DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mary Kay reports Jamal Lewis and DA to be re-signed by Brownies

Well, is that not an accurate statement?

But I had to give the devil his due,, he was right... !

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Guess you really didn't read Peens question and response..

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It is possible that I missed it...

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It's already being stirred..

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Of course it is... but we aren't playing football right now... It would be completely different if we were playing football and the one on the field was struggling and the fans were chanting the others name, which, IIRC, happened only a couple times this year and it was early....

Peen I understand what you are saying. But you said what you did on the premise that DA is the starting QB and BQ is the backup. In that scenario sure it doesn't matter.

But there are some here...me included that feel strongly that BQ will win out in any QB competition and become the starter. Then what? That 1st n 3rd round minimum you lay out there is gone. And what if there is no contract offer and he only agrees to the tender for one year. DA will then be a UFA in 09 with no compensation not even much from the NFL FA compensation if he doesn't start in 08. We lose all compensation???

It is pretty simple to me. A team does not put out a Franchise caliber QB who is the ripe age of 24 (will be 25 mid June) out on the market. They would sign him long term and eat the fact that they spent what they did on BQ.

Once its out there its rediculous to set parameters.
Top 10 1st rounder only.
1st rounder and more.

Fact is if he is out there the FO clearly does not feel he's a Franchise type QB. They will not dump him but they will take what the market bares for him. Who sets that market...the fans? You? Me? The Media? no the GMs around the league do.

Supply n demand does.

JMHO

It is only a problem for BQ as it creates a competitive environment.
Thats his reponse about what happens if DA is still here..

I said how is it a problem for him to be in a competitive environment?
If he is not better than DA then he'd be sitting for a long while..
If he's better, then he'll have to prove it, and he should not be afraid to..go get the job...
It's a general thought(and I' ve heard among the Browns coaches) that the things DA is deficient in are the strong points of Quinn...

Just like it was put out for DA to beat out Frye..the same thing will be there for BQ...

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IMO QB's are to important to a team, to have a stiff as your second stringer. Way to many QB's go down to injury during the football season, and not having a solid backup can ruin a teams season quicker than our offensive line in 1999 could give up a sack.

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Seeing this line made me chuckle and think of Jim Sorgi. If Peyton Manning were to be injured and Sorgi had to come I doubt seriously if Indy would have ever made the playoffs.

So yes, GM is correct in stating that a QB's value can be very intrinsic to a team. DA's value to this team be it as a starter or as a back-up is definitely worth more than a 2 and 3 round pick. We are fortunate to have both these young men on this team. I can remember a time when we had a serious issue with the qb position and would have given former Mayor Campbell in trade for even a wiff of a good QB (and of course a good OL)).


So my question is this.... How many of you fine folks out there would have given anything to have this QB dilema a few years ago? (of course we didn't have a line worth a damn until kinda last year but definitely this year)

I would rather have a couple of good qb's like we have right now than have a couple of should be parking lot attendants for qb's.

jmo

"Seeing this line made me chuckle and think of Jim Sorgi. If Peyton Manning were to be injured and Sorgi had to come I doubt seriously if Indy would have ever made the playoffs."

Just remember from day one Payton had Tarik Glen protecting his backside (Glen was drafted the previous season) Manning got sacked 21 times this year but it was the Hits he took this season...many more than in any other season.

06 - 14 sacks and a lot less hits after his throws.
05 - 17 "
04 - 13 "

02 wasn't a good season 23 sacks...maybe Glen was hurt? My point is Manning would go through games not getting touched...the Colts haven't had any reason to worry about a backup QB - well at least the Odds had been lowered tremendously as compared with the rest of the league.

Glen is no longer there. It takes two to take his place - Ugoh in there they need a RB or TE to chip his man. Manning has been rushed this season like none other. He has gotten pummelled. Sorgi's time might come sooner than they expect.

Us on the other hand are in that luxery stage where I don't think - Who our Backup QB will be a major personnel problem for us. Take DA...last year 3 starts IR...this year 15 starts...barely got a bruise.

Joe Thomas n Co. should be providing us this luxery for at least 10 more seasons. We will be one of the lucky ones!

JMHO

Thanks for clarifying for me EO. You are very correct in the statement that we are in luxury mode right now. Thanks to our wonderful line we do have it

It will be interesting to see how things progress for Indy with the line they have since Peyton has been sacked more times than DA this year.

I would probably just throw the franchise tag on DA and then shop him to where i want him to go and control the compensation. It would eliminate the potential for DA to play for the Ravens and whether u believe in DA or not i doubt anyone would want to see him twice a year as he has practiced against this defense every day for 3 years.

