DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Debate 9/10/2024

Bro..trump said they’re gonna do large deportations and send the Haitian immigrants back to…Venezuela lmfao

This just goes to show that it’s never been about legal or illegal immigrants.

It’s always been about them being non-white migrants. Because how else do you explain deporting legal Haitians to a South American country?

We do have an illegal alien problem in the US.

What Trump and Vance have brought to the forefront is an immigrant problem. A "they don't look like us" problem. It's a problem that has been loosely associated with the far Right for a while, and more and more closely associated with MAGA. They're now trumpeting it as some sort of rallying cry and they're not being subtle.

Oob, do you think the country would be a lot more open to the discussion on migrants if the leaders of the party weren’t saying the most disgusting crap imaginable?

Your side is saying that foreigners sent to Springfield, OH by the Dem Cabal are eating pets and spreading TB because... reasons.... and I'M the wackadoodle conspiracy theorist?
lol

Sadly you haven't been following along. I've disagreed with both OCD and Perfect several times on this board. Yet another swing and a miss!

That's exactly what I'm saying.


This whole thing is hitting a little too close to home for me.

My dad came to the US as a refugee from Hungary when the Russians rolled in the tanks. He remembers leaving their comfortable life and coming here with nothing. His parents came to Cleveland, because that's one of the cities where the vast majority of Hungarians were going, and they had family that had come there before them. His dad (my grandfather) was a professor of physics and math at a local university in Hungary, but was forced to take a night shift tech job at a hospital in order to begin carving out a life here. They relied on family and the Hungarian community to get their feet under them. My grandfather did everything he could and was able to send my dad and my uncles to good schools and hammered the importance of education, which set them up for success.

I see far too many similarities between these immigrants and my parents to not get fired up at the garbage that's being parroted on here and elsewhere all for one person's benefit.

You "read" this response as....

...You're usually a good poster oober, but you're drifting into Pit territory and completely coming up with something that's just not there in what you quoted.

Is Trump "SO much" worse? I'm not so sure. Undoubtedly absolutely horrific. But is someone that is a good liar "better" than someone that's a bad one?

Hypothetically, is it okay to cheat to try to ensure beating an awful candidate?

Jan6 wasn't a good thing. Yet, it wasn't some right wing, nut only outlier. The left condoned violence in the name of politics repeatedly creating an environment where this was a predictable potential response. Burning police stations was met with lots of yeah buts. The "left" is as much to blame for the current "political climate"/(violent) "protest culture" as Trump.

Both sides use the flawed logic of accepting bad things for "good" reasons. Both blame the other side instead of admitting their culpability in setting the stage.

The cost of political conformity and polarization in this country is just way too high to me.

"They" do it, bad. "We" do it, okay, we have to.

They're "bad" we have to beat them no matter what.

I'm sitting here wondering WTF is wrong with all of them.

Awe look at the libtards squirm. All you can do is post some libtard extremist websites to try an deny the truth about the affidavit. You get your news from Gay AF Dragon. SHAME LIBARD SHAME. YOUR CORRUPT CANDIDATE AND MEDIA SHAME.

That's quite true. And even more sad is he is threatening to deport these Haitians in Springfield who are here legally. That makes his message very clear. It's not just about "illegals".

Trump vows mass deportation of protected migrants in Springfield, dismisses threats to town

"We're going to have the largest deportation in the history of our country," Trump said as he took reporter questions in Los Angeles, California. "And we're going to start with Springfield and Aurora, [Colorado]."

The remark comes after Trump and his running mate, Ohio Sen. JD Vance, amplified unsubstantiated claims of Haitian migrants in Springfield eating pets. Trump did not repeat the baseless rumor when speaking in California, but called the Haitian migrants "illegal" despite the city explaining the Haitian population is in the U.S. legally under the Immigration Parole Program.


https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tru...eld-dismisses-threats/story?id=113661663

Damn bro. That’s real right there. Shout out to your fam, cause that’s what this country is all about.

Dude, that's wild. Good for your dad and grandfather.

I remember that community in Cleveland. Oddly enough, my music teacher in first grade - I'll never forget her - was one of those refugees. I think she was in an orchestra before she came over.

Yeah, that's true. American dream. Now his grandson is down in Ooberville contributing to the country, building a family, and terrorizing our neighborhood. Fantasy fulfilled.

Pit, you've even disagreed with me once
You were wrong, but I don't hold that against you

I do agree the Haitian narrative and related hate are abhorrent and can see how that would hit close to home.

See Oob, I warned you the direction it would take when you told the truth.

I was wrong!? I guess that just goes to prove the old adage that even the best mess up once in a while

j/c

What's a realistic time frame for the affidavit to be verified?

