DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2024 NFL Season Looking Back: Broncos 41 Browns 32 Post Game Thoughts

- Winston is still the same guy that threw 30 TDs and 30 INTs in a single season. However, he makes the Browns a watchable product.

Enjoy some more Swenson's during your time here, Jameis.

Live by the sword; die by the sword! You can't expect to win if you have to throw near-60 attempts. Where was our running game in the game plan?

This game

... is why Winston is a backup.

... is why Watson should never see a field again.

... is why we don't need a rebuild.

... is why Stefasnki needs to be the head coach of the Browns.

You cannot trust Jameis throwing 60 times... we have talent on this team but there are glaring holes.. LT and DB and LB are a must pickup or draft... Winston is a good backup, not a starter.. Jerry Juedy balled out and has looked good with Winston playing QB. There are others players that we need to eval and make some decisions on

I love Winston the person. I really wish I loved Winston the player.

It’s a scorpion and frog deal with him. You’d best not fool yourself into thinking he’s anything but what he is. He’s a slinger but he’s always been a slinger-to-the-other-team player. With him at the helm you’ll always look dangerous to score at any time and dangerous to throw a pick 6 at any time.

I’m not sure why went so light with Chubb. Maybe we just want to save him for next year. Which is wise, tbh. But we could have won this one. I chalked it up as an almost guaranteed loss before the game so I’m not too broken up.

Next week, I want to win. I want to hurt Pitt and Balt. I want them limping into the postseason.

Live by Winston, die by Winston

Winston is fun to watch except for 2-3 plays.

A few things we have learned since Winston has taken over.

* If there was any question, Watson is done.

* Dorsey and his O are keepers. It's been like night and day since Winston took over.

* Be that it may still be early in his return, Nick Chubb isn't the same guy. No doubt that we will keep him next year, but we need to draft a back fairly early...maybe 3rd round to be the eventual replacement. Ford is a decent back, but he isn't going to be the bell cow.

* Judy and Moore are showing what we had hoped to see. Woods looked good with his chances...we are better at receiver than many thought.

* Winston may not be the long term future, but he is good enough to be a bridge for a few years. I wouldn't draft a QB in round one, but I would look seriously at round two. Unless you are in a position to get a Arch Manning type qb, 1st round QBs are a big risk, 50/50 at best. I'd keep drafting a QB in round 2 until we found the right guy. I think the odds of getting a good QB increase over a 1st round pick, and the loss to the roster isn't as great if the 2nd rounder doesn't work out. IMO you don't have to have a great QB, you just need a good QB.

* We have learned that Diabate is a pretty solid player.

Post game thoughts:
*I don't care how many passing yards Winston had, his two pick 6's lost the game.

*Chubb hasn't been the same since being injured.

*Why can't the Browns find a QB in the draft like Nix or Daniels?

* Might as well tank the rest of the season and try to get the #1 overall pick.

Fun Game to watch , however where was our D , where is our running game and I am not sold on Njoku . He drops alot of balls . I feel like with Njoku we fall in love with his potential and not so much his production .

Because there was also Caleb Williams, Drake Maye, Michael Penix, and J.J. McCarthy in the draft class.

Last year, Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Anthony Richardson, and Will Levis were picked. - none of them look great this year.

IN 2022

Kenny Pickett. - we know what happened to him.

the success rate of a 1st round draft pick is like 20-25%



https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/4/11/24103804/how-successful-are-quarterbacks-drafted-in-round-1

Round 1 QBs
2010

No. 1 — Sam Bradford (St. Louis Rams)
No. 25 — Tim Tebow (Denver Broncos)

Future Hall of Famers: 0
Franchise QBs: 0
Solid starters: 0
Low-end pro careers: 1
Disappointments: 1

2011

No. 1 — Cam Newton (Carolina Panthers)
No. 8 — Jake Locker (Tennessee Titans)
No. 10 — Blaine Gabbert (Jacksonville Jaguars)
No. 12 — Christian Ponder (Minnesota Vikings)

Future Hall of Famers: 0
Franchise QBs: 1
Solid starters: 0
Low-end pro careers: 0
Disappointments: 3

2012

No. 1 — Andrew Luck (Indianapolis Colts)
No. 2 — Robert Griffin (Washington Redskins)
No. 8 — Ryan Tannehill (Miami Dolphins)
No. 22 — Brandon Weeden (Cleveland Browns)

Future Hall of Famers: 0
Franchise QBs: 1
Solid starters: 1
Low-end pro careers: 0
Disappointments: 2

2013

No. 16 — EJ Manuel (Buffalo Bills)

Future Hall of Famers: 0
Franchise QBs: 0
Solid starters: 0
Low-end pro careers: 0
Disappointments: 1

2014

No. 3 — Blake Bortles (Jacksonville Jaguars)
No. 22 — Johnny Manziel (Cleveland Browns)
No. 32 — Teddy Bridgewater (Minnesota Vikings)

Future Hall of Famers: 0
Franchise QBs: 0
Solid starters: 0
Low-end pro careers: 1
Disappointments: 2

2015

No. 1 — Jameis Winston (Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
No. 2 — Marcus Mariota (Tennessee Titans)

Future Hall of Famers: 0
Franchise QBs: 0
Solid starters: 0
Low-end pro careers: 2
Disappointments: 0

2016

No. 1 — Jared Goff (Los Angeles Rams)
No. 2 — Carson Wentz (Philadelphia Eagles)
No. 26 — Paxton Lynch (Denver Broncos)

Future Hall of Famers: 0
Franchise QBs: 0
Solid starters: 1
Low-end pro careers: 1
Disappointments: 1

2017

No. 2 — Mitchell Trubisky (Chicago Bears)
No. 10 — Patrick Mahomes (Kansas City Chiefs)
No. 12 — DeShaun Watson (Houston Texans)

Future Hall of Famers: 1
Franchise QBs:
Solid starters: 1
Low-end pro careers: 0
Disappointments: 1

2018

No. 1 — Baker Mayfield (Cleveland Browns)
No. 3 — Sam Darnold (New York Jets)
No. 7 — Josh Allen (Buffalo Bills)
No. 10 — Josh Rosen (Arizona Cardinals)
No. 32 — Lamar Jackson (Baltimore Ravens)

Future Hall of Famers: 2
Franchise QBs:
Solid starters: 0
Low-end pro careers: 1
Disappointments: 2

2019

No. 1 — Kyler Murray (Arizona Cardinals)
No. 6 — Daniel Jones (New York Giants)
No. 15 — Dwayne Haskins (Washington)

Future Hall of Famers: 0
Franchise QBs: 0
Solid starters: 2
Low-end pro careers: 0
Disappointments: 1

2020

No. 1 — Joe Burrow (Cincinnati Bengals)
No. 5 — Tua Tagovailoa (Miami Dolphins)
No. 6 — Justin Herbert (Los Angeles Chargers)
No. 26 — Jordan Love (Green Bay Packers)

Future Hall of Famers: 0
Franchise QBs: 4
Solid starters: 0
Low-end pro careers: 0
Disappointments: 0

2021

No. 1 — Trevor Lawrence (Jacksonville Jaguars)
No. 2 — Zach Wilson (New York Jets)
No. 3 — Trey Lance (San Francisco 49ers)
No. 11 — Justin Fields (Chicago Bears)
No. 15 — Mac Jones (New England Patriots)

Future Hall of Famers: 0
Franchise QBs: 0
Solid starters: 1
Low-end pro careers: 1
Disappointments: 3

2022

No. 20 — Kenny Pickett (Pittsburgh Steelers)

Future Hall of Famers: 0
Franchise QBs: 0
Solid starters: 0
Low-end pro careers: 0
Disappointments: 1

2023

No. 1 — Bryce Young (Carolina Panthers)
No. 2 — C.J. Stroud (Houston Texans)
No. 4 — Anthony Richardson (Indianapolis Colts)

Future Hall of Famers: 0
Franchise QBs: 1
Solid starters: 0
Low-end pro careers: 0
Disappointments: 0
Incomplete: 2

Totals
Future Hall of Famers: 3
Franchise QBs: 7
Solid starters: 6
Low-end pro careers: 7
Disappointments: 18
Incomplete: 2

That’s 16 out of 43 drafted quarterbacks currently in the ‘solid starter’ or above category, a hit rate of 37.2%. If you are looking for Hall of Fame or absolute franchise quarterback as your standard, that’s 10 of 43, or 23.3%.

As someone who's watched alot of Winston being in the tampa market, he's still the same guy, he can't throw with touch, and he is missing alot between the ears in decision making, sometimes he gets away with it and sometimes he don't, its not a matter of if he's going to throw a pick, its a matter of how devastating its going to be. Last night they were all devastating at the worst possible time, and the 2 pick 6's were just brutal, that said, the defense lost the game.. yeah winston's picks killed us but if defense wasn';t giving up a score every possession, we probably could have involved the run game more. We have very little talent on the defensive side. We have to get better on the backend and LB, ward needs to retire and emerson and newsome need to be upgraded and it shouldn't take much to do that.

Dickerson should be the first firing in the offseason, this guy has completely undid everything Callahan had in place. Our WR are serviceable, don't know that we have a true #1 yet, we def need an upgrade at RB and TE, chubb i think unfortunately is done, he doesn't have the cutback ability that made him so good and he's not exploding through the holes like before, even if he comes back next year he's going to be 30 this time next year, all signs point to him having to call it a career. We need a legit reliable TE target, Njoku is the same guy since being drafted, looks the part but dude's hands are horrible, don't get me started on his "blocking" I said in gameday he's basically Braylon, he'll make the impossible catch and then drop the wide open, hit him in the hands for the first down. TE has to be a reliable outlet for the QB, thats not him. The more I watch I'm feeling like KS/Dorsey combo is working well. I think they are getting the most out of the "talent" they've been given, I still think lack of talent is the biggest issue on this team and I think Berry/Depo still need to be replaced. We have the most expensive roster in NFL with some big money coming due next year.

All in all it was an entertaining shootout but long term it was better that we lost

While what you post is true, the success rate of first round QB's are higher than any other round. And it's not even close. That's the exact reason why so many teams in need of a QB tend to draft them so high. I'm not trying top promote the Browns draft a QB in round 1 this year. I'm saying even with the odds of success in round 1 of the draft when drafting a QB, once you drop to round 2 and beyond, your odds drop like a rock.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone saying the pick-6's probably cost us the game, but it would be nice to have a strong defense that can be counted on to get the critical stop late in the game.

Jameis Winston is what he is... we basically got the full Jameis experience in a game.

two things really stood out to me as to why we lost:

we simply can't run it well enough

our secondary is really bad right now

I think the biggest issue with First round QB's not panning out have to do with 2 things, Colleges not running NFL systems and getting rushed into service with a ton of pressure to save a franchise. Sometimes going to a wrong team ruins the chance to be successful, Everyone points to the Baker/Allen comparison, Baker was much more NFL ready than Allen, Allen went to a better program in Buffalo and was given tons of support, better coaching and time to figure it out.. The first few years Baker was by far the better QB, Allen then figured it out and he is what he is now, Baker got saddled with an impatient coaching staff, bounced around until he found a home, now both in stable environments with good weapons around, Baker is showing he is still a better QB than Allen, we will see if it persists, but nobody sane would argue we would be better off with Baker and the draft picks than we are right now. Thats the reason bridge QB's exist, but you need a bridge QB that understands that's his role, we brought Tyrod in for Baker but Tyrod wanted no part of doing that, he wanted to start. What sucks is there isn't a single QB worth a 3rd round pick let alone a 1st round in this draft. I think we run it back with Winston/Watson and look for another possible project to replace DTR. Use the draft to fill in some gaping holes so when we do have to draft one they atleast have a chance. Especially oline/rb

Tyrod didn't work out because Baker (as a rookie) significantly outplayed him. After the Jets game, there was no looking back (for Tyrod).

Other than that, I think your post is spot on.


Even though QB is our main issue, we need to invest more into Oline and RB (and probably WR) if our next QB investment is coming from the draft.

Jameis is Jameis and although entertaining, and far better than Watson, is not a long term solution.

The Browns can't win by spotting the other team 14 points with 2 pick -6's. That is not just the Browns, it is any team in the NFL.

Glad to see Jeudy and Moore have decent games. Njoku is prone to drops. Chubb is not at 100 percent, but I anticipated that.

The real difference in the game was #15 for Denver and #65 for the Browns. Ifedi had a rough day to say the least.

I agree with most of what is being said about JW. I have no problem if we keep him until we can find a young QB with the potential to be our franchise QB, whenever that may be. On a sidenote if JW had connected with Jeudy on that long pass play he would have had the single game passing yards record which is 554 yards by Norn Van Brocklin set in 1951. Think about that for a minute!

I don't think there is any FA QB that would be better than JW so we should probably keep him here next year. Another point to consider is he is a leader, and his teammates respect him, like him and want to play for him. That doesn't seem to be the case with DW.

Darnold.

That's the exact same thing many of us were saying about Flacco last year. Hopefully this FO will wake up after that huge mistake. They didn't even make him an offer to keep him here and he helped lead the Browns to the playoffs. I'm not so sure I have the confidence in this group not to make the same mistake yet again.

I understand about Darnold but keeping JW would be a seamless move. He knows the system his teammates and he’s respected here. Sounds like a no brainer to me.

Sounds like Joe Flacco to me.

Exact same situation. Let’s see if our FO learned anything from it.

At this point we can only hope.

Even if he leaves Minnesota and he might, could we afford him without gutting the roster?

one thing that's noticeable: our WR corp is not a weak spot, as it appeared with Watson

I still think we draft someone to play opposite Jeudy, but having Tillman/Jeudy/Moore isn't an awful group

I don't get the hate towards Chubb this season...look at Saquon, he shredded his knee back in 2020, his 2021 season numbers were down. Now look at him. We need to put resources into our OL

we have a lot of positions that could be drafted in the first few rounds IMO: OT, WR, RB, DE ... and of course QB

the difference I think this is the second major injury to the same knee, plus he's going to be 30, its not a good combo. I don't think its hate, just reality, I can't think anyone wouldn't want chubb regardless, as far as I'm concerned chubb should be a brown as long as he wants to be. I just think its time to start looking for his replacement.

Lol yeah that too, but I was more referring to Tyrod wasn't coming here to be a bridge, he was coming here to start, when he got hurt that was it, baker came in and broke the rookie TD record in 13 games. no turning back at that point. I agree, I think without an oline and legit running game, no QB is going to come in and do well. I think one thing to find out is, is it the personnel or the coaching, because this is basically the exact same line that was destroying defenses under callahan, now all of sudden they've gone away from ZBS and have whatever this atrocity that dickerson is coaching. I'm secretly hoping callahan's son is 1 and done in TN, dude is way out of his depth there. Then we can lure Bill back and fix this.

No hating. Barkley was 23 in 2020. Chubb was 27 when he was injured last year. I'm sure he will gain some speed next year, however the question is will it be enough to make a difference. We all are rooting for him, but they need to draft his replacement this year.

Yeah, I think it's prudent to assume Chubb can be a partial guy, but not a bell cow. He's going to be better next season ... but we still need another guy

The game was fun to watch. I really did not expect the Browns to be competitive in Denver given our history there. Just beat Pittsburgh and I'm good for the year. As far as finding our QB, I really subscribe to the draft philosophy of picking the best available players or be prepared to play against them. For example, if the Browns had the #1 pick next year, there is NO way you take a QB at #1. I think even the casual observer would agree. We have to stop forcing the QB draft pick. We have A LOT of needs to fill so stockpiling TALENT is the better play going forward. It's going to be a couple years since we have to deal with the Watson contract. It sucks but it's the reality of life right now.

Chubb injury situation aside, I think this philosophy (steady, two back rotations) is something that many teams are aiming for, and maybe even the Browns. The NFL is reactionary and maybe what the Lions have done with Gibbs and Montgomery has intrigued some teams. The Cardinals just extended Connor while drafting Benson last year. It might also help keep a position that has a shorter shelf-life last a little longer while diminishing the overall cost to retain a player due to overall usage, and as a result, production if lower based on snap count.

There is the age difference between the two at the time of their injuries as well as this being the second time Chubb had such a major injury on that same knee. But I'm going with the popular theme of the responses. I don't think it has anything to do with hate at all. If there's a Browns player that fans have fallen in love with it would be Chubb.

I think it's far more a question of concern as to whether he can come back to be the RB he once was. I can't think of a single poster who would not want that to be a reality but there are certainly reasons to question whether than can happen.