I honestly wish you were all in on at least 2 or 3 QBs, that would at least give us a chance at one of them, lol. I just haven't seen really anyone stand out. There are a few with some good qualities.
Agreed about how there are some big games still to be played, those games should make it interesting. We are about two months away from bs time. Where the media starts hyping up QBs over throwing sessions and etc.
I know Nussmeier is a first year starter. The team is not great.
He makes some mistakes.
But he is the one guy I have seen that can properly play from the pocket. He hangs tough under pressure.
He has good footwork and fast release. He has true arm talent. He can make NFL throws into tight windows.
Ewers seems savvy and is accurate.
Ward is athletic but undisciplined. He has great moments. Then he moves too early with bad feet.
Sanders is overall good but nothing special in any way.
If Nussmeier stayed in school next year he would be for sure top five. I like his potential. He could be a steal in the second round of this years draft.
No wonder why it is so difficult to forecast how a college quarterback will play in the NFL.
I watched Milroe play yesterday. Man, he has a long way to go to be an NFL quarterback.
Or, maybe he is another Lamar? You cannot tell from where he is now. You just can't.
There are drawbacks on every QB prospect coming out this year.
I do not know anything about the other position players in the draft.
I would think there has to be better players at other positions. It would be a stretch putting one of the quarterbacks into the top ten.
For the Browns I am beginning to think it would be great to get someone like Nussmeier or Ewers in the second round.
Use the first pick and take BPA. Take the best player on your Board.
I think the odds of getting a good QB in rounds 2 or 3 are better than getting a great QB in the first any year other than if you have maybe the 1st or 2nd pick. We have enough needs that we don't have to force anything. Let the draft come to us. Fewer mistakes are made that way.
I would be fine rolling with Winston for another year or two with a young QB in the wings not named DTR. Berry is going to sink us if he continues to insist that DTR is a starting QB. DTR is a OK back-up at best. I am not saying we should cut DTR. He has value but I wouldn't be betting the future of the offense on the guy.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
The old forever argument is need or best player available.
We need a quarterback. The problem is finding him. If you find your guy it really does not matter what round he came from.
Obviously you have a better shot with a higher pick.
This draft does not have a consensus number one quarterback.
I wish I was more confident in Winston. In the back of my mind I keep thinking when it counts most. We will be disappointed.
I have looked at the quarterbacks but have not really dug deep.
I know nothing about the other positions. The one guy I looked at was Luther Burden.
We have lots of needs.
The most sound philosophy when it comes to the draft is take the best player available.
However, on occasion if a guy fits a need that is critical. And you love the player. You might have to move to get him.
I think AB is ok but I am uncertain about him as the top draft decision maker. If AB stays. I hope he brings on a person who's opinion he trusts as a player evaluator.
QB's are usually the one position picked in the draft above their actual draft status because the need is so great. And more often times than not teams pay for making that decision. I hope the Browns don't end up being one such team.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
QB's are usually the one position picked in the draft above their actual draft status because the need is so great. And more often times than not teams pay for making that decision. I hope the Browns don't end up being one such team.
When you consider the Watson trade and blown picks on QBs, we are precisely that team. But I get it, he wasn’t drafted by us.
We could stand an upgrade just about everywhere. I would take BPA with our #1. If a QB we have some interest in falls to the 2nd round, then take him if not BPA there also. I would use the same strategy throughout the draft. Let the draft come to us.
We know AB is the GM. He is responsible for the roster.
We know little if anything about AB's staff of scouts. Nor do we know how in the end a decision is made to draft a particular player.
Which scouts are highly respected? What influence do they have on Berry? How does that process really work?
Imagine AB with his staff of scouts going over the draft rankings on their Board. Where have they succeeded and failed since Berry has been the GM?
What improvements has Berry added over his time in Cleveland?
We can debate from now till draft day about which players we like. It is a fun exercise but meaningless.
The Browns need to improve their drafting process. They need to do everything possible to improve their odds of success.
The only way to succeed in the NFL is to draft good players. I do not care who the head coach is. If you don't have talent on the roster. You will not win.
Disclaimer; I am not, repeat NOT pimping Shedeur Sanders as a Browns draft pick. I'm simply adding this information to the thread since a lot of attention has been directed towards the QB position.
Colorado QB Shedeur Sanders wins Unitas Award
November 30 - Colorado's Shedeur Sanders was named winner of the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award on Friday, an honor given to the nation's top quarterback. Sanders will be honored next Friday in Baltimore.
Later in the day, Sanders passed for 438 yards and five touchdowns during the Buffaloes' 52-0 shellacking of Oklahoma State.
Sanders set school records this season of 3,926 passing yards and 35 touchdown passes. It is the second straight season in which he set the school yardage mark.
