DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Build That Wall or Elect Someone Who Will... pt 39

I have never seen a person who better exemplifies that old saying , “I have already made up my mind, don’t confuse me with the facts “. I will try once more.

We have killers in America. We do not have an epidemic of police shootings. Very few and the vast, vast majority are justified, in the immortal words of Raylan Givens. But we have lots of killers. Shoot I think we have more shootings in Chicago per capita than they do in Guatemala. But those are our citizens. We are stuck with them. You want to import more. I don’t want to import any.

I’ll let you fixate on our police officers. I’m going to try and get people in office who actually believe we should have a border.

I'm glad to know that you own a mirror.

Every person who commits murder is a murderer. No matter where they are from. No matter what color they are. No matter whether they wear a badge or not. None of them are anything less than murderers. I don't pick and choose amongst them to determine if one is better or worse than the other murderers. The crime is the same. The loss off life is the same. The grief of the families is the same. I'm not surprised however that you have a problem comprehending that.

I'm not the one on here that screams to high heavens about murderers that come from other places while trying to pretend that we should all be just as outraged at all murders. That would be you.

I am leaving you in fantasy land. You don’t want to face truth. Adios

Fantasy Land would be not understanding that everyone who commits murder is just as much of a criminal. Maybe you can explain how you think differently that that.

Building a billon dollar fence that is easily crossed, calling it a wall that Mexico will pay for was the answer from your side. Separating children from their parents was the answer from your side. Torpedoing the first bipartisan immigration bill ever was the answer from your side. You Goper’s have no leg to stand on in discussing immigration or the border issues when you continue to cry like babies about it, and do nothing to help solve the issue or even want to talk about solutions. BIDEN, BIDEN, BIDEN! Pffft MAGa Murica running amuck.

trump still has them convinced that a fence is a wall. So what do you expect?

Amen, all the Wall people want to forget- tunnel under, open water borders, northern border has NO fencing--- the so-called Wall is fantasy and Mexico paying for it and it's almost finished- Trumpisms- among his LIES. Anyone but Trump.

Well , three more American citizens dead are hand of illegals, people who have no right to be here, people who do not belong here. Three more victims of the Biden mayorkas catch and release policy at our border. Either no vetting or inadequate vetting. Just shameful what they have done in three+ years.

Is anyone surprised that when you dump 10 million or so people, many of them from peasant countries and all from radically different cultures, that you get some murderers? I am not. Apparently the lefties running our border policy are shocked and aghast that people like that have come in.

Is there anyone out there , regardless of your politics, who can say that catch and release is a horrible idea and the Biden should have stuck with the Trump policy??

Trump's policies were enacted under title 42 which allows a president to make executive orders during a federal health emergency that are counter to immigration laws. Once that emergency has ended that no longer applies.

So it was a terrible idea to allow all of those immigrants from different nationalities into the United states during the 1800's? Or does it only matter now?

Hitt, I put the “a wall won’t work “ position right up there alongside the “Trump is a Russian asset” position for dumbness. Walls have helped whenever used. Do you think we are going to build a wall , hop in our cars and go home. Put border control in the hands of that wall. Of course not. We need to expand our border patrol, more people and more technology. Motion sensors, a fleet of drones to carpet the sky. Any other technology that is out there. If you think we cannot control our borders you vastly underestimate American ingenuity. Of course the key is you must have people in charge who actually want to control our border. We do not have that right now.

It does not require title 42 to end catch and release. You need to quit hiding behind 42. We can control our border without a pandemic. Lots of countries do it. And I have no idea what the 1800’s have to do with anything going on at our border now.

Hopefully soon we will have people running the show who put the safety and well being of Americans families first. People come into our country at our invitation. Non American citizens do not control admission to this great country.

The people running the show can't enact anything that goes against immigration law without title 42. Title 42 no longer exists. To change the immigration laws congress must do that. This is pretty basic stuff.

Fixed it for ya.

Pit thinks it's funny when Americans die at the hands of illegals.

I think it's funny that people don't understand title 42 allowed trump to do things on immigration that he can't do now and pretend like that has nothing to do with anything. And that they were foolish enough to think trump would build a border wall and Mexico would pay for it. You see without congress approving funding to build a wall, trump can't do it. He can only build a wall with the approval to fund it which only congress can do. Only congress can decide whether a wall gets built. I know some of you think trump is a king, but he's not. And it's not my fault you have been fooled into thinking that. That's what I find funny.

You need to keep your pea pickin hands off my pea pickin words. I would not want any confusion about what I say. A looney lefty whack job does not speak for me . Ever!!

They are pea picking, true.

Catch and release is not a part of immigration law. The idea that our laws say we have to release people we know nothing about into our country is ridiculous. People like you truly believe we do not have a right to control our border. That we don’t have any say so in who comes in. Well we do and hopefully this country will demonstrate that in a year or so.

Good Lord man. Educating you is exhausting....

