DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2024 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 15 Giants 21 Postgame Rants

When you have a roster worthy of being a contender and are 6.5 pt favorites at home to a team considered to be a bottom feeder with a bottom 5 QB and get manhandled, that’s a coaching issue. There’s no two ways around it. This has happened entirely too many times under Stefanski’s watch.

He’s an average to below average coach who gets average to below average results with an above average roster. It is what it is. You don’t need to overthink it.

And now we are stuck with him after getting the extension.

I like KS and I hate to think what you're saying is true but there has to be something to it. The only question I have is how could we have got those 11 wins last year if he wasn't a good coach? He did a great job with all that turmoil. Not many HC could have done that.

my criticism of KS:

1. We traditionally run a soft camp. We always seem to be soft out of the gate

2. He doesn't mesh well with Watson. Whether or not it's his fault, it's still his QB. Watson is so freaking bad right now.

3. The penalty issue has reared its ugly head too often

That's a perfect example of what I was saying about practices. The qb drops back half assed, hops a few times, then throws it. Everything is half speed in practice. It doesn't work in games.

I disagree. Why was the offensive coaching staff blown up after what they accomplished last year with Watson sidelined? Why is this the second year in a row the Browns have had to "completely revamp" their offense? I have my doubts Stefanski was behind the Dorsey hire. The Tommy Rees hire. These are desperate moves by the Browns brass to try and salvage the absolute disaster that is Deshaun Watson.

Have the Browns even announced the length of the contract extension that Stefanski received?

If I were a betting man (and I am!), I'd put the odds of Haslam blowing this whole thing up at the end of season at -185.

Stefanski had Jacoby Brissett running a top 10 offense and Flacco throwing for 300 yards nearly every game off the couch.

Watson and Haslam's poor decision to make him an offer he could not refuse will continue to drag this team down.

Is Stefanski perfect? No. However, this biggest problem facing this team is the abysmal play of the QB. Stefanski will have another HC job before Watson has a starting job.

Sorry déisle I didn’t respond to this earlier. I was frustrated last night and venting. I shouldn’t tell others what to think about this football team but we need to keep going and see what happens. Negativity isn’t something I like.

That said, I feel very demoralized about almost everything. No run game, our OL is in tatters and we don’t know who’s playing where on the line when we go to Vegas, the offence looks like crap. The Giants seemed a lot more ready for us than we were for them.

We can’t score points, or sustain drives. Yank DW if this offence looks like this against the raiders in the first half. Not because it’s all his fault, but something needs to change.

The FO, ownership included, doesn’t want to admit that the trade for Watson won’t pay dividends. Head meeting a brick wall.

Quincy Carrier had a really good (imo) summary of the game.

-Each quarter was like a different game for the Browns. Each one had a different glaring issue.


For me, if the Browns can't beat the Giants, at home, after they spot us a TD... then might as well pack it in. IR Garrett and get him his surgery... send Ward to a retreat with no hitting and no screens and let him unscramble his brain. Figure out what unholy deal Houston did with the league to come out of the Watson situation as clean as they did (part of that is finding a useful idiot). If this team can't get it done vs teh Giants, it ain't happening this season.


The D looked SUPER mediocre. Vintage Browns defense right there letting a bad QB have a career day. Our tackles were horrendous, but I was more disappointed at the bad play of our interior Oline. We looked better when we had to shuffle everyone around. The interior line and our D is supposed to be our strengths and both looked uninspired at best, straight bad at their worst.

Our offense looks like a hodgepodge of different ideas/intentions. We're not good at anything. I swear we're trying to fit square pegs into round holes everywhere.

This loss was depressing. Maybe I'll come around but I really don't see anything to hang my hat on. Our D isn't winning us any games this year.

I don't disagree that Watson is an issue, but I've been a skeptic of Stefanski since pre-Watson. He's not the worst coach the Browns have had, but I don't think he's above league average.

