DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns off-season move that backfired !

You don't use baseball analytics in football. You use football analytics. Just sayin'. Every team in the NFL uses analytics. That's not a scheme. That doesn't make the Browns an outlier. Quite the opposite in fact. It's adding more information to the equation and process to help you have all of the pertinent information needed to make a better informed decision.

Now I believe there is a conversation to be had in how much weight and consideration is given to the analytics portion in the decision making process. I'm certain that each team uses analytics to a different degree. While I'm sure this is an oversimplification you could break it down to the percentage it carries in making decisions. 30%, 40%, more or less? There is also the way it is accumulated. The structure of how you come to your conclusion based on the numbers.

I don't disagree with you however that the way the Browns are using analytics certainly hasn't yielded positive results in many cases. But then do we know how dependent they are on analytics in their decision making process? I would tend to think it may be more than some of if not many teams. If you look at the SPARQ scores of drafted players that appear to be drafted ahead of their draft positions on the board, the Browns seem to always heavily favor players with high SPARQ scores more so than many players who have produced more on the field.

I too think that it's quite possible the Browns lean on the analytics too much. That the balance between using analytics combined with other factors may lean too heavily on the analytics side. But I don't know that to be true. I agree that the results are the only gauge you can judge the FO by.

But trying to portray analytics as the boogeyman here is silly. Every team in the NFL uses it. How it's being used and the weight it carries is a different discussion and one that's worth having however.

52-84 is the record... 39% during Depo's time.. thats all we need to know.

GM has more knowledge of the inner workings of the Browns than any other poster on this board. Depo is not the person responsible for making the decisions. Should I insult you by saying you're too dumb to know that?

Nah

Not keeping Joe Flacco

Not investing in the OL.

I would not be surprised if the first 2 choices next year are on the OL.

So you didn't notice that reply wasn't addressed to you? Take another look. It was directed to leadtheway.

The GM and Haslam make the final decisions. You seem to be confused about how the structure is set up.

Mac, what is your source for Depo making football decisions? GM is known to have sources inside Berea. Can you claim the same?

Mac, I truly believe Cooper checked out back in August when the trade rumors started.

I don't think he was happy in Cleveland.

Something wasn't right.

Cooper wanted out of Cleveland. He got what he wanted.

It was the right move.

I know for a FACT Depo has made zero moves. So if you want criticsm here it is. You have no clue what you talking about.

Cooper was not going to be resigned next year, so we got something for him instead of nothing. Was it a good move? Like all trades only time will tell.

That and the fact that Depo had little to do with our record

51-64 is the record ...... 44 % during Myles Garrett's time... that's all you need to know.

Just FYI: It's been widely reported that Callahan was asked for his opinion on Peterson v Dickerson...Callahan preferred Dickerson.

DeShone's play didn't just start to suck in September...guys like Cooper have seen DeShone's play since the early summer. Cooper knew this level of suck was coming...before the trade rumor first came out.

Cooper has been traded before,he didn't sulk his way out of dallas.
Cooper is a class act.Perhaps he is a man of high moral values.Having that sexual deviant parading around the lockerroom as the face of the franchise was more than he could stomach.Can't say that I blame him.

What name did I call you? The only poster in this thread to call anyone a name was leadtheway when he called GM dumb. Anything to say about that?


What evidence do you have other than your "thoughts and feelings" that it's Depo making any of these decisions? It's the GM's job to make those decisions and those decisions in terms of writing the checks are Haslam's.

You certainly have points about some of the decisions being made have been bad ones. But then that was something nobody was disputing. What you have done, and have been doing for a very long time now is laying the blame for those decisions at Depo's feet. If you would like to address what evidence you have that's the case I would certainly love to see it. So far it seems you think the man whose responsibility it is to make those decisions, Berry, has nothing to do with it and Depo is responsible for them. You've been doing that for years now with zero evidence to support your claim.

Besides steal your lunch money and bully you wink


His job is "Chief Strategy Officer" and officially that's "DePodesta is tasked with implementing systems and processes to strengthen the Browns organization."


This includes the entire organization. From setting up plans on running the entire organization from Hiring process of janitors, media people, sales staff, secretary's, scouts, and yes even GM's and Head Coaches. He was instrumental in setting up the process that lead to the Hiring of AB, and Ski. He is in charge of the Analytics Department. He is NOT in charge of Hiring the GM, hiring the Head Coach, saying who gets drafted, traded for, traded away, put on the practice squad, or any other thing you can make up in your own mind.

j/c problem with your argument: The browns suck at those things.. so whoever's job is to decipher that is not doing a good one. That guy is Depo and he is very bad at it. He may be good at it for baseball( he's meh), but he's failed miserably here. I also thing the bigger problem is the team as a whole is way to reliant on it. Sometimes you just need to put film on. You can't have a bunch of nerds build a football team. You need someone who can scout the old fashioned way and understand what works on a football field. If you are going to use analytics, make sure you are using it as a single data point, not the tie breaker, the tie breaker should always be what your eyes tell you watching someone play.