I think to many get hung up on 1st and 3rd compensation. There is a hell of a difference in value between slot 1 and 32. Then you have to look at the drop off point from tier 1 to tier 2 to tier 3 in the draft.

Control the process with the franchise tag and then u can maximise your options. Hell i think the team is gonna be hurting next year so i would be willing to accept a 1st next year and a pick this year. That would be enticing to a team like Miami or Atlanta. Bottom line just control the process dont just go with first and third hope and prayer.

Facing DA twice a year with the Rats does not SCARE ME IN THE LEAST ... as a matter of fact .... I WOULD LOVE IT ...

when he fadesback now I get ageda and am fearful of what could happen ... that would turn to EXCITEMENT if he played for some one else ...

Then again .. he does have me talking to god more ... PLEASE GOD ... OH PLEASE GOD ...

ageda .... U know .. an upset stomach .. let me guess .. I mispelled ageda so bad u didn't know what i meant ... it didnt look right but I could come up with nuttin better ... *L* .... or does the word ageda just not translate to "Hick" very well ...

U think giving him the non exclusive franchise tag is overvaluing him?
U think someone will take the chance to give us two first-round draft picks as compensation?
Eh...while you may want to control it..I doubt if Phil does this..

No u arent going to get 2 first for DA. But u can release him from the tag and trade him.

Do you mean angina?

Honestly, I really think there is only two RIGHT ways to handle DA..

1. Sign him to a long term deal, keep him and BQ in the fold, let them duke it out in Camp and may the best man win.. you can have both guys long term or you can still trade one. But no matter what, the Browns are in control.

or

2. High Tender and let the chips fall where they may. maybe we get a 1st and 3rd or maybe a different deal is struck that lands us something similar.

With the first choice, you run the risk of dividing the locker room and causing harm to the egos of the two QB's. That's the down side, but I think RAC is good enough and Smart enough to deal with that.

You also lose out on some potential picks in the draft. Unless you do trade the loser of the competition and get some then.

The upside is that we keep two guys in a position that really needs two guys..

The second choice means that we will probably lose DA pretty quick.. and that leaves us with BQ.. who, I get the feeling will be just fine if not great, but at this moment, we don't KNOW that.. it's just the best guess..

It also means that with DA gone and BQ starting, we have Dorsey as the #2 unless we find someone else.

This decision is so simple that I am surprised that it has gone on for so long.

It is the high tender option.

The first and third picks as compensation could be used to build the d.

Quinn will be fine. Probably when all is said and done, better than Anderson.

Savage made a big move to get him, so I don't see him sitting on the bench.

I don't see the Franchise tag on Anderson, It is too much money for a QB, and that will hurt the Browns in FA. I also doubt that he would be willing to sign a long term contract with Quinn on the roster.

Next year, Anderson is an UFA, so now is the time to get value for him.

Phil won't make the same mistake that SD did with Brees.

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Phil won't make the same mistake that SD did with Brees.

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I don't think he will either,.,

Personally, it could have been that SD took a gamble on the whole Brees thing. remember he was injured and that it was thought it was one of those things that it would take a long time to come back from..

Perhaps SD thought that instead of taging him again, they could just sit back and other teams would pass on him,, then they could pounce on him for low bucks,,, if that's what they thought,, wow,, monumental error...

Didn't know you were Italian

j/c

Stats are only part of the picture...

Here are DA's stats from NFL.com

The #9 rated NFL QB. Derek Anderson CLE QB 298 527 56.5 32.9 3,787 7.2 236.7 29 19 187 35.5 78T 53 6 14 82.5

DA is a top ten rated QB overall by stats kept and published by the NFL...

It's easy to look at only the obvious areas of improvement or weakness... When you look at the overall numbers and ranking, the story on DA is much different than the one you tried to project here/above... As with any team sport there are many other tangeble and intangebles to consider...

Are you really trying to represent that the 9th rated NFL QB statistically is not worth a 1st round pick??? Hum...

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DA is what, the 17th ranked QB in the NFL?
And ranks 28th in completion pct.

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Gotta love the selective use of stats and all those people who typically bash people who use stats just happened to miss this one, eh? LMAO

Let me tell you something..........points scored is more important that QB rating and completion percentage. WAY MORE IMPORTANT!

Touchdowns are more important than either of your two selective stats.

TD to Interception Ratio is way more important than you bullcrap stats.

Well.........I think we were about 8th in the league in scoring----------DA was 5th in TD passes--------------and he had a plus 10 TD to Interception ratio. Who was the last QB in Cleveland who accomplished those things?

