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He made the playoffs with four different starting QB's. One was pulled off of his couch. But never let that get in the way of your bias.

Sorry to break the news for you but …. Yes we are. Results don’t lie my friend.

Berry. Stefanski. The owner. These three sat at the podium when the biggest fiasco in the history of football was presented to the public.
In any normal business that’s enough to fire anyone who was part of such idiotic decision.

Stefanski is in charge of our roster and therefore has the main responsibility for our results.

I’m sorry but I’m 100% certain you will never see a Browns team win the SB with Berry and Stefanski in charge of this organization.
You can quote one that whenever you want.

"Stefanski is in charge of our roster and therefore has the main responsibility for our results."

KS is not involved with roster decisions that decide who is on the team that is AB's job.

KS's job in the Browns organization is to coach the players on the roster. That includes all game day field decisions. Also, preparing the game plan and preparing the players for each week's game.

He is not mainly responsible for the results.

If the greatest head coach in history has a team without talent; they will not win many games.

If an average head coach has great talent; they will win games.

Look at the standings in the NFL divisions and the team records. What do you see?

You see teams with good quarterback play with the best records. Is that a coincidence?

I don't think so.

Great players make great coaches. Lot of truth there.

Remember the line from Bill Parcells when he left the Pats HC job? If they want me to cook the dinner I should shop for the "groceries" or something close to that. Maybe KS has some input but ultimately, he does not choose the players. That's on our FO. Bone is correct.

Several NFL head coaches have won the AP NFL Coach of the Year award multiple times, including:

Don Shula
Won the award four times, three with the Baltimore Colts and one with the Miami Dolphins. Shula is considered a legend for his longevity and success, and holds the NFL record for most wins.

Bill Belichick
Won the award three times, in 2003, 2007, and 2010. Belichick is considered the most successful coach of the Super Bowl era, and has won six NFL titles.

Chuck Knox
Won the award three times.
George Halas
Won the award twice. Halas is considered the NFL's first super coach.

Tom Landry
Won the award once. Landry was the first head coach of the Dallas Cowboys.

Kevin Stefanski
Won the award twice, most recently in 2024 with the Cleveland Browns. Stefanski is the second-youngest head coach to win the award twice.

How much blame does Kevin Stefanski deserve for Browns' 3-8 season? – Terry Pluto

Updated: Dec. 01, 2024, 5:26 a.m.|Published: Dec. 01, 2024, 5:25 a.m.

I can't post the link since you have to be a member but Terry just published his article yesterday.


and just like any business you don't run around half cocked firing two time Coach Of The Year winners. Let us all know when you do your job for years without any mistakes. Now BIGGEST FIASCO IN THE HISTORY OF FOOTBALL. Ummm this is a Browns board, not a Drama class to practice your acting bro, or in this case OVER acting.



*Hands you more charmin,* your elbow deep

Mike Tomlin
18 seasons and counting.

You all must start to open your eyes.

Stefanski’s record is mediocre, to put it mildly. Or do you think results lie my friend?

In his first season 2020 he had Baker, Chubb, Myles, Denzel, a great O-line and Jarvis L just to name a few very good players to his disposal. Anything else than a playoff appearance would have been a huge disappointment.
2021 disappointing
2022 disappointing
2023 he probably had the best defense in the league. Still his journey ended in Houston. Against a Rookie QB. You tell me. success?
2024 huge disappointment

I agree with you in general about needing quality to truly succeed but that doesn’t mean Kevin is an elite HC.
In fact after almost five seasons the result tells us the opposite.

One step forward, two steps back.

LMAO 2019-2020 season Mike Tomlins team was 8-8 and finished in 2nd place.. according to what you have posted that means ... disappointing
2020-2021 1st place BUT lost 1st round playoff game the The Cleveland Browns... disappointing times 10 lol
2021-2022 2nd place in division LOST in 1st round of playoffs... disappointing
2022-2023 3rd place in Division lost in 1st round of playoffs... disappointing
2023-2024..... TBD

So would you look at that Kevins first 4 seasons as head coach ended just like Tomlin's disappointing. Yet Kevin was NFL Coach of the year TWICE vs Tomlins ZERO

How much blame does Kevin Stefanski deserve for Browns' 3-8 season? – Terry Pluto
Story by Terry Pluto, cleveland.com

link

 
 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Now Kevin Stefanski has a chance to really coach.

That was one of my first thoughts the day after Deshaun Watson was injured. The Browns QB is out for the season as he recovers from Achilles surgery.

None of this is about wanting Watson to get injured. I was hoping he’d be benched after about four games this season because of his dismal performance. It was obvious something was very wrong with Watson, who ranked near the bottom in nearly every significant QB statistical ranking.

 The Browns added offensive coordinator Ken Dorsey to help design a more Watson-friendly offense. It turned out to be worse than Stefanski’s offense was for Watson in 2023.

That’s because this is not the three-time Pro Bowl Watson of 2018-20. I doubt any offense and/or coaching staff was going to turn Watson into even an average QB in 2024.

The numbers don’t lie

Watson played seven games and couldn’t throw for 200 yards … not once. My sense is Watson isn’t fully recovered from his major shoulder surgery in 2023. His longest gain on any pass was 35 yards. That’s it.

His confidence also is shot, which explains why he bolted from the pocket so often and so early.

I’m not going to dwell on all of Watson’s deficiencies. But his performance has created problems for Stefanski and the coaching staff. In Watson’s seven starts, the Browns couldn’t score more than 18 points and had a 1-6 record.

Watson often seemed distant, almost like a guy going to a job he doesn’t like. He may have been reflecting what he believed was a lack of enthusiasm for him from Browns fans. But he had to know that was coming when he made the decision to take Cleveland’s money. He had no goodwill in the bank with Cleveland fans.

 

 What has changed?

Jameis Winston has taken over for Watson and thrown for more than 200 yards in each of his four starts. He’s averaging 295 yards passing per game. The Browns are 2-2 with victories over Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

The Browns lost games by scores of 20-16 (Philadelphia and Las Vegas) and 21-15 (N.Y. Giants) with Watson. Isn’t it possible they’d have won at least some of those with Winston?

I know Dorsey is calling the plays, but Stefanski now has a QB capable of working from the pocket and throwing downfield. The same thing happened in 2023 when Joe Flacco showed up for the final five games of the season.

Like Winston, Flacco is a strong-armed pocket passer. Yes, interceptions are part of his game. But so are big plays and touchdowns.

Remember Jacoby Brissett? He started the first 11 games for the Browns in 2022 when Watson was suspended. Some fans will point out the Browns were 4-7 in those games. That’s true. But the Browns also were No. 10 in scoring in those 11 games with Brissett. The biggest problem was the defense.

 Here’s a list of quarterbacks who had either their best seasons (or good ones) when working with Stefanski: Case Keenum (2017), Kirk Cousins (2018-2019), Baker Mayfield (2020), Jacoby Brissett (2022), Joe Flacco (2023) and now Winston.

In 2017 when Stefanski was Minnesota’s QB coach, Keenum was 11-3 as starter. He’s a career backup. Flacco was considered washed up and no one wanted him. He was 4-1 as a starter last year. Now Winston is productive.

The problem isn’t Stefanski and his offense.

It’s Watson.

 

Why bring this up?

Stefanski can be blamed for what seemed like a soft training camp. I also fault him for having too many pre-snap penalties. The Browns are 3-8. It’s not to say they’d be 8-3 with a different QB.

But a big part of what was wrong with the Browns is Watson’s struggles. And yes, with Winston they would have won a few more games.

Watson’s presence put Stefanski in a tough spot. During the QB’s 11-game suspension and the more than 20 civil suits that were eventually settled, who was continually asked questions about the off-field trouble?

 It was Stefanski.

