DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A New Course

Step one, find a new GM that can actually draft. The reason we have all those old people is because Berry can't find talent on his own so he has to build through FA. You say we need a new QB.. meh.. I'm not sure we need a new QB as much as we need a new GM.. I know.. Watson bad...anyone else good. While he hasn't been stellar, he's shown enough this year that you can firmly point to bigger issues than him that need to be fixed. Our overall talent on this teams has taken a nosedive since AB took over, particularly at skill positions

I thought about this the other day .. if I was the current GM, what would I hope to accomplish this year? (assuming we will not make the playoffs)

I would do anything in my power to acquire mid round picks next draft. It's a deep draft especially in the 2-3 rounds from all accounts

We need to get young and better at the OL positions - I'd draft one of the young QBs in the 1st and then literally go OT/OT/OG or whatever

That means selling off anyone of value right now - Cooper, Zadarius, Moore, Hicks, Ogbo, etc

Yeah, our FO and head coach are here for at least 3 more years IMO. We have to salvage enough of the roster and turn over the rest quick enough.
I'd say a year ago we were much higher on Dawand, Emerson, and Newsome ... having an OT and 2 CB spots sured up makes a rebuild easier. Now, it appears to be less as solid

I'm not sure if the DW experiment has failed.

I am sure a new course is needed.

That would be as simple as.

Having ALL the players practice and have them as close to game shape as possible.

When a player admits soft practicing.

I don't feel like putting blame on one player is the reason for a horrendous start.

I don't believe calling fans who have faced continued disappointment "fickle fans" is in any way an accurate description. Every time they have a season that gives them encouragement it seems the very next season is a huge letdown. I think the frustration that creates is a normal human reaction.

And I certainly agree that no GM has a perfect record. It certainly does require a huge support staff to fulfill all of the obligations required to succeed. And while you may not think it's fair, the GM s responsible for the roster. He is paid to oversee and hire his own support staff, oversee the salary cap, the daft and the FA signings. This also includes the hiring of the coaching staff. That's a lot to put on one mans plate. Yet at the same time we see NFL GM's who do find success at the position. Even those who have long term, continued success at the position.

One obstacle this FO will be facing is how they have pushed paying off these big contracts into future seasons where many of these players will no longer be here. Maybe that's a common practice in the NFL these days. I'm really not sure. But there will be big payouts after some of them are long gone. That won't be helpful in the rebuild we all know will be coming shortly.

They chose to pay a kings ransom to bring watson in because they knew the window of opportunity was short. That window of opportunity may have been shorter than what they thought it was.

One fact remains no matter how fair some may think it is. When a person signs on to be an NFL GM they know exactly all of the responsibilities they are hired to be accountable for. They undertake that responsibility when they sign on the dotted line. After that the buck stops with them.

This narrative that the GM and HC are here to stay is,quite frankly dumb.Those positions are fired yearly with time remaining on contracts.It wasn't that long ago the browns were paying 3 HCs and 2 GMs simultaneously.

the contracts arent guaranteed.. sorry that doesn't guarantee they are here any determinate amount of time if we keep playing like we have. Especially when we play division games and the talent gap is evident and the coaching as well. Perfect scenario they get in a groove and all this noise goes away, we have all out picks again and Berry can go and get some help where we need it. While he hasn't been one here, Watson has shown to be a franchise Qb. We will have the rest of his contract to figure that out. Unless he starts playing like PJ walker. But through all the noise we have a winning record with him. Getting a consistent running game and getting the oline to block and the wr to catch will fix about 99 percent of the issues this team has. But back to Berry/KS. Berry hasn't proven even a little he can draft on the offensive side of the ball. I would not want him picking a franchise QB in the draft. With KS inability to develop players, whoever is picked better be NFL ready and not a project or reach, so you will have to try to move up. At some point you hope they start to do better at those things and we can continue to keep the staff together. But I can't see things continuing like this, stuck in the middle of being the basement or a playoff contender year in and year out, without a change being made

Second period finished. 1-1. It’s going to be a long evening.

Thanks to all of you for expressing your opinions about our GM and a rebuild. I agree with most of it. Being a GM isn’t easy but the most important thing is to build a solid foundation based on discipline, determination and accountability.