Sanders has completed 74.2 percent of his passes while accumulating 35 touchdown passes and just eight interceptions. No. 25 Colorado (9-3, 7-2 Big 12) is averaging 34.5 points per game, and it's possible the Buffaloes could be in the conference title game next week.
Coach Deion Sanders, father of Shedeur, said his son would play in whichever bowl game the Buffaloes are invited. Shedeur Sanders is considered a first-round pick in the 2015 NFL draft.
The other finalists were Jaxson Dart of Ole Miss, Dillon Gabriel of Oregon, Kurtis Rourke of Indiana and Cam Ward of Miami.
The one guy in this draft that for me is the biggest question mark is Jalen Milroe.
History is to be learned from.
When Lamar Jackson was drafted I was sure he would never make it as a quarterback. He was about as immature as a passer as you could find. He had horrible throwing mechanics. Upright, narrow base, inaccurate outside the numbers. He didn't seem to be able to read defenses at all. Limited on the throws he could complete.
The one thing that he could do though is not get tackled. Unreal runner who seemed impossible to tackle.
Baltimore to their credit saw into the future. They put him into a run centric offense and developed him into an MVP. Here we are with Lamar aiming at his third MVP.
Jalen Milroe could be that guy. He actually is ahead of where Lamar was. He is not the same as Lamar however. Milroe runs like a running back. He is fast, powerful, and explosive. He has a bigger frame than Lamar. He is not as crazy elusive as Lamar. But he is more powerful.
Milroe has the arm strength. However, mentally he is a guy who depends on his running ability. He knows he can run the ball. So, his decision process has that default to run when in doubt.
From what I have read about Milroe as a leader and his mental makeup. He carries 3.52 in management. A 2023 CSC Academic All-District selection, he has made the President's List in addition to landing on the SEC Honor Roll and the Dean's List three times each.
Offensive coordinator Nick Sheridan is seeing the veteran quarterback set a tone with teammates that's unmistakable.
"He's as hard of a working player as I've ever been around. He's a completely committed, devoted student-athlete in all areas," Sheridan said Wednesday. "His teammates respect that. And I think he's becoming more and more comfortable, even in our time here, of using his voice to encourage, to confront, to demand. Because he's certainly putting in the time and the work."
He should be there when we pick. "If" the Browns employ a plan on how to develop Milroe and not rush him. He could be the jewel of this draft.
There is of course risk. He may never develop.
IMO he is the most intriguing player in this draft.
If I were the Browns FO I would scout Milroe extensively.
The Ravens were already (or at least mostly) built to take on an incomplete talent like Lamar. They had the run game and defense to make it work and be patient.
In order for us to do anything equivalent, we would have to make a hefty investment into the Oline and somehow score an upgrade at RB (I'm assuming Chubb won't return to full pre-injury capacity... i.e. we need someone to push Ford down/off the roster). Oline has been trending down over the past few seasons (Bitonio aging, Teller regressing, and I doubt we gotta rehash the tackles). Best case scenario (Dawand and Zinter work out), we need another starter caliber tackle (probably LT) and a guard. That is A LOT considering we are going to be hamstrung by Watson's contract.
Maybe there is a good get or two at QB in this draft, but I don't think we are in a position to take advantage.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
It makes no difference where we are now. If after exhausting research you want Milroe.
We can bridge Milroe with a guy like Winston or other vets. Flacco was the bridge to Lamar.
There should be no plan to start him until he is deemed ready.
We have draft capital to build the team around him. There is free agency. We also have trade capital to fill in positions.
Again if sold on Milroe. Do not hesitate. If it takes two, three, or four years to build so what. If he develops there are resources that can be spent to build around him.
oobernoober, I don't get what you mean by being hamstrung by Watson's contract. DeShaun's contract is preventing the Browns from doing what?
Berry has drafted a few o-line guys Wypler, Jones, and Zinter the last two years. If I'm not mistaken, Berry has drafted at least one O-line guy each year. Before 2023, drafting a starting offensive lineman wasn't a priority. I would like to see them draft Bitonio's replacement. It could be Zinter, and Wypler could be Teller's replacement. If anything, they could sign a free agent. They need more you can never have too many offensive linemen.
The Browns need a quarterback they can build around. That is the one thing holding this franchise down. I don't think they need to force it.
The good teams seem to have their quarterback fall to them in the draft instead of chasing it. This could be because good teams know how to develop quarterbacks.
Berry and Stefanski need to stay the course and stop the quick fix. They are better when they stay in their lane and find the players that fit their schemes.
Fit is a part of that. However, Dorsey was hired as OC to make the fit. DW had input. The offense was designed with DW to fit what he is most comfortable with.
He has been injured. However, the reasons go way deeper than injury.
Instead of being the player he was. He has regressed into a quarterback who does not deserve to start in the NFL.