The coach also had to find ways to explain Watson’s poor performance. Remember … rust? After all, he went exactly 700 days between regular season starts. Of course, he’s rusty. That was the party line.

Then Stefanski was asked why Flacco could miss all of training camp and 2/3 of the 2023 season because no one signed him – then quickly adapt to the offense.

The coach was put in a lousy position from a move that ultimately was an ownership decision. Yes, I heard GM Andrew Berry liked Watson as a player, as did others with the Browns. But when you bring in a player with a monster contract and ugly off-field baggage that fractures a fan base – that’s an ownership move.

 

What I want to see

Can the offense continue to show life with Winston?

Can Jerry Jeudy continue to display major promise with Winston throwing him the ball?

Can the team compete with enthusiasm even as their playoff chances are nearly zero?

 

Can Stefanski keep the attention of the players? Can Winston continue to thrive?

I expect at least some of these things will happen over the final six games. And it will show that the Browns' main problem isn’t Stefanski, it’s the Watson situation.

 

Hear me talk

I will be at the Willoughby Hills Library on Tuesday at 6:30 p.m. It’s free. You can register here.

©2024 Advance Local Media LLC. Visit cleveland.com. Distributed by Tribune Content Agency, LLC.

Actually most great coaches that played in the NFL were marginal players. At least those who make to be a HC. There are a few exceptions but for the most part they don't keep their HC'ing jobs very long.

Not what I understand it to say. Looking to take exception to this quote? Many top coaches have achieved their legacy with great players beside them. Otto Graham, Jim Brown, Shula, Montana. Pick and choose your pairings. Brady and Bellichek. Fame is a synergy, a sharing we have lacked.

Great players aren't anyone who played with great players. Your assertion was the "great players make great coaches." The only one I can think of who was a HC that was a borderline great player over the past 20 years is Mike Vrabel. His win/loss record as a HC is 55 wins and 45 losses. Not bad but I certainly wouldn't call it great.

There are good points made on both sides of the Kevin Stefanski debate. I for one think he is a good coach that at this point should continue on as our HC. I feel KS has established himself as a Bonafide NFL HC who if he is fired will get a HC job with another team or at the very least strong consideration. However, I will be openminded on this subject. Let's see how the team plays for him these last 6 games. If they play hard and keep the games close, then that will say a lot about how the players feel because as far as the playoffs there's really nothing left to play for. Tonight's game will say a lot. We almost never beat Denver no matter where we play them. If we come out tonight and win, which to me would be just short of a miracle or at least play hard and keep it close that will say much about KS and the players. Let's all give KS and our Browns the rest of the season.

I don’t think that is what Bard meant, but even then it’s only partially true. He meant great players make coaches look good, I think, but it’s a combination of a few things. It’s never “either/or”.

My problem with that (normally) very reasonable take is that Stefanski has always done his best work when the team had no expectations, and I'm pretty sure that's where we're at right now. It's when we're poised to take the next step that he tends to have issues.

Average players make great coaches.

I will simplify my take which is not yours. Great players create great coaches. Not players/coaches as selfsame.

We seem to want to pick at this. Here is the insight I was hoping others might want to consider. If some want to call Coach of the Year greatness by their metric, what players put his reputation there. I do not see it; others do.

Thanks, Lampdogg. I wasn't offering it as an absolute truth. Each contributes to success and rep. Name the legends and their players come to light. I can't see Ski there yet.

Two sensible responses.

Finally we’re getting somewhere. Stefanski isn’t a bad HC (that’s not what we’re discussing) but the real question is if he’s good enough to take the Browns to the next level?
Judging from the last five seasons results the answer is maybe, leaning towards maybe not. Like it or not that’s where we are atm. Whenever his team has taken a step forward it often follows with two step back. Not only results wise but also how we improve our roster or develop talents.

Yesterday against the Broncos he came up against a very experienced and competent HC and in the end that made the difference. Yes Winston is mostly responsible but a HC can’t let his team drive in 100mph all the time when the speed limit is 60. Sooner or later you will end up outside the road.

