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im kinda with lamp here. i wouldnt be all that happy to be right like that.
I mean after week 1 told anyone that talked football with me that we wouldnt make the playoffs, with certainty too.
Guaranteeing that the team youre a fan of, that they arent going to make the playoffs, is pretty boo.
boooo.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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did you want to be right? 
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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1st String
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Quote:
did you want to be right?
Hell no , just knew I was!
There is a big difference between being a fan and seeing what is real.
Guess I have been around long enough not to see what is not there. Is that so wrong? 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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1st String
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I predicted in diam's season-starting 'come one come all' thread we'd be 10-6, but that doesn't make me a genius.
Besides, predicting and guaranteeing are two different things! 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Legend
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I forget who said it ....... but I'm gonna steal it ..... Let's trade BOTH Anderson and Quinn ..... because any stiff can excel behind this line, and with this much offensive talent. What do we need a high priced QB for? Any (former) bum will do. Trade Anderson and Quinn for defensive talent, and Ken Dorsey will take us to the Super Bowl.  (yeah ... tongue in cheek)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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2nd String
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Don't count out the Ravens (I know they have Smith, but he has been 3rd-string all year). Billick tied his wagon to Boller, but he is gone and Ozzie knew what he had in DA. IMHO Just a thought....Go Brownies!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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just clicking...
First and foremost, Derek Anderson is the undisputed 1st team QB on this team. And deservedly so. It was his quick decisions and release that gave our OLine a chance to gel. We had the OLine talent for once this year...but had we stuck with Charlie...we would never had seen it. In any case, the team rallied around Derek. And his performance this year was one of the largest factors to our success this year. If Derek is here with us next year...you can pretty much bank on him being the starter with Quinn getting a chance (albeit a smaller one than a flat out open comp.) to take the spot.
Is Derek perfect? Not even close. But who reallly is? Even Brady and Manning have their difficulties. If we start the year with Derek at the helm we should be in a good position.
Now with that said, the Browns have to make moves that puts them at the greatest advantage. That means allowing the NFL to basically determine Derek's value. The Browns do not want to get rid of Derek. But they are not afraid to let him go. Big difference from from those that think because Derek may not be here next year that it is a reflection of the Browns estimation of him.
If Derek leaving puts the Browns in an advantageous position, they will let him go. I think the Browns will put the max tender on him(2.5 mil with 1st and 3rd compensation). It is the smart thing to do. It is the plan with the most flexibility. If no one signs him then we are in position to sing him long term. Which is great for the Browns. If someone tries to sign him and it seems like reasonable numbers, we match the offer and keep him. Which is great for the Browns. If the numbers are not reasonable, we let him go, we have what seems to be a very good QB in the wings, we get back into the first round(probably higher than our traded #22), and we get an extra 3rd round pick. Which is great for the Browns.
The only downside here is if Anderson leaves, Quinn turns into a bust, and Anderson becomes elite. In the limited exposure we have had....I really do not think that is going to happen. I think Quinn will be the real deal, I think Anderson will always be on the cusp of being one of the top QB's while not actualy being there.(which I would be absolutely fine with here in Cleveland)
Derek Anderson is on the table....But he still has a foot down on the Cleveland side. And the only reason he is even near the table is because it gives the Browns the best options to follow.
Now to the original topic....
I see several teams with interest....In no particular order...
Miami
Atlanta
Chicago
Detroit
Minnesota
Kansas City
San Fran
The largest player I think is Minnesota. While the receivers might need a little upgrade,the QB is the biggest thing holding this team back. It could literally turn this team into a Super Bowl Contender.
Miami is tough to read as they are in disarray. They have way too many holes. But the Tuna may want to start with the QB position....
Atlanta, I think, will be a bigger player then Miami as they have more pieces and they really need a leader on that team and Anderson could fill that role.
Chicago will be inquiring. But I think they want to be more sure of Orton first.
Detroit will keep an ear open, but I think they will be more than willing to keep Kitna and then look to Stanton in the future. Stanton should be a good QB for them.
