DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk 2025 NFL Draft Draft

We must be watching different games. Out of structure highlights are Ward's wheelhouse. Quick and anticipation aren't the words I'd use to describe his game. His time to throw was one of the slower ones in all of college football (particularly once he entered ACC play and started getting pressured.)

Box scores don't look similar on the ground, but they're both big game hunters. Miami's receivers just got open, so Ward didn't have to run. That and his scrambling is more beat up Browns Watson than young, healthy Watson. So I guess that's more the Watson he reminded me of stylistically.

Don't get me wrong, Ward can uncork some great throws, but highlights and box scores don't tell the whole story. It's the other 95% of the time (non-highlights) that concerns me somewhat.

I guess I just see more Zach Wilson than Jayden Daniels. Maybe Sam Darnold. Has some tools, but looks like it could take some time for it all to come together to me.

I need to dig more, but I didn't see what you say you did from what I've watched so far.

Maybe we're both seeing what we "want"/expect to see.

Anybody else think we might actually trade up in the draft so we can make sure we get the Qb we want?

Nope. Nobody. We have the #2, we won't be trading up to #1 for a QB that should be going mid-first round.

You wouldn't
I wouldn't
Most, if not all of us, on DTers wouldn't

I worry that Berry would

Nah. I wouldn't worry about that at all.

Could be!

Beau and Nathan actually discussed this on CBD today. Zegura mentioned the last time the Browns had the #2 pick in the draft the Browns were prepared to trade up to #1 to make sure they landed Goff. Instead, the Rams leapfrogged the Browns, and traded for the #1 overall pick landing Goff. The Titans were the team with the #1 at that time though they had just drafted Mariota the year prior.

Personally, I have little faith in Berry's ability to evaluate talent and would love to have to change my mind on that opinion. I do not see him trading up with the Titans and giving up even more draft capital to acquire the #1 pick. Also, the Titans need a QB this time around.

This may have been addressed already, but will we move one spot up and pick 1st in the 2nd round, and the team with the first pick in round one go to 3rd in the 2nd etc?

I'm almost positive that's still the way it works. As long as the teams were tied with the same record and draft slots were determined by tie-breakers.

Having the first pick in the second gives off a full 20 hours to entertain trades.

Thanks. I agree; the first pick in the 2nd round is fun.

Still a few players I'm hoping will declare.

Drew Allar

Dillion Gabriel

Cam Skattebo

Hey anything is possible, would put an interesting take on the draft.

Just because they say they are returning back to school isn't 100%

Allar being 6'5 and from Medina and growing up a Browns fan.

Could the possibility of being drafted by the team he loves be a factor in him changing his mind ?

It's interesting to me at least.

I forgot to mention Will Howard

Among those possibilities.

I see Milroe as a bargain basement Aaron Rodgers. Not quite as far along in his development as Rodgers was. But in one way quite similar. He will need time to be ready as a true NFL QB if his development ever comes to fruition.

Much like the situation with Rodgers I think a team who has an older franchise QB that they plan not to extend a contract to after a couple of seasons left oh his current contract, they have the luxury of allowing him to sit back and develop. Learning from the crafty veteran while the team continues to win. That's straight from the Green Bay playbook. I don't see the Browns or any other QB needy team filling that description.

In such cases they need a QB who will be ready now or very soon.

Just a thought about Milroe. If he lasts until the 3rd round or so does anyone think it would be a good idea to draft him and then give him the time to develop especially if we drop down and acquire more picks? Even if we take a QB at #2 we could still draft him like Washington did with Kirk Cousins when they drafted RG3. If they both develop you can always trade one later on. Naturally we would still have to sign a vet for the next season or2.

That sounds great as long as Cousin's hasn't fallen off the proverbial cliff as it appears he very well may have.

I'd rather go Fields-Milroe. Just think it's a more natural transition. Think our offense would benefit from the threat of QB run. Cousins wasn't the most mobile before the Achilles injury and I'm guessing at his age he's unlikely to get back to where he was. Watching an "old" guy that's a shell of his former self doesn't really scream hope for the future to me. I'd also just like to see Fields with an OC that isn't awful.

Kicking around the idea of trade back, draft Warren, trade up take Milroe at the backend of round 1. Two TE sets with Warren and Njoku let Kevin run what he did best. Can also help the tackles with them if needed. Not needing to trade up for Milroe would be great, too.

Stretch defenses horizontally with bootlegs, rollouts and create running lanes (and bigger passing windows.)

Don't necessarily even need Milroe. Fields is still pretty young.

Warren, Conerly with Fields at QB sounds pretty good to me. Maybe get some more ammo for next year with the trade back in case Fields doesn't work out. Hope the Raiders or Giants really want Ward or Sanders. Allar going back to school might actually be good for us if he sticks with that. Give those two teams FOMO.

A lot of the Fields interest is in getting the running game back going. Also wonder about the OL's ability to protect Cousins. Having to worry about keeping contain on the QB can be helpful for slowing the rush.

I just feel like Fields has more upside. And the fanbase is likely to give him more rope than Cousins. If Cousins struggles early, it could get ugly quick.

Maybe throw a "Dart" in round 3.

There isn't anyone we are going to get from the FA market that won't come with significant warts. That said, I hope we don't pursue Fields at all except as possible a veteran backup. Not only does Fields not (IMO) fit the mold of a "KS-QB", he also really hasn't been all that good, period. At least with Cousins you can hope he brings the performance that he had in Minny.

The mind doesn't forget how to play but at some pointing the body can't execute what the mind knows it should do. I think we simply see this differently. I'm fully on board with a young QB having the ability to develop and mature.

But Cousins was doing pretty well before he fell off the cliff. So it wasn't the coaching. It wasn't the scheme. It wasn't the players on the roster. He just suddenly lost it.

Now for me I see it highly possible that a young QB with some positive skills can be developed. I find it much harder to believe that a 13 year veteran can reach back in time and become the same player he used to be.

I really don't see Kevin Stefanski being interested in either Sanders or Ward. I don't believe he will want to trust his fate next year in a rookie QB. Especially, when neither really fit his scheme. The fact that the Browns just hired a coach that learned from Callahan seems to point to the fact he wants to get back to his style of offense. I think he will be looking for a QB in the mold of a Joe Flacco but younger.

I don't see this happening but if the Vikings allow Sam Darnold to hit the free agent market Berry could draw up 1 of his contracts that is low $ in year 1 when Watson's contract hits hardest. But with Watson more than likely missing entire 2025 season the Browns should get a 44 million of cap space back from their insurance claim and can put together a 3-to-4-year deal that is competitive with most teams.

If the Vikings resign Darnold or franchise him they will probably test the waters with Minnesota to see if JJ McCarthy is available. Even though the Vikings will probably spend quite a bit of money on Sam Darnold they will more than likely want to hold on to McCarthy at least another year to see if Darnold is more than a one hit wonder.

Kirk Cousins would then become the next best option. At least as a bridge QB. Cousins can be successful as a Browns QB. If Winston can beat 2 playoff teams at home and throw for 500 yards on the road at another playoff team a competent QB could get this team back into the playoffs.

If They cannot get Cousins, then Daniel Jones will probably be their next option. In the Browns game earlier this past season he played what had to his best football in the 1st half vs the Browns. I am sure Stefanski took note of that.

In the draft I do think they will take a QB but the only way it will be in the first round is if Drew Allar comes out and blows everyone away at the combine with his arm. Actually, he has said he is coming back to Penn State next year but since he had a great game vs Boise State there has been buzz about him. If he puts together a great game vs Notre Dame and then if they win vs Ohio or Texas, his stock may rise fast.

If no 1st round QB's Carson Beck, Kyle McCord, and Will Howard could become development options.

What is a "KS-QB?" What can't Fields do, that a "KS-QB" can? I think he can do the things a KS-QB needs, plus has the added athleticism angle.

What did the greatest QB prospect ever (Caleb Williams-some hyperbole) do in Chicago with better receivers? Williams got sacked 68 times because the offense was not good (Fields sacked 55 times in his highest season.)

There's something to be said for coaching. Fields has gotten a rather lousy series of it in the league. Luke Getsy lasted less than a year in Vegas after getting fired after his second year with Fields.

Look, I know I'm hoping for a Sam Darnold right time, right place improvement. But I think it's more of a low risk, high reward move than Cousins. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Fields has played, effectively, on a cheap 1 year deal. He's a decade younger than Cousins. I think the cheap Cousins add is a pipe dream. He's always felt strongly about his value. He went to Atlanta because Minnesota wasn't willing to commit long term. I just don't see us doing that with Watson still on the books, and Cousins with age/health questions.

If you put Fields, the prospect, in this draft, he's the first overall pick. It didn't work out that way in Chicago, but until 2023 his top WR was Darnell Mooney, who missed a chunk of '22. DJ Moore actually had his best year in the NFL with Fields in 2023. The rest of that O surrounding Fields was a mess. He got used to thinking like he had to do everything himself before that. Probably because he pretty much had nobody good to throw to, and the scheme/execution was pitiful.

Cousins had Justin Jefferson in Minnesota. Before him (2019) he had Diggs and Thielen. I think environment has played a role in their comparative success. Put Cousins in Chicago throwing to Chase Claypool and Fields throwing to Jefferson in Minnesota and I'm guessing the results look a lot different.

We're not going to get what either did on either team anyway. We're going to see what someone can do with this team. Fields would seem to at least have the potential for longevity and growth. Cousins is a short term bandaid that might already be falling apart and will likely be on the decline.

I believe Arthur Smith uses the wide zone blocking scheme in Pittsburgh. Fields has done well under this scheme, but he could not beat Russell Williams for the starting position.

I would not go all in on Fields, but I would follow Pittsburgh's lead and let him compete against another veteran.

Derek Carr? I haven't seen much of him lately. Could Stefanski make it work? I thought Carr played decently in the West Coast offense. I by no means am campaigning for Carr just an alternative to Cousins.

In the draft, I like the thought of either Carson Beck or Jaxson Dart as quarterback.

What I mean by a "KS-QB" is a guy that is good at seeing and processing quickly and then simply executing within the offense. Processing what the defense is doing during a play, seeing who is the open guy, and then throwing on time. This person doesn't necessarily need the biggest arm or the athleticism (though those are obviously desirable attributes) more than they need a strong understanding of what their "job" is on each play.

KS's offense, overall, tends to do a really good job of getting WRs open, but it's still up to the QB to identify who the pass should go to and then hit that receiver with the ball when he's supposed to.


Baker, when he was struggling, was generally having trouble with the "on-time" part of the equation. He would hesitate and by the time he'd throw the ball the window was already closing. Flacco (and even Brissett), when the offense was humming, really weren't doing anything spectacular... just executing within the offense and diagnosing the defense well.

I agree with this and probably should've said so when I was talking about Fields, specifically.

I'm much more on board with Bull's idea of getting Fields and putting a rookie behind him. I agree with him that if Fields or Caleb Williams had the weapons and the coaching a young QB needs in Chicago we would have seen much different results. There's much more potential for good with a young QB that has shown promise than with an aging veteran on his way down.

I don't really disagree with anything you said with the exception of one caveat'. "does whatever is necessary to get him."

I've witnessed the consequences of exactly what that can mean and cost. There should always be limitations and parameters as to exactly what that means.

If the Vikings believe they are close to a super bowl with Sam Darnold and only need a shutdown corner (Travis Hunter) a more explosive pass rush (Abdual Carter) a run stuffer (Mason Graham) another offensive weapon (TMAC) they may trade JJ for swapping 1st round picks. Browns could grab the QB JJ McCarthy with the trade down and get another piece toward end of 1st round.

Was reading yesterday where one of the "Talking Heads" said he thought Minnesota wanted at least a top 5 pick in this coming draft to even consider moving JJ. Minnesota traded a 4th and a 5th last year just to move from #10 to #9 to get McCarthy.

I have a hard time understanding why Minnesota is under any pressure at all to deal either of their QBs. If Darnold wants big-boy money after his big year, then that's a different story but I haven't heard anything of the sort.

Add: Their defense isn't bad but is kinda middle-or-the-road. They are supposedly good at stopping the run but not so great vs the pass. If they get torched by a QB in the playoffs, I could see them hungry to wheel and deal for a good corner.

Even if they sign Darnold to a large contract they have JJ at rookie scale. There's no pressure on them to do anything. That's why I'm very mindful as to what the asking price will be for JJ. I can't imagine other teams in need of a QB aren't also considering this option so not only may the initial asking price be high but that price could even be driven upward of there ends up being competition for JJ.