DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Hamas says it has agreed to ceasefire proposal from Egypt and Qatar

Knowing what's going on doesn't equal involvement. But this is the typical way that people dehumanize others to rationalize their slaughter. They claim, "The women are terrorists, the children are terrorists, the elderly are terrorist!" Which is false on so many levels. The terrorist organization Hamas are the enemy here. But when you wish to make it sound okay "Just to kill them all and starve them all", any tactic seems like fair game to you.

That tactic sounds very familiar but is most often used by the other side.

They were caught in the proverbial crossfire hurricane.

I am saddened by the loss of children and adults that did not know that hostages were in proximity.

But any adult that knew there were hostages in proximity were knowingly risking their lives.

I don't disagree that they were risking their lives. But considering the way Hamas works they were risking their life if they said anything as well. It was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. The difference being Hamas was there now and that risk would have been far more immediate from Hamas.

I believe that the siege in Gaza will only extend the distrust of Palestinian and Israelis to a couple more generation.

I feel pretty sure that distrust still existed and would have continued. But this certainly intensifies it to a level we haven't seen in decades.

Who said equal? Young children are at the mercy of these terrorists true. Anyone over the age of 12 in Gaza knows what’s going on though. They were being paid to hold hostages, “everyone stay silent”. Anyone with any kind of self preservation and moral compass at all would have turned on them and run like hell, because they had to know they were the walking dead at that point. IDF will be here soon.

In our own country people aren't considered an adult and expected make adult decisions properly until adulthood at the age of 18. Yet you wish to hold the children of Gaza to adult levels of decision making at the age of 12. Like I said, whatever it takes to make yourself feel better about it. It also sounds like you're accusing 12 year olds for getting paid to hold people hostage. Yet another thing that would make normal thinking people to go hmmmm......

I said anyone over the age of 12 knows what is going on.

Gaza isn’t the USA bro. Here’s just one example. I have plenty more.

http://www.news.cn/english/2021-06/28/c_1310031080.htm

From a legal perspective a hostage hide is still a kidnapper.

Major news organizations including NPR, CNN, CBS, and NBC repeatedly state that over 20,000 have been killed in Gaza. Yet they usually omit that this figure comes from the Hamas-run Gaza Health Ministry and includes at least 8,000 Hamas terrorists. The Gaza Health Ministry, by its own admission, doesn't distinguish between combatant and civilian deaths. Instead, the Gaza Health Ministry includes combatants in its total death toll. In fact, that 8,000 figure, which accounts for 40 percent of the casualties, might be low; looking at the 2014 Israel-Hamas war, human rights organizations, including those that routinely criticize Israel, found that up to 60 percent of deaths had been combatants.

The "Gaza Health Ministry" also does not distinguish between Palestinians killed by Israel and those killed by Hamas. Rockets launched from within Gaza fail often, landing back inside Gaza. As even Human Rights Watch acknowledged, the rockets used by Hamas "are prone to misfire" and "have misfired and struck areas in Gaza." Research has consistently found that up to 20 percent of Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) rockets land in Gaza. Given that there have been over 12,000 rockets fired from Gaza by Hamas and PIJ since October 7, this means nearly 2,500 terrorist-launched rockets have crashed in the densely populated Gaza Strip.

https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-using-child-soldiers-add-it-their-list-war-crimes-opinion-1859652

It’s a war crime to use minors as military combatants, messengers, and delivery carriers. Israel is guilty as well of using Palestinian minors as informants. It’s a war crime that both sides will eventually have to deal with.

I have no idea who wrote that opinion piece you posted but they don't even have the figure right. As a matter of fact it's WAY off. The figure that is coming out of Gaza is over 37k. I too don't think you can count that number as accurate but you seriously need to find a source that reflects the number accurately. At least the first part of the headline is correct.... "You're Being Misled"

Here is what the Gaza run health ministry claims.....

37,202 people killed

At least 37,202 people killed and 84,932 wounded in Israel's war on Gaza since October 7.1 day ago

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/live...o-ceasefire-deal-soon-us-president-biden

So now your claim is also that the brains of children in Gaza develop faster than anywhere else in the world so 12 and 13 year olds should be held accountable as adults? Interesting concept.

I’m not claiming diddly. But go ahead and vilify me. I don’t care about “your.. must be right at everything and have the last word on it.” Attitude….

It’s a known fact Hamas is using teenagers as combatants. And those combatants are counted as children casualties. Get over yourself.

And if you had read the article. You would have known it was written by By Brad Sherman
U.S. Representative, California’s 32nd district.

Also the GAZA health ministry is run by Gaza authorities. Hamas is the governing faction of GAZA. Believing terrorists can be deadly.

Everyone knows that or the Netanyahu led government is telling you that? And besides, we're talking about a family in their home. If believing the terrorists is so bad why were you using what was supposed to be the correct number from that same "terrorist source"?


So let me see if I have this right. You use false numbers which were claimed to come from the Gaza Health Ministry. To you that's a source worth posting.

I use the same source, the Gaza Health Ministry to show that the numbers reported by them are much higher than that and somehow by showing that the claim in your source was wrong and somehow I believe the terrorists? No, your source got the number they are reporting being killed wrong by by over 17,000. Nowhere did I say that number was accurate.Try reading it slower if you think that will help.