No criticism for Bonefish, but that quote in the post keeps appearing repeatedly. The offense was re-structured for DW and with DW to fit DW and make him more comfortable, based on his strengths. Being a bit cynical on my best day, the irony keeps nudging me. Using what I saw repeatedly in his play on the field, those strengths included freezing, flushing from the pocket too soon, taking sacks, holding the ball too long, missing open receivers, overthrowing the same, going to the closest receiver on check down regardless of down & distance, and failing to correct little if any of this week after week. This ain't rust. He just can't play well in the Bigs anymore. Take any clawback available. Plays like Flipper 2 .0.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
As it stands now, I would not take a QB in the first round. I would take an impact player in the 1st and by that I mean an OT. DL. CB. WR etc. IF a Milroe or a QB we like is there in the 2nd then fine. I wouldn't reach for one. We can go with JW next season and draft solid players to increase talent.
Fit is a part of that. However, Dorsey was hired as OC to make the fit. DW had input. The offense was designed with DW to fit what he is most comfortable with.
He has been injured. However, the reasons go way deeper than injury.
Instead of being the player he was. He has regressed into a quarterback who does not deserve to start in the NFL.
Nobody could have seen that.
All I know is Dorsey and Stefanski are combining schemes. Winston is Stefanski's type of quarterback. Yet, Dorsey is calling the plays.
I favor the Dorsey/Stefanski combo. If they can coexist, they expand each other's scheme arsenal.
Browns are too good to draft early. They must find a niche other teams are not looking for drafting a quarterback.
oobernoober, I don't get what you mean by being hamstrung by Watson's contract. DeShaun's contract is preventing the Browns from doing what?
Berry has drafted a few o-line guys Wypler, Jones, and Zinter the last two years. If I'm not mistaken, Berry has drafted at least one O-line guy each year. Before 2023, drafting a starting offensive lineman wasn't a priority. I would like to see them draft Bitonio's replacement. It could be Zinter, and Wypler could be Teller's replacement. If anything, they could sign a free agent. They need more you can never have too many offensive linemen.
The Browns need a quarterback they can build around. That is the one thing holding this franchise down. I don't think they need to force it.
The good teams seem to have their quarterback fall to them in the draft instead of chasing it. This could be because good teams know how to develop quarterbacks.
Berry and Stefanski need to stay the course and stop the quick fix. They are better when they stay in their lane and find the players that fit their schemes.
My assumption is that, either left or right, fixing the Oline quickly will probably involve signing a starter-caliber tackle in FA. Those guys don't come cheap. Having an albatross contract weighing you down for a few years for a guy that won't even be starting (at least we can hope) makes that harder.
My assumption is also that, if KS and AB want to get this fixed, they want to do it quickly while our key pieces on D are still in their prime.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Stefanski is the coach. He isn't responsible for scouting nor drafting players. This has always been a very basic concept with the exceptions of coaches such as Belichick. He was both HC and GM. Very few HC's have been on that elite list and Stefanski most certainly isn't one of them. Andy Reid is the only other current HC who may be on that list who is currently coaching in the NFL.
Do I think the chef (HC) should have a say in buying the ingredients (players)? Yes I do. But for the most part the HC tells the FO what type of/style of player he needs at different positions. It's up to the FO and scouting department to compile the draft board and rank the players.
In our case the chef (Stefanski) makes the meal with the ingredients this FO gives him.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I'm not so sure the people who were buying the groceries didn't have a hand in that. After all they paid a fortune for that wilted lettuce and had every reason to make the chef sell it as a great salad. It's as if their careers depended on it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Agree, but KS was the one telling us serving wilted lettuce was his decision and that it was because he thought it would be the most likely meal to satify our hunger.
Pit, I am conflicted. I am growing tired of using this analogy. But everytime we do, it makes me smile
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Agree, but KS was the one telling us serving wilted lettuce was his decision and that it was because he thought it would be the most likely meal to satify our hunger.
Pit, I am conflicted. I am growing tired of using this analogy. But everytime we do, it makes me smile
When your boss gives you your marching orders, you do things his way or are quickly out of a job. Try to blame the boss, even if he's really responsible, and it's also not likely to end well. Kevin's good at taking one for the team/falling on the sword. I think that's a good trait for a HC to have. I also think it must suck from the coach's perspective. It has to get old.
Jimmy tells him, "This is the sandwich on the menu. You have to sell it, Kevin."
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
oobernoober, I don't get what you mean by being hamstrung by Watson's contract. DeShaun's contract is preventing the Browns from doing what?
Berry has drafted a few o-line guys Wypler, Jones, and Zinter the last two years. If I'm not mistaken, Berry has drafted at least one O-line guy each year. Before 2023, drafting a starting offensive lineman wasn't a priority. I would like to see them draft Bitonio's replacement. It could be Zinter, and Wypler could be Teller's replacement. If anything, they could sign a free agent. They need more you can never have too many offensive linemen.