What........stats are for losers? Yeah, they are.........especially when you misrepresent them. Unless of course, you would rather have a QB who has a high completion percentage and higher QB rating............but doesn't score points or throws touchdowns.

You are only 14? Wow.......never would have guessed that. Do you play football for your middle school team? If so, what position? You should be able to start lifting this summer. If you do, don't lift to add bulk. Do a lot of resistance stuff and try to lengthen your muscles.

To your post:

I hope these guys don't trash you for not only defending DA, but actually seeming to favor him. I'll try and keep them off of you.

Now, with that said........it's unfair to compare the two at this point. I actually think you realized that as you were writing, but you finished your post anyway. That's okay. Just realize this...........we really don't know if BQ has it or not----if DA was a one year wonder-------or if DA can improve a lot over what he did this year. They all fall into the unknown category right now.

So, just as I tell people not to proclaim BQ the savior, it is unwise to say that he isn't better than DA at this point in time. The only one I will give you is that his teammates definitely favor DA right now, even if the fans don't.

Let me tell you this, young man. It was probably wrong to compare the two QBs at this juncture, but your writing is very impressive. Your grammar, sentence structure, command of the language, etc are much better than a lot of people who are twice your age. I'm impressed. You also seem to have an analytical mind, which is somewhat rare in a person your age. I think it is good that you examine the positives and negatives. Did you know that there have been studies done that prove that comparing/contrasting leads to the most learning? So, keep on w/that. I also think you have a strong grasp of the game. You have identified what is important. You are an impressive young man.

One bit of advice before I go. You seem to be fairly intelligent. Use that intelligence to fight the good fight. Don't follow agendas. Don't follow the crowd just so you fit in. Allow logic and reason to be your guide. They will point you in the right direction.

Btw.........if you are a player, PM me and I'll send you some drills. I am not coaching anymore, but I used to and have a wealth of materials. Just this past summer, I worked w/several high school QBs from various schools in my area. It was mostly mechanics, but there are some keys to reading defenses [pre-snap] and reading coverages [post-snap]. Let me know and I would be glad to help you out.

Good Pull Youngin'...Nice...

Two things...And much of what u said is really actually INCOMPLETE...Especially on Quinn...

Very hard to do that comparatively...But u did a good job...

Accuracy...Sorry VERS...Say what u want...But Anderson's accuracy is WAY BELOW NFL STANDARDS...Some say footwork is the problem...I SAY BS...If Anderson misses slants the way he CONSISTENTLY does on a 3 and 5 step drop...The SIMPLEST of form for any NFL QB...Then we gots a MAJOR PROBLEM...

I look at game tape and see the way Anderson throws a football...It looks as though the nose of the ball is pointed to the GROUND as he comes thru...Take a look at that if u can...And I'm talkin' the passes across the middle and in the flats...

Accuracy Advantage DA simply because Quinn is Incomplete...

Decision Making...He seemed to improve on this as the year went along...And I even GIVE him the 4 pick Cincy game...WORST possible time for a collapse but oh well...U cannot tell me the throws he makes 15-20 yards downfield into double and triple coverages are good decisions...SOMEONE'S OPEN...BAD DECISION...

Anderson many times was way 2 quick to either leave the pocket or throw it away...I chalk that up to INEXPERIENCE...All he has to do is move a bit and he buys alot more time...Saw that numerous times yet he dumps it or gets rid of it...THAT LEAVES PLAYS ON THE FIELD...

Again...DA Advantage simply because Quinn is INCOMPLETE...

And don't even get me goin' on any throw that requires TOUCH...Anderson HAS NONE AND U KNOW IT...He guns virtually everything...

Anderson has ALOT of work to do if he's gonna be a bonafide Quailty QB in the NFL...

Quinn needs GAMETIME...INCOMPLETE...

Vers/ Dawg in Dayton

I do realize that it is hard to compare Quinn and DA. We just don't know what we have in him. And that is my whole point. For the future I am actually in favor of Quinn. But, I think that we should try to keep DA for at least one more year. Whether he is a backup or a starter, at least we know we have someone who will win us games at QB. The coaching staff of course has a much better grasp for where Quinn is at than we do. But, from my perspective it seems like it would be best to keep DA for at least one more year as an insurance policy if Quinn doesn't pan out.

Nice read,, you are only 14? Kid, you are way smarter than 90% of the posters on here... present company included...

J/C

I've been reading these battles across different threads and it is really bothers me.

I find it very disconserting that if someone dares call people out on what they say about DA they are attacked. The same thing happened to me when I thought drafting Quinn was a mistake.