I think Stefanski is an incomplete head coach. There are things I like about him -

--This is superficial, but I like that he's not a slob on the sidelines.
--His intelligence and the way he handles himself in pressers.
--His lack of ego and the lack of drama between himself, the rest of the coaching staff, and the FO. They are all in lock step. They have brought much needed stability.
--Lack of ego, part 2 ...The way he brought in Vrabel says a lot about his emotional maturity.
--I like his aggression on game day. He's not afraid to take risks. We don't play timid. I think this has served us well under his tenure.

The things that concern me about him are -

--The team just can't seem to rise to the challenge and meet expectations. We are only successful when we are underdogs, and there has been no sustained success.
--I don't like his training camps. I think they are soft and unproductive. I think the play on the field confirms that.
--We are undisciplined.
--I think the players like him, but i don't think they fear him, and I don't think they would take a mountain for him, if taking the mountain was difficult. I just don't see that kind of motivator. And while these are grown adults, I do think people are affected by leadership style. You have to be somewhat motivating.
--I think he puts too much emphasis on the process and not enough on strategy. He pretty much admitted today they only prepared for what they saw on tape with the Giants and basically implied that while it is their job to adjust in game, they really didn't because they didn't prepare for it. So I am pretty sure practice went like this ... practice our plays, study some film on what the Giants do, and prepare for that. He has his checklist, he got all his tasks done. But when curveballs are thrown we don't seem able to withstand them.
--I like and dislike his play calling. I swear he calls plays that should work whether we can execute them or not. Those are two distinct and different things...play design and execution. He's more about the play design than the execution. I think in his mind if the play develops like he designed it, we should be able to execute it. Never mind that Deshaun is not a pocket passer, for example. It doesn't matter, it won't stop him from making those calls all game long.

I think Stefanski is what he is...a first time head coach who has reached his ceiling unless he changes things up. He had a golden opportunity to be the CEO head coach and stuck with his comfort zone. He's not likely to change things up until his second job when he's had a chance to reflect. I fear we are stuck with him, finishing third in the AFC North for the foreseeable future, with an occasional lightning in a bottle playoff season when no one expected us to do anything. It's depressing.

As for the coaching staff changes, I don't agree. I don't think those changes were forced on him. I just don't think the organization runs that way anymore. And I don't think Stefanski would stand for it. I'm sure they discussed it, maybe he needed to be persuaded, and they made the decision together. I do agree that it's unfortunate that they have to cater to Watson so much, but that's the bed they made, and we all have to lie in it. But it will be over after this year. Silver lining in all this is, we suck (I'm predicting a 5-12 finish), we take a QB in the first round, and they figure out how to unload Watson somehow after this season.

I know your thing is to argue with every single person on the board regardless if you’re right or not. Just like this. Yes, that’s what ended up happening AFTER we granted permission to interview and subsequently leave. But didn’t have to. He was under contract.

Rish... fair and reasonable post. I can get onboard with some of Stefanski's weaknesses you point out. His 'servant leadership' style does not work when a team needs kicked in the tuchus. That style of leadership is better suited for teams that have strong leaders in the locker room that hold each other accountable. Are Browns players even permitted to question Watson?

We are far more tethered to Watson than we are Stefanski. Stefanski doesn't have a massive dead cap. Haslam has already shown he's willing to urinate his money away.

We certainly disagree on who is directing the changes. The fall back is that everything is "collaborative." It's an intentionally vague term so no party can be held responsible for decision making. To me, it's clear the Browns brass are hell bent on forcing a a shotgun heavy, 11 personal offense. This is not what Stefanski does well. If he was so receptive to these changes he'd turn over the play-calling to Dorsey whom is familiar with that style of play.

Game 1: Heavy shotgun, deep routes, lots of 11 personnel. Loss and offense is a complete disaster.

Game2: Stefanski goes into self preservation mode: jumbo packages, Zinter and Harris playing as extra TEs, ground and pound with Foreman, short and quick passes. Managed a win.

Game 3: Heavy shotgun, deep routes, lots of 11 personnel. Loss and offense is a complete disaster. Play calling not suitable given the OL woes.

