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I agree with all of that.

I just have a real hard time understanding how a group of people so hell bent on analytics created a readout that said "Go!" with so many unqualified variables. It's one of the things that stumps me the most.

It's like every possible downside was swept under the rug in a situation with the very highest of upsides along with the very lowest of downsides. The latter being the very thing this FO seemed so diligent in avoiding since Paul D donned the robe.

And one of those records he has set is that between January 23, 2023 and January 23, 2025, Baker Mayfield has thrown the most interceptions by a quarterback, with 26 interceptions.

Yep. "He is who who thought he was". Gunslinger mentality won't and probably shouldn't go away. He'll likely get better over time, but "gunslinger" has it's consequences. I'd still take him over most QBs in the league. And I'll say it again: Baker Mayfield was damn near the perfect QB to lead a team and a fanbase like Cleveland.

I'm certainly not trying to attack Baker as a QB. I love the kids moxie and he knows how to rally his team mates. He's far better than anything we've had since. I'm just trying to add some balance to the picture. There's a lot of good in Baker as a QB. There is also some baggage that comes along with it.

Nothing like watson baggage but still.

I know, bro, we made the wrong choice on draft day. Shoulda stuck with it though, that much is clear. Baker in '23 with that defense? I'll stop short of theatrical fanboy fantasies, but they may have come true.

I had that lowly, lowly realization of how hard this is during the first week of the playoffs. Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Jackson -- all in the playoffs. The one QB missing from that list? The one QB the experts said was most "NFL ready"?

Josh Rosen -- bagging groceries.

I'm no better than this FO at projecting QB's transitioning into the NFL. But then neither are the talking heads we see on TV, the internet or in print. If they were thay would have high paying jobs as talent evaluators in the NFL or even a GM job.

But we saw how that worked out when the Raiders hired Mayock as their GM. It was a result of an NFL owner buying into the sports media hype.

THAT deserved to be made fun of much more than it was.

We have trouble drafting in the 1st round at other positions too not just QB's. DL, CB's and WR come to mind. There are probably others too.

The main issue I see with the Cleveland Browns and their selection of QB's is that they never build their offense to a players skill set. It's the same thing with every draft pick, change the way that they play. I could go down the list but let's not kid ourselves, the current Browns HC would never allow an Allen to run the way he does or a Jackson to run and learn how to throw at the NFL level over 7 seasons. You don't draft a gunslinger and try to change him. You dont draft a running QB and dont set up specific running plays for the player making him ad lib all the time. You don't draft or acquire a QB that never plays under center and tell him he will now because that's the offense you run aka play action - CLEVELAND DOES.

Expanding that players skill set is the job of the coaches, changing them from their skill set is counterproductive. HC's in PHI, WAS, KCC, GBP, SFO, BUF, and HOU have built their offenses around the skill set of their QB's and have continued to expand and perfect those skill sets.

Of the Browns draft choices, scouting reports highlight some issues with coming to Cleveland and their current offensive plan the Browns run:

Jalen Milroe: https://www.the33rdteam.com/jalen-milroe-2025-nfl-draft-scouting-report

Milroe’s uncoachable talent serves as the centerpiece of his NFL Draft resume. His ability to shred defenses with his legs, change the numbers in the run game as a quarterback threat, and his ability to access all levels of the field are potential solutions to the problems coaches must solve on a weekly basis when game planning for an opponent. And from that perspective, Milroe is an attractive option. As a matter of fact, he is the most physically talented quarterback in this year’s class.

However, the refinement of those abilities offers hurdles and uncertainties — making his valuation as a player a challenging one to unwrap and putting extra importance into the situation he ultimately lands in if he is to succeed as an NFL starter.

Cameron Ward: https://www.the33rdteam.com/cameron-ward-2025-nfl-draft-scouting-report/
Pro Comparison: Jameis Winston

Ward has a beautiful mind for the game. His ability to identify aggressive windows is matched only by his willingness to push the physical limits of his skill set to create big plays up and down the field. And in the game of developing quarterbacks, you’d much rather have to find a way to reel someone in than have them try to find their edge — and Ward’s edge is bold and, many times, brilliant.

It leads to some high-variance outcomes as a passer that will be frustrating to live with and work out of his system. However, Ward is the kind of unique passer who is still behind many of his colleagues thanks to his modest passing career in high school.

In all, Ward has a powerful and dynamic arm, good but not great accuracy, a sudden release, sufficient mobility, and the bravado necessary to lead. His NFL coaches will be charged with taming some of his wildest tendencies to ensure his impact starter qualities can shine without being canceled out by his own ambition.

Shedeur Sanders: https://www.the33rdteam.com/shedeur-sanders-2025-nfl-draft-scouting-report/
Pro Comparison: Andy Dalton

Sanders illustrates some nifty ball handling skills, showcasing the ability to sell jet touch passes or, alternatively, shovel the ball out to a slide across the formation if under duress and looking to quickly get an eligible the ball without an orthodox throw.