San Fran has a mess of a situation as I think they still don't know what they have in Smith. They like what Hill has been doing. They tried to fix OLine but have not been succeeding. So I think they will remain pat.......but.....If they think they can solidify the position by making the move for Anderson, I can see them doing it.
Kansas City, I guess it depends on Herman's view of Brodie Croyle....was this year a matter of growing pains or was it proof of a bad situation. I don't think they give up on him so soon. And you do have some insurance there with Huard. I think they will look to rebuild the OLine to its prior glory.
I think Minnesota will be the biggest fish out there. And they are known for the poison pills in their contracts....in any case I think the Browns are in a fantastic position and they will do what they feel is best for the team....and they will probably be right.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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 to you, PETE... i'm so tired of people not seeing the big picture here...it's not about DA's footwork or his TD passes...it's about doing what it best for the team... and there is not 1 right answer in a vacuum...but the NFL is fluid...Ricky Williams was a great RB, but not boatload of draft picks great...DA is above average in the current NFL, but not 1st and 3rd round pick great... if the Browns had a top10 D, retaining DA would be more likely...but this team still has a ways to go for SB contention...and if trading away a GOOD player for GREAT value is an option, you do that in order to improve the team as a whole... let me provide an analogy... say i live in a nice home, and then i inherit one from a parent's passing...i'd be blessed to have two nice homes, and ideally, i'd hold onto each...BUT I CAN ONLY LIVE IN ONE AT A TIME, and if i'm struggling to pay the bills, and someone offers me great value for one of the houses, i take it...that's the better deal for my quality of life as a whole...
Browns fans are born with it...
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Quote:
If Derek leaving puts the Browns in an advantageous position, they will let him go. I think the Browns will put the max tender on him(2.5 mil with 1st and 3rd compensation). It is the smart thing to do. It is the plan with the most flexibility. If no one signs him then we are in position to sing him long term. Which is great for the Browns. If someone tries to sign him and it seems like reasonable numbers, we match the offer and keep him. Which is great for the Browns. If the numbers are not reasonable, we let him go, we have what seems to be a very good QB in the wings, we get back into the first round(probably higher than our traded #22), and we get an extra 3rd round pick. Which is great for the Browns.
The only downside here is if Anderson leaves, Quinn turns into a bust, and Anderson becomes elite. In the limited exposure we have had....I really do not think that is going to happen. I think Quinn will be the real deal, I think Anderson will always be on the cusp of being one of the top QB's while not actualy being there.(which I would be absolutely fine with here in Cleveland)
i can certainly see your point, but there are a couple of other things to consider....
first off do we want to keep him or not? if we do, then the tender is risky because of poison pill contracts, and we risk him sticking around for 1 more year and we get nothing when he walks...
in other words we only get him for 1 more year...
now if we did only keep da for one more year, and anderson remains the starter, then quinn wouldn't reach those escalators in his contract (this is off the top of my head, but i thought gets way more money if he's the starter within the first 2 years of his contract)
if we were to sign him to a longer contract, we still get him for a year, and he is still tradable to a team that wants him....or tradable immediatly if a team offers something we can't pass up...
even if we started quinn, teams might still try to trade for da..
at the end of the day i see the tender, as a cop out...why let some other team negotiate, when you could be negotiating....
to me the tender is to be used when there is a huge disparity of market value of a player....teams/players use it to find out what a guys is worth on the open market...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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See but that is practically my point...So what if there is a poison pill in the contract...if there is...let him go and get the draft picks....if there isn't one....match the offer....if no one offers...then try to sign him long term....
You cannot worry about Quinn right now...It is my personal opinion that Quinn will be better than DA...but that really doesn't matter...If you start worrying about Brady then you create that QB controversy some were trying to avoid. If Quinn wants the starters position....let him earn it.
