DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Watson: No Way Out

Watson looked good today. Cooper was almost a game killer today.

the thing about Cooper ... yeah he has had some bad drops, but he's also not separating like he usually does .. AND that play on 3rd and 3 when he went backwards was a really bonehead move

Strange start for Cooper

I noticed that as well, but overall a solid day.

One route in particular: his throws on slant routes is really bad. I noticed it last year too. There's no touch and it seems to just ricochet off the WRs hands/body. It seemed like the slant to Cooper was a bread and butter play for us last year with Walker/DTR .. not with Watson

But this is the part I don't get.

I've never been a huge Watson fan, but after everything went down, I went back and watched.

The first thing I noticed when comparing his old tape with a fresh vision of Baker in my head, was that he threw with a lot more touch... a lot more.

It's a very underrated aspect of great "quarterbacking" and I walked away thinking at least he had that gene.

Now?? It's WTF-ville.

How does that happen?
Is it an indictment of the offense itself? (Baker has grown by leaps since he left, so there's that)
Will it be corrected as he becomes more comfortable?

Watson shot puts the ball. I believe it is a combination of the his injuries and his confidence. When you start aiming and stop throwing, you get what we have been seeing with Watson.

I'm not sure what it is you're seeing. Yes, against second and third stringers in preseason he looks pretty good. But then that's why fans all across the league call for their backup if they have an average starter that struggles. Because they "looked good in the preseason". He only had one start and that wasn't a fair test considering he had very little time in the league and didn't know he was starting until right before the game. And I get that. But when you throw 4int's you aren't reading the defense.

That's a great way to put it. Especially on shorter throws I've noticed his motion is just.......different.

Speaking for myself, it's not about preseason at all. And he only threw 3 ints against Baltimore last year where all of the following were true -

1. Was a rookie.
2. Did not get starter reps all week at practice.
3. Found out he was starting right before game time.
4. Facing one of the best defenses in the league.

In my opinion, the Baltimore game carries very little weight. When he knew he was starting against Pitt, he played ok, but he did lead a game winning drive against one of the best defenses in the league, while making not only big time throws but big time reads (you have to know where to go with the ball or the whole QB thing comes crumbling down). For a rookie against that defense in a rivalry game, that was impressive. And I am surprised it seems to get swept under the rug amongst Browns fans. It goes back to "well, he's a fifth rounder, it's not possible he can be good". Look at the list of backup QBs in the league. It is pretty underwhelming and is littered with FAILED first round picks. I would take DTR over nearly all of them.

Skill set wise, he has everything you want as a starter ... plus level arm, above average athleticism, hard worker, smart. Nearly five year starter for a big time school. He's bright, that you can tell from preseason and from the Pitt game. IMO, he's a prime candidate for a guy you want to develop and get experience. He's slight, and that's a negative. That was one of Baker's best attributes. Stocky, could absorb punishment, and would be available. I think DTR would have to add a little weight. But his big thing is he needs reps and experience. Probably won't happen in Cleveland, unfortunately.

💣

Rish gets a rare lampdogg approval boom.

I like DTR, for reasons I’ve previously stated, until I believe otherwise.

Is that what that is? Looks like an eggplant with a nipple.

Good post, Rish. I would say I agree with almost all of that.

I definitely agree on the Pittsburgh game, 4-4 on that final drive and nerves of steel (who am I kidding, he probably peed his pants). But please keep in mind the real star of that show was Stefanski. Nobody expected aggressive play calls in the last 1:18. Everybody expected that we were "happy to be there" and happy to play for OT.

In short, and to be blunt, Stefanski prioritized winning by luring a HOF coach into thinking he wasn't prioritizing winning. And that's not hyperbole, that's literally what we watched. Tomlin was lured into a false sense of security, you could see in his eyes that he knew he had been outfoxed when the final seconds were ticking away.


I'm no X and O's guru. I'm a dude with decades of football wisdom with (imo) damn good eyes. I have a pretty good track record of being right more than wrong. I screamed, yelled and begged for Josh Allen while everyone said I was crazy. People like Vers literally made a sport of making fun of me for it (not in a mean way).


I bring this up because I see a similar quality in DTR as I saw in Allen. It's correctable and it just takes time.

