DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Question for professed Christians

Genocide is biblical.
Loving your enemy is biblical.
But only one is Christlike.
Slavery is biblical.
Chainbreaking is biblical.
But only one is Christlike.
Patriarchy is biblical.
Counter-cultural elevation of women is biblical.
But only one is Christlike.
Retributive violence is biblical.
Grace-filled restoration is biblical.
But only one is Christlike.
Segregation is biblical.
Unity is biblical.
But only one is Christlike.
Christ transforms, not the Bible. Be wary of those who know one but not the other.
-Jordan Harrell


A whole lot of this.

So first you ask about the word of Jesus. That's the New Testament. Now you fall back on the Old Testament. This was before Jesus was born. So since the Old Testament means so much to you do you follow the Ten commandments? Do you keep the seventh day as your Sabbath?

And Genesis speaks of when man was created. Are you saying that Adam and Eve didn't realize that a day could be measured from sunset to sunset? That when the sun was in the middle of the sky they had no idea it was the middle of the day?

Now you're going to make up some BS about nobody having the concept of time before anyone was created to have such a concept to begin with?

If you don't observe the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week like the commandments tell you to..... If you keep mans holidays instead of God's Holy days...... If you eat pork...... Don't preach to me about the Old Testament. Or are you one of those who picks and chooses what parts of the Old Testament that matters to you?

Not my style but I like his voice.

So you and Jordan Think that Christians are still under the Old Covenant? 🤔

Who said you had to reply to me to have a parting shot? You don’t think outside the box, do you?

No ver....stiffarm.

It was you yourself who indicated that Jesus said it was a sin, not me. Stop deflecting.


The very definition of deflection.


Well of course you did. This is one issue, not two.



So what would people not believe in people having the freedom to choose be then? You gave the option to inflict biblical teachings on society or not. Do you even bother to read what you're posting?


yet here we are 8 pages in with you responding to everyone.


Not when someone makes so clearly obvious.




Only in our public schools and buildings. You strike me as someone who would inflict Christianity on the whole of society.

[quote=PitDAWG]

🤣

Are you seriously going to post this? Don’t you remember that the conversation shifted to Genesis one since you guys changed the subject 50 times? You must be confused. We have completely abandoned the OP, (not because of me) and now it’s just a bunch of atheists and Others trying to debunk the Bible with you leading the charge. I am not using the old Testament to support the OP. I am using Genesis one to support an argument that happened to come up because no one ever replied to the OP except Ytown. You’re not tracking the conversation very well and it’s not your fault. It’s because No one is replying to the OP

And no, Christians are not under the Old Covenant. But you still have the writings of Paul.

PS. Do you think Jesus believed the moral Law of the Torah would be invalidated in the New Covenant.

So it's everyone who posts on Dawgtalkers but you? I don't doubt you believe that sadly. At least when I get into it on here it's usually only one side that comes after me and not both. Which side that is depends on the position I take on any specific topic. But hey, if getting over 90% of the vote was your objective, you won by a landslide!

So do you follow the Old Testament or not? Try not to deflect this time and try answering the question for a change.

I like that a lot. Thanks. Seems very appropriate at the moment.

This question is based on the fact that that you do not understand the purpose or scope of the old Testament. I would have to explain to you the entire purpose and scope of the old Testament to answer this question. And the way you misread my posts, it won’t go anywhere anyways

I’ll probably just post a video instead. Stand by

Too bad the arguments are based on a failure to understand the purpose and scope of the old covenant

So you refuse to answer the question directly. Color me shocked. Just save the video and answer the question.

So let me get this straight ....

Earlier you claimed the bible does not contain anything that can be interpreted in different ways. You claimed/inferred that the Bible's word and meaning is precisely understood by yourself.

But in answer to "Do you follow the Old Testament or not" - suddenly there is a vagueness and evasion that means you are lost for words and instead post a video?

Or am I not following along? It would seem to be a yes or no answer. Sure you might want to expand on your answer to say 'yes and ....' or 'no, but ...' --- Just seems beyond odd that everything was black and white in your eyes, until now.

What is wrong with your reading? When did I say I wouldn’t answer the question? I said I would post a video. What’s wrong with you man? But I am going to get the Written reply in my next post because it will answer 90% of atheist arguments

Bro I’m flattered but you still have me quoted incorrectly in your sig. When you going to fix that?

Terrifying Halloween viewing. So many freaks amongst us.

And if you don’t believe this crap you’re not a Christian and you’re going to hell. lol what a bunch of moroons.

