DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A New Course

So you advocate that since this FO doesn't get QB's that fit the Stefanski O they should fire Stefanksi. Brilliant! But that's probably the way it will work out.

I think Watson is the fly in the ointment. When the owner spends a quarter billion dollars to get what he wants, employees try to make that work. Berry and KS toed the company line publicly, but I think everyone behind the scene knows what went down.

I agree with moving on, but not the from what. Unfortunately, the owner isn't selling his money printing license. We need to figure out how to move on from Watson. I don't know a GM better at wrangling the money/salary cap than Berry. Honestly it might be a pay Watson to stay at home situation like it was in Houston. I think Deshaun's the one we have to move on from.

Not just his play, but his apparent effect on the rest of the team. Apparently his crisis of confidence is contagious.

Winston might randomly be the cure. Confidence is not his issue.

I think you are putting the cart before the horse. Yeah, this season is pretty much going as unexpected, but they can still pull a Pittsburgh and finish above .500. Heck even backdoor into the playoffs.

Let's see how the next five games play out.

The season is not even half over and we are already talking about a new GM, new coaches, and who the Browns are taking with the first pick in the draft. Move over Jets!!!

Berry is a horrible GM from the talent evaluation standpoint.. If you think he's the only one responsible for cap management, I have some ocean front property in Tuscon. The "cap management" has consisted of kicking the can down the road on mediocre players. At some point we have to draft and retain our own talent instead of relying on FA. I think is also not as much of a slam dunk as you do about KS and Berry being fired. If we don't win a good chunk of our games, you almost have to do something.. extensions don't mean anything with FO and coaching. They are never guaranteed. Jimmy is trying to build some excitement for the new complex, having a 3-14 team doesn't do that. We will see. It could be one or both. But I think if this season doesn't get on track soon, there will be changes. How much will depend on who actually had a part in watson playing this year despite some bad performances and the season slipping away. Even if they didn't think Watson was the sole reason, they should have done something to spark the team. They didn't. So thats going to come into play as well.

I try

AB is not some unique cap savant...what he does can work ONLY when your owner throws around millions like they are nickels. There are many GMs that can play his/this game if only they had the right owner.

I'll add that while AB & KS DID get extended this off-season...that's before we saw what a true trainwreck was/is DeShone and that god-awful trade. How many GMs survive giving away a FQB to chase down a beleived-to-be FQB who clearly is not?

I don't want to fire anyone...and at the same time I do not trust this FO+ to draft a QB...which is one of the most important jobs for the group. Classic Browns.

Excellent post
Berry in 3years we will pay 50 million for Conklin
And dushbag.
Now everyone step up and defend that.

I will

2016 he played 16 games
2017 16 games played
2018 9 games played
2019 16 games played

25 year old RT when we signed him who was a all pro in 2016 and all pro in 2020 with the Browns.

Selected to 2020 PFWA All-NFL team.
2022 Browns Ed Block Courage Award winner


Your barking up the wrong tree if your blaming Barry for signing Conklin instead of applauding him.

So yes to 50 million in 2027for a 2016 all pro.
Personally do not think you found the tree.

Berry is good at managing the cap...... so far. How that will all shake out over the next few seasons remains to be see.

Maybe they should put him in charge of that and find an actual GM to run the rest of the football duties. It takes more than an accountant to run a football team.

Maybe you should have used your crystal balls to tell the FO that one of the top RT's in the league was suddenly going to become injury prone. Since you seem to think seeing into the future would have been so easy to do in regards of Conklin.

Conklin is only the 13th highest paid RT in average salary.
12 or 13 RT Have higher total Guaranteed salaries.
19 RT have Higher fully Guaranteed saleries



https://overthecap.com/position/right-tackle

BTW Conklin in not even under contract for 2027.


Your standing at the bottom of the ocean barking at a tree bro.

Conklin's not "under contract", but he does have money pushed out to then via void years.

But, let's see how he plays the rest of the year before we worry too much about the contract. (Directing at the topic rather than you, GM.) It sucks that he got injured, but he played pretty well when healthy. Hopefully, he can be an asset again if we go more run/play action heavy with Winston.

Honestly, thinking about the OL and what they do best gets me frustrated thinking about how Watson didn't/doesn't really fit that.

It's hard for a coach to try to get a QB with a quarter billion dollars guaranteed to get out of his comfort zone. It doesn't really seem like Watson was willing to try to adapt his game. He worked at what he did, but the contract kind of lends itself to him having the power in the coach-player relationship.

