DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns QBs under Stefanski

Went back and totaled their performance, for all QBs in the last 5 seasons under KS.

QBs are sorted by attempts.

1. Baker Mayfield - Starts: 30 / Record: 17-13 .567 / Comp: 558 / Att: 904 / Yds: 6573 / TD: 43 / Int: 21 / Comp%: 61.7 / Yds Per Att: 7.27 / TD%: 4.76 / Int%: 2.32 / QB Rating: 90.0
2. Deshaun Watson - Starts: 16 / Record: 9-7 .563 / Comp: 295 / Att: 489 / Yds: 2944 / TD: 18 / Int: 12 / Comp%: 60.3 / Yds Per Att: 6.02 / TD%: 3.68 / Int%: 2.45 / QB Rating: 79.5
3. Jacoby Brissett - Starts: 11 / Record: 4-7 .364 / Comp: 236 / Att: 369 / Yds: 2608 / TD: 12 / Int: 6 / Comp%: 64.0 / Yds Per Att: 7.07 / TD%: 3.25 / Int%: 1.63 / QB Rating: 88.9
4. Joe Flacco - Starts: 5 / Record: 4-1 .800 / Comp: 123 / Att: 204 / Yds: 1616 / TD: 13 / Int: 8 / Comp%: 60.3 / Yds Per Att: 7.92 / TD%: 6.37 / Int%: 3.92 / QB Rating: 90.2
5. Dorian Thompson-Robinson - Starts: 3 / Record: 1-2 .333 / Comp: 60 / Att: 112 / Yds: 440 / TD: 1 / Int: 4 / Comp%: 53.6 / Yds Per Att: 3.93 / TD%: 0.89 / Int%: 3.57 / QB Rating: 51.2
6. PJ Walker - Starts: 2 / Record: 1-1 .500 / Comp: 54 / Att: 111 / Yds: 674 / TD: 1 / Int: 5 / Comp%: 48.6 / Yds Per Att: 6.07 / TD%: 0.90 / Int%: 4.50 / QB Rating: 52.2
7. Case Keenum - Starts: 2 / Record: 2-0 1.000 / Comp: 52 / Att: 82 / Yds: 508 / TD: 3 / Int: 1 / Comp%: 63.4 / Yds Per Att: 6.20 / TD%: 3.66 / Int%: 1.22 / QB Rating: 87.9
8. Nick Mullens - Starts: 1 / Record: 0-1 .000 / Comp: 20 / Att: 30 / Yds: 147 / TD: 1 / Int: 0 / Comp%: 66.7 / Yds Per Att: 4.90 / TD%: 3.33 / Int%: 0.00 / QB Rating: 89.2
9. Jeff Driskell - Starts: 1 / Record: 0-1 .000 / Comp: 13 / Att: 26 / Yds: 166 / TD: 2 / Int: 2 / Comp%: 50.0 / Yds Per Att: 6.38 / TD%: 7.69 / Int%: 7.69 / QB Rating: 63.9

Next I looked at all QB's under KS by season.

2020 - Record: 11-5 / Comp: 315 / Att: 501 / Yds: 3701 / TD: 27 / Int: 8 / Comp%: 62.9 / Yds Per Att: 7.39 / TD%: 5.39 / Int%: 1.60 / QB Rating: 96.6
2021 - Record: 8-9 / Comp: 320 / Att: 520 / Yds: 3619 / TD: 21 / Int: 14 / Comp%: 61.5 / Yds Per Att: 6.96 / TD%: 4.04 / Int%: 2.69 / QB Rating: 84.6
2022 - Record: 7-10 / Comp: 335 / Att: 540 / Yds: 3710 / TD: 19 / Int: 12 / Comp%: 62.0 / Yds Per Att: 6.87 / TD%: 3.52 / Int%: 2.22 / QB Rating: 84.9
2023 - Record: 11-6 / Comp: 355 / Att: 624 / Yds: 4011 / TD: 24 / Int: 23 / Comp%: 56.9 / Yds Per Att: 6.43 / TD%: 3.85 / Int%: 3.69 / QB Rating: 73.7
2024 - Record: 1-3 / Comp: 91 / Att: 148 / Yds: 727 / TD: 4 / Int: 3 / Comp%: 61.5 / Yds Per Att: 4.91 / TD%: 2.70 / Int%: 2.03 / QB Rating: 74.4

TOTAL - Record: 38-33 / Comp: 1416 / Att: 2333 / Yds: 15,768 / TD: 95 / Int: 60 / Comp%: 60.7 / Yds Per Att: 6.76 / TD%: 4.07 / Int%: 2.57 / QB Rating: 83.7


I'll let you make your own conclusions.....

one thing that has stood out to me: in general our YPA by the QB is really low.

just from the eye test, whenever we successfully push the ball into the intermediate range of the defense it feels like a HUGE breath of fresh air

And then you watch the other "good" teams and they LIVE in that area of the field

We play in a bubble of 10 yards it seems

Not only is it low, it's gotten worse literally every season. I didn't realize this before compiling.