Because this is the word salad you gave in reply............


The question was quite simple. You either believe in the teachings and laws of the Old Testament or you don't. You either follow what you called "The word of God" or you don't.

This entire "purpose and scope" BS is just that, BS.

The vast majority of Christians believe the Old Testament was for the Jews and the New Testament of Jesus was the message and books for Christians. But then even the Jews don't use the Bible so there's that.

The following post will demonstrate why his question needs some foundation before it could be answered. It’s obvious from the question that that foundation has not been laid For me to answer the question would be for me to try Teach someone to read before I taught them the alphabet

The Bible is not vague or ambiguous in anyway. The problem is people don’t read it with understanding because they either come to it with their mind already made up or they failed to use the basic rules of reading, which is happening here in this thread by the way. I mean, I said I would answer the question by posting a video and you guys ignored that so it seems that people read carelessly and misinterpreting things and that’s what they do with the Bible. There’s nothing big or ambiguous about the Bible you just need Use basic reading skills like context. If you just pull over from here or there, of course you’re gonna get it wrong.

Now here’s my Answer to the question.

The way that God has dealt with mankind through history has been through a series of covenants. A covenant can be conditional or unconditional. That is it might be conditional, which would mean a set of promises with conditions promises of reward for meeting these conditions and threats of punishment for disobeying the conditions. Unconditional covenant would mean a covenant that is unconditional there are no strings attached it’s gonna happen even if you don’t obey the stipulations of the covenant. There are various covenants the covenant with Noah, which is unconditional the covenant with Abraham which is unconditional the old covenant or the mosaic law which is conditional , the covenant with David which is unconditional the land covenant which is unconditional, but contains disciplines of losing a lot of the land for a season if disobeyed, the new covenant

The two main covenants are the old covenant and the new covenant. They are also called the old Testament and the new Testament the first 39 books of the Bible compose the old Testament. The last 27 are the New Covenant. The old covenant is temporary and preparatory, the new covenant is eternal. The old covenant is conditional. The new covenant is unconditional. The old covenant is temporary and preparatory, the new covenant is eternal. The old covenant is conditional. The new covenant is unconditional. The old covenant is based on what man does the old covenant says the Man, who does these things will live. The new covenant says requires faith. The old covenant was given to Israel. The new covenant was given to the world.

Any questions so far?

The following post will demonstrate why his question needs some foundation before it could be answered. It’s obvious from the question that that foundation has not been laid For me to answer the question would be for me to try Teach someone to read before I taught them the alphabet

The Bible is not vague or ambiguous in anyway. The problem is people don’t read it with understanding because they either come to it with their mind already made up or they failed to use the basic rules of reading, which is happening here in this thread by the way. I mean, I said I would answer the question by posting a video and you guys ignored that so it seems that people read carelessly and misinterpreting things and that’s what they do with the Bible. There’s nothing vague or ambiguous about the Bible you just need Use basic rules of like context. If you just pull verses out from here or there, of course you’re gonna get it wrong.

Now here’s my Answer to the question.

The way that God has dealt with mankind through history has been through a series of covenants. A covenant can be conditional or unconditional. That is it might be conditional, which would mean a set of promises with conditions promises of reward for meeting these conditions and threats of punishment for disobeying the conditions. Unconditional covenant would mean a covenant that is unconditional there are no strings attached it’s gonna happen even if you don’t obey the stipulations of the covenant. There are various covenants, the covenant with Noah, which is unconditional, the covenant with Abraham which is unconditional, the old covenant or the mosaic law which is conditional , the covenant with David which is unconditional, the land covenant which is unconditional, but contains disciplines of losing a lot of the land for a season if disobeyed, and the new covenant

The two main covenants are the old covenant and the new covenant. They are also called the old Testament and the new Testament the first 39 books of the Bible compose the old Testament. The last 27 are the New Covenant.

The microphone did not record the rest of what I said so I will continue in the next post

The question was quite simple. You either believe in the teachings and laws of the Old Testament or you don't. You either follow what you called "The word of God" or you don't. So which is it? It's a very simple question that doesn't need 8 tons of word salad to answer.

The microphone did not pick up the rest of what I said so I will continue here. Also, please pardon the grammatical errors that are unavoidable part of using the microphone, unless you spend a lot of time editing which is I My post so much

Please see the earlier thread for the beginning of this discussion on covenants

Two main covenants that God used in dealing with mankind through history are the old covenant and the new covenant. For definition of covenant see earlier post. The old covenant is also called the old Testament, the new covenant is also Called the new Testament There are many distinctions between the old and new covenant.

