even more personal when you literally ignore what I say and argue against something you made up and say that I said.

I wish I weren't an outlier, but unfortunately my feelings don't change what I am. Not everyone falls in the middle of the bell curve. Sure, the majority exists in the middle, but that doesn't make them always right. In truth, a fair bit of the time, the majority knows a lot less than the few. But, you find comfort in the middle of your herd. That's fine. You are what you are. Some people were born to be sheeple. They want to be safe with the 97%. Some few want to know the hard truths rather than the comforting narratives. One can tell stories with numbers just as easily as with words, yet numbers seem to have some "magical" hold over some people. "Those are the numbers" you say, like that tells you everything you need to know. How did they arrive at the numbers? "They polled all the scientists." ...Sure, they did. Who polled the scientists? "Umm, I dunno, but look at the numbers." How did they phrase the question? "Ummm, what was the question again? You're claiming that 97% of scientists are wrong!"


The Browns have the potential to win a Superbowl. I think most educated observers of the NFL would agree to that. Personally, it feels like they have a legitimate chance. To me, that's on the cusp. I'm not one to make up a percentage to put on it. There's too many things that could happen, and too much that I just don't know. People thinking they know things that they don't actually know because some "body" put a percentage on something, somewhere is cringeworthy to me.

Feelings aren't based on a players performance. When the price you pay for a player is this high, that player either performs to the level you're paying him to play or he doesn't.

An NFL team doesn't give up 3 first round draft picks and 230 mil. guaranteed for "basic competence".

Making outrageous claims based on nothing such as saying, " We're on the cusp of football heaven" is what saying things based on feelings actually sounds like with nothing more than that to base it on.

He'll either perform to what he's getting paid or he won't. There are several teams in the NFL that "have the potential to win a Superbowl". Problem being many of them don't.

All of your long winded double talk won't change any of that.

...what do people base their feelings about players on? That player's performance feels like something that goes into the mix for a lot of fans.

Presenting lousy arguments that no one made and trying to knock them down doesn't address the issues that you avoid.

Was it an outrageous claim? If we win the Superbowl next year, it would then be a true "claim." Yet, I didn't claim that there is a 97% chance that we will win the Superbowl. I expressed a sentiment on a sports message board about what I thought was in a reasonable realm of possibility next season. I didn't make some grandiose claim of fact and "science." I didn't ignore the fact that they might not win a Superbowl. You do more than enough making claims (frequently for other people flying completely in the face of what they actually said) and ignoring things that you don't like.

There are several teams that "have the potential to win the Superbowl." I'd consider them on the cusp, too. Are you claiming we don't have the potential to win a Superbowl?

You're probably right. I can't change the garbage you wrote. It's there on the board unless you or a mod edit/delete it. Less literally, You'll probably still make the same sort of poor arguments no matter how long I try to get you to stop being a short sighted ostrich/lemming with a penchant for attempting misdirection whose purposes only you could possibly (un)tangle. I can't change that either. Only you can change your ways.

What I said was that many teams have the potential to win the SB. And yes the browns are one of them. But most teams with that potential won't win much less get to play in the SB. And there are certainly teams with a higher potential. Just because something is possible doesn't make it probable. It's sad that all you have left in your quiver are personal attacks with zero substance.

Once again, either watson will live up to his pay scale or he won't. As of yet he since he has been here he hasn't and he hasn't played up to his potential since the 2020 season. All of your personal rhetoric won't change any of that.

#triggered

You like to make everything about manufactured probabilities. I tend to think in possibilities. The probability of something happening over time has no impact on a specific incident. Without knowing the details of a specific incident, using generic probabilities is really just guessing. Your use of absolutes like "certainly" is so "funny" as much as you point at percentages.

I'm not attacking you personally. I'm condemning your behavior and actions. Its hard not to respond to those, when those are what you give me to respond to. It's really hard to have a substantive conversation when you avoid everything I say and retort with random platitudes and the most superficial aspects of other people's arguments/"studies".

Once again, nowhere in my post did I mention Watson's pay scale. It seems like you are once again letting your feelings against Watson overwhelm your reason.

Yes, I find Trump-like behavior triggering. Saying blatant falsehoods, trying to change the subject, and pretending you didn't just post something ridiculous is exceedingly tiresome. The whole "yes, I did something wrong but I'm going to pretend that it's okay or it didn't happen because telling me I'm wrong is mean and you're a meanie" thing is pathetic.

He was factually paid on a scale that his performance should be commensurate to. It either will meet that or it won't. Empty platitudes and meaningless attacks to try to put the focus on me rather than the reality is pretty much all you've done. Which considering the points you're trying to make that would appear to be the only avenue you truly have left.

You can't deny odds. (Well perhaps you can since you do it on a consistent basis) You can hope to beat them and it is a possibility. However it's not a likelihood. Somehow you believe your theories outweigh mathematical probability but they don't.

Now carry on with your long winded response to avoid these basic realities.

We will know in a year or two (or three) if the trade was a good one, or a massive failure. Only time will tell. But I do agree with you that there is a certain level of expectation from a player for whom you gave up a treasure trove of picks, not to mention the $230 million thing.
So far, it has not been a good trade. At this point, however, the trade is looking pretty good for the Texans.

And that's what I've said all along. There are three years to change the narrative. The story is far from written. All we have thus far is a progress report based on where things stand at this juncture.

Probabilities have no effect on what actually happens. It works the other way around. What actually happens is how they come up with probabilities. If circumstances are different, the generic probability doesn't apply. You keep trying to apply made up, one size fits all beliefs to every situation. Unfortunately, what people think should happen has no effect on what actually happens. Every situation is different. You are the one that seems to want to replace reality with your believed probabilities.