The point is that DA staying or leaving does not affect this team with any real negative impact. And that tendering him and then trying to work out a long term deal puts the team in its most advantageous position. Once tendered, we can allow the league to determine his value and we have the flexibility to say yes or no...We are not forced to match because of Quinn.
If he goes...great...we are back in the 1st round at probably better position than if we did not trade.
If we match...great...it probably means the offers to him were fair and we got good value for his contract
If we sign him long term before any outside offers...great.....we locked him up. Quinn has to earn the job if he wants it...or we eventually trade him for something nice...lol
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Hall of Famer
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.and if trading away a GOOD player for GREAT value is an option, you do that in order to improve the team as a whole...
Exactly...What's BEST for thy TEAM???
With all of Anderson's short comings...He still did things this year that NOT ANY QB COULD...
Accuracy is his biggest problem...With as many yards as he threw up...He left a helluva lot on the field because of it...At first I thought it might be a "Timing" thang...As time went on it didn't change...It's NOT "Timing"...It's what u get with Anderson...And it ain't gonna change much over the years...
If he puts in the work...And has a quality QB Coach...He can improve his reading of defenses...Both Pre AND Post Snap...There's no doubt about that one...That's where his youth comes in to play...But Accuracy isn't something very many improve on...Either u can hit a moving target or u struggle with it...Cause Gawd knows he's had ALL DAY in the pocket most of the time...
I have NO CLUE what we could get for him...The smart thing to do is exactly what Savage has said...Tender HIGH...See what happens...Would a team like Minny be willing to say "Let's give our 3rd rounder for a QB we think can excel in this Offense...And use our 1st rounder on him???...A 1st rounder on a QB we KNOW we can throw right into the fire...Who knows...
This would not even be a decision to make if we didn't have what we deemed as our FUTURE already in the fold...IMO we cannot go wrong here...The ONLY way we lose here is if we Tender him and noone bites...We talk long term and he says NO...He signs the 1 year tender at 2+M and he flys in FA in 2009...We end up with no compensation for him...
I would be utterly SHOCKED if Anderson and his agent agree to a long termer with us...They're going to want to see the market rates...And his market rate may not be seen until he's an UFA in 2009...They may not find out that rate as a RFA Tendered with a 1 & 3 this year simply because teams won't even talk knowing they need to compensate that high...
It's a REAL possibility Anderson is here in 08 under a RFA Contract of the 1 Year Tender of 2+M...
Savage has gotta look at this and not be GREEDY...Not when the "Original" plan was Quinn from the get-go...It was only a matter of WHEN...Until Anderson did what he did...And the TEAM did what IT did...And make no mistake...There were MANY MANY tosses Anderson made that our receivers made HIGHLIGHT reel catches of...Which in itself is a SUPER thing going forward...Regardless of who our QB is...
There's TWO pieces missing in this Offense...As of RIGHT NOW we don't have a RB...But options are there in Lewis and Turner...Possibly a Taylor...That will work itself out...I have zero doubt about that one...
The BIGGER problem is Jurevicious as the #2 WR opposite Edwards...JJ does NOTHING to stretch the field...WE NEED A #2 WR...And the swirls are starting that we're interested in this Berrian kid from the Bears...If we can land Berrian or Johnson of the Cardinals this Offense will hit another level...
They wanna call Peterson of Minny "Mr All-Day"???...Tell ya' what folks...We land Berrian or Johnson and they'll be callin' Winslow "All-Day"...Defenses CANNOT Double Up on BOTH your WR's all the time...Winslow will be open every single time in Single Coverage...
If I'm Savage...And we even get a SNIFF of a team willing to take Anderson and surrender even just a First Rounder...I TAKE IT AND RUN...We won't need to throw up 27 a game after we see what goes on in FA and the Draft come the Defense...There's ALOT of options out there...And we KNOW Savage will pound this Defense this year...
With AT LEAST 4 of our Starting 5 Offensive Linemen coming back...And possibly Bentley...Brady Quinn is being set up PERFECTLY for SUCCESS...And u add that bonafide #2 to the mix and it's a DREAM David Carr and Tim Couch WISH THEY COULD PARTAKE IN....