With that said, he’s generally more effective without play-action passing. Some of this is compounded by the Colorado running game and a lack of consistency in this phase of the program’s offense. But Sanders has been a more consistent and impactful passer when afforded the opportunity to keep his eyes on the defense post-snap as compared to having to diagnose a changing picture post-snap by turning his back to the defense and then needing to re-acclimate his landmarks.

Teams that are less reliant on play-action and allow the quarterback to process are a better immediate fit — although there’s reason to believe Sanders could thrive with a heavier focus on play-action in time.

Jaxson Dart: https://www.the33rdteam.com/jaxson-dart-2025-nfl-draft-scouting-report/
Pro Comparison: Jarrett Stidham

Syncing Dart’s footwork to his route depth with more consistency could help him with some of the general accuracy he illustrates and, at times, has issues with. He has the arm talent to throw off-platform, but Dart does not do himself any favors with his feet. The trickle-down effect leaves him out of position to progress through progressions that don’t flow directly into his initial line of sight and prompt him into some disappointing misses on open throws. He’s missed some layups that should set off alarm bells for evaluators.

I worry that if Dart is put in a position to play early, he will be drinking through a firehose. Life will be dramatically different than what Ole Miss has afforded him during the past three seasons, and he will need significant leaps in the precision of his feet and his decision-making pre and post-snap to put all of his physical gifts to good use.

A long-term developmental quarterback in a balanced offense that embraces play-action passing at an above-average clip.

Will Howard: https://www.the33rdteam.com/2025-nfl-draft-ohio-states-will-howard-is-this-years-sleeper-qb/

After diving into the tape and seeing his late-season surge, Howard should be taken seriously as an NFL Draft prospect.

However, Howard doesn't have the physical tools or upside of the top tier of prospects. Cam Ward, Shedeur Sanders, and even Jalen Milroe have the potential to be electric quarterbacks with their playmaking ability and have a leg up on Howard on that front.

The next tier of quarterbacks becomes much more competitive for Howard, and he may have a leg up on the rest of the class. Dart has some terrific arm talent but doesn't have the size that Howard possesses. Rourke was a real pocket passer at Indiana, but a re-torn ACL and limited mobility limits his long-term upside.

The majority of the other QB's coming out are considered project players and/or backups at the NFL level.
Just an FYI

Not untrue..But who would rather have, Baker or Watson.

I'd like to see Winston under center again if Stefanski is going back to play calling. Not confident in any of the bridge QB's we can potentially bring in.

Is that a legitimate question?

I hope he returns, as he'll also be a much cheaper option since we still have Watson on the roster, allowing us to focus on the O line and other positions in FA. I would like to see Winston under center with Stefanski calling the plays. I'm not saying it will work either, Bone. Just trying to think of way to remain competitive, keep Myles here, and get explosive talent on offense.

The biggest check mark on my list when signing a veteran QB IF we draft a QB is that he has the ability to run what Stefanski wants to run and have a great ability to teach that system the rookie drafted. The other huge check mark is that either the QB drafted fits Stefanski's system or Stefanski adjusts the system to fit the QB drafted. The drafted QB and the system the team runs has to fit together. Sure a rookie has to refine his skill set and adjust to the speed of the NFL game. But to try and totally re-invent who he is would be yet another disaster.

So for me I can't even begin to name who I would like to see signed as the FA QB until I see which QB the Browns draft. And things may very well not happen in that order.

Good prognosis.

My thinking-out-loud-without-much-homework is this:

I don't see a QB in the draft worth the #2

Sign a vet QB that will be under center for up to two years.

Draft a second tier QB with a high ceiling that may be raw, later in the draft.

Plan on drafting the "real" fQB next year.

Draft Carter #2 as he's a can't miss (in my eyes) and the Garrett situation may be untenable after next season.

If the raw QB grows quickly -- you have your QB. Either way, there's no rush to throw him in the fire and he'll be groomed in Stefanski's system.

He’s a good dude, but as QB, he’s a turnover machine and always has been. I’d rather have Joe back, and I don’t want Joe back.

I'm with you on this one.

When Flacco throws a pick, I know he was slingin'.

When Winston throws a pick, half the time I wonder if he has his eyes on backwards. And the constant "I have to do better", with tears in his eyes, when you know it will be the same next week -- reminds me too much of my ex-wife.

If the Qb isn’t there at 2, don’t reach. trade down or take BAP. I’d be happy with Carr, even Cousins. I think the Vikings will franchise Darnold and keep McCarthy, and we still need to draft a QB somewhere.

Let’s see what happens when FA begins, because we’ll be losing some guys, too, which will affect how we draft.
We need to draft an RB, probably a tackle and a guard, and maybe a JOK type. I’m really worried he will retire because a compressed spine is something to not mess with.

I like the thought of Derek Carr, we can win with that guy.

LOL,, You must not want to answer...

A name I haven’t heard or considered… Stanford on 2-3yr deal? Whatever rook you bring in is under a good dude and rock solid pro.

Linkipoo

You must lack the ability to read my sig. The same one I've had since watson got here.