There are many differences between the old and new covenants. The old covenant was given to Israel. The new covenant was given to Israel, but overflows to the nations The old covenant was conditional, (For definition of conditional see earlier post). The New covenant is conditional. The old covenant is temporary and Preparatory, (More on that later). The new covenant is everlasting

So the first thing we need to know is that the Old Covenant was temporary and report and preparatory. It was replaced by the new covenant when Jesus came God promised through the prophet Jeremiah that he would make a new covenant with the nation of Israel and he promised through Isaiah that the nations would also be benefactors of that covenant, And said that he would create a kingdom that would fill the world and last forever, This promised was given through Daniel.

So the first thing to realise is that the new covenant is temporary and preparatory. Preparatory for what? For the coming of the Messiah. The old covenant, Also called the The old Testament, the law, and the Torah Was given to govern and preserve the nation of Israel until Messiah came. This is well documented by Paul in the book of Galatians if anyone cares to go there and read it

So once the Messiah came, The old covenant had already fulfilled its purpose That is why Jesus said I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfil it. Paul said, the end of the law is Christ. The word end does not mean destruction or abrogation. The Greek word means purpose. The purpose of the law or the covenant was to bring meant to Christ. Paul said that the law was schoolmaster Or tutor or governor or whatever term you want to use to watch over the people until Christ came. If anyone wants further Versus that support this, I can post plenty of verses

You can’t tell me that you can separate the teachings of Christ from the teachings of the Bible. The Bible, old and the new Testament is the word of God.

Now the old covenant of which we speak had many different aspects. There was the moral law, The ceremonial law, the civil law, the dietary laws, sub laws of separation (Which include dietary laws), Et cetera. The moral law Is eternal, and has always been since man existed, Because it Is based on the very nature of God, but before it was put into writing, it was known by man through conscience, Although man’s conscience was damaged by the fall, He knew enough of God’s moral law to either seek more light or reject the light that he had already received to his own destruction

So the moral law Was and is and always will Binding in this world. That is why nine of the 10 Commandments are repeated in the New Testament. It’s like you sign a new contract replacing an old contract and some of the stipulations carryover and others do not

The rest of the aspects of the law were fulfilled in Christ. The ceremonial laws were fulfilled in the cross. All the sacrifices of the old Testament were shadows and portraits of the sacrifice of Christ. The law of separation were no longer needed because the Messiah had come and there was no more need of separation between Israel and the other nations. Once the Messiah came, there was no difference between you and gentile male or female slave or free. Not in Christ There are ineQualities in the world, but in Christ, all are equal

No slavery, Conquest of nations, Capital Punishments for Various sins, Were part of the old covenant civil law, And were only given to Israel. Slavery was not commanded and was no Nor did God Invent it. God allowed it because there was no net in place to prevent the poor from starvation a good example of the issue of slavery was in the old Testament story of Joseph in the Old Testament.

There were certain things that God allowed under the old covenant, But we’re not part of his permanent plan, And were not according to his holy nature, Were allowed due to the hardness of man’s heart. For example, God allowed divorce under the law of Moses. Yet Malachi tells us that God hates divorce. And the Jews asked him why did God allow divorce if God hates divorce? Jesus said because of the hardness of God permitted this, but from the beginning it was not so.

We see there were some things in the Old Testament That were permitted due to the hardness of man’s heart, But were not consistent With the holiness of God. Nor were they consistent with his eternal purpose

Any questions.

Read the post above and below your last post, then I will be able to answer your question once you understand what I typed.

Let me know when you’re finished reading them.

I don't need to read anything and you don't have to post hundreds of words of word salad to answer a simple question..... The question was quite simple. You either believe in the teachings and laws of the Old Testament or you don't. You either follow what you called "The word of God" or you don't. So which is it? It's a very simple question that doesn't need 8 tons of word salad to answer. You called it the word of God. Now answer the question.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

How am I going to answer the question if you don’t read what I write. For your information? I’ve already began to answer your question but now you don’t wanna read it so I don’t know what to tell you. Do you want me to fly over there where you are and talk to you or are you gonna read my posts which are part of my answer to your question.

Everything I typed was in the Bible, so you’re calling the Bible word salad.

I don’t think this will go anywhere because you don’t even read the first paragraph of a quote.