Go Browns!!!
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To add I think the Browns want what is best for the team. So the simple wanting Derek or not is not the issue. The issue has scenarios. The Browns will pick the best scenario for this team. That may or may not include him. The 1st and 3rd round picks might look more tempting than the contract offered by another team. I mean If Miami with the #1 overall came here after DA...I think it is safe to say that Derek is gone and we welcome Glen Dorsey into the fold.....lol...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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I think it is safe to say that Derek is gone and we welcome Glen Dorsey into the fold.....lol...
Not that this would happen...BUT...
IF Parcells did that...Our pick at #1 BEST be Dorsey...
McFadden does not impress me in the least...
And if someone was in love with Dorsey or McFadden...We could get a RANSOM by trading out of the 1 hole...
Can u even imagine what extra GOOD picks would do for this team going forward...
Go Browns!!!
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BTW...Throw this one around for a bit...lol...
If I'm Savage I'd be REAL TEMPTED to Tender Anderson at a FIRST ROUNDER ONLY...
Ever wag a Dawg Bone in front of a puppy's face???
Think about that one for a bit...
Go Browns!!!
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All Pro
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All Pro
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PETE, Thanks for saying what I have been trying to say for awhile now......Only MUCH better.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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That's where his youth comes in to play...But Accuracy isn't something very many improve on...Either u can hit a moving target or u struggle with it...Cause Gawd knows he's had ALL DAY in the pocket most of the time...
And it really is a timing issue...among other things..QB's are taught even on the earliest levels to get rid of the ball (usually before a WR breaks ) so the guy can catch it out in front..the passes that are behind reflect that..
The ones where they have to jump, stretch out or twist are the control things...the feet maybe not being set or lack of control with the pass..
Perhaps the actual speed of the game hasn't caught up to him..
Savage has gotta look at this and not be GREEDY
I listened to him this morning..and he really didn't say anything different..but was more specific..he wants to upgrade the front seven FIRST...
He also said he didn't think it was realistic to not have in their plans a guy who threw for 29 TDs...and then move up a guy who played 1 series...
Now he's going to say those things until he sees clearly what he wants to do..but I as I said the other day will not be shocked if both QB's are still here come TC..
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Legend
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Quote:
Whatever we do I hope it's done quickly because we could have several more months of this debate.
That would suck. 
I agree. It gets back to the nightmare I talked about a few years back.
The team needs to have clarity, and the individual players need to have a sense of the pecking order in the off-season, so the focus can be 100% on the matter that counts.....getting better.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I agree. It gets back to the nightmare I talked about a few years back.
The team needs to have clarity, and the individual players need to have a sense of the pecking order in the off-season, so the focus can be 100% on the matter that counts.....getting better.
Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, it's better to go slowly and let things play out.
I question the need to rush to judgement on this.,,,, I doesn't seem to be a distraction for the team or coaches or FO.. just the fans,,,, and then it only seems like a small percentage of those.. Mostly on message boards..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It won't be that simple "next year".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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A new thread reads... Cam Cameron fired
There goes that idea...lol...mac
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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We should have no problem finding someone who wants DA with how poor the QB situation is around the league. I know there is a similar list in this thread but I wanted to give my input as well.
Miami - Lemon and Culpepper are both mediocre at best and Beck, though a rookie, will be 27 next year. If he's not ready to play now, can they really wait, especially with a regime change? It's definitely a possibility.
Atlanta - Harrington and Leftwich are both mediocre, both were benched because of performance and Redman is a journeyman that was rostered only because of his Petrino connection. I can't imagine they'll be content with that garbage rotation.
Kansas City - Damon Huard isn't a starting QB in this league and Croyle barely showed anything in the time he was given. They may want to target o-line instead however.
New York Jets - Not saying that they'll do it with Clemens still young but Pennington can't ever stay healthy and Clemens hasn't even come close to blowing people away yet.