He doesn't run and isn't in charge of the scouting department either. Statistical data is what it is. Gathering it and reporting it isn't a subjective thing.

[quote]j/c problem with your argument: The browns suck at those things.. so whoever's job is to decipher that is not doing a good one. That guy is Depo and he is very bad at it. He may be good at it for baseball( he's meh), but he's failed miserably here. I also thing the bigger problem is the team as a whole is way to reliant on it. Sometimes you just need to put film on. You can't have a bunch of nerds build a football team. You need someone who can scout the old fashioned way and understand what works on a football field. If you are going to use analytics, make sure you are using it as a single data point, not the tie breaker, the tie breaker should always be what your eyes tell you watching someone play.[The browns suck at those things.. so whoever's job is to decipher that is not doing a good one. That guy is Depo and he is very bad at it. He may be good at it for baseball( he's meh), but he's failed miserably here. /quote]

PAUL DEPODESTA IS A BASEBALL GUY..!

...Not a football guy.

Jimmy was just so impressed with the fact that Depo was Harvard educated baseball guy that he lost sight of the #1 quality that links all outstanding greats such as Andy Reid, Vince Lombardi and Bill Belichick together...

The 3 guys I listed as examples are outstanding football evaluators who played the game of football, coached the game of football and they had/have the ability to lead a locker room of football players to perform at the highest levels AND WIN...performing at footballs highest level.

Depodesta is nothing more than an average guy with an above average education with a weak background in football, lacking football experience especially when it comes to judging football talent.

Bottom line...BASEBALL IS NOT FOOTBALL...

Depo is a numbers guy.

Hrm... I'm still on the fence as to whether baseball is football or not.

Which this reminds me of the song by Psychostick "This is not a Song, it's a Sandwich".... and, I think that title is easier to make sense of than half the discussions surrounding Depodesta, lol

If you haven't already, I would reccommend saving your answer GM. You know you are going to have to say the same thing this upcoming offseason and next season. It's absurd how many years repeating the same answer and counting.

I will keep repeating it over and over because it's true. Mac keeps making crap up and spouting it over and over and some folks start believing it.

GMAFB Buy a vowel, use a phone a friend, use a lifeline, if you really truly believe the Browns don't have and use scouts, and don't watch film, then your living in your own little fantasy world, and like I suggested to Mac last year. You need to start your posts with "Once upon a time" because they are nothing but fairy tales.

Browns Have Not Extended Paul DePodesta; Team Still Foresees Long-Term Relationship

August 4th, 2024 at 12:53pm CST by Rory Parks
link


Browns chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta was hired by the team in 2016 after a lengthy run in Major Leage Baseball front offices. Though his hire was an unconventional one, DePodesta has clearly gained the favor of Cleveland ownership.

In 2021, we learned that DePodesta was given a five-year extension the prior season, a deal that ran through the 2024 campaign. At the time, his contract term matched those of head coach Kevin Stefanski and general manager Andrew Berry, both of whom were hired in 2020.

Upon the announcement of the extension, owner Jimmy Haslam noted the logic of having his top power brokers on deals of the same length, saying, “it lines up with [Berry and Stefanski]. That makes all the sense, and we’re super excited about that. Paul’s going to be with us for a significant amount of time. Paul’s not the type, you don’t need to announce something on Paul’s behalf, but he’s going to be with us for a significant amount of time.”

The Browns have earned a playoff berth in two of the first four seasons of the Berry/Stefanski partnership, and despite the much-criticized acquisition and extension of quarterback Deshaun Watson, the club has a talented roster that has the makings of a championship contender. Berry and Stefanski were rewarded with new deals in June, though DePodesta — who also has a significant role in personnel matters and who recommended the current GM/HC pairing to Haslam — is still under contract for just one more year.

That does not mean, however, that the relationship will end at the conclusion of the 2024 season. Speaking at a recent training camp practice, Haslam said, “we’re working through the situation with Paul. It’s a little bit different because he lives in San Diego, but we’re comfortable Paul will remain with us in some very important fashion for the long term” (via Kelsey Russo of the team’s official website).

It therefore sounds like an extension for DePodesta is still in the cards, and it would not be surprising if his contract again matches the Stefanski and Berry deals in the near future.