Bleh, I hate the money side of football.

That contract is an albatross in all sorts of ways, and it has Haslam's fingerprints all over it. At least he certainly seems the throw money at problems (without really understanding the problems) type.

I hope, with time, Berry and KS can kind of flip the apparent dynamic and influence him more than he influences them.

We have a two time pro bowl RT who did not have a injury history when we signed him who we are paying just above the average salary for a starting RT . That in no way shape or form does that require or deserve criticism of AB.

Now if you want to bash him for drafting Wills well then I'm all in in that

According to over the cap he is in his void year like dushbag.

If Berry was the driving factor on Watson, he should probably lose his job.

Even if it was something nobody could see, it was a big enough swing and miss that probably isn't survivable.

Berry should be fired, absolutely.

Thise of us that lived in Houston when Watson played there knew he was not the same player when the Browns traded for him. He was out of football for two years and he used to take so many sacks in Houston. He obviously had good statistical years in Houston, but he was never one of the best QB's in the NFL, in my humble opinion. I could see the Browns trading for him, but for what they (Browns front office) paid, they should be sent to the nut house.

Jimmy sent the plane to Houston and he’s the owner, he wears a big part of it. I don’t think our FO should be fired because of this season. It hasn’t been good, but at least now we know we have to draft a QB.

I doubt anyone’s getting fired.

Nice

I agree but with the exception of Dorsey. There was a reason Buffalo cut him loose mid-season....

Actually glad the JW bubble popped earlier than later. I was a tad worried the browns and their fans might get strung along and lapse into the old familiar wishful thinking. He’s still going to win some more games, that’s the deal with him. He looks all Pro one week, and a sorry excuse for a backup the next. He was among the most maddeningly inconsistent players in Bucs history, which is saying something.

Of course, we’d be better off losing out for rhe picks but that would threaten to incinerate the whole team, top to bottom. I don’t want that. We’ll see how it goes but we’ve seen all there is to see at this point. I hope they trade out of players and get some picks over the next few days. The future lies in the draft. What a freakin bummer.

I feel like this team is always tempting the fates, trying to find shortcuts, catch lightening in a bottle, reaching for forbidden fruit, dancing with the devil and just hoping not to get burned… insert cliche of choice. I will never understand how they went into the DW pursuit not knowing that when all objective indications are a person you’re pursuing is a 100% verified turd of turds, you just dont attach your whole freakin wagon, the whole damned thing, to that guy. Like, how many ancient parables and biblical stories and lessons from history and literature do you have to ignore to not understand the basic wisdom of “dude, just don’t, it’s going to blow up in your face”? That’s what gives me the most pause. The ownership of this organization is just so completely cynical and rudderless. Nothing good comes from that.

No, what I am saying is that there is an obvious communication issue between the two if they're not on the same page as to the type of QB needed to run the system in place. If you're going to go out and get a gun slinger working almost totally out of the gun, then you need to build your offense accordingly - which isn't happening in Cleveland under Stefanski no matter what the press tells you. You also have to ask yourself, how many HC's and GM's can say that in 4 1/2 years of being in charge, they have had 3 QB's drafted in the top 10 (Winston 1st, Watson 10th, and Mayfield 1st) of which 2 were Heisman Trophy Winners and during the time frame in Cleveland not have any of those players post a winning record with the Browns: Winston 1-1, Watson 9-10 and Mayfield 29-30). That says more about the coach and GM than it does the players IMHO. Just an FYI, a top 10 QB pick in next year's draft would give Stefanski 4 top 10 QB's in 6 years - do we really want Stefanski coaching or Berry getting another top 10 pick considering their track record? I sure the hell don't!

First off, it's spelled douche bag.

I wasn't a huge fan of the Conklin extension, but his original signing was a great move. I wonder if your problem with Conklin is really a problem with the tackle positions in general. Conklin has injury issues, Wills has give-a-rip issues and really doesn't seem to be progressing at all since his first year, and Dawand Jones is a huge ?. Dude is somewhere between waiver wire material and starting LT. Behind them we have... Hudson? Yuck. When healthy, Conklin is the most sure thing of the bunch (until he inevitably goes down again).

Our offensive line play has REALLY fallen off over the past couple seasons and we don't have any sort of answer unless we hit it hard in the offseason (but it's not our only need right now).

Excellent post but I am not going to draft tackle at 5.

Probably not, but if it's a guy that can stabilize the LT position and allows Jones and whoever to duke it out over RT then it'd be worth it (IMO).