There is a complete disconnect with this offense.

From Jason Lloyd's article today in The Athletic:

This is a team built to run the ball and throw off play-action. It’s an offense that thrives on heavy sets with multiple tight ends or extra linemen as blockers. It’s how the Browns have been designed since Kevin Stefanski took over in 2020. When they hold close to those principles, good things typically happen. They even demonstrated late last season they can pile up plenty of yards and points — and victories — playing that way.

It’s when they try to be something they’re not that they get exposed. It happened in that embarrassing opener against Dallas and it happened again in Sunday’s catastrophic 21-15 loss to the New York Giants.

The Giants have three good defensive players: defensive ends Kayvon Thibodeaux and Brian Burns and defensive tackle Dexter Lawrence. That’s it. Yet the Browns lined up Sunday insisting on trying to throw deep down the field over and over behind an offensive line that has struggled with performance and injuries and with a quarterback who at his very best remains very shaky.
.......

I spent last week asking a handful of players about the victory at Jacksonville. The heavy packages, the emphasis on establishing the run early … it all looked very much like last year’s offense. NFL players don’t like revealing much strategy, but yes, it also felt to them like the offense Stefanski ran with great success last season.

There was nothing sexy about the execution or style, and if we’re being honest it wasn’t good enough to beat the best teams still to come on the schedule, but it was effective enough to win a conference game on the road.
.....

Something within this organization seems to be preventing this offense from playing to its strengths. Not their perceived strengths, but what they’re actually, legitimately good at. I don’t know if it’s Watson or ownership or something/someone in between. But it seems evident there is some force at work within the Browns that refuses to let this team be what it actually is.

That isn’t to absolve Stefanski of blame. Leaving backup tackle Germain Ifedi inactive Sunday with how thin the Browns are on the edges seemed curious before the game and a full-blown disaster in the second half when Wills, James Hudson and Wyatt Teller all went down within a handful of snaps.

Just to keep things in perspective.

We have completed 3 games. IMO we are 1 game behind the chains. Not where we had hoped, but it isn't the end of the world at this point.

That said, there are troubling signs. The O isn't in sync and the O has suffered some blows along the offensive line. This week is an important week in the young season. It's never easy for us to play out west and we don't want to get 2 games behind the .500 mark.

I don't know what we will do, but I expect to see double TE's and a grind it out, ball control effort, at least a good portion of the time. I think it is easier for a O-line that is a rag-tag type lineup to play smash mouth rather than a pass-pro type attack.

Run the ball with quick, smart passing. Toss it deep every now and then to keep the D on the up and up. We always seem to throw in a wrinkle play or two, but maybe scrap the jet sweep to Moore. That play doesn't work because teams expect that. If you are going to run the play, maybe use someone who the other team doesn't expect to get the ball.

Just a thought.

My intention was to state what actually happened instead of some fantasy people built up in their minds. There's a lot of things to blame this FO and coaching staff for. But this isn't one of them.

You're right that "they didn't have to". But allow me to ask you this, if you hold a coach at any level hostage and refuse to allow him to go work with his son, who the hell is going to want to take a job with your organization moving forward?

So you think forcing someone to stay here would have been the right thing to do? Callahan decided to go. The only other option was to force him to stay.

Some people insist on only looking at one side of the coin. Because if in fact they looked at both sides of the coin they would have to have a more balanced opinion.

Is it the Oline... Is it the QB,,,, is it the OC?


There was pretty much nothing we could have done about Callahan.. He was going to go no matter what. With him, no matter who you put on the line, they seemed to come in prepared better than now. We could have done something about keeping Flacco.. Not sure that would have been smart, but we could have. And I still don't know why Van Pelt was fired so that didn't have to happen.

I don't know the answer but I do know that this team isn't anything like I was expecting.

The Haslams are asking for this city to pony up a lot of money for a new facility. Not sure I'd be so inclined to do that until they fix the product on the field. (that's probably short sighted)

The FO decided to prevent a QB controversy rather than keep Flacco. We see how well that is working out. We all know the fans would be screaming for Flacco right now and since this FO went all in on watson they felt they couldn't have that because not only would it make them look bad it would be a PR nightmare.