Question to all of you.

In 2020 we started the season with a new GM and a new HC.
After years of bad results our roster at that time included multiple 1round picks like Njuko, Garrett, Ward and Mayfield to name the high profile players. On top of that we had a decent Oline, Nick fkng Chubb and a great WR in Jarvis Landry.

You could easy argue that the team were full of playmakers and talents.
Four seasons later and 6 games into 2024 season the organization has one of its worst crises ever. In that period we have produced 1 good and 1 decent season. Our only real success that will be shining in the history books is 1 play off win against the Steelers. That’s all.

1. With all this into consideration have we over or under achieved if factor all the talent we had to our disposal?

2. Have Andrew Berry improved our roster or made it worse if we factor salary cap, players we have drafted, traded or lost?

3. After over 4 seasons is it fair to say that Stefanski is a top 10, top 20 or top 30 HC?

I’m curious to know how you all view it because if we’re unlucky the next couple of seasons isn’t going to be a walk in the park with all those problems that we have in front of us.

4. Is these the guys that can take us back or is it anyone of you who has other views?

(Sorry for my bad English)

I think when asking your questions you have to decide whether it's the talent berry is giving Stefanksi or whether it's Stefanski wasting the talent Berry is giving him.

Three years in a row we have had no first round pick. watson looks broken and confused. Stafanski helped lead this tram to the playoffs with being forced to use four different starting QB's just last season.

I think, and have said before, its a combination. I don't think players get developed under stefanski but I don't think he's been given much to work with. I always ask.. who is Berry's defining pick. The guy that is consistently elite and other teams have to plan for him.. I don't see a single player in that time. Add in giving up that amount of draft capital for a QB with a ton of personal baggage and unknown wasn't a good move. Bottom line there is Baker was coming off a down year by playing hurt, they should have given him a chance to come back. Not to mention it was Stefanski/Berry that screwed that whole thing up.. They should have never let him play injured as they did. I think thats where the relationship broke down, Baker was trying to be a good teammate and play injured and then got blamed for all the issues. Fast forward to last year. You had a crazy year where you had every excuse to lose but the defense played out of their minds and finally brought Flacco in and he came in on fire. You finally had a QB that had proved he could run KS offense better than anyone we have had and he wanted to be here and not only did we not even lowball him, but we didn't even reach out and offer anything.. Add in cleaning house on the offensive coaches side of the ball, there was no reason to. If there was a year where you just dust off and run it back, it was last year. Berry did not do anything in the best interest of the team but instead protected an investment that wasn't paying off for the sake of not wanting to stir things up. I've said that I do not put all the blame on watson for this season, and I still don't, theres too many things broken. But thats not saying I think it was a trade that should have been made. I don't think we are a better team now than what we would have been with Baker and all the picks.. This FO is a failure and needs to be replaced. I have much more confidence in KS to be good at his job then anyone in the FO

After 4 years there’s no excuses that they can use. All teams deal with injuries, bad and good luck, more or less talented players. They together or at least one of them decided to move on from Baker, trade to Watson and give up draft picks. It’s their choice.

If I have to chose I prefer Stefanski over Berry but that doesn’t mean I think he’s the answer to all questions. Both of them lack leadership, authority and charisma. A franchise like the Browns need a leader that knows how to rally everyone in the same direction.

Is Kevin really that leader in your opinion?

Like I said in the quote:

GM said:

I am not his evaluator for his above roles. One thing that you will love though, "He is in charge of the Analytics Department". If I remember correctly for the third year in a row, the Browns were voted (from their peers) the #1 in analytics out of all the teams.

Is he really a baseball guy? Last I checked he has been working in football for 8+ years now.

Apologies, I looked up Chief Strategy Officer win/loss records, I couldn't find any.

After all is said and done I think we have arrived at the same conclusion.

For one I see no reason why Stefnanski would have made the call to replace his entire offensive coaching staff. He just made the playoffs having to use 4 different starting QB's and won coach of the year. Now why would a coach who just accomplished that with his current offensive staff fire them all and replace them? To me logic dictates that wasn't his call to make. The people worried about having egg on their faces it terms of watson were the FO and owner. The people who felt desperate to make watson perform better was the FO and owner. Stefanski was doing quite well with the offensive staff he had.

I'd bet on the fact it also wasn't Stefnaski's call not to offer Flacco a contract to stay. I mean why would he? Only those trying to protect watson's fragile ego and a split among the fan base over a QB controversy had a motive to do that.

I'm not sure if we agree on all of the details that led this team to where they are now but in the end we agree that the fault lies with the FO and owner.