People are attacking Vers for personal attacks. maybe I missed what people are so up in arms about. What he has said is nothing more than I have read fro Diam ( my internet buddy), Attack, Dawg in Dayton to name a few.

The fact is a think the mob tends to rule on this board. If someone dares post against the norm and dares to stand up to comments by others than thet get attacked. This isn't just about Vers, but other posters such as Peen. IMO they have way different football IQs but the treatment is the same.

It seems perfectly fine for posters to completely trash DA but it is not ok to come to his defense.

I get what Vers is saying because I have held the same opinion as him, and well before he came back. Maybe I don't get attacked nearly as much for my opinions because I'm easier to dismiss because I don't have the football IQ of Vers and others. Maybe it is because I'm not usually a poster that gets "in your face" like others. Maybe people just ignore me...I know my wife does.

I do know that this is the best Browns board on the net, period. We have more knowledgeable posters compared to flaming idiots around. Maybe some of you should take timeouts and go over to Browns Chat. That board is so bad that for every decent post (there are quite a few) you have to read 20 by people who act like 12 year olds.

I am not saying that everyone who has bad things to say about DA is wrong. I also don't think that people who have problems with certain posters aren't warranted. I am just making general observations.

When the word agenda is used, I tend to laugh my ass off. It is the most overused word on this board. The person it gets used on the most is Diam. Just because Diam wants to father Quinn's baby doesn't make him biased against DA. He has posted many times where he points out where DA is good. He simply thinks Quinn is better because he has watched him play for four years. He is a Notre Dame lover but how many other Domers have you seen him pimping?

The same thing can be said for many who like Quinn over DA. I know Michelle and Jules ( I only mention these two because I consider them friends, therefore I remember most of what they post ) both have more faith in Quinn than DA. They don't trust DA because of his play. It has nothing to do with an agenda but simply an opinion.

Toad is another one. He has hated DA from day one (just like me). He has also reviesed his opinions through the season (just like me). He still hates on DA, not because of a bias, but because of trusting what he has seen.

I'm not going to get into all of the examples I have seen on the other side of the spectrum because they get blasted enough.

Now after getting all that off my chest I do think some do have agendas. I will give one example, Ammo. His constant comment about Frye were a prime example. So many were dripping with distaste that had nothing to do with what actually was happening. He went so far as to post a thread in a shack about him as well as making an assanine jingle. Yes he was right in the end that Frye was not good but that doesn't mean jack when it comes to what and how he said things about Frye.

I know I shouldn't really post this. I should have left it for someone like ddubia who has the respect of all most all posters ( and deservedly so) and who doesn't rant like I do. He is much more articulate and he can actually spell.

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I know I shouldn't really post this. I should have left it for someone like ddubia...

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Funny you said that because ddubia had almost hit the "reply" when he saw your name at the bottom of the screen and decided instead to scroll down and read your post first.

It left nothing more for me to say. You said it all too well and complete.


Don't underestimate yourself. When I tore Ammo a new ass for his Frye antics, (he still won't reply to me even when I respond to him in agreement), you stepped in and scolded me about being so severe. And you were right and I quit without responding to you about it. I felt foolish for my rant.

Now that I'm typing I will say this...

People should be allowed to post their opinions. But when they use misleading stats to try and prove their point it waters down the knowledge base of the board as some will see it as making sense and use it as part of their own opinion. Non-facts get passed along as facts and that doesn't do anyone any good. Expecially those who are here to learn and are fooled by incomplete thoughts and misleading "facts".

The only problem I have with your thoughts would be this.....If anyone throws the word "agenda" around like Vers I'd like to know who that would be. Anyone who disagrees with the man has an agenda. Hell, I posted at the beginning of the season (might have even been as early as draft time) that I thought that RAC would not be retained after the season if we didn't go 8-8. That was all I said. But Vers spent a couple of days trailing me around calling me everything but a moron and claiming that I was disgusting people with my agenda.

Now some on here may have an agenda. I agree with your Ammo example. But those are usually pretty transparent and usually from guys that no one takes all that seriously anyway. An agenda is not the same as an opinion. Vers and some others forget that all the time.

I don't post much on here anymore for just that reason. As soon as you say anything that isn't Damanshot-like (in other words, totally innocuous) someone has to try and rip you a new one. It's tiring.

That's my 2 cents worth.....

This is from Attack...

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In this case when we use the term agenda or the word should be bias..it's used when a posters either issues blame to a person regardless of whether it's deserved or not..or the opposite occurs when a person is defended when they are clearly in the wrong...

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https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...true#Post275114

Now that does seem to happen on here. I think this quote is probably the best I've seen when it comes down to things.