Seems like people have doubled down, tripled down and basically staked entire reputations on the thing being real. At what point in time does it need to be proven instead of an internet social media phenomena?

I'll be honest and say it reads well as if it should be / could be true ... it paints a picture of some form of collaboration but the collaboration it states isn't too far fetched or crazy. . . . but at the same time it stinks and has a very suspicious air to it. Far too convenient after Trump bombed. Released in a format that follows so much disinformation that is promoted online ... and the usual suspects in the |Republican party the first to spread the claims.

I'll wait for some hard proof one way or the other. What we have now is not proof of anything, one way or the other.

And the legend gets bigger, now light up that gaslight and cook another spun tale. Disagreed, yeah that's really "calling out" but you keep living in your fantasy world.

Once again someone on the right spreading misinformation based on false claims. Typical coming from your kind. #triggered

Ok, that one kinda stung. I'm trying to drive home a larger point. We're sitting here arguing over a dehumanizing topic that's been effectively debunked. And the side that pushed it, knowing it was false all along, is instead doubling down. To that end, there is a bit of crazy at work here.


Jan6 was not only "not a good thing". It was an attack on one of the pillars of our democracy. And Jan6 WAS a "right wingnut only" event. Jan6 happened with the intention of NOT certifying Biden as the next president. With the backdrop of "find me 10k votes" and the fake electors scheme, it was part of a strategy to subvert the election to keep Trump in the presidency. Some people (including me) would call that an attempted coup. By definition, it was right wingnut only as the intention was to keep the democratically-elected Dem out of the WH and the loser of the election in.

More to your point... I am the one that said on here that DJT is a symptom of a larger and much older problem, and not the problem itself. It was this feeling of rampant corruption on all sides that Trump effectively weaponized against HRC. And if that were it, I would say good for him and I'd be his biggest fan. There are also some things in his presidency that he did that I appreciated.

But his behavior of sowing chaos is not going to be good in the long run. He didn't drain the swamp as he merely added his own people to it. And he has increased (in severity and frequency) the amount of dangerous rhetoric as time goes on. Put another way... when a mob of liberals erects a gallows on the steps of the Capitol and starts chanting to hang the VP, then we can have the "both sides are bad" convo regarding Jan6.

Nothing would surprise me either way. IIRC, the DNC did the same thing in Hillary v Bernie.

It is odd don't you think?

trump claims she knew the questions in advance and suddenly this "document" surfaces....

After poor performance, Trump accuses Harris of knowing questions before ‘rigged’ debate

Updated: Sep. 12, 2024, 12:07 p.m.|Published: Sep. 11, 2024, 12:36 p.m.

https://www.nj.com/politics/2024/09...wing-questions-before-rigged-debate.html

It does, but I would think an official affidavit would be on some kind of official letterhead

Right on point. Nothing about it looks official. They need to learn how to do their fakes better. But as you can see it doesn't take much to fool the people they're trying to reach with that nonsense.

Don't feel bad, we all make mistakes at some point in our lives. Even me.
I once thought I was wrong, turns out that i wasn't

Another thing one should take note of as it pertains to this supposed "document" is that there is no official court seal or stamp on it. Something that would certainly need to be included had it been submitted to any court. They really need to try harder.

So some clown wrote this up on chatGPT and put it out as news?

I'm not sure but that seems to be a more valid theory than claiming it's a court affidavit.

If Trump has his way, the US will be lily white by the end of his second term. We all know it’s true.

Those betas fake everything. I’ve stopped even looking into their fake claims. A few days later they are always debunked as straight trash.

The whole post was spot on. Just quoted a snippet for clarity.

I get the larger point with regards to immigrants. It just didn't really line up with what you quoted. It's likely easier to figure out how you got there with more of the surrounding context. Unfortunately it can be hard to follow most threads with half of the posts missing by default after finally putting a few individuals on ignore.

There were definitely right wing nuts involved, but Jan6 wasn't exclusive to them and it wasn't an outlier. I get the ideas of pillar of democracy, but those pillars crumbled awhile ago. Election "stealing"/"fixing' is the norm. Trying to steal a fixed election is US politics in a nutshell. Both sides trying to do both every election now. "No one" has faith in the system any more. If they do, it would seem to have to be of the blind variety. Between gerrymandering, ballot "trading," partisan deck stacking, etc; democracy is a myth. It just doesn't work at the scale we've reached as it has been implemented mechanically.

We've got misinformation to combat misinformation on misinformation. We've got partisan "fact checkers." There's no transparency. At the scale we're at, it's practically impossible to have transparency. We don't have well defined platforms to vote on. We've got figureheads that avoid questions and put the focus on random headline grabbers. The eating pets thing is ridiculous. Yes, the right put it out there, but the left is doing it's best to keep the discourse there instead of on the issues. It's putting people at risk.