You may live in the United States while your Form I-589 is pending before USCIS. If you are found ineligible, you can remain in the United States while your Form I-589 is pending with the immigration judge. Asylum applicants are not authorized to work unless you meet certain requirements.Sep 13, 2023

It's the law. What part of this is escaping you? It's the laws on immigration that need to be fixed. Only congress can do that. Title 42 which is a health emergency measure enacted under covid made it legal to circumvent this law. That title 42 emergency no longer exists. Do you just post "what you feel" while ignoring reality?

So your contention is that America has only one option for dealing with millions of illegals at our border and that is to release them into America, not really knowing who they are, what kind of person they are, if they have a criminal record, if they are child abusers, domestic abusers, anything. You are saying our only choice is to release them unfettered into America. Are you certain of that??

I'm certain you must have missed that they are interviewed and vetted before being released. No system is fail proof.

I'm not sure what it is about my contention you're missing here. We actually have very little disagreement on "what should be done" to correct the mess we have at the border. We both agree that the way things stand as of now means our immigration system is broken.

The only difference is you believe that without title 42 a president can act like a king and break immigration law on a whim. I'm fully aware that only congress can write laws and only congress can approve the funds to fix it. We need more border patrol agents. We need more immigration judges. We need more drones and technology at the border. All of that will need to be paid for. Only congress can fund that.

I, much like yourself would like to see a system where people can not illegally cross the border anywhere and just file for asylum while staying in the country until their hearing. They should have to come in at a legal port of entry to file for asylum and it should be limited to the number of people our immigration courts can handle without backing up our immigration courts for years.

So I don't think we're that far apart on what we think we "should see happen". The place we disagree is that it doesn't seem you understand that without the title 42 health emergency order, a president doesn't have the power to change these laws and has never had the power to fund anything without the approval of congress.

We both want it fixed. I would like to see congress step up and fix it. That's their job.

No he doesn’t, that’s a damn lie. And while we’re on this topic, let me edumacate you on some facts;

Fact #1- Crimes committed by illegals are far more rare then crimes committed by natural born Americans.
Fact #2- Murders by illegal immigrants of innocent Americans is practically non-existent compared to total murders in America.
Fact 3#- You’ve been gaslit.

Its not a lie. He laughed it off when recent murders and terrorist illegals were brought up.

Also, stop making excuses for the murder of innocent Americans. Go give your response to the mother of the 12 year old who was abducted, raped under a bridge, murdered, and her body dumped in a creek. Sad that you make excuses for that.

I’m not making excuses, I’m exposing BS propaganda.

Youre making excuses for the murder of Americans and its SHAMEFUL. You are ok with childrens deaths as long as it fits your political agenda. SHAME.

How the hell did you get that out of what he said?

He is trying to minimize the fact that there have been constant numbers of murders by illegals. If you can't understand that then you need to go back to school.

It's a gift only a trumpians can twist in their own minds.

Ok pit, I am going to accept that you really do want what I want , a controlled border, a system where Americans decide who comes into their country. So a couple of comments about what you have said.

First, no I did not miss that these illegals were interviewed and vetted before they were released into our country. Did you miss that the illegal in nyc who raped a young 12 year old girl was wanted in his country for murder, I believe it was. He had been interviewed and vetted. So too had a number of the illegals who have murdered Americans recently. This should not happen, no matter how many Americans are killing other Americans. We do not need to import more murderers. I have never understood why you do not seem to get that point that I have made repeatedly.

Second, while I do not believe you intended it to be, saying “no system is fail proof” while a young mother is mourning the fact that her 12 year old daughter was kidnapped, tortured, raped, murdered and dumped….in…. a….ditch…comes across as callous and uncaring for the that mother and her loss. I do not think you intended that. All the families who have had young women murdered do not want to hear that “no system is fail safe”. Not at all.

Finally, title 42. Catch and release has been around well before Covid. But it is not our only option. I asked you if you were sure if it was and you did not respond , perhaps because you know. America does not have to release into our country anyone who comes to us illegally. We have the option of detaining them. And that is what we should do. We turn the corp of engineers loose on constructing barracks, basic and simple. Nothing fancy. If we need to do it all along the border we do. We spend millions/billions on losing these illegals on our community. So we spend it detaining them. There are several advantages of doing this.

When the asylum claimants get their ruling, 90-95% of asylum claims are denied, they are right there ready to load onto a bus and return home. Also, when people thinking of trying to cross our border illegally know that they will not be released into our country they will be less likely to come so the flow of people will be reduced.and then finally, they won’t be out there raping and murdering Americans. Those are all good things.

I totally agree with hiring judges. I would run asylum court 24/7 until caught up and then whatever it takes to keep up. But I think it would be way easier once the border is secured and people are not being released into the country.

Then Pit, we get the politicians to sit in a room, lock em in if necessary and negotiate proper immigration law. This should include work permit reform, visa reform, especially the abused h1b visas. The establishment of appropriate levels of legal immigration . Of course illegal immigration should be targeted at 0, and there are other reforms that should be easy to pass, if, and it is a big if, both parties genuinely want control of the border and reform of immigration.

I do think it is important that this not be controlled/dominated by members of the establishment elites. They have shown consistently that their priority is not the American people.