Maybe we can give Dante Scarnecchia a call. He’s an excellent OL coach and every bit as good as Callahan.

im still confused as to how we got worse at O line with Wills back in.

unless ofcourse he sucks.

j/c:

Did Dawand Jones look 500 lbs. to anyone else or was it just me?

he looked like he hadn't lifted a finger since our game in Houston last January. Really disappointing

Probably the same way that Dawand and Teller have looked bad this year, but were freaking great last year.

He looks like a complete slob. Slow and seriously out of shape. I bet he is currently over 400lbs. He's going to blow a knee.

The "we want Winston" chants were getting pretty loud last Sunday at the stadium.

That's what I've heard. And he isn't even the QB that led the browns to the playoffs last year.

I wonder if Dorsey's hire was KS slowly moving himself into the CEO-coach role.

This, but he also looked like he'd only played the position for like a week prior to the game. It looked like his feet were all messed up and getting crossed up or something.

And I wonder if it was Stefanski is the one who made that call in the first place? I'm not sure why a HC would want to replace coaches on the O side of the ball after managing to make the playoffs while being forced to start four different QB's through the season. In three out of the last four games of the regular season games the Browns scored 31 points against the Jags, 36 points against the Texans and 37 points against the Jets. That seems like strange time to make the call of changing your O coaches.

Browns QBR score ranked by year:

1. Brian Hoyer (2014)
2. Kelly Holcomb (2002)
3. Tim Couch (2000)
4. Derek Anderson (2007)
5. Baker Mayfield (2021)
6. Josh McCown (2015)
7. Trent Silver (2005)
8. Colt McCoy (2011)
9. Jacoby Brissett (2022)
10. Baker Mayfield (2020)
11. Charlie Frye (2006)
12. Kelly Holcomb (2003)
13. Brandon Weeden (2012)
14. Tim Couch (2001)
15. Jeff Garcia (2004)
16. DeShone Kizer (2017)
17. Brandon Weeden (2013)
18. Tyrod Taylor (2018)
19. Derek Anderson (2008)
20. Baker Mayfield (2019)
21. Deshaun Watson (2023)
22. Brady Quinn (2009)
23. Deshaun Watson (2024)


how about that list

Wow.

Since we just got past week 3 of the season I think making such a ranking at this point is premature at best and sneaky deceptive at worse for people willing to fall for it. There are still 14 games to go before anyone can actually compare results "for the season".

@Memphis

😂 😂


Right after an episode of MADTV. - Which I thought was a great show btw.

Hard to believe nobody in our FO saw this coming. He’s looking like damaged goods at this point. I’m not saying it’s impossible or that DW can’t improve, but his flailing around out of the gun is taking Ski’s strong suit off the table. This O is not last year’s O, not even close. And the ONLY variable I can see is the QB position because we have strong players that returned from that team across the board. Coaching is taking a hit due to this too, because SKI didn’t luck into the COY twice in four years. Fix or replace the QB and I bet this teams starts killing it. If we continue to get more of the same scheming, shotgun QB, and adjusted playbook we’ve see so far this year is over. IMHO, if DW has even a smidge of elite QB left in the tank, we need to mimic Lamar’s style of QB play with Watson. Make him get comfortablke doing it all, then take the reins off. A short leash, right now, might be what he needs.

I'm thinking if there is not marked improved with Watson he will eventually get benched. He may also end up getting injured if our O line doesn't hold up for him.

It's tough being a Browns fan.

Tough? It’s damn near impossible!!!!

I can't imagine us trotting Watson out there next year if he's THIS bad this season

At some point we'll be out of the playoff race this year, so who cares to keep playing him ... but if we end up like 7-10 and he's this bad, he can't be the QB next year

This is so disheartening, but so is being slapped with the fact that we peaked with Brian Hoyer and the Couch/Holcomb debate.