Baltimore - I doubt they'd swallow the humble pie to take DA back but McNair is toast, Boller is just average and Smith is still too raw to start IMO.
Carolina - Delhomme is solid but is getting older (33), Carr is overpaid trash and Moore isn't good at all. If they want some young insurance for Delhomme, I can see it happening.
Chicago - Grossman is a free agent, Griese looks to be on the outs after being benched for Kyle Orton, who is also lousy. DA would go a long way towards fixing their big play issues and with what they have, they NEED a guy regardless.
Detroit - I'm not sure how to read into their situation but Martz was the one who pushed Kitna hard to management and he's probably gone. Kitna is nowhere near the QB he thinks he is. DA would be a nice fit in their vertical passing game but they may want to see what they can get out of Stanton.
Minnesota - There's no way that they're happy with Jackson. They traded to bring Holcomb in knowing Jackson wasn't ready and started him for a few games to realize he stinks too. Heck, Bollinger got reps for them. Jackson's mechanics are autrocious and the QB position is really the only thing keeping them back. I expect them to think long and hard about DA.
San Francisco - Smith is in the doghouse with management and if Nolan is too, a new guy may want to clean house. Dilfer isn't any good (which somehow SF didn't learn from us) and Hill is a complete unknown at this point.
IMO, that's a ton of potential interest for DA. The bottom line is that if we want to trade him, we will. It just depends on what compensation we're willing to settle on.
spect...great break down of the current QB status and potential suitors for DA's services.
Looking at the draft, I don't see any QB that you could honestly say, would be better than DA on day one of next season.
A high percentage of rookie QBs stand on the sidelines their first year learning. Teams drafting a QB will have to wait at least one season to see any benefit from their investment (drafting a QB).
DA is ready to produce for any team interested, from day one.
If I'm a GM of one of the teams listed above, I look at DA vs drafting a QB....hands down, DA produces sooner.
How quickly do teams want to get better?
Teams that already have a supporting cast but need to improve their QB situation could look at DA as a perfect fit to get them to the playoffs quicker than drafting a QB for the future.
Teams that have to do major rebuilding, knowing it will be years before they can compete for the playoffs, may tend to lean toward drafting a QB....WOOF...mac
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I think you have a valid point mac. And my dad used to always say, "Timing is everything". I know that coaches and GM's are "pro's". But despite all of that, first and foremost, they're human beings. And the fact is, head coaches and GM's drop like flies at the end of the regular season. They get fired left and right. If people don't believe that many current NFL GM's feel the "need" to win NOW, I think they're fooling themselves. When you feel your career is on the line, human nature and self preservation will come into the equasion in your judgement. You may not realise it, but self preservation is a persuacive part of one's subconcious. And if a coach or GM feels this may be their "final shot", DA would be a very tempting target over an unproven draft pick. With all of the firings, from now untill draft day, this will lay heavy on the minds of those in charge of some NFL teams. We got very lucky to have a guy in charge who "got a jump" on the QB position by an entire year. While some NFL clubs are still in a "QB quandry", our QB of the future already has his year of watching and is prepared to launch us into the future. I love to see his plan is coming together!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Those of you who know cap and contract issues, I have a question...?
Would it be cheaper, financially, for a team to go after DA, instead of drafting a QB in the first round?
Savage will likely tender DA an offer high enough to receive a 1st and 3rd round pick.
Then it will be up to the new team to negotiate a long term contract with DA.
Anyone...?....WOOF....mac
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Legend
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I can't give you a "definative answer", but I'm quite sure it would depend vastly upon "what order" you are drafting that QB in.
ie...... If you draft a QB #3 overall vs #31. So it's kind of a tricky question to give a direct answer to IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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J/K
I see a lot of talk about Miami and I just don't see that happening. Miami is a very bad football team. You don't go 1-15 because you have a lot of talent but no QB. Secondly they have the #1 pick. If it is a high tender you don't give the #1 pick and a third. There are just way too many holes in Miami for them to give the picks for a QB.
The same could be said for any of the teams drafting in the top 5. That means you can eliminate Atlanta and KC as well.
I think this is the type of move made by a team that thinks they are a QB away from competing.
These are the teams I think will give a real look.
Chicago- Grossman is done. Greise is not the answer and with a defense as good as the Bears the really need an offense. They could very well see DA as the missing piece. If so they could make the move and would have to wait for another rookie QB to get used to playing in the NFL while the defense gets old. The problem with the Bears is I see Mcnabb playing in Chicago.
Vikings- This team is intriguing to me because it all depends on how much confidence they have in Jackson. They nearly made the playoffs so maybe they see the QB as the missing piece. This is team with a good running attack and an above average defense. If they could find someone to throw the ball and maybe a solid WR they could become a decent playoff team.
Lions- I never understood the obsession with Kitna. He puts up big passing yards and throws some TD's but gives the ball to the other team way too much. With all the focus on WR's and offense for this team it only makes sense to get a QB that can get them the ball
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Mac I gave you this answer on page one when you asked it...take me off your ignore for a moment - read it then put me back on 
Contract would be better for the overall #1 pick economically - better if you were the Player. Team would save money on what they will get for DA compared with Overall #1 contract.
9/10/2007: Signed a six-year, $61 million contract. The deal includes $29.2 million in guarantees (all six years' base salaries), with a one-time performance bonus bringing the guaranteed amount to $32 million. Another $7 million is available through incentives. Russell will earn a $3 million bonus in 2010 if he takes 35% of the team's snaps in 2007, 45% in 2008, or 50% in 2009. 2007: $2.975 million, 2008: $3.71875 million, 2009: $4.4625 million, 2010: $5.20625 million, 2011: $5.953 million, 2012: $6.693 million, 2013: Free Agent
I'm sure DA would sign for a lot less but like all contracts the guarantee is the kicker...32mil guaranteed is a lot - DA will be more than happy to get half of that gurantee.
But it basically falls under risk and reward. Unless there is a Close to Sure thing wonder out there like John Elway or Payton Manning - the risk is high for the history of reward. I think the value of DA comes in his 18 games as a starter. There is enough film on him to evaluate him and know what he is. If anybody actually works out DA he would wow them and seal the deal. He really makes some fantastic throws on a consistent basis when warming up. Many coaches who are ehhh about the film will think that they can make him into a better QB and get those great throws more often under their tutorledge.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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I'm finding that we are agreeing on subjects more and more lately. I don't know about you, but frankly, it scares the hell out of me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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From now locked thread... Quote:
Zona was in a terrible division...if Texans get praised for the toughest division...Zona can't get credit for being in the worst. The media loved Zona cause of Wisenhunt and Co.
This is true. The NFC West is as bad as they come. The thing about Zona is they actually lost to SF twice! They did beat us, Pittsburgh, and Cincy. Cincy isn't much of an accomplishment and Pit and us didnot play very well overall. The thing is they beat Seattle, played Washington, Tampa Bay real tough. Then they lose to Atlanta. Jekyll and Hyde.
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Even the Bengal game, heck that was a shootout but he made some bad throws with very wide open WRs that became TDs and big gains - biggest moment statistically for him??? but Not a great game by him as a QB.
I agree completely and said so then. He also got away with a couple of sure picks.
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But thank you for bringing up Jekyll n Hyde...again my term for DA and not really what I want leading us to a championship or for that matter being able to lead us!
I don't want a QB that is hot and cold from game to game. I do however want to give him a chance to grow on this team while competing for the starting job. I think he is a starter in this league and can get better. I have not always felt this way. I do believe from what Diam thinks of Quinn (He does know football and has watch all of his games) that Quinn should be able to beat him out. The thing IMO is we have a chance due to cap space to have a backup that can lead us to victories if our starter goes down or struggles. That is huge to me.
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Me... Quote:
What does all this mean? Nothing really
You
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Nothing to someone who wouldn't know how to apply the information..