I actually posted the immigration law that shows immigrants have to be released until their immigration hearing. People have up to one year to apply for asylum and after that they have the right to stay in this country until their immigration hearing. I don't like that but that's the law.

I'm not sure what about that you didn't understand. I understand that crimes have been committed by illegals that have entered this country. What I don't do is focus only on those and pretend the crimes they commit are somehow more important or heinous than crimes committed by anyone else in order to try and paint all immigrants as some type of criminal element more than any other sector of our society. That strategy has been used throughout our nations history to try and portray different groups and people as being somehow worse than others.

Every family of every murder victim are mourning and grieving their loss. It's no different depending on who committed the crime. Yet that seems to be the only people you focus on.

I also realize to help prevent many such crimes from being committed it will take sweeping changes in our immigration laws. Something only congress can do. If you really wish to help prevent these kinds of crimes from being committed you should be more focused on fixing the very immigration laws that are structured in a way that keep allowing them to happen. Once again, the responsibility of the GOP controlled House to first write and approve.

They did put politicians in a room. They did have a comprehensive immigration bill that both the democrats and Republicans in that room agreed on which they presented before congress. The GOP refused to pass it. Some even openly admitted the reason they wouldn't pass it was because it may help biden get re-elected. You must have missed that part.

The biggest part of the problem as I see it is that both sides tend to think everything should be exactly the way they want an immigration bill should be written or they will refuse to endorse it. One side did that this last time. And it would have addressed many of the very points we both agree on. I'm not sure why you keep giving them a free pass on that.

Could you show me where that law says the “have to be released”. Of course it does not, it says “may be released “. Words mean something. And that is what is says. Here is what the Congressional Research Service, the research arm of our congress says in the midst of a long research paper on immigration.

The Immigration and Naturalization Act authorizes DHS to detain or release foreign nationals subject to removal. It says that generally aliens can be detained but it is discretionary, unless they fall within certain groups that are mandatory. So they can be detained whether you like it or not. We can apply discretion and detain them all.
And that is what we should do.

So since Americans kill other Americans you are fine with importing other killers to kill other Americans. Maybe we are not close at all because I do not want to import one single killer to hurt Americans.

So where do you suggest they "detain" 10 million people? Your brain isn't processing the reality of it.

I'll say it again, I'm against all murders no matter who commits them. You however focus on certain ones depending on who commits them.

Wait, wait, wait!!!!! I sense a change . You are not saying we cannot detain illegals, now you are trying to throw up practical reasons why we could not possibly detain all these people. Not that we do not have the right to detain illegals. Hmmm!!! In the immortal words of Artie Johnson………Verrrrrrry interesting…..

Which leads me to an obvious question. As recently as a couple of days ago you stated categorically that illegals “must be released” into America. Since you appear to know now that that is not true, that America has the right to detain illegals, why did you lie about it on 7/5?? In fact, why have you been lying about it for this entire discussion?? This is getting to be a habit with you. Stating things as facts to support your narrative of things. So tell me, why???

So where do you suppose you put them? You can't detain them if there is no place to put them. So no, we can't detain them. Yes, since you have nowhere to detain them you must release them.

You tell me where they would put 10 million people? Tell me how you can detain them with no place to put them. Our entire prison system only holds just over 1.2 million people.

Unless you can show me where or how they can be detained it's not me who is lying here. That would be you claiming we have the choice to detain them when there is no means to detain them. So no, we don't have a choice but to release them.

Now address how we can detain them as you claim we should and stop all the double talk.

J/c

If we want lower crime rates we need MORE undocumented and illegals... Fact.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2014704117

https://news.northwestern.edu/stori...ikely-to-commit-crimes-than-the-us-born/

https://siepr.stanford.edu/news/mythical-tie-between-immigration-and-crime

One day... Maybe folks will realize that politicians trying to paint all the worlds problems on 'immigrants' are just lying to y'all. In france, the UK... Or yhe USA. And this notion they bring some sort of crime wave is factually total BS

You did not answer my question. Why did you lie and say “immigration law says immigrants must be released” into the country? Why did you tell that lie??

Who has said anything about “immigrants “. Boy you lefties just struggle with accuracy don’t you? We are talking about people who break into our country illegally. If you are unable to distinguish between them and people who legally immigrate here maybe this isn’t the conversation for you.

Why don’t you cite all those stats to Laken Rileys family. I am certain they would love to hear them. Or maybe Jocelyn’s mother would be interested. You know, the mom whose daughter was kidnapped, tortured, raped, murdered and dumped in a ditch. Maybe she would enjoy hearing it.

But I have a feeling their responses would be the same. Men who should not have been released into our country were, and they preyed upon our daughters. It has to stop!!!

Libtards are mentally incapable of understanding the difference between legal and illegal.

"Undocumented and illegals.....Fact." Feeble try at the "gotcha" game. 2 of those 3 articles don't even mention undocumented and illegals. The one that does uses a sample of 2012-2018 and only mentions the arrest rates.....not taking into consideration those that were deported vs being arrested, or arrested for immigration violations (which is also a crime, and at that time a lot easier to deal with).

Says the GOPer who supports a convicted felon.