Yes, Trump's a despicable firestarter. Unfortunately, it seems the left thinks giving them attention/pouring fuel on them will make them burn out, but are making the flames higher in the meantime. Fighting fire with fire seems to be what's happening and the whole country is burning.

Trump didn't start the trend of violence as protest. Unfortunately, he lacks restraint and will try to use whatever is available.

Hopefully that makes some sense, I have a wicked headache.

Bull, serious question.

How does the left - or anyone for that matter - not give the former POTUS and current candidate of the GOP attention?

Are you implying that somehow the media is wrong for reporting on what a former POTUS says and does? Cause if they did what you suggest, you’d turn around and claim the media is trying to silence Trump.

So I don’t get what you’re saying.

Honestly, I think a lot of it is just the nature of "media" now. Instead of just reporting the news, "mainstream" outlets have to get more incendiary to try to stay relevant. They tend to stick to topics that will rile people up. I'm not saying don't cover it. I'm saying cover it then go on to the next thing. I'm also saying it seems that rather than presenting the facts, a lot of the time they appear to be more fishing for emotions/outrage farming. A lot of media is rather biased/confrontational now. Large portions of the masses that consume that media internalize that approach. The result is an angry, divided country.

I think that's the problem with having 24 hour news networks - multiple in this case. There can't actually be 24 hours worth of news, so they target the incendiary analyses and over-analyses because it = eyeballs which = profit. The last word there is all they care about.

I agree with that, in general.

Now, back to my specific question. Do you think the media shouldn’t cover Trump, a former POTUS and current candidate for POTUS?

The media didn’t tell him to say the Haitians are eating the dogs. The media (right or left) is obligated to cover that, especially when it further leads to the divide that you just finished mentioning.

You say they should report and go on to the next thing.

Ok, what if the next thing is Trump and Vance doubling down, sometimes tripling down on the dumb crap they stated that the media just reported on? Are they supposed to ignore that?

You point could make sense if we’re talking in general, but I asked you specifically about a candidate, and you kinda gave me a vague response. Respectfully.

What they want is for the media to cover the things trump says and does that they want them to cover and ignore reporting on the things they don't want them to cover. Because for some reason they don't think what's happening now in Springfield because of their comments is newsworthy. That when they attack legal immigrants with their lies that isn't newsworthy.

They even make excuses for it like, "Yeah but these threats are originating from other countries!". Yet had trump and Vance not made these incendiary comments in the first place none of this would be happening in Springfield. But all they have for it are excuses.

And then they claim it's the other side that's nasty.

No, I don't think the media shouldn't cover Trump. I do think the media should do more than cover Trump. If Trump doing something is always the next thing, that's a problem. Why isn't anyone else doing things? Why are they always focused on Trump for the next thing? It's looking for problems.

It's what this country seems to do in most situations now. Look for problems in the other and play the blame game.

It's "never" I/we messed up. It's "always" look how they messed up. There's little accountability/responsibility and tons of entitlement/hypocrisy.

I'm sure my sense of coverage is somewhat skewed by the boards and social media. The fact that just about anyone can "cover the news" (share a story, post a meme, etc) now makes it even more important that "official"/"commercial" outlets provide varied/"balanced" information rather than seemingly targeted opinions.

Instead of the news, we get more a "reality TV" version of the news with different channels targeting different audiences, but all wanting to titillate more than inform.

It's a presidential election year. Everything both candidates say and do is news. And if trump didn't say so much crazy BS there would be nothing for them to cover. Somehow you have twisted the narrative to paint the picture they should just ignore it.

I did about a 2 minute search and saw that in Springfield Tecumseh Schools, it was a local student arrested-there were threats against another school district a couple weeks ago by same person.

In the Columbus area, there were threats against Fairfield Union Schools. The sheriff was notified by the FBI, they started investigating and yesterday 2 students were arrested and sent to juvi.

In the Pittsburgh area, there were 12 schools last week received threats last week. Responses included police presence, remote learning, cancellations and early dismissal. The caught an elementary student that made the threats to social media.

And a fellow employee who has a daughter in school talked about social media and threats after his daughters school received a number of threats. School was sent home early one day and cancelled the next. After school activities were also cancelled. He talked about as a parent how much a pain in the ass it is when you get a text at 5 in the morning that there has been a threat and they have to debate whether to send their child to school or who is going to take off work to stay home. He also noted about other students that were on the app who replied or shared the original post all were investigated by the police to see if they were part of the threat. And yes, there was a student detained in this one also.

Don't know if this has something to do with the Georgia shooting, or this latest trump debacle. trump also said something yesterday about immigrants in Charleroi, Pa. I guess that is the next stop on the racist tour.