Now if you are trying to tell me that just posting QB ratings and comp. % by themselves means something, I would have to say you are nuts.
I did give some explanations for each game, but that doesn't tell the whole picture either. I love to use stats to help support my arguements but think using them by themselves is pointless. They mean very little. The Seahawk game is a prime example.
60.4% comp. and 75.3 QB rating? Doesn't look that good. Then you factor in he threw for 364 yards and a pick but no TDs. We also put up 33 points. How? because Lewis had TD runs of 2yds., 1yd, 2yds. and 1 yd.
The Buffallo game is another example. He was in a FREAKIN" BLIZZARD How can you use those numbers for anything?
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Legend
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Why are you arguing with yourself? 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
The thing IMO is we have a chance due to cap space to have a backup that can lead us to victories if our starter goes down or struggles. That is huge to me.
And it is "huge".
The entire question is IMO, just "how huge"?
At what juncture is an offer worth "more than a quality back up QB"?
I see people that seem to think we don't "need" high draft picks. That for some reason they feel we've reached a point that all we need are a couple of quality FA's to "get to the promised land".
I don't believe that. I believe you ALWAYS continue to build through the draft. If you just won three Super Bowls in a row, you still keep building through the draft.
It's a balancing act to be sure, but at some juncture, getting quality players and or draft picks over the "security blanket" of your back up QB, the offer is simply to great.
I don't know exactly where that threshold is, but I'm sure that Phil and RAC do.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I have a spilt personality...Actually the second was for Attack
#gmstrong
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Quote:
At what juncture is an offer worth "more than a quality back up QB"?
Once we have a known quanity at QB no offer should be considered unless it is outrageous. That being a 1st and 3rd. That will not happen IMO.
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I see people that seem to think we don't "need" high draft picks.
We still need high draft picks. If we were offered just a first for DA I would be very hesitant because I don't know for sure what we have in Quinn. I assume he will be better than DA but I (and niether do any of you) don't know for sure. If we do make a trade then I think it would be a safe assumption that Quinn is ready in the coaching staffs eyes.
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I believe you ALWAYS continue to build through the draft.
I agree but things are changing somewhat. With the way the salary cap has grown it is eaiser to bring in free agents without destroying your cap. Home grown is always better because you can usually get a discount on resigning your own players.
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I don't know exactly where that threshold is, but I'm sure that Phil and RAC do.
So do I.
I have also been on record that I think we need to try to resign DA now, not after we tender him. IMO it would be the smartest thing to do long term. We will never get a 1st and 3rd for him but if someone did want him they still could trade for him. I think we would have a better chance of trading him if we could sign him to a reasonable contract that another team wouldn't balk at.
If we can't sign him we can still tender him and then match any offer. We will run the risk of overpaying for him even if we offer him a contract now but the chances are less IMO. If we were to just tender him and he remained our starter and improves it could be very, very expensive long term. We might even be put in a position to have to franchise him. That is real expensive.
The only way to know for sure is in hindsight. Too bad we can't see in the future.
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Now if you are trying to tell me that just posting QB ratings and comp. % by themselves means something, I would have to say you are nuts.
 First..I posted the QB ratings and completition %'s...so thats why I said what I said..it does mean something..but not everyone will understand how to look at it.. second..stop arguing with yourself.. 
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Here's the stats again..
DA's completion % & passer rating after the bye week:
72.0% -- 143.0
60.4 -- 75.3
45.7 -- 83.4
63.2 -- 73.8
68.6 -- 96.5
51.2 -- 71.6
55.2 -- 83.3
37.5 -- 57.1
60.4 -- 53.4
55.0 -- 75.4
Now something else ...his completition % broken down for the season..
Attempts 1-Through-10 yds 50.6 % completition
Attempts 11-Through-20yds 63.9 %completition
Attempts 21-Through-30yds 55.4 %completition
Attempts 31+ yds 55.7 %completition
The leaders in each category:
Brady : Attempts 1-Through-10 yds 69% completition
Brady: Attempts 11-Through-20yds 72.5 %completition
Farve : Attempts 21-Through-30yds 72.3 %completition
Big Ben: Attempts 31+ yds ---- 71.4 %completition
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
At what juncture is an offer worth "more than a quality back up QB"?
Once we have a known quanity at QB no offer should be considered unless it is outrageous. That being a 1st and 3rd. That will not happen IMO.
Here's the catch 22. IF we keep DA another year, and Quinn ends up being our starter next year, DA's value drops like a rock. Right now a team would be paying for "an NFL starting QB". Given the scenario Quinn does start next year, at that point, other teams will be paying for "a back-up NFL QB".
Point being, unless DA starts here next year and has similar success, his trade value is at its peak now.
Let's take it up a notch. After a year having Quinn on the team, don't you feel that our FO and coaching staff have "a strong idea where they stand" in regards to Quinn?
By their own admission, they ARE entertaining offers. While I do believe that you're right, we in all likelihood will not get a first and third offer, we may find a cap strapped team, who feels they have enough depth on the DL to offer a high dollar DL player and a second. ( Just an example )
I do believe that at this juncture, our FO WOULD take into consideration where Quinn is at in regards to his development. We already know they believe Quinn has the tools to take us into the future. The investment they made to acquire him punctuates that.
So if our FO and coaching staff feels Quinn is "ready", do you really believe they would pass up a top notch DL player and valuable second round pick for their "back up of the future"?
I do believe there are deals that could easily fall short of "a pure first and third" that the FO would entertain. And if they feel Brady is "ready for prime time" I would be a tad disapointed if they didn't.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Right now a team would be paying for "an NFL starting QB". Given the scenario Quinn does start next year, at that point, other teams will be paying for "a back-up NFL QB".
The Falcons made out pretty nicely when they traded their "back-up NFL QB" (bet they wish they could take it back, too  ).
The other school of thought is that DA hits the bench with a 29 TD season and can't hurt his stock on the field, thus making him still and possibly more(depending on the dire straits of a GM) coveted.
Also, off-topic - I'm not sure I buy the whole 'no GM in the league would offer a 1st for DA' I've heard from many people....no GM in the league *should* offer a 1st for DA...but GM's make DUMB decisions everyday.
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Quote:
but GM's make DUMB decisions everyday.
Yes he does...Oh wait, you meant NFL GMs.  I'm not sure of anything. Someone might think they can fix Da's faults and can make a top notch QB. There is also the point that this coming QB class is weak. I know I have very little faith in the QBs coming out with respect to their passing game.
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EO...I read your post back on page one.
The reason I asked the question again...hoping to get more opinions.
The Dolphins are going to be faced with the opportunity to draft the Boston College QB, Matt Ryan, #1 overall or any other QB they happen to prefer in this draft, #1 overall.
I'm looking at the situation through the eyes of the team and what is best for the team...not the player.
Financially, it would seem that signing Anderson would be a better financial move than spending 60 mill or so on a QB with the first pick in the draft.
Your contract example for Russell, last years first round pick by the Raiders, gives us an idea how expensive a drafted QB could be.....a six-year, $61 million contract. The deal includes $29.2 million in guarantees (all six years' base salaries), with a one-time performance bonus bringing the guaranteed amount to $32 million.
...I did some digging to see if I could come up with some figures to show an example of a contract to show the cost of signing a tendered QB. The Texans paid Schuab 48 million over 6 years with 7 million bonus.
Here's a link to the Nov.29, 2007 story from the Plain Dealer, where Savage is discussing his options. I missed this story when it was posted at that time but it clearly gives us an idea of the kind of money a team might be looking at, to sign Anderson to a long term contract.
web page
6 yrs/61 million/29-32 million guaranteed
vs...
6 yrs/48 million/7 million bonus
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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That guarentee money is huge. I don't think I would be comfortable for shelling out that kind of money for any QB in this draft.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Which teams might benefit from a
trade for DA?
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