DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A New Course

There are only two people responsible as it pertains to the final decision on signing any FA contract and player. The GM who has the power to make that decision and the owner who signs the checks. That's how the hierarchy works. Sure a GM and owner get input from others but the final decision and responsibility for that decision rests with them.

Agreed. Without Tom Brady Bill Belichicks record would not be nearly as good nor would his legacy.

That doesn't change the fact that he has to agree to sign the checks and the only other person with the power to make the final decision to sign a FA is the GM. I'm not sure who else you were referring to when you posted.....................


He is in fact the only one that has the power to make that decision.

Fair enough.

How do we know this?

We agree on most things most of the time ... and I also agree with these points here. I think a HC looks better with the more talent he has to work with no matter how good or bad the HC is to start with. Where we disagree is how good this Browns roster is today, and whether Berry has made it better or worse. I don't see the roster being that good. We lack depth at many key areas where we have known injury concerns among the starters and we have chronically undervalued some positions or traded for individuals and drafted players who aren't good. We say it takes 3 years to grade a draft ... well Berry is into year 4 - the results are underwhelming to say the least. The very best thing you can say about Berry is that he appears to get along great with the rest of the FO and he manages the cap well. That's leaving a lot to be desired imo.

We also disagree a little on Jimmy carrying all the responsibility for rubber stamping and approving the DW trade and/or giving Berry a pass. I think All of the other three (KS, AB, Depo) all equally share the accountability for the DW trade along with JH. Between the HC being unhappy with what he had and being convinced DW was the answer (remember all the media stories about how DW and KS talked shop and KS was enamored with DW smarts and how he loved football so much) ... Berry and Depo deciding that despite all the other issues that were known (accusations and the year sitting out) - they are also at fault for deciding to promote and present DW as a viable FQB that could be the solution. Just how I see it - just because many people (4) had a hand in the process doesn't mean none of them have to be held accountable. And as of Oct 2024 it has been a giant F and will no doubt be mentioned as one of the worst trades in NFL history for some time. Certainly the Browns worst trade.

All anyone has to do is look at the hierarchy and who the final decision makers are to see who gets the responsibility for the DW signing. Not only the signing but the price tag paid. I've watched over many decades how the FO uses the HC, the scouting department and every other subordinate that they hired, they approved and brought into Cleveland as the scapegoat for their own shortcomings. Now I'm watching some of the fans doing the exact same thing.

We're basically paying our QB the way every team pays their QB. That's the going rate now. Actually, we're probably paying DW a little less than some. So far DW has been a disappointment and it may stay that way, but our FO and MR. Haslam took a shot to get our Browns onto the next level. Whether we agree with the trade or not we have to give them credit for trying to win a Super Bowl. If DW starts to play well and we begin to win there will be very little criticism of him on this board.

He was signed three years ago. Salaries go up every year. The only fair comparison to how he was paid is to compare it to how he was paid then, not now. And if you look at it, the precedent of his deal helped set the new standard for QB pay especially in regards to guaranteed money. Every team every year is trying to make the SB and win it. That's the ultimate goal of every NFL team. That isn't a special circumstance. By your example we should give every GM and owner credit "for trying to win a SB".

Not sure what you're saying.... Are you suggesting your opinion is Jimmy is 100% responsible?

The browns can put DW out there all they want. I’m done with this BS this year. I will n ever root for them again until DW is gone. Just done. We had a franchise QB and pissed him away, stupidly.

Exactly correct.

Houston sitting pretty at 4-1. They are doing quite well thanks to the draft picks Berry gave them. Berry seems to be great at making other teams better. It would be nice if he cared about making the Browns better.

We're stuck with Watson for 2 more years, then we go into another 3-5 year teardown/rebuild phase. The Watson trade set this team back a decade. Worst trade in the history of the NFL.

Yep, and not only that, but we gave them that draft capital for what? To take their giant mess and distraction and make it our own mess and distraction. No sense whatsoever. They should have given us draft picks to take DW off their hands.


Our rebuild will start once Myles Garrett, JOK, and the like request trades. I think that day is coming soon. Those guys are too good of football players to be a part of this crap. They deserve to be on teams with competent front offices and competent coaching. - Look at TJ Ward, Joe Haden, Baker, heck even Braylon Edwards had the chance to play in a few playoff games after he forced his way outta here.


At the least.


Easily. And easily the worst trade/transaction in the history of sports. Stupider than when the Red Sox sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees. In the Red Sox defense, they had no clue how good Babe was. Compare that to the Browns who knew everything about the trouble that was pending against Deshawn, coupled with the most glaring character issues in the history of sports. The absolute stupidest trade in the history of all of sports.

Goodell should demand, for our sake, that Jimmy sells this team.