Are we in RT purgatory because Conklin didn't live up to his contract? Saying Watson didn't live up to what you wanted is something completely different than being in purgatory or any other sensationalized spewing and misrepresentation of reality you want to try to throw numbers at to support.

What were the parameters of Watson's contract? Did he guarantee he would throw for 5,000 yards and 40+ TDs every season? No. He lived up to the letter of his deal. Did he meet your outlandish expectations with no consideration of surrounding circumstances? No. He's still capable of being a good QB. What has happened doesn't control what happens in the future.

What will happen is not constrained by what has happened. Sadly, things aren't as easily predictable as you keep trying to present them. The unexpected happens.

Here's one of your platitudes for you. The only constant in life is change. It's not absolutely true, but it sounds good and some people might find it worth considering in this context.

It's not an attack. It's a call to account of the inaccurate ramblings clothed as science that you espouse. Make up another theory I don't believe to set against your bad math, and I'll point out where you are wrong/inaccurate/misapplying and/or setting up strawmen again.

Mmmmm hmmm. Yes, please do go on.........

Nah, my self-imposed victory condition of you not even attempting to put forth a counterargument has been attained. My work here is done for now.

I think the gap between the two is pretty thin.

The gap between winning the Superbowl or not is thin. I'm not sure not winning the Superbowl really constitutes suffering/purgatory for me. I'll grant that different people can have different ideas of purgatory.

I've never heard unsubstantiated feelings referred to as work or facts before. But please, do go on.

Apparently there is a lot that you haven't heard before.

Yes, dealing with your outrageous, baseless claims has been an eye opening experience.

Funny, it seemed like you kept squeezing your eyes shut, ignoring what my claims actually were, and making things up.

But then you think "fully" and "in part" go together, so you thinking eye opening and covering your eyes are the same thing isn't that surprising.

Do you actually have any comments about this thread or is your obsession about what was posted in the political forum so overwhelming for you that you carry it around with you everywhere you go?

I replied to a post you made in this thread that had no relevance to the topic in the title and addressed towards me. Apparently you believe that only you should do so and that your doing it is somehow different than my doing it. But then trying to apply different standards to others and yourself seems to be a Pit special (you're not alone.)

It is... unfortunate... that your seeming insistence that you're not wrong when you are clearly wrong consistently derails threads.

The problem isn't so much the individual things in individual threads it's that you seem to do the same wrong things in every thread that you are in, and then expect people not to comment on the trend.

I could not post anywhere to avoid you, but that kind of defeats the purpose of visiting a message board.

On the topic,

It's a junk article using emotion laden language written to stir up feelings when there's nothing really going on. Their path for the Browns isn't a path, but some vague nothing burger. Changing fate? Come on. Really?

I disagree completely.

We absolutely are in QB Purgatory.
We merely have the POTENTIAL of being on the cusp of football heaven.

The amount of evidence suggesting a continuation of purgatory far outweighs the hints at growing out of it.
We are what we are until we prove we are now something else.... and, we ARE a QB Purgatory team, thus far.

Multiple coach of the year awards, multiple recent playoff appearances. We have 3 QBs that have Pro Bowls on their resumes on our roster (hard to believe, but true.)

That doesn't seem like purgatory any more. Kessler, Kizer, Hogan was purgatory. This isn't heaven, and maybe one could argue the off the field stuff leaves a particular fan suffering over that. On the field, this is really pretty far from those dark days if one takes the time to consider it, it seems to me. We haven't proven we're great, but we're far removed from the Hue years.

What evidence are you using?

You're certainly welcome to your opinion. (And I know you don't need my permission.) I'm just not following how you got there.

From the opening of the new season to the conclusion: Every single team is in QB purgatory.

...every team is in suffering and misery in some way related to the QB...
always?

I'm being literal and over the top with it, but ...yes.

Jets...were they in QB purgatory before last season? Depends on how you classify Aaron Rodgers, but I will say no. How about after the first snap of the season? The answer became yes, this year is questionable b/c of his injury/age.

This can pertain to any QB. Every team is one season injury or career injury from being in purgatory. I don't remember the exact stat, but something like 6 QBs played the whole season.

Basically, I am agreeing with your point of this article is junk drawing up emotions. Though there would a few interesting tidbits in it.


I do want to acknowledge, I understand Pitt wanting to draw up some conversation with the article.

I think I agree with what you are trying to say.

Every team can end up in (QB) purgatory pretty quickly. Yet, we're the farthest away from there that we've been since '99, and I don't see a reasonable way for us to get farther away.

Predicting that something bad could happen doesn't put you already there. Battered Browns Fan Syndrome can make it feel like that is inevitable. I get it, but living in that mindset is kind of a choice/conditioned response rather than an accurate assessment of reality at this moment in time.

JMHO

Literally zero of the things you mentioned (Multiple coach of the year awards, multiple recent playoff appearances. We have 3 QBs that have Pro Bowls on their resumes) have any bearing at all.

The coaching doesn't change what we have at QB, and what we have is not impressive and does not have any recent history of solid play.

What evidence am I using? Literally the last few years of actual performance. No speculation, no projecting, no outside hopes of perceived influences.... actual performance, and that performance screams that we are in Purgatory.
The ONLY QBs to begin lifting us out of that Purgatory are no longer with the team. The one that was perpetuating it is still the starter. I don't say this to hate on any of the players, but IT IS WHAT IT IS. Watson may be a FORMER Pro Bowler, but he is a CURRENT Scrub.

I asked you this.....


I'll take your response the me as a no.

You're allowing facts to be entered into the discussion. You know we can't have that around here! Only deceptive rhetoric is allowed!

Sorry, I haven't posted in a while; I'd forgotten a lot