The Browns need a quarterback they can build around. That is the one thing holding this franchise down. I don't think they need to force it.
The good teams seem to have their quarterback fall to them in the draft instead of chasing it. This could be because good teams know how to develop quarterbacks.
Berry and Stefanski need to stay the course and stop the quick fix. They are better when they stay in their lane and find the players that fit their schemes.
My assumption is that, either left or right, fixing the Oline quickly will probably involve signing a starter-caliber tackle in FA. Those guys don't come cheap. Having an albatross contract weighing you down for a few years for a guy that won't even be starting (at least we can hope) makes that harder.
My assumption is also that, if KS and AB want to get this fixed, they want to do it quickly while our key pieces on D are still in their prime.
I don't think we will just bring in a O-line starter...as in a guy who is already starting. It will be a reclamation project.
I am not saying that in a bad way. It is what it is. I am just saying I doubt we bring in a FA starter.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Agree, but KS was the one telling us serving wilted lettuce was his decision and that it was because he thought it would be the most likely meal to satify our hunger.
Pit, I am conflicted. I am growing tired of using this analogy. But everytime we do, it makes me smile
When your boss gives you your marching orders, you do things his way or are quickly out of a job. Try to blame the boss, even if he's really responsible, and it's also not likely to end well. Kevin's good at taking one for the team/falling on the sword. I think that's a good trait for a HC to have. I also think it must suck from the coach's perspective. It has to get old.
Jimmy tells him, "This is the sandwich on the menu. You have to sell it, Kevin."
Quoted for truth. I couldn't have said it any better myself.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I'm guessing this is accurate (perplexity AI), usually when not sure, the engine will say so.
Sooo... since the Browns would draft last of all the 3-8 teams, I'm guessing we have the hardest schedule of those teams. That likely won't change much so we'll draft lowest of the teams we're tied with. (First tiebreaker for draft is always strength of schedule)
Based on the latest search results after Week 14 of the 2024 NFL season, the current 2025 NFL Draft order is as follows: 1. Las Vegas Raiders (2-11) 2. New York Giants (2-11) 3. New England Patriots (3-10) 4. Carolina Panthers (3-10) 5. Jacksonville Jaguars (3-10) 6. Tennessee Titans (3-10) 7. New York Jets (3-10) 8. Cleveland Browns (3-10) 9. Cincinnati Bengals (4-8) 10. Chicago Bears (4-8)
Here's where I think the discrepancy lies... (disclaimer: I'm just doing some quick math in my head and have no real interest in verifying because it would mean reverse-engineering the mathematics, ie... tedious lol)
*I think* some AI engines are calculating strength of schedule by including the records of teams we haven't played yet. While that may be a better predictor of where a team may end up, it is not an accurate reflection of where we are on this day.
After further review, AI is too stupid to understand the basic principles required to sort this out. I've tried to spoon feed the criteria back through the engine and it still pulled up lame. It finally made corrections but seems like it's shooting from the hip with many teams. This was actually entertaining though.
I told it there was an incorrect calculation of SOS and reminded it of the rules, and got a new list, with a cop out at the end and a bunch of teams missing. 🤣
You're right to point out this discrepancy, and I apologize for not applying these criteria consistently in my previous list. Let me provide a more accurate and detailed draft order based on the criteria I mentioned: New York Giants (2-11, .527 SOS) Las Vegas Raiders (2-11, .574 SOS) New England Patriots (3-10) Arizona Cardinals (3-10) Washington Commanders (4-9) Chicago Bears (5-8) New York Jets (5-8) Tennessee Titans (5-8) Green Bay Packers (6-7) Los Angeles Chargers (5-8) New Orleans Saints (6-7) Atlanta Falcons (6-7) Seattle Seahawks (6-7) Las Vegas Raiders (via Chicago Bears, 5-8) Denver Broncos (7-6) Pittsburgh Steelers (7-6) Minnesota Vikings (7-6) Tampa Bay Buccaneers (6-7)
For teams with identical records (like the 3-10 and 5-8 teams), I've attempted to order them based on strength of schedule where available. However, for many teams, the exact SOS isn't provided in my current data. In a real-world scenario, the NFL would use the full set of tiebreakers to determine the exact order. This list is more reflective of the current NFL standings and draft order criteria. Thank you for prompting me to provide a more accurate representation.
Why are the cleveland browns not included on this list now?
The Cleveland Browns were not included in the previous draft order list due to an oversight. According to the latest information, the Browns currently hold the 5th overall pick in the 2025 NFL Draft with a record of 3-10. Here’s the corrected draft order including the Browns and their strength of schedule: New York Giants (2-11, .527 SOS) Las Vegas Raiders (2-11, .574 SOS) New England Patriots (3-10, SOS not provided) Carolina Panthers (3-10, SOS not provided) Cleveland Browns (3-10, .547 SOS)
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