I’m not rooting for total collapse but at this point I want it to become absolutely crystal freakin’ clear that DW needs to be flushed. I know he’s not nearly the entire problem with this team but he is helping precisely nothing. Because he’s not a leader of men, he’s not going to lead this team out of the wilderness. I would find it hard to respect him on any level if I was in that locker room and I suspect quite a few probably indeed feel that way. Every interview I watch I see a guy who is just not that guy. He’s tough, I don’t doubt he works hard. I just don’t think he has “it” and I doubt he ever will. And on top of it, he’s a turd of a person. There, I said it. Man it’s hard to root for, and I imagine, play with a turd.

As far who gets the blame for bringing him here? I sometimes encounter the thought whenever a really morally bereft action is taken or decision is made and it’s unclear who the decider was; look for the most desperately morally bereft decision maker. In this case, I deeply suspect Haslam. That of course is not a way of definitively figuring it out but it’s where I would start. The point being, I’m not sure I would be so quick to show AB the door. He’s hit on a lot of players and I think he’s very savvy if you put this absolute turd of a deal put to the side. KS is disappointing me tremendously but again, I’m not sure the DW playing decision is his to make. He’s definitely not making lemonade but he’s a 2x coach of the year and he’s the most legit one we’ve had in decades. I wouldn’t be too quick with that trigger. But DW…? Eat that sunk cost like the turd sandwich you ordered Haslam. This team is going to be next to unwatchable for next 3-4yrs.

There's zero chance that the Haslams signs an escrow worth 230m, giving away three years of first-round draft picks and connect the organization to a questionable character without have an endorsment from his GM and HC to finalize the deal.

A big nation wide well known organization like the Browns can't operate and do business on scale like this without some sorts of consensus at the top.
As soon as the deal is signed (by the owners) the main responsibility falls on Berry and Stefanski and they is the ones who has to deal with all the consequenses that afterwards follows.

I'm saying the decision rests with the GM and the owner. The GM has subordinates that he himself hired. They are not who makes any such decisions. That includes the coaching staff, the scouting department and the analytics department and those responsible for working the salary cap.

In the case of the analytics department they are responsible to gather statistics that give input. But the numbers are what they are and the analytics department reports them as such. The coaching staff is asked if they think the player they are looking into signing is someone the coaching staff can work with. So they give their input. The people responsible for working the salary cap are asked if a contract can be worked in to fit within the constraints of the salary cap.

But what one has to remember is it's the GM who hired and signed off on ALL of those people to begin with. Their input was based on the fact that the GM trusted them enough to hire them to their position and depend on them for such input. Nobody else. So the fact that these are the people he chose to be in charge of their positions on the team is his and his alone.

So he gathers all of that information. You may or may not have everyone on board in making such a decision. You may have some who say they can work it out but have some reservations about it. I'm sure you also had some that are completely on board with it. But none of us know how this all went down behind closed doors.

But what the GM has to do and is responsible for is taking all that information from the very people he alone hired to be responsible for that input and weigh everything out and make that decision. In the case of watson not only was what Cleveland claimed was their best offer turned down, watson stated Cleveland was not a team he would sign off on being traded to because he had the right to refuse to be traded to any teams he chose to via the nontrade clause in his Houston contract.

So not only did Berry decide to make him one helluva an offer in the first place, he went back to the drawing board and in turn made watson an offer he couldn't refuse. The coaching staff didn't do that. The analytics department didn't do that. The people running the salary cap didn't do that.

In turn the only check and balance to the GM is the owner. You can't sign a player to a contract the owner refuses to pay. So once again you have to remember that it was the owner who hired Berry. That's the man he chose to trust to run the team. That's the man he chose to make such decisions. And the owner is the man who agreed to sign the checks to make this deal possible.

My issue is people keep trying to pass this decision down the food chain to people that lacked the ability to make those decisions.

So we’re saying that Haslam, Berry, and Ski together couldn’t land a decent QB? I think Haslam wanted DW and Berry/Ski saw the shiny new object… nobody seems to have done their homework.

Exactly. Square peg in a round hole. It would have been totally different if they had got Watson from Houston without the 2 year lull in playing. Watson will never work here. He never wanted to be here and just does not fit. Flacco, literally coming off the couch, learned the offense in less time than Watson did and thrived with all but the exact same players, including receivers and o-line and no Chubb.

Overall, Flacco threw a much better and more catachable ball, leading receivers so they can get YAC, throwing them open and with much better anticipation. Cooper set the all time Browns receiving record with Flacco. Flacco and Baker had great play action form. Watson is in the shotgun 90% of the time.

Watson isn't even close to anything he was in Houston and will never be in Cleveland. He could be in other cities but not here.

I just saw a whole segment on ESPN where the panelists were discussing whether the Browns have the worst situation in all of professional sports. It wasn't tongue in cheek banter, it was an actual serious discussion that they dedicated a part of the show to. Unbelievable.

The answer from our coach is that nothing is going to be done other than try to play our way out of it. It's time to cut our losses and get Watson out of our system. We're out the money no matter what.

Update: And as I walk past the TV......I don't know what they were talking about, but they said "it's deader than the Brown's season". I'm not kidding.

well they aren't wrong, which is the truly sad thing. We have the worst situation in sports

Watson doesn’t want to be in Cleveland.

We don’t have to over analyzing it. He’s not even trying to do his best and I think he simply doesn’t care any longer about what people thinks.

Watson doesn't want to play football. He wants to sit on a beach and spend his $$$

So... Watson played ok 2 games ago and was clearly trying.... But with that Said:

I'd 100% move on from DW. HE'S been a disaster.

Looking at what a Shambles the roster is, Berry is gone too.

I see KS being inconsistent. Good when the chips are down and then classically underperformed when given the better talent and expected to do well. We've witnessed that twice. He also didn't bench Baker, apparently won't sit DW without the say so from JH.... Me? He'd also be gone but honestly I'd leave it up to the next GM. That probably means he keeps his job for a year and is jettisoned after we tank in 2025.

I can't comment on Depo. Really don't know how much power or influence he has... If his influence has been strong he needs to go to. If he really just supply the day for others to interpret he can stay.

Embrace the pain... Move on now.

Thinking of how KS over performs when back is against the wall. Get rid of him now. Don't want our draft pick to be lower than it needs to be because KS found a way to beat the odds and go 6-11 next year.

If I were a kid in college right now and coming out in next year’s draft I would be praying not to be picked by us. Why would anyone want to play here?

I hope the lawyers find a way to negate his contract with this hush-money settlement he suddenly decided to settle. But if not, cut his ass and be done with him.

We can't. His congract is fully guaranteed, and we have pushed money off into the future at least twice now to handle the cap. We are probably stuck with him here, at least physically, for the next 3 years.

He’s not generating first downs, or putting points on the scoreboard, and some of his throws are terrible. We have to yank him, as I’ve said for a couple weeks now. How much longer should his teammates put up with it?

This thread isn't that old, but I wanted to bump it because I wanted to talk about something.

So Watson didn't get benched, but he is now done for the season. As someone that's interested in learning more about the intricacies of football, I am SUPER interested to see what the ripple effect of swapping out Watson for Winston will be.

Side note: I was shocked/miffed that we had DTR come in instead of Winston, but I also had to listen to the game on the radio so I can't really comment on how he looked out there. I was forced to listen to the Bengals radio guys, who are absolutely brutal. Even my wife kept saying, "who is this guy, he's an idiot" (Lapham).


With Winston in, do we scrap all the Dorsey stuff we were trying to kludge together this year and go back to the Stefanski offense (power running and play-action)? Does this allow the Oline to magically remember how to run block? I'm being sarcastic on that last one, but I'm serious about how I am so excited to try to see how an offense can look different when you change a single variable.

well Winston couldn't come in once we deemed him the emergency QB (we did that BEFORE the game)

I for one am not entrusting any more drafts to Berry. Further, I am sick and tired of the Browns looking unprepared and soft on Sundays. I would fully endorse Vrabel being promoted to HC and keeping Schwartz as DC. Hire a GM and an OC and let's see what happens. I am done with this current regime. I sincerely hope the way Berea operates changes as more FOOTBALL people are hired and not yes men who worry about analytics. That is on Haslam. He needs to get this fixed and he is the only one who can do it. He should seek advice from EXPERIENCED FOOTBALL people when making the decisions on the FOOTBALL team. Once that happens, stay out of the way and let the FOOTBALL people run the FOOTBALL team. Just sign the checks and show up on game day. That's it. That's all you have to do Jimmy. Do it. And get it right this time because YOUR way has FAILED. Miserably.

Well for me a new course is replacing Berry, KS, DW doesn't come back in the building next year. I know Berry and KS signed new contracts but the $$$ hit for their contracts is next to nothing compared to what we are losing with DW. Do whatever is needed to try to make the biggest hit for Watson's contract next year. . . .

As someone said - acquire lots of draft capital. For this year and next. Trading players and trading our top 3 (probably #1) pick in the draft this coming draft. IF - giant if - there is a QB you covet and is worth a #1, draft him but I don't see it as of October 2024. Don't let post season work outs and combines affect that decision either.

Browns will suck this year. They will suck next year but we need to be like Houston and aim for a bright 2026.

Half measures - trying to make KS or Berry work out when they've proven over and over they can't cut it and they have obliterated a decent team that went to the playoffs with Baker. It might not work - because we've tried and failed so many times since 1999. But I think it's the ONLY way if you want a realistic chance to become something we haven't been for the last 25 years.

Yeah, I don't understand why we did that. I guess we're in full-on tank mode? Why did we go get Jameis if he isn't going to be the backup when Watson goes down?