No, you are not answering the question. You are posting paragraph after paragraph of a non answer. This won't go anywhere because you refuse to answer a very simple question directly. And I knew you wouldn't to begin with. Because that's just who you are. You prove the old W.C. fields line to be accurate... ”If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS.” Well done sir, well done.

Since reading a few paragraphs is too much work for you, I will simplify this by asking a question of clarification.

Which part of the Torah are you referring to? Are you asking me if I keep the civil laws of Israel that are included in the Torah? Are you asking me if I keep the sacrificial laws of sacrificing goats and cows and sheep when They were mere types and shadows of Jesus death on the cross? Are you asking me if I keep the parts of the Torah that were laws of separation that separated the nation of Israel from the nations, when there is no longer any separation between Jew and the nations? or are you asking me if I keep the moral law Which is repeated in the new Testament?

Do you think that the civil laws of Israel applyto the church? Do you think we need to still offer sacrifices of goats and lambs and bulls when Christ offered Himself and they were shadows of that? Please clarify, sir

I’ll have to take you very slowly through this, I see.

Welcome to the another never ending thread… Stiffarm and Pit are cut from the same cloth. And neither will give up the last word nor concede when they’ve lost. Don’t fall into the Pit trap there Stiffarm, or you will be followed from thread to thread and face opposition on every post… even when you’re just saying hi.

You stated that the Old Testament is the word of God. Not the Torah. In case it escapes you that's not the same book.

You stated in your own words that the Old Testament is "The word of God". Then you used Old Testament scripture to back up your claim about time. Which made no sense anyway. So I'm asking you if you believe and follow the "word of God" as you described it in the Old Testament teachings? Not the Torah or any other bait and switch game you try to play here.

I've asked you this same question over and over again. And your response is rather than to answer it you refuse to and post a list of questions to me in response? You may have a future in politics. You really aren't very good at this are you?

Thanks for you wonderful addition to the topic! As per usual we can count on you to add your usual dose of stupidity to the discussion.

The Torah is part of the Old Testament, Pit. So which part of the old Testament are you asking me if I follow? You asking me if I follow the ceremonial laws of sacrifices of bulls and goats and lambs when those are pictures of Christ? Are you asking me if I follow the civil laws of Israel that only applied to Israel? Are you asking me if I keep the laws of separation that were intended to keep Israel separate from the pagans until the Messiah came? Are you asking me if I’m keeping the moral law or all of the above?

PS. Hey I liked one of your posts. Amazing!

Thanks Larry.

Okay, I guess we laid as much of a foundation as we can so now I will give the answer to the question. I strive to keep the moral Law, though like anyone else I’m imperfect and do not keep it perfectly, which is why I need The saviour Jesus who gives me grace every day

As far as the rest the ceremonial law of the dietary law, the separation laws et cetera I am not commanded to keep them and it is not possible for me to keep them. It is not necessary because Paul said those were given to the The chosen ones until the seed should come who is Christ and then once the seed comes there is no more need for laws of separation or sacrifices as Jesus said “I came not to destroy the law, but to fulfil it.

And fulfill it He did. He lived a perfect life and in our place he died a guiltless death so that we could be declared righteous before God. he removed the wall separation between Jews anc non-Jews.He fulfilled All the sacrificial laws through His death, He took away the division and separation between Jew And gentle nations.

But the moral Law is eternal. It existed before the OT and it is repeated in the New. 😀

Still a non answer I see. Just as expected. So you refuse to answer a question I've asked you several times by responding with questions addressed to me. You are more than welcome to explain what you do and don't follow of the Old testament in your answer to my question if you wish. Or if you reject it all together if you wish. Stop deflecting.

#snowflake

Thanks Larry.

Edited because microphone made first post unreadable.


Okay, I guess we laid as much of a foundation as we can so now I will give the answer to the question. I strive to keep the moral Law, though like anyone else I’m imperfect and do not keep it perfectly, which is why I need The saviour Jesus who gives me grace every day

As far as the rest the ceremonial law of the dietary law, the separation laws et cetera I am not commanded to keep them and it is not possible for me to keep them. It is not necessary because Paul said those were given to the The chosen ones until the seed should come who is Christ and then once the seed comes there is no more need for laws of separation or sacrifices as Jesus said “I came not to destroy the law, but to fulfil it.

And fulfill it He did. He lived a perfect life and in our place he died a guiltless death so that we could be declared righteous before God. he removed the wall separation between Jews anc non-Jews.He fulfilled All the sacrificial laws through His death, He took away the division and separation between Jew And gentle nations.

But the moral Law is eternal. It existed before the OT and it is repeated in the New. 😀