Let’s agree to disagree
But when you have the next Jamar chase
And Micah Parsons on the board I am going that direction.
To me the biggest disappointment is defense if we
Had played as well as Pittsburgh we would be in the discussion of being
In playoffs
If you go tackle or qb we would be talking about first overall next year.

Joe Thomas was drafted at #3 and it was the best draft pick the Browns have made since their return.

O k step forward and call the next Joe Thomas remember he only he only surrendered
4 sacks his rookie year.

I don’t think they’re throwing in the towel for a rebuild. Although some player’s may want out. Dvid Njoku wanted out one other time, so? Not saying we won’t make trades, just saying I think it’ll be two more games before they shut down their stars for the year.

If his strongest selling point is cap management then what're we talking about?

You are the one who brought up player names. Please Tell me the next Micah Parsons or Jamar chase that will be on the board in the 2025 draft?

The point I'm making is a simple one. High quality LT's, the franchise type, are a rare commodity. Their pay in commensurate with the top paid positions, other than QB in the league.

No single pick you make in the upcoming draft is going to turn this team around on a dime. Maybe QB but I'm not seeing that Mohommes/Golden boy at this point in time.

You don't build a team with a single player. So let me ask you, would it be better to draft a player that would give as a "few wins" so when it comes times to draft a QB in 2026 the Browns draft between 11-15 so they get the 3rd or 4th rated QB in that draft? Or would it be better to have their blind side protected for the next 10-12 years and pick on of the top 2 QB's in 2026?

Berry has failed to build a contender in Cleveland
That's on him and Depodesta. The Browns have achieved very
Little under Andrew Berry. When anyone thinks of the
Browns the 1st thing they think of is the monumental
Cluster cluck of a trade acquiring Watson.
They don't think of a contending AFC team.
He is not a good GM...maybe compared to past Browns
GM he is. But let's be real. The bar was set low for Browns
GMs when Berry took the job.
But compared to other NFL GMs he is bottom 10

To make my points there are edge this year that will be better then any tackle period.
Second the qb that is running around in Tampa is better than Joe Thomas.
Your saying if we had Joe Thomas at left tackle instead of mayfield at qb we would have won 12 games in are playoff winning year?
Yes or no
Also if joe Thomas join the team this year you say he is better then a multi year 100 plus rating qb
Yes or no
I am not here to start a argument I am just saying a 100 reception wr or 16
Sack will be there
Now answer who is going to be as good as Joe Thomas period put up or shut up
Then I will answer your question

Abdul Carter defensive end Penn state
Jamar chase this depends if he is sattled with stefanski he may never get there
To my knowledge no wide receiver ever in stefanski system had a 100 receptions when he was the coach
That said McMillan WR Arizona
6 feet 5 inches as tall as a njoku
212 lbs
Runs a 4.4 fourty as. Fast as Josh Gordon
So there you go I answered your question
Now name the next Joe Thomas

If that's so and one is there at our pick then that's fine. I'm not set at one position. I'm set on a foundational player at any one of the positions where it's difficult and rare to find a franchise type player at. CB, LT, edge rusher and so on.



As far as the ranking at their respective positions that's not true. Well I guess it is now that Joe Thomas is retired.


Mayfield was not available in the same draft we selected Joe Thomas. How do you try to compare someone drafted in 2018 with someone drafted in 2007? They weren't even in the same draft. Good Lord. You can only select a player in any draft that is on the board.


Who would that QB be? There was no "QB with a multi year 100 plus QB rating" out there this year. Which seems to be the point you fail to grasp here.


Talk about a point flying right over your head. My point wasn't about a certain position. My point is you don't walk away from a transitional player if there's one on the board. Do you realize just how many "100 catch" NCAA WR's flopped in the NFL? Do you realize how many great NCAA edge rushers have flopped in the NFL?

The part that's critical is having a GM that can identify and separate the difference between talent that will transition well to the NFL and those who will not. The answer to that question is not found on a spread sheet and the stats column alone. There's a lot more to it than that. Our current GM doesn't seem to be very good at that.

If you have a chance to get a transitional player you draft him. If you're looking at the third or fourth QB being there at your pick you probably should be looking at drafting a different position. In 2007 that pick was Joe Thomas. In 2018 they selected Baker while leaving Josh Allen on the board. Was that a good move too?

I don't care about college stats which seem to really impress you. I care about how the players talent transitions to the NFL game. Those are two totally different things.