Like I said before I laugh when I see the word agenda used so much. Not because I don't think some have them, but because it is used to broadly.

If you don't think others throw the word "agenda" around you haven't really been paying attention. All you have to do is do a search of the word and you will see.

Read what I said. I didn't say no one else does it. I said no one does it as much as he does. He's a smart guy. He doesn't have to resort to name-calling and belittlement to come out on top in a discussion. But he does it all the time. It's what got him booted for a month (Hell, it might have been 2 months. He was gone about 6 months total 'cause he was so pissed about it.).

BTW, I've been paying plenty of attention. Probably too much.....

It is mostly mob mentality.

When one attacks another, the followers show up and somehow want to add their 2 cents worth.

The same dynamics that took place on the playground with the schoolyard bully. One kid pushes his way around and a group follows.

The difference here is when they finally push the wrong kid around, they don't end up with a bloody nose. They can keep on typing away on their keyboard saying the same childish stuff over and over.

Life on a message board I guess..

I trailed you around? LMAO. You do have a lot of nerve, I will say that for you. It was, and is, just the opposite, as this thread demonstrates. I never mentioned your name on this one.....or any other, but you have now called me out on four posts w/in a few days. But, I trail you around.

Perhaps I should post that lovely PM you sent me.


PDawg--------perhaps the word agenda is over-used and perhaps I overuse it. I just can't think of a kinder word to describe what I think many people are doing on this board........so, it's going to have to be agenda.

I see agenda posts all the time. Why would I think otherwise when people only posts stats from a handful of games, and then don't even put a disclaimer in there that the weather was bad. Tell me.......who would have had brilliant stats in that Buffalo game?

And what is more important...........Completion percentage and your rank in QB rating............or Wins, Points Scored, TD to Interception ratio, and Yds. per pass Attempt? Now, I'm not saying that those first two stats should not be mentioned, but when they are the only stats used to evaluate a QBs play.......well.......let's say something is fishy. Oh, and speaking of stats............I don't know what these are, but I have a feeling we had fewer three and outs than in past seasons...and that we had a better 3rd down conversion rate......and that our red zone offense was pretty effective. But no one wants to talk about those things. They are not as important as completion percentage, qb rating, and a handful of selected games.

Then, we have people saying that DA didn't win any games, but he lost games. I have heard how any QB could have done what he did. I see where hardly anyone acknowledges that he was the team MVP. The fact that his teammates love the guy and give him a lot of credit doesn't mean anything. All we hear about on here are his shortcomings. We hear that the only reason his numbers were so good was because of all the great catches his receivers made, yet no one talks about the drops......and believe me, there were a ton of drops. When you only present one side of the argument repeatedly, well then........I would say that you aren't interested in the truth; you are simply interested in furthering your own point of view. Is that not an agenda?

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When you only present one side of the argument repeatedly, well then........I would say that you aren't interested in the truth; you are simply interested in furthering your own point of view. Is that not an agenda?

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It is.

Just clicking on you Vers.

Hey everyone,

I just want to tell everyone that we should not be this upset at each other after a VERY SURPRISING 10-6 season.

Here's my stance on a couple of issues:

1. In spite of DA's poor footwork and accuracy at times, he played WAY ABOVE everyone's expectations this year...especially Diam's. He put up Starting QB numbers this season. Enough to establish himself himself up there with some of the better QB's in the league. Quinn, on the other hand, was the second QB picked in the draft, even though he ended up falling to us. The kid has enormous potential, even though he's unknown in the NFL so far. Honestly, I feel comfortable with whoever Savage picks out of these two. There's so many weapons on our offense, I'm sure that we'll be a good team either way, as long as we fortify the defense.

2. Romeo is a good head coach. He has made poor decisions at times, but what head coach has not. Hell, half the people on this board are calling Dungy an idiot after the way he treated the Titans game. Some people were calling for Marty to be the new head coach, even though he's never won a Super Bowl. I digress. Besides that, Romeo took his team to 10-6 this year. I want to keep him. This team has definitely moved in the right direction under his leadership. We just accomplished THE BEST RECORD WE'VE HAD SINCE OUR RETURN.

I want to keep Romeo...even more than Chud. Chud is awesome, don't get me wrong, but I'm sure Savage can still find good OC's out there.

Now that I discussed two of the most debated topics out there right now, we just came off of a remarkable season for us Browns fans. I'm really happy with the decisions that our FO has made and I'm sure they'll make the right ones this offseason.

That being said, we should all believe in our FO and not get mad at each other for our opinions...nor should we create any agendas. This team is headed the right way. Trust the FO.