Baker and Flacco the only guys significantly over 7 yards per attempt.

I'm not sure if many will remember this game, but it was a game in Tennessee when we jumped out on them in the beginning and built a lead (maybe like 34-7) a few years ago

THAT was how I envisioned KS offense to operate ... motions, getting the defense in short yardage, and taking shots out of big packages

We have gotten away from anything that used to work IMO

Since it was brought up, each QBs yards per completion.

Mayfield: 11.78
Watson: 9.98
Brissett: 11.05
Flacco: 13.14
DTR: 7.33
Walker: 12.48
Keenum: 9.77
Mullens: 7.35
Driskell: 12.77

No, it shows he's not the offensive guru everyone wants to spew he is. Baker has done well since leaving, Flacco was great before coming here, Watson was great before coming here. Simply, KS doesn't develop anything

Flacco was on the couch before coming here. It appears all the other 31 NFL FO's across the league disagreed with you about Flacco "being great' at the point in time he was pulled off the couch to lead the Browns to the playoffs. Watson hadn't played for a year before coming here and then was suspended for 11 more games. Watson played much better this week. Since you have decided to give Stefanski hell for watson stinking up the joint do you give him credit for watson's improvement or is it only a one way street with you?

The QBR scale is 0-100, so in terms of that it shows Baker, Brissett, and Flacco up around 90 and Watson lower at 80. Not sure how different, but it is different. The only QBs lower than Watson have been the backups that played like backups when they were in there.

Looking at that, I'd say (if anything) it shows how KS can make mediocre QBs look pretty good (Brissett and Flacco were picked up as FAs where their previous teams had them as backups). Watsons stats (I only looked at the rate stats since the top 4 had different snapcount totals) overall put him at the bottom of that group. I can also see how it would support the "nobody has done less with more" argument regarding KS's offenses.

This is a dumb comment, and that's saying something coming from you.. I almost just ignored it like all your posts but oh well, i'm bored. My point..in which you missed completely , Show me where I said him being great at the time he called. I am talking in their careers, they were better or at the same level as they were here.. has nothing to do with stefanski.. Except for watson who as a 100+ qbr until he got here. Flacco has been a consistently high rated performer. Brissett didn't play a full season. His two full seasons starting in the colts had similar numbers as he did here.. so sorry, KS had nothing to do with it. As a BTW, Baker's numbers have improved since leaving here.

actually it is

QBR is 158 max. But as I explained in last post, QB's that come here don't do any better than they do anywhere else.. So there is no truth in this "Kevin Stefanski qb whisperer". Hes had a dominant Oline, top 2 running back.. If you gave that same tool set to a Shanahan or a reid. I guarantee you they'd get more out of whoever. Stefanski hasn't had a single QB with over 100 QBR in his tenure. Watson was never below until coming here, well one year he had a 98, still higher than any QB here under Stefanski. The point of it all, Noone gets better under him. He doesn't develop anything. If the talent is there he can work with it, but he is not developing, nor is he putting together a staff that is developing talent

Ok, maybe I was mistaken. I thought they were using the goofy ESPN QBR.

Regardless, I stand behind the statement I made about him making mediocre QBs better. Brissett played his best here in Cle (ignoring years he only played a couple games). He had a wild stat line in Washington right after he left, but that was only over 3 games. His play in NE this year has regressed so far. His year in Cleveland was a little better than his best year to date, which was a couple years prior.

Looking at Flacco's time here is a bit of a different animal, obviously. He was a bonafide starter in his earlier years. His partial year here was his most effective after Baltimore except for one year in NY. Most seasons after Balt, he doesn't log many games.


From a football knowledge/curiosity perspective, I'm really curious how the offense is able to evolve over the course of the season. To me, Stefanksi seems like the kind of guy that can manage/run his offense EXTREMELY well... but in order to do that he has to have the right parts. A big one is a QB that can throw accurately on time and executes well within the O. Baker and Watson are NOT those guys, plus you have the added variable of the offense being in flux with Dorsey's arrival.

Obviously, that's all IMO, so take it for what it's worth.

Unlike the mainstream media, I was trying to just lay out some facts and let you guys come to your own conclusions and insights rather than spoon feeding you what to think.

I was interested in the comparison after some people started talking about "fit" between Watson and Stefanski. After looking at the data I have some opinions/observations.

First, QB Rating is far from a perfect grading metric but it's one of the easier ones to calculate that attempts to look at QB performance as a whole across multiple categories without cherry picking.

In terms of QBR, our QBs rank
1) Flacco
2) Mayfield
3) Mullens (sample size)
4) Brissett
5) Keenum
6) Watson
7) Driskell (sample size)
8) Walker
9) DTR

Second, regardless of individual QBR, the point is to win games. Leadership, moxie, competitiveness, making plays when you need to etc.

In terms of winning pct, our QBs rank
1) Keenum (2 games)
2) Flacco
3) Mayfield
4) Watson
5) Walker
6) Brissett
7) DTR (3 games)
8) Mullens (1 game)
8) Driskell (1 game)

Third, I highlighted yards per attempt, because it combines both the QB ability to push the ball downfield with his ability to complete passes, which in essence is a metric of how efficiently the offense moves the ball when passing.

Based on yds/att our QBs rank
1) Flacco
2) Mayfield
3) Brissett
4) Driskell
5) Keenum
6) Walker
7) Watson
8) Mullens
9) DTR


Any trends starting to form?
Any conclusions we can draw about QB performance and/or "fit" into the type of offense Stefanski wants to run or has had the most success with?

Flacco was on the couch before coming here. It's not me who made that dumb comment. But I don't expect you to get it. There have been many great QB's from the past that are no longer great. NFL teams leave them on the couch too. For a reason. All other 31 teams left Flacco on the couch. Stop acting like he was a great QB for quite some years before he led the Browns to the playoffs. It isn't a good look.

He hadn't thrown for double digit TD's since 2017 before coming here. For the two seasons before he came here he was a backup for the Jets until they didn't think he was even fit for that job. And 30 other teams agreed with them. Blaming me because you posted something foolish doesn't look good on paper.

just from my eye test, the QB's I would want since we've had Stefanski:

1. Mayfield
2. Flacco
3. Brissett
4. DTR
5. Watson

Now, that's taking into account Watson not looking like he did last game (he probably played a top 3 game since becoming a Brown)

I think it's a mixed bag like the rest of Stefanskis record as HC of the Browns. Just when you're ready to say he's a genius he finds a way to make the offense and QB look bad. Its like he dumbs it all down to get the best out of QBs and then forgets what got him the success and plays cute or exotic and it all goes wrong. Depending on the season and point in time KS has been a QB whisperer .... Until he wasnt.

Add... Having the Best RB in the NFL in the backfield was a huge help. Many QBs would look better if they had Chubb taking chunks out of the D when he touches the ball.

I think these numbers look this way is because stefanski’s system is reliant on god tier RBs and a great O line. His offense doesn’t seem to want to be reliant on great QB play.

I wonder if any QB is gonna look great in his scheme. Sure, any number of QBs have looked good, but nobody has looked great. Even when mayfield was balling in 2020, that was behind Chubb and hunt absolutely dominating every week.

Yeah! O’boy O’boy.

Some of you probably remember that Baker.
What a failure but thanks to Berry and Stefanski we didn’t throw insane money on such a rotten apple.

We have real adults in the room who truly know how to evaluate character and nurture young talents and with that we can be sure that we keep the gems and get rid of the trash. Hats off to our great leaders.

Did I mention Kareem?

I really feel for all Browns fans because most of you deserves so much more.

If the Haslams decides to keep the incompetence this organization will continue to underachieve as long as nothing changes.
Andrew Berry is a check book manager.

Take a look at some of the other historical underachieved organizations.

Detroit Lions
Tampa Bay Buccaneers

It’s all come down to decision making.

Detroit traded away Stafford but instead of buying they invested in talents and trusted the process.
The Bucs lost Brady but instead of panicking they put faith in their management to find hidden potential without overpaying or creating a QB carousel.

Organizations don’t always have to find ready made elite QBs.

We can also learn from the Vikings.

It’s not always about finding the best quarterback but maybe more about finding someone with hidden potential who won’t cost a fortune and who’s willing to buy into a concept without creating havoc when things go south.

When the GM feels compelled to make a public statement to support the HC things are getting bad. And often times that gets done not long before that HC does get fired.

And speaking of "QB, QB, QB" Berry is the man that put us in QB hell for five years. So it very well could be that Berry won't have any say on Stefanski for long himself.

Get yours Floq, and rub it in hard.

Kareem lost a step…

https://www.nfl.com/videos/kareem-hunt-s-best-plays-in-106-yard-game-week-9

You’re so right (if I understand your rolling eyes correctly)

Kareem has this season 5TD in 5G.
So far 414yards with an average of 82yards/game.
All numbers is better or on par with earlier career hight’s in relation to that he’s only been part of 5 games in 2024 season so far.

First and foremost he deserves all the praises he gets. His team mates seem to love him and his wonderful smile can melt icebergs. So happy for him.

I'm inclined to believe Kareem had an issue here that needed time to heal/recover. In the final part of his stint here, he looked SLOOOOW.

I'm also happy for Kareem, as I was a big fan of our two-headed monster running game.

He definitely looks like a new back there. He was slow getting into second gear when he was here for sure.

Man, what I would do to have that 2020 roster (minus Sendejo) back in form.

I blame Schwartz (the WR). That interception was really the linchpin that started our downward spiral.

It is interesting but when you look at Detroits backfield that was all
Drafted while Berry watched
Trent Williams draft picks in the 20s
Tunstil left tackle Houston
We are drafting tackles at eleven that do not work

Like tackles later
This is 100 percent on berrys watch
The argument 1player does not make a difference
Marvin Harrison Wr Arizona they went from a top
5 to in the playoffs

It is going to be interesting but we could wind up with 4 all pros from the draft this
Prediction thread Will berry do it no!!

He also is only averaging 3.7 ypc. That is up from the 3 ypc he had last year.

Agree. We took huge gamble on Watson- he has flamed out. I still can't imagine they- our Browns- didn't know/or care about his sexual misconduct--unforgivable if they didn't know---AND as very conservative/straight arrows to hand the franchise to such a person is VERY REGRETTABLE. Our recent team thrived when the offensive line was healthy and dominate. That doesn't apply today/ or this year-- we need a good, two-way quarterback with NO character issues- DW and JM both were terrible choices in MHO......this season is over, suck for better draft pick.

Your funny to say that full of stuffing developed
Mayfield is like saying we help develop Brady!!!

They knew.........

Cleveland Browns say team did 'extensive' research into Deshaun Watson before completing trade

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...-inquiry-deshaun-watson-completing-trade

"It was pivotal that we, along with Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski, meet with Deshaun to have a straightforward dialogue, discuss our priorities, and hear directly from him on how he wants to approach his career on and off the field. He was humble, sincere and candid. In our conversations, Deshaun detailed his commitment to leading our team; he understands and embraces the hard work needed to build his name both in the community and on the field. ... We are confident in Deshaun and excited about moving forward with him as our quarterback and supporting his genuine and determined efforts.''

Statement from the Haslams.

——————————————————

‘a Straightforward dialogue” ?

‘We are confident in Deshaun and excited about moving forward with him as our quarterback and supporting his genuine and determined efforts.''

- Hi Deshaun! Are these women lying about you?
- Yes!
- OK! How about $230M guaranteed? A nice little press conference where we do some yada yada and you answer a few softball questions. Is that ok?
Yes!
Deal?
Deal!

To call the Browns a clown show is an understatement. It takes something extra to be that stupid.

If they’re telling the truth they’re idiots.
If they’re lying it’s even worse.

There’s no excuses left.

Sam Darnold could be available next year. He's probably better than anything we have right now.

Darnoldwill probably get north of mayfield dreamland for us.

Like I said 18 and 30 months ago, if Watson doesn’t pan out we are beyond screwed.

This buds for you

OK, so they knew......they've lost my respect- period. Chasing a championship and putting that guy in charge is nuts, especially talking out of the other side of your mouth about character......yes, we are to forgive and give second chances.....but, to make him the face of the Browns---nuts.

Browns QBs- I think I saw our new starter had 15 yards passing at half-time against the Bengals- I'm 76 and could get that many. He should be replaced soon- even if his character is great.

The off the field stuff isn't really the problem. I.e, He's behaved off the field. The problem is that he turned from princess to pumpkin on the field.

If he'd played well, Cleveland media would be filled with feel good redemption stories on Watson. But, he didn't play well. He lost his mojo and it doesn't appear to be coming back. Whether it's due to injury or between the ears, we'll probably never know.

...No happy endings for anyone involved.

Detroit didn't draft Montgomery. We had a healthy Chubb when they drafted Gibbs.

Trent Williams wasn't in any of Berry's drafts. Tunsil got caught smoking pot in a gas mask on draft day. There were reasons they were available later.

Arizona and MHJ doesn't feel like a great example, either. One of the benefits of a bad season is that you get to play the other bad teams the next season. The NFC West also imploded this season. 49ers and Rams (and Seahawks?) both have dealt with injuries all season. The Cardinals won some close games against bad teams and/or ones that were missing important players. They just lost to the Panthers. Arizona has had a relatively healthy team this season. That's a big factor.

You are right that one player can make a difference. Unfortunately, for us those differences were negative.

Watson's performance fell off a cliff, then it kept falling.

When you think a player is going to be the positive difference maker that you need, but ends up not being that player any more despite being in the prime of his career, and actually is the complete opposite of a positive, well, we're seeing what happens.