A organization like the Browns would do better with players who have more determination and character than pure talent when rebuilding the roster.

We also need more natural leaders on all levels.

Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski isn't bad people or without knowledge how to run an organization but judging from the outside they don’t have that X factor that separates good from excellent.

Good isn’t enough to transform the Browns to being one of the better teams, we need excellence and abundance of players with the right character.

I'm sorry but I'm not the one who called fans who consistently get disappointed as "fickle fans". I'm not the one who brought the fan aspect into this discussion. I simply replied to it.

It's not easy to make all of the calls a GM has to make. I thought I actually made that quite clear. And he certainly has to have faith in faith in the opinions of others. After all, he's the one who hired them in the first place. Why would anyone not have faith in the people they hired to their positions in the first place? The actual question at hand is did he and does he continue to hire the right people?

jc


In last Sunday's game, I thought Watson looked like he started to turn the corner. Once he stopped throwing sideways and started throwing down the field he looked much better. Makes me wonder if Ski was calling all of those conservative sideways throws this whole time. Maybe they just needed to let Watson throw.

I felt like Watson finally had a little bit of "screw it and play" without hesitating. You could see him competing the 2nd half. He will wasn't like all world, but better

As you said ...''Good isn’t enough to transform the Browns to being one of the better teams, we need excellence and abundance of players with the right character.''

I really started losing hope in that unwatchable first half of the Giants game. The number of sacks and hits Watson took was ridiculous. Our penalties showed lack of preparation. Injured riddled offensive line with no quality back ups.
I kept waiting for coaches to have an quick answer for Giants pass rush, or change defensive strategy because Emerson had trouble in coverage on his man.
I was hoping our coaches were capable of making changes during the game before things got too embarrassing.
Oh well, GO BROWNS!

I think the premise of the post is good.

I take huge exception to these points though - or if you like I can answer the thus:

Leave the football team and everything regarding players and coaching entirely and 100% up to the "Football people" that are in charge. If you don't have the right people in place (and I believe that to be the case if you ware looking for excellence) then let them fail without any interference - and replace them when the time is right. Replace them again with more 'football people' - and leave those folks to run the ship without interference or direction from Jimmy.

When I say 'football people' - I don't mean old school or 'Dorsey' types ... I mean GM's and HC's that you (the royal 'you') hire to do a job.

I do not want Jimmy walking the halls, asking players and coaches for input - I don't want a direction from Jimmy - I don't want a philosophy or direction from Jimmy. I want Jimmy to hire the best people and then let them do their job. If he doesn't get the right people - leave them alone, let them fail off their own decisions and replace them when/if needed.


* To Add ... all the great points you raise are for Berry to answer and work out. His and his alone - with input from Stefanski and Depo and others from the FO. But no input from Jimmy please.

The old saying "Hope for the best but prepare for the worst" comes to mind from reading your post and I agree. Contingency plans are always a good thing.

So a QB who is Older than Watson, Has never in his career even come close to Watson's production. Is a known turnover machine can be "reborn" lol some people just can't see reason through their hatred. Look I like Winston as a backup.. but the stuff you are spouting is just hyperbole and not based in reality or even a single bit of data to corroborate your crazy claims. You basically admit the OL sucks, and the WR sucks, yet still blame the QB.. who by the way, has graded well above those groups every game. Is he perfect no, but we have about 15 problems more important than Watson. But your solution to defecating your pants is to just change your shirt

I certainly agree with you in regards to this team needing to get younger and I think they know that. As I have said before I think the, what I consider a desperation move to sign watson to that huge contract and giving up a huge amount of draft assets was due to them seeing that having this talent assembled gave them a short window of opportunity. That their stars were getting older and having kicked the can down the road by renegotiating contracts to where they'll be paying some of these players even after they're gone is further evidence of that.

They thought watson was the answer to the QB position and that QB was the key ingredient left to make a SB or even multiple SB runs. As such they went all in. As it turns out, to this point they were wrong. The window on the rest of the roster in general also closed quicker than they thought it would. That's how we got to where we are now. But that still begs to question what happened so quickly? We saw this same team motivated last season. We witnessed Stefanski almost will this team to win last year and make the playoffs in some very unlikely circumstances. So how did that all fall apart in one off season?

As it pertains to me that's a hypothetical question because I have no clue to the answer. I have my theories but nothing to substantiate them so I won't get into that.

But yes, it is disheartening. I guess we do differ in how we see the future of the team. Each season we see teams turn from zeros to heroes virtually overnight. We'll be playing one such team on Sunday. Last season the Commanders only won 4 games total. This season after losing their first game they have won 3 in a row. Their rookie QB Jayden Daniels has helped provide a spark I don't believe anyone could have seen coming outside the Commanders locker room.

So things can turn on a dime. But we do agree it will take AB getting pro active now and creating a plan that works. I won't predict a future of doom and gloom about the future because I know that it isn't always the case for teams playing badly. More than likely you are right. But watching teams like Washington and Tampa Bay have shown that if you find the right pieces to your own puzzle things can turn around quickly. That gives me reason to hope.

That sounds a lot like what people across the NFL said last season when the Browns pulled Flacco off the couch. Hell he was playing so bad that the Jets didn't even keep him around as their backup and 30 other teams made the decision to leave him on the couch. Yeah, I know what he did "years earlier" but every NFL FO around the league knew those days were long gone.

J/C. I'm old enough to remember (as are many on here) the 1980 Kardiac Kids season when the Browns won so many games late that could have gone the other way and ended up 11-5. Brian Sipe was the NFL MVP, Mike and Greg Pruitt were the RBs, Ozzie Newsome, Dave Logan, etc led an offense that was explosive. The defense had some age to it, but was solid. The 1981 season opened with big expectations. All the things that went well seemed to go the other way. The team looked slow and old. Sipe threw 17 TDs an 25 INTs, Greg Pruitt was gone, and the season was a debacle. The next several seasons saw a roster go through transitions (including favorite coach Sam Rutigliano being fired and replaced with Marty Shottenheimer) that finally led to a .500 record in 1985, coinciding with the drafting of a franchise QB (who I think learned so much from the veteran Gary Danielson). I can't help but think this season is the start of a similar period for the Browns. Of course, it's early and the season could turn out to be a success, and YES this roster seems to have more overall talent (at least on the defense - if not offense too) than the 1981 squad, but it feels eerily similar to me. Did the Browns play over their heads last season in spite of the QB situation? Did they get/make breaks that just aren't sustainable? If this season isn't turned around, there will definitely be tough questions that need to not only be asked but also answered.

obviously Watson would have had many more yards last game without the penalty on Harris, but you're right. We simply have no consistent offense with Watson. Whether that's his fault, the coaches, his surrounding players, etc. it is what it is

Agreed. That's what bugs me; we could easily be 3-1. Now we're on the verge of a lost season.

Bone right now I don't have too much faith in us turning the season around, not after what I've seen the first 4 games. However, if DW has a few good games in a row, not great just good, and we win them you never know. Getting back our starting O-Line and TE would help.

The Browns colassial swing and miss in the Watson
trade will end up setting the franchise back
Abit and it might be time for a total rebuild . This team has
Accomplished very little under Deposeda and Berry
Promise you there will never be another
Deshawn Watson like trade in the NFL ever again.
So when you start a new course you have to
Explore trading off some actual assets.
Like Myles Garrett. Because Berry like the genius
He is traded 3 years worth of potential building
Blocks to Houston . Garrett can bring you back
A 1st RD pick or a couple 2nds
The Browns need new blood on the oline
WR and QB. You can't win if you lack those elements

Are you ever going to stop posting in Haiku format?

I think it’s obvious that the working environment inside Berea ins’t fully optimal.
The key questions is of course why and how to change it?

Last season our defense had a DC who installed discipline and organization and that made us probably the best defensive unit in the league.
All it took was one competent leader who made us being on the same page and that they pulled in the same direction.

I’m almost sure there’s more unlocked potential inside this organization but without some elite coaches we will probably never know how far they could have gone if they had the right guidance inside a disciplined and healthy working environment.

I'm not sure what the answers are, but what we face is a very banged up OLine, a QB that is subpar and is having a crisis of confidence and virtually no options out there to repair either EXCEPT to start Winston and walk away from Watson