Winston had to throw monster balls to keep us alive and kudos to him for succeeding so long but in the end its to dangerous to throw the ball medium or long on every snap.
Sean Payton’s experience was the difference between going gung ho or playing a little bit more conservative.

Kevin knew what kind of QB he had and maybe shorter throws and using our RBs had been a better alternative later in the game.

I took it at face value but after looking back it's quite possible you could be right.

Thanks for helping to clear that up Bard.

I don't think yesterday's game is the strongest evidence for or against KS. We exceeded expectations by being in a position to win. Winston (backup) and Dorsey (interim(?) playcaller) with a banged up Oline and limited running game going against one of the stronger defenses in the league had to go balls-to-the-wall to keep up with a very strong and balanced Denver team.

There's really nothing Stefanski can do about Winston throwing picks. But this O didn't quit on Stefanski and it didn't quit on Winston. Without the two pick sixes the Browns D gave up 27 points. Not the greatest performance but I don't think anyone can make a strong argument this team is laying down for anyone.

IMO... if we're going to get on anyone's case it should be the defense. They were supposed to be the strength of this team. They didn't have a bad game, but if they want to be considered as good as they want everyone to believe, they gotta make those critical stops. Offense pulled ahead at the end of the game, and on the ensuing drive Denver was able to move it methodically down the field. The only thing the D can hang its hat on on that drive was they had some good stops vs the run, but a rookie QB was taking whatever he wanted from them.

We all know what happened after that, but IMO the INTs overshadows a bigger issue with this team.

Stefanski is pretty hands-off with the defense and (IMO) their issues do NOT stem from them throwing in the towel (they are playing hard).

Only telling your QB what to do or not seems like a good strategy, or maybe not. Maybe you should at least read my post before commenting.

An experienced HC and OC tries to tailor made their play calling to minimize their QBs weaknesses and maximize their strengths. Especially at the end of the game when the adrenaline is high and it’s easy to lose coolness. Payton had to deal with a rookie and Stefanski with a well known throw happy QB. Both had their cards in their hands.

When the game was tight and the Browns had the lead they should in my opinion have started to make more conservative play calls. More short throws, used theue running backs to shortened the distance on 2nd annd 3rd downs with less risk of having to taking long throws. Jameis Winston had been excellent so far so around 4Q was the right time to slow the game down and let the defense take some of the burden.

There’s no guarantee the outcome had become different but from my perspective it’s a bad strategy to let a well known chancer like Winston continue to make long risky throws when every mistake can cost you the game.

When did the Browns have the ball with the lead?

By my recollection, the Browns had the ball with the lead one time, and it was early in the game (1st quarter?).

j/c:

Odell Beckham Jr., Dolphins agree to part ways

https://sports.yahoo.com/odell-beckham-jr-dolphins-agree-to-part-ways-131413291.html

We gotta ge .........

Oh never mind.

That title absolutely blows my mind.

He got waived. He had little, if any, say in the matter. Next thing they try to say is that when he clears waivers he'll have come to an agreement with every other team in the league to allow him to be a FA.

This is funny: during our back and forth over Allen (and Pit's commentary about Smith and Darnold), I got into the same deep thought you mentioned in the other thread.

While pondering the chance that maybe Allen could have failed here, I looked down that 2018 and 2019 roster and was reminded of OBJ.

That prompted a quick "I wonder what that dude is doing, I haven't heard that name in a while".

When I saw the stats I said "ohhhh, that's not gonna last much longer"... Less than 24 hours later... 🤣

According to the NFL payout statistics, the Browns are paying out cash like everyone on the team is a star - are you saying they are not?

This phenomenon predates AB and KS by quite a bit.

One of the best arguments I've heard for MVP.

Amen.

I believe Jackson will win because of those gaudy numbers though.

That will bother Josh, until February 9th, when he wins a different MVP.