Two years ago, I believe the Browns could have their choice of FA QBs with their Def, OL, Chubb, and Cooper. Today, those critical pieces are not in place and will be a red flag for any FA QB.

LT - Wills - a FA, (11.8M in dead cap if he leaves) if he isn't done in Cleveland and Berry gives him a new deal - Berry should be fired immediately
RT - Conklin - 31 years old with 2-years left on his deal (14.4M dead cap this year if cut pre 6/1 and 10M if he leaves in FA next year) and has only played in 13 games the last 2 seasons.
LG - Bitonio - turns 34 years old in Oct in the last year of his contract (14.5M dead cap this year if cut pre 6/1 and 8.5M if he leaves in FA next year)
RG - Teller - Turns 30 this season in the last year of his contract (19.1M dead cap this year if cut pre 6/1 and 12M if he leaves in FA next year)
C - Pocic - turns 30 in Aug in the last year of his contract (6.1M dead cap this year if cut pre 6/1 and 4.3M if he leaves in FA next year)
RB - Chubb - a FA, turns 30 this season. He has only played 10 games the last 2 seasons and currently on IR with a broken foot

The Browns are going to have a total restructure of the OL either this year or next unless Berry decides to spend high dollar contracts on aging vets he really can't afford. Kicking that can down the road certainly looks like it's coming to roost soon and in a BIG WAY!

The potential departure of a beloved player like Chubb underscores the delicate balance between loyalty to a player and the pragmatic demands of professional sports. While fans yearn for continuity and success, the unforgiving nature of the NFL necessitates tough decisions to ensure the team’s competitiveness and financial stability.

LOOKING AHEAD
As Cleveland fans brace themselves for a potential shift in the team’s roster dynamics, the uncertainty surrounding the above players future serves as a poignant reminder of the unpredictable nature of professional sports. While the outcome remains uncertain, one thing is clear – the Browns face a pivotal juncture that could shape the team’s trajectory for multiple seasons to come.

As long as the salary cap does not go down the cap will not be an issue. If the cap went down this issue would be huge if it does not go down cap space is fine 2025. With Watson's injury the Browns will gain 55 million back of cap space in 2026. So kicking the can was the right move. The Browns already have a few young players drafted ready to start seeing more snaps. Luke Wypler, Dawand Jones, and Zac Zinter. They will draft at least 1 more young piece. I don't think this will be an issue.

If we want to become competitive sooner than later we have no room for error. We have to make all the right decisions.

We can agree to disagree on the cap issue. The Browns are currently $30,005,430 over the cap for 2025 with 39,744,384 in dead money in that total. NFL teams must be under the 2025 salary cap by 4 PM New York time before the start of the 2025 league year. The 2025 league year begins at 4 PM New York time March 12th. The 2025 NFL projected cap is between 265M and 275M. If we use the high projection of 275M and add in the Browns rollover money of approx $39,451,049, it gives the Browns $314,451,049 cap availability for 2025. Unfortunately, the Browns current total cap liability is $344,456,479 leaving them $30,005,430 over the cap that they must eliminate by March 12th.

If you look closely, the Browns had to have the $39,451,049 in carryover cap just to cover their 2025 Dead Money of $39,744,384 due to Berry kicking the can down the road. All that and the Browns are still projected to be $30,005,430 over the cap currently for 2025.

In 2026, if we stay with planned projections, the Browns will have $290M as the cap number set by the NFL. Today, there is no carryover projected, and the Browns have $288,816,160 in liabilities currently with $51,031,000 in dead money projected that's included. Getting 55M back in cap space for Watson 2025 will be a god send in 2026 unless the Browns part ways with Watson and he'll generate a $99,799,000 dead money cap hit which will eat up more than 50% of that 55M the Browns recovered.

Important fact: all the numbers above do not include any new contracts for current players either year, no FA signings either year, or capital for the draft each year all of which will take additional funds - aka cap space.

Only flaw in your logic is that Vets want to work. They ask for big paydays until nobody wants them, then they settle for whats available. We’ll end up with a vet when we scrape the bottom of the barrel.

None the less, Berry has value. Just not so much as a talent evaluator.

The contract may say differently, but there is no rule the GM has to be the person selecting the players.

No, I saw it but I couldn't resist having some fun with ya

That's literally the primary top responsibility of an NFL GM. That's the job description. If he isn't doing that he is GM in name only. If his value lies in other areas his job title should reflect the job he actually does.

Posted by Peen-
If the Browns are ever going to build a winning roster via the draft and free agency..GM Berry is going to need major help from someone to help him judge football talent.

Yes, Berry has value as a numbers guy dealing with contracts but Andy is piss-poor at judging football talent. Years ago I said that Berry needs help when it comes to valuing and judging draft talent.

I agree with Peen about Berry having value when it comes to numbers and contracts so I'm not about to agree with firing
the guy. Also, where is it written that a GM has to be responsible for contracts as well as setting up a draft board?

Do what's best for the franchise.! If the Browns need better draft results, expand the draft room to include more scouts and talent evaluators.

Improving the Browns talent level via the draