DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2024 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 13 Commanders 34 Post Game Thoughts

This team is absolutely atrocious. Changes need made.

Why am I wasting my Sundays like this? That's my post game thought.

Fire Berry & Depodesta

Today.

Browns average 15 points a game. Laughable.

Its time to end this charade that this team is going anywhere.. Berry/Stefanski were given a playoff roster by Dorsey and have made it worse every year. We finally have a first round pick and I don't want Berry anywhere near this team next year. Stefasnki continues to prove he doesn't have the acumen or the ability to do two jobs. He sucks at both. You cannot assume players drafted will develop under Stefanski, none have. The only good players we have were brought in before they got here or were drafted by someone else and we signed via FA or trade, even those players seem to get worse coming here. So yes, while we aren't Hue jackson bad, we aren't much better and its time to blow it up and try again.. Washington was in the same boat.They went through 4 years of mediocre coaching and drafting, decided enough was enough and blew it up.. Now look at them

We have a lot of issues, and it starts with the qb. Watson is done, cooked, finished. It's obvious to all but the ignorant. Stick a fork in him. Get him out of there. If somebody's trying to save face because of what he costs, they need to go too. I quit watching before the half because I knew it wasn't getting any better.

The hardest part of this is to admitting own mistakes and being brave enough to move on to the next challenge.
Both Berry and Stefanski’s CV isn’t good enough to be part of a new rebuilding and that’s’ why they fear to do something.

Joe Flacco 33-44 359 yards 3 TD.

Watson is not a quality NFL QB

That is all you need to know.

It’s beginning to look like not just a bad season but a “people be gettin’ fired” kind of season. This was a people be gettin fired kinda game.

I truly believe there’s good to be taken from anything including horrific games and bad seasons. At least you see in stark black and white who is failing and who may be worth saving. But sometimes it’s SO bad it starts to look like a clean sweep is in order. I’m not willing to call that yet be weeeeeee’re getting there!

Lets tell the truth... there is change that is needed within the coaching of the team... The Stefanski/Dorsey playbook is basic.. Greg Olsen said as much ALL GAME. Watson, should be sat down. Berry should answer for his crap draft picks. Schwartz defense is not tackling well and other than Garrett, Ward, Delpit, JOK, who else does anything???

A few years ago, Houston was in the abyss. In comes the Browns, season ticket holders and all to save Houston from the abyss. The Browns, and their season ticket holders, are Houston’s heroes.
We took the most controversial, proverbial villain off Houston’s hands, and gave them three first round picks in return. “Oh Houston, we know that the nfl is image conscious and will never let this guy experience success let alone be the face of a franchise, but please, let us make your problem turn into our problem.” “Our season ticket holders won’t care. Those idiots will support the Browns regardless of the on field product.”

And it worked. The Browns strategy to save Houston and ruin the Browns has resulted in Houston being 4-1 with a franchise qb while the Browns have regressed to the expansion days.

Houston owes the Browns season ticket holders a debt of gratitude.

- The offensive line is bad.

- Watson is absolutely terrible. They will keep trotting his out there. We'll hear about the locker room splitting soon. They've already to have a players only meeting.

- Watson coupled with this OL is a formula for horrifically a bad offensive. The ineptitude is borderline comical.

- The Browns were 1-13 on 3rd down. Washington was 8-15.

- More dumb penalties that either killed drives or extended drives for WSH.

- Schwartz's defense is looking less and less impressive with each passing week.

- Forcing Dorsey's offense on this team is looking dumber and dumber. Firing the the offensive staff after a successful performance last year is classic Browns.

- Nice TD drop by Jeudy. What was the point in rushing to sign him to a contract extension?

- Stefanski and Berry may not make it to 2025.

- Coach Kev says, "we're a solutions based team." Ok buddy.

Cheers: Bojorquez.
Jeers: The entire Browns organization.

The Eagles are going to destroy this team next week.

Go Guardians!

Watson and Stefanski do not work together. Never have, never will. One has to go.

Sadly, due to monetary reasons, one is much easier to get rid of it - and it will be the wrong choice.

Which is exactly why I expect that to be the answer.

Oh sure, in the interim we might try Winston. He's.....not good, and that's not going to be any better.

Four most important positions for a football franchise:
Owner. Haslam = awful.
GM. Berry = below average.
HC. Stefanski = average to slightly above average.
QB. Watson = terrible.

That adds up to a losing franchise.

The offensive coordination is uncoordinated. Noone is on the same page. That is coaching. The "new" offense is a cluster. The defense???

While we are in that ballpark, let us have a frank accounting. After weekly losses, and Ski pointing out what needs fixed, and "it will be!", I think we were worse than at first game. What have we fixed? Tackling? Penalties? Playcalling? Tackling? Cushions? How about HEART? We seem to have about five players showing some mental toughness. But a bunch look like they surrendered. We need a leader. We are not hard-nosed enough and aren't competitive individually. Why some of this goes on week after week is a central issue. I do not see anything as better. Watson doesn't have game for us. Only part of it is his fault.

I honestly can't even believe how bad we are. Players are quitting too, which is the turning point for any coaching staff. I can't think of one positive thing besides Bojorquez

Out of Berry, Stefanksi, and Watson. Only one was considered top 5 at the position they currently hold before coming here. Yes Watson has struggled, and in a vacuum he looks like the problem. But objectively, you look at this offense as a whole, bad playcalling, no discipline, worst Oline ever assembled(tim couch never got sacked at this rate), wr who statistically are the worst in the NFL at getting separation and lead the league in drops.. No QB is going to be successful behind that. So we have a chicken/egg situation. The simplest solution, Bench Watson and let Winston play since the season is officially over. Watch the same things happen except watch the turnovers increase because noone does it better than Winston in that area. So what will that tell you..A guy who had a 103 rating over his career and led the league in passing yards all of a sudden forgot how to throw? Or do we have bigger issues contributing to it looking like that.. My vote is the latter. Seems to me KS has issues with all his QB's that spend enough time with him.

Switching gears to what I believe is the biggest issue on the team. Andrew Berry. The guy has no credentials to take over for a guy like Dorsey. He's been horrible with the cap, the contracts he gives out, and his drafting is worse than any point I can remember. I can't think of one player he's brought in that could be considered top 15 at his position, even top 20 would be pushing it. He refuses to admit he can't draft WR or even trade for them and have them be good unless they have already been to multiple probowls. Our LB corp is still the weakest unit on the team behind Oline. Zinter is the Guard version of Hudson. Emerson is a bust, Jok makes a couple flashy plays but gets destroyed 80% of the game. Our safeties suck. I mean He was handed a team that was stacked and just had to tweak a few areas to fix some gaps, but he's taken that team and made it worse every year. Letting stefanski call plays again this year should have not happened. He does not have the credentials or success to do that. But despite all that, he has proven to atleast be able to guide the team to wins despite all the dearth of talent and depth. I think KS the HC is serviceable. I think KS the OC needs to give up the duties.

I think you pair KS with a good GM that has a proven track record and allow him to rebuild the roster, KS can be successful. Problem is they are all tied together at this point and we have alot of players like chubb/garrett/bitonio who are at the end of their productive years. So theres more holes to fill. I don't see how any staff survives doing what we've done.

I agree. I'm as disgusted with this team now as I've ever been and that's saying something. First week of October and the seasons over. Inexplicable!!!

We’re a top QB and an OC away from winning like last year. Season is over without drastic changes and a QB switch or 5. At least Chubb will be back in a week or two, then maybe we can break 20 points in a game.

On the bright side, we looked so awful that I took off at halftime and got in a round of disc golf. I had a wonderful afternoon.

The Cleveland Browns: Blowing It All Up annually since 1999.

This offense is as bad as watching the 1999 offense, and I'm not mad or anything right now. Just depressed, because there's actually some talent on this team and it's being wasted by poor coaching, a bad qb and probably the worst scheme in the league. I just want to throw up watching Shotgun the entire game.

Stefanski may be calling the plays but this is definitely not his bread and butter. What a mess we are in.

The saddest part for me personally was all those disagreements we had about Watson on this forum and on other social media platforms.


I’m just disappointed. Tired. I had so much hope about the future when we first appointed Stefanski and Berry but intelligence and diplomas means nothing without common sense and integrity.

Why did we fire Van Pelt? Why did we hire Dorsey?

I know it was to cater to Watson but we had an offense that was working. I like Stefanski, I hate to see him go because of Watson and Dorsey. It really bums me out.

I'm very worn down too. It's not the end of the world, but it feels like we were climbing the mountain and got pushed all the way back down to the bottom ... with no hope in sight

Getting rid of Mayfield and keeping Stefanski was the biggest mistake the franchise has made. How anyone can defend Watson is ludicrous to me.
Might as well tank this year (if we weren't already). Draft a QB with our first pick, please!!

We have SO MANY needs beyond QB too, which is the depressing thing. OTs, aging OGs, CBs who have regressed, decimated front 7, WR who is checked out

Yep, we have a ton of issues aside from QB. Unfortunately the owner, GM, and coaching staffs are not found in the draft.

An electric QB can turn around a franchise pretty quickly, but we need smart personnel people to make the decisions on building the team. Currently we do not have those people.

As long as the current management/coaching is in place, we have ZERO chance of competing for a Super Bowl.

Not taking the preseason seriously got us off to a really bad start, and that is the coaching staff’s fault. The offensive line seems to be loaded with guys (except Bitonio) who just won’t play through injuries. The receivers are all terrible, except that the one guy proven to be good in the past has completely fallen off the cliff. The defense stopped working hard after looking good for a few games early last year. And the biggest problem is the QB. He is not even backup-level competent.
We should just give the keys to DTR and find out if we need to use our pick on a QB or if he can be the future. I doubt that he can. Stefanski is like one of those pitchers who wins 18 games one year, 6 the next, then 15, then 5. I don’t think you fire him, though. He’s not terrible, and teams that stick with coaches usually get better.

This is a real issue and why winning this year was paramount. Cooper will be gone next year and that WR room looks pitiful. OL needs completely overhauled. D-line is old and on a bunch of 1 year deals. Chubb may or may not be back next year. Emerson and Newsome were both supposed to step up and make it a difficult decision on which player to extend. Both look replaceable. JOK is the only LB and his play is inconsistent.

This team also has a lack of depth and very little young talent due to farting away draft picks.

The magic 8 ball says: Outlook - grim.

On an unrelated note, hope Charley Hughlett is ok.

good points milk ... and I saw hughlett down and hurt, which made me upset too

I went to work today and unfortunately dwelled on the game and feel really bummed out about our Browns. It's just so deflating. Our QB sucks, offensive line is weak, running backs are blah at best and defense isn't cuttin' it so much this year. There is more to complain about but that's it for me, I'm gonna take a shower and go to bed. I'm glad they let me out of work early (a rarity).

I zeroed in on our OL today more than usual. A few thoughts (and some of these we already know lol):

- Zinter is horrific .. literally no lateral movement
- Pocic is overpowered with any type of bull rush
- Wills is perhaps the laziest and most apathetic OL I've encountered

If I could have my pick of 2 things that I think could potentially turn this around. First would be Fire Berry/Depo.. they are killing this team by not drafting and then you go out and have to spend in FA or trades just to get depth when good teams do that through drafts and develop them into starters. They have handed out some horrific contracts and have us on the verge of no more road to kick that can down when it comes to the cap. The second thing I do, make stefanski give up playcalling. If he refuses, replace him as HC as well then Mike Vrabel is sitting there. He simply can't do both. Not saying its Dorsey, because I'm assuming alot of this offensive staff will be replaced next year. Good chance Callahan will be one and done in TN so I'm bring Bill back at all costs. But Ultimately thats what I would do. This roster has gotten older, thinner, and more expensive every year while going backwards in performance and not recognizing the gift he was given with flacco. A QB that can make this offense watchable and a guy a team can rally around. You job is to do whats best interest of the team, not care about feelings..You've made it clear thats how you operate with how you handle Baker and Cooper. So why not Watson. Bottom line this team needs an infusion of depth, youth and skill players. Berry has had plenty of time to bring any combination of those and has failed, and Depo with his analytics don't work. Steal someone from Bal/Pitt front office. They have it figured out.

well, I think the Watson trade/contract/playing time/Dorsey hire/etc ALL comes from Haslam. It's tough for me to lay blame on the GM or HC when I don't know how much they even wanted Watson (or want to keep playing him)

I am done watching the games on Sunday until further notice. I will catch up on the DVR. They are terrible and not going to get better.

Pretty much the same players and starters that we had last year when Flacco came in off the couch and learned a whole Offense scheme when he went 4-1. Watson is 1-4.

I did not watch the post game interviews but was there ever an explanation of this? This was just SAD.

https://www.totalprosports.com/nfl/...aQje0pM7UdiSA_aem_GFTUmI78CN5T8UzIzXGZmg

Which is what I see - and the reason I believe Berry needs to go. I disagree with people largely giving Berry a pass on DW ... I don't believe for a second Watson ever becomes an idea in Haslam's head if Berry doesn't sell DW to Jimmy as the messiah. Maybe GM can post a comment on that?

The game as pathetic - as pathetic as about any game since 1999. It's not even worth the effort to break it down.

KS clearly frustrated with DW - didn't see the presser but I expect there was more of the usual platitudes from KS.

The Watson thing is the biggest example of a sunk cost fallacy that i've ever seen.

We had 12 men on the field. Watson's already dug his own grave, no need for these twitter twits to make crap up.

We've all known KS as our head coach for 5 years now. We rarely (if ever?) have seen him visibly frustrated with a player on the field. His body language and facial expression said a lot there IMO.

KS garners a lot of the blame, but he also has exhibited the ability to get the most out of OTHER QB'S not named Watson.

j/c:

Poor QB play.
Terrible OL play.
No running game to speak of.
Undisciplined penalties.
Poor tackling.
More WR drops that cost the team points.
A team that has seemingly quit on each other by Week 5.

The above is a recipe for disaster for the remainder of the season.


I said the above this time last week after the loss, it still holds true, and perhaps has been exacerbated even more. This offensive scheme is a discombobulated mess with no identify. It seems like KS is calling plays for a scheme he isn't comfortable calling and we have an OC that isn't preparing that side of the ball each week. If our bye week was this week or next, I could see some people cut and or fired. Who knows, we still might get that if this team performs like they do.....looking at you Dorsey.

Simply a disaster.
__________________

Early Week 6 Line vs Eagles on DK.

PHI -8.5
Over/Under = 44


#MockDraftSeason

the lack of a run game is something that isn't talked about enough probably

The loss of Callahan, the injuries, the aging, the lack of effort, the lack of emphasis on it ... we are a very limited offensive team because of it

Basically, we go shotgun/spread and try to throw our way to wins (with a QB who can't read a defense and can't push the ball down the field)

::inspirational lightbulb::


We finally have a logo for the helmet!

Sisyphus rolling the bolder up the mountain.

Truth.
The money is gone no matter what.... unless we're contractually obligated to play him, they should have benched him. They should still bench him and put DTR or another backup out there because you cannot tell me with a straight face that Watson is the best QB on this roster and gives us the best chance to win. Refusing to bring in a quality starter simply because we were already paying Watson is stupid. Flacco, or any other mid-tier QB that can actually read a D and process what he sees, should be on this roster.

People keep saying this but its not true. Every veteran QB that has been brought in has been statistically the same for the most part they have in their career. Guys like Baker have gone on and improved, Watson is really the only one that has come in and been noticeably worse. Theres something thats not clicking and I refuse to blame Watson for all the issues we are seeing because unless youre obtuse or just hate Watson regardless, noone can look at this season and say its any 1 thing thats causing this. Watson has had his issues no doubt, but He's being sacked at a higher rate than Couch in 99. That can't all be on him. Penalties and dropped passes, it all adds to disrupt any kind of rhythm. We've seen watson get in a rhythm this year and have very good drives. So its lurking. I think not having a run game is probably one of the biggest issues.

After reading this entire thread I believe the best thing I can do in regards to post game thoughts is to not have any.

After 5 games-Passer Rating

1) Flacco
2) Burrow
3) Baker
4) Lamar
5) Jayden Daniels


28) Watson

I'm honestly surprised he's not worse than 28

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-sacks-allowed-nfl


https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/nfl/nfl-teams-with-most-dropped-passes-this-season-bm10/


but yes...its all Watson.. please continue

Sacks also have to do with how long you're holding the ball. And it is amazing how poorly a guy like Cooper catches the ball after years of having sure hands. I wonder if it has anything to do with having zero faith in the QB?

j/c:

Dawand Jones needs to be prescribed Ozempic.

Jones is amongst our biggest disappointments (literally)

Any progress he made last year has been lost

thats just passing the buck and refusing to admit the person at fault is actually at fault. If an NFL player getting paid 20 million dollars to catch a ball, if it hits his hand, he should catch it more often than not. Not sure what Faith in the QB has to do with it if the ball is there

My suggestion at this point: Fire Dorsey. Run Stefanski's offense. Either start Watson the rest of the year (to definitively show Haslam he is garbage) OR start DTR the rest of the year and see what we have. If DTR goes, inactivate Watson for the rest of the year and tell him to stay home. We can't get out of his contract. But we can try to get these guys to play for each other and see what happens. At this point, I really don't want Berry handling the draft. We are probably looking at a top 5 pick. No need to waste it. Again, JMO. It's going to be a LONG season and none of us really expected that. Very disappointing. Just glad I stopped paying for season tickets. Ouch.

....but it's not his fault.

I've resisted posting here because of how angry I got yesterday. Watson has to go. The only thing worse than a horrible decision is sticking with a horrible decision.

Actually it already is worse, because now we have a ton of holes around him due to all the draft capital we gave up for his sorry ass.

Blame AB all you want (I'm not claiming he's awesome or even above average) but no GM is going to hit on starters starting with 3rd rd draft picks every year.

That only works if the guy you traded for is so good, such an all-pro, he makes up for the holes you're going to create by himself.

Yeah....Deshaun is closer to PJ Walker than he is an all-pro.

Don't insult PJ Walker like that.

Just a question. With the way this franchise has been run since "99 it seems to me that if someone was purposely trying to sabotage the Browns, they would be making many of the same decisions, draft picks, signings and coaching moves that have been made. How can people who are trying to succeed be so inept?

YES! First the Manziel thing, the injured players, never calling out refs, and now the worst trade in NFL history. I can't shake the feeling that it's on purpose. Maybe it's just cuz we've been beaten down so much and it's a defense mechanism but man it would be hard to be this bad by accident.

Is there any way to petition to get a new owner? or do we need to record him saying the N word first for that a la Sterling?

GraffZ06.

You need to change your signature. BM is gone and far more “dangerous” than DW has been as a Brown.

Yeah, whatever happened to “led the NFL in passing yards” was left in Houston.

Watson will not be benched unless he is injured. Benching Watson would be an admission that Berry/Depo/Haslam made a $230,000,000, 3 1st round draft pick mistake. You absolutely do not make mistakes like that without someone being fired. Berry/Depo and Stefanski know this and are trying to save their own jobs.

j/c...

The Browns under Haslam are 75-140-1. That is a win percentage of .347. This is the same owner that demands his hired HC first consult with him before deciding on if he can or cannot bench the QB .

When the know-nothing owner does not trust, and more importantly, empower the HC to make final decisions on who plays on Sunday, you have already set the team up for failure.

The rumors coming out about the son-in-law and his influence on the organizational decisions are alarming as well.

Haslam thought he could take a shortcut and buy a championship in the NFL. You cannot.

All of those opinions/suggestions are more than plausible. I'd love to see or hear more validiation or verification of each claim.

On the issue of KS being able to bench Watson - that's this year. I do not believe any other year we've had a situation where KS has been limitied with his offense ... there was talk of Depo suggesting a more air focussed O was the statistically more likely to lead to success route -- but other than that it feels like Stefanski's record is his to own.

I agree. I don't think that Haslam was the person to hatch the Watson idea. That was Berry all the way. Haslam approved the move only at Berry's urging.

Yes indeed, grasshopper.

The only way to get over a bad decision is to own it, then move on from that decision. Trying to massage it in to something it isn't only makes things worse.

If all of this talk about Stefanski being forced to play Watson is true, then he is a limp noodle. He needs to coach on his terms. He needs to force whoever to accept his decision or fire him. Stefanski would have multiple offers to be a head coach on some other team.

He needs to run the offense he wants to run and play the players he wants to play. Be dammed what others want. If he already is, then that's on him.

We agree 100% last 2 posts!!

If haslam aays KS cannot bench Watson and he does anyway, what happens?

A, haslam lives with it
Or
B, he fires KS

Then KS can spill the unfiltered truth.
Pretty sure haslam doesn't want that

Call it what you like. No matter what you pay someone they're still human. Most athletes don't play to their full potential if they think they're going to lose. If you don't believe that then tell me why coaches say they're going to change QB's to try to give their team a spark. It's because they know unmotivated players don't perform well.

I agree, they won't.
But they should

I’d bet there is a confidentiality agreement that if KS gets fired, and then brings up this or that, he forgives what he is owed for the rest of the contract. You rarely see fired coaches bad-mouth their former owners, and I think it’s mostly for that reason.

And, if you want another opportunity as a HC you wouldn’t beak off about the guy who fired you. Not a good look.

I thought this since we found out who was in our QB room… Winston is not Joe Flacco and DTR, we know what he gives us unless he has grown and evolved. So all of our hopes were hung on DW and they made the bet he’d be the guy… He’s horrible and there is no plan 2.

There’s a lot of industries where even if everyone kinda knows who the turds are and can see the dumpster fires from a mile off, if you get canned you keep your mouth shut. Especially if you have any hope of working again. No one wants to hire someone who can’t respect the basic tenant of keeping it in house and exiting the right way. Kevin is super pro and disciplined when it comes to talking to the press, I don’t think he’d ever spill. But If they pull a woody Johnston on him, who knows. But even Saleh is saying precious little.

Good point

I agree. An example of the opposite would be Hue Jackson, lol.

given how much he's getting paid, I'd be keep my mouth shut too. That was a nice payout he got

You don't do that. It isn't a professional manner in which to conduct your affairs and if Stefanski hopes to coach in the NFL again, doing so would put an end to those ideas.

He would never spill to the press, but at any interview for a HC job they would absolutely ask him why he handled the Watson situation like he did.
The league will absolutely find out and haslam fears embarrassment.
It's more the threat than the actual action
Mutually assured destruction

I would bet the league/media already has a pretty good idea how the Watson acquisition went down. Just reading the tea leaves based on media tweets/support of KS

Agree.
If KS ever did that, he'd never get another job as a coach in this league. This is a very small community that you have to fight tooth-&-nail to break into and if you show those 32 owners that you will throw one of them under the bus publicly, they will all take it that you will throw any of them under, and you likely won't ever even get a position coach gig in the league again.

Haslam is a billionaire with a billionaire ego. Just like the rest of them (owners). You don't win that battle, no matter how right you are. All Haslam has to do is fire Kevin, call all his buddies and tell them to blackball Kevin. That's it. Jimmy wins.

Embarrassment is extremely overrated when you are in that bubble.

Even Brian Flores got another NFL job.
Not a HC, but a DC

I hear you Jester.

However, my point in both threads revolves around being a HC. Being a staff member as an assistant, OC/DC is a great gig. However, if HC is their dream or goal, they just were knocked down a peg or two and are starting over at being considered for a HC position. Like I said before, the chance may come soon, years, or never.