The knock on Allen was that he was inaccurate, couldn't read defenses, and couldn't go through progressions. I watched college tape and the same thing spilled into his first pro year. He went through progressions too quickly. Just a tick too quickly. I see the same thing in DTR. These guys get it beat into their heads that the game is sooo fast and they have to be faster. A rare few are actually too fast and actually need to slow down a bit, and in the words of LeBron -- let the game come to them.

Before anybody gets it in their thick heads that this a some direct comparison to Allen and that I'm predicting the same success, I'm not. I'm just comparing this aspect and the fact that they both have all the required tools in their belts. DTR also seems to quickly get down on himself and let it affect his game, Allen never really had that bad habit.

In short (too late lol) DTR has the physical tools and the mental tools. The fact is, his "game clock" is a tick too fast. That's actually a good and very correctable problem.

I hadn’t seen it that way, but now that you mention it….

Good post. I know that I liked what I saw from him throughout both preseasons. He definitely creeped his way onto the roster for a reason.

With all the drama we have with QB1, it would sure be nice to see someone rise from the depths and be able to take over, whether that's later this year or when we can finally unmoor ourselves.

JMHO, It amazes me in the day how the Browns could waste so many first round draft picks on TERRIBLY FLAUDED QBs- first, Johnny M.- he was a known problem child ad Texas AM, but the Heisman award and him wrecking Alabama was to much to pass on....then DW- he of the all Pro seasons, BUT you can't tell me a complete background check would not have uncovered his sex problem/s- especially if you're GUARANTEEING millions upon millions of dollars AND VITAL draft picks. If we are the best analytics team in NFL, we got to be WORST in determining character flaws....off the box, I disliked Mayfield, but he'd been TONS better than DW in long term.

At this point, It’s the responsibility of ownership to either bring in a recently retired vet like Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers etc. Or trade Indy for Joe Flacco. This trade completely ruined everything that John Dorsey had developed here.

Week 3 and the albatross DW is still hanging on our necks. MAJOR SUCKAGE.

He was running for his life today, with a receiving group that couldn’t get open. Blaming Watson for the loss is short-sighted.

Either way, I still blame DW. Baker never got this much rope…. Just saying.

To think, we could have kept baker, had 3 first rounders, and way much salary cap available. I hated this trade from the start. We could have gone the route as Pittsburgh- signed trubisky, let things settle, and then signed Justin fields.

Justin Fields is outplaying Deshaun right now. And Baker is making Deshaun look like a peewee quarterback.

Jimmy needs to be front and center tomorrow. Apologizing for this crap.

He was just as much of the problem as the rest, he can't read a defense to save his life, the only way he can complete a pass is when his primary target is open.

people wanting to blame watson who threw for 2tds and no picks while being sacked a career high 8 times while running for his life every single drop back, theres absolutely no way you should be watching football, because clearly you don't understand it. Was Watson lights out, no.. but he did well considering the playcalling is the worst I've ever seen, we have receivers that can't get a single yard of separation, and when they do can't catch it. We have an oline that was worse than anything we rolled out in 99. Dickerson should be replaced asap. Our strength and conditioning team sucks, they have needed replaced for years, between the countless injuries, You allow an already FAT Jones, to come to camp even fatter and lose absolutely any semblance of agility. He needs to be moved to guard or benched until he gets in spec. But to blame Watson for this is a stretch, even with those who have DRS

Even then he struggles. His accuracy over all is bad.

Yes, there was pressure. But he's a 1 read then run kind of guy. He ran himself into a few sacks. Again. Replays have even show open receivers that he never looked at.

Unimpressed with DW Browns version.




I really think that instead of half assing it in practice, going half speed at qb, 75% speed at receiver, it would benefit the team to practice at game speed.

And for the love of GOD, get the starters some time in preseason. Why? Because the starters seem to play like the first few games of the REAL season are preseason games.

I get it, you don't want injuries in practice, or pre season. So, we just take lackluster performance for the first few games of the season as ok, along with the injuries we see on a weekly basis? Hell, if that's the issue, don't play the starters until week 15 or so. That way they're "healthy".

I'm just tired of this garbage.

If Watson is so good, maybe some sucker team that needs a QB like we do, will trade for him, contract and all.