Just a word of advice. When the leader of a country is under indictment on felony charges the way Netanyahu is you may not want to take every word he puts out in the press as gospel either. I know you wouldn't do that with a president in the U.S. so I have no idea why you're doing it there.

Biden administration imposes sanctions on Israeli group blocking humanitarian aid into Gaza

The Biden administration on Friday imposed sanctions on an Israeli group for disrupting humanitarian convoys headed to Gaza.

Both the US Treasury Department and the US State Department took action against the Tzav 9 movement for its repeated obstruction of the aid.

The sanctions against the organization are the latest punitive measure taken under an executive order targeting those perpetrating violence in the West Bank. They come as the US continues to grapple with the crisis in Gaza, where humanitarian officials say the situation has reached one of its lowest points in the entire eight-month conflict

The Tzav 9 movement, a grouping of demobilized reservists, families of hostages and settlers, has been leading protests to disrupt the critical aid convoys at Kerem Shalom, the country’s sole functioning border crossing with Gaza. Its name, meaning “Order 9,” is a reference to the emergency mobilization notices that call up reservists.

At the end of February, the area was declared a closed military zone, due to international pressure, but protesters continued to arrive and try to outmaneuver the police.

“For months, individuals from Tzav 9 have repeatedly sought to thwart the delivery of humanitarian aid to Gaza, including by blockading roads, sometimes violently, along their route from Jordan to Gaza, including in the West Bank,” State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller said Friday.

“They also have damaged aid trucks and dumped life-saving humanitarian aid onto the road. On May 13, 2024, Tzav 9 members looted and then set fire to two trucks near Hebron in the West Bank carrying humanitarian aid destined for men, women, and children in Gaza,” he said.

Miller said the Israeli government “has a responsibility to ensure the safety and security of humanitarian convoys transiting Israel and the West Bank enroute to Gaza.”

“We will not tolerate acts of sabotage and violence targeting this essential humanitarian assistance,” he said. “We will continue to use all tools at our disposal to promote accountability for those who attempt or undertake such heinous acts, and we expect and urge that Israeli authorities do the same.”

In a statement Friday, Tzav 9 described the Biden administration’s imposition of sanctions as “shocking,” adding, “It is a fatal blow to the families who aim to stop the aid to the enemy Hamas in time of war.”

The statement also accused the Biden administration of acting “against the families of hostages who fight to get their loved ones back from Hamas’s hands.”

The statement claimed without evidence that aid “falls directly into the hands of the terrorist organization Hamas.” The US and humanitarian aid organizations say they are not aware of widespread diversion of humanitarian assistance by Hamas.

Reuters first reported that the sanctions were being imposed.

President Joe Biden signed an executive order earlier this year allowing sanctions on those causing West Bank violence. The order has been used to roll out sanctions on Israeli settlers attacking Palestinians in recent months.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/14/poli...ng-humanitarian-aid-into-gaza/index.html

Follow your own advice, because I don’t believe everything I hear from either side. As if Hamas leaders or BiBi aren’t going to eventually end up in a war crimes tribunal. They’re both guilty as sin

Hamas, the aggressors! They are putting children in harms way by hiding behind and training them as combatants. (Which is also a war crime btw) Palestinian families holding Israeli hostages for money, and when they are killed and counted as innocent victims as reported by Hamas and other media sources, people like you defend the Hamas terrorists. I don’t get it. People die in wars. It’s hell. And it’s proven a high percentage of the ordnance that Hamas launches towards Israel fails and falls in Gaza killing their own people. Yet nada from you on that. Then those killed in those strikes are counted as innocent victims while Hamas and other news sources add those casualty numbers to the death toll blaming Israel.

And please Stop …..with the excuses that teenage combatants are indeed a myth and are innocent victims. That’s false. They are trained from a very young age to help kill Jews.

What's false is trying to claim teen agers living in a home with their families are enemy combatants.


You see, you did it again. You have no way of knowing that the "family" was holding anyone hostage. All you know to be true is the that the man of the house was holding hostages. But I understand that does make it easier to justify killing the entire family. I have never defended the terrorists. At the same time I've never labeled people that I have no idea if they are terrorists, as terrorists. I'll sit here and watch you keep doing that.

And of course when I pointed out that your source gave the wrong number of what was being reported by the very same agency you did, somehow you have twisted that into me claiming I believe their numbers. I don't. Even when they're being reported they freely admit that they don't separate those numbers by combatants. But then when you aren't actually paying attention you wouldn't know that.

The one place we do agree is that Hamas doesn't care about the citizens of Gaza. They actually feel that the more dead civilians there are the more sympathy they get.


And that's pretty much been shown to be true. But then when Israel is dropping 2000 lb. dumb bombs that kill everything within a 1000 foot radius in every direction in heavily civilian neighborhoods that sort of makes it easier for you to show that Israel doesn't care about mass civilian casualties.

Hamas is disgusting. They are a terrorist organization. That doesn't make every teen ager and woman in Gaza members of Hamas despite your rhetoric. I saw how your exact same type of thinking worked out during the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. A lot of innocent Muslims were persecuted and attacked due to the exact same thought process you are using now.

And you are right also that Hamas "started out" as the aggressor. As such I fully support that Israel wipes out Hamas. The main difference between us is that I'm not willing to make excuses, make blanket statements to vilify nearly every citizen in Gaza to pretend everything Israel is doing is justified.

Ah yes, you can no longer present anything newsworthy without political digs. Murica!