Is he solely to blame for today's loss, absolutely not. But I have seen enough of him to know we are not going anywhere with him, no matter who is on the field with him.

......sigh.

The OL is bad - yes.
Did DW play well? Not really.
Did he do some things with his feet to escape and make a handful of plays running or finding a receiver - yes.
Did he run into trouble sometimes - yes, probably an equal number of times he made something happen.
How many of his 8 sacks were on him? I don't know... maybe 2?
Did he stick the throws when his first read WR's were open - I can think of one time to Cooper when we were gaining momentum. Most of the throws are not accurate.
Is Stefanski calling plays that help DW out with extra protection - not as often as I would like to see. We don't seem to establish any facet of the game on offense, we seem to need DW to read the D and find the open man and get the ball out at the top of a 3 or 5 step dropback ... and DW can't read the D.

I'd say that based on the last 2 games - DW is not the biggest problem with the team. We have other glaring issues with the OL and a lack of a running game and the receivers have dropped too many balls. With that said - saying the $230M QB who you traded 3 first round picks + change to acquire isn't the biggest problem on the team speaks volumes about the value we've gotten from that trade. Essentially a 38 year old QB who got the call up while he was sitting on his sofa has outperformed DW by leaps and bounds last year - and while it might not be pretty based on the OL this year, I expect we'd have won yesterday if JF was QB.

I was surprised that we went away from the jumbo package stuff that was working against JAX, especially when NY was bringing so much pressure

To me, KS is NOT a spread offensive coach. It's not his natural belief system. He much prefers timing, motion ... much like we saw with Baker and Flacco

Watson and KS just don't mesh

Normally I’d agree with you, but yesterday was 90% on coaching.

I’ve made this argument about Stefanski before but he calls the game based on what they practiced or what he thinks should work if his team could execute but has no pulse on the game and can’t see that the team can’t actually execute any of it because the other team is better prepared. Instead of adjusting he just keeps calling the same stuff because the play designs are good and it should work in his mind. Five years in and he’s still doing the same thing. And now we are stuck with him and Watson.

Don’t forget I also said this is his down year. He’s allergic to success. Can’t have two good years in a row.

I was at the game... lots of WR's were open.

However, Watson was also running for his life.

We need to make a trade for some OL help before Watson ends up on IR.

I wish no ill will on anyone. But I have to ask.... after what we saw from the QB position last year, if watson were to get injured would we really be any worse off?

we beat Pittsburgh with DTR and San Francisco with PJ Walker ... so I'd say no

I agree with your post. i think we've both been on to he same page regarding KS. Ive reached the same point with Berry too. Too many misses in the draft and poor depth at positions we've got players with known injury histories with.

That doesn't change what we have and see with DW and the OL etc. just an extra layer of frustration for the fans.

Questions:

Can DW audible to change the play to take advantage of the blitz?
If he can, why doesn't he?
If he cannot, why not?

Who makes the line calls to pick up the blitz?
Typically either the Qb or the center - occasionally an OG if the Qb and C are both rookies

Four short weeks ago we were breaking our arms patting ourselves on the back at having the top #X roster in the NFL...we were told that we FINALLY have built an offense around what our QB 'does well' (which I have no idea what that might be)...the wheels either fell off the wagon in one week...or were never firmly attached in the first place.

Thank goodness we didn't give away any game plans in the pre-season.

Remember all those salary cap discussions that were either "the sky is falling" or "look, it's not a big deal and is manageable"? Remember that? We are about to find out where we are with that.

I'm no DW lover or apologist - in fact I've been more critical than most and many posers told me so.

With that said - this time in the pocket stat seems a little wrong. It might be accurate - but how much of that time is DW running or making a defender miss as he tries to skip away. I'm not saying DW hasn't also created some of his own problems and I think he's had a little more time than we might assume, especially when you remember the Warner breakdown where time and again DW didn't pull the trigger on a guy who was "open". Anyway - I think that this "statistic" might not be (probably isn't) reflective of the true big picture).

Sadly it feels like Browns fans are back tot eh Offseason Koolaid, in the worst possible way.

I agree. From what i’ve seen in the 3 games it’s hard to believe that stat. He’s been pressured and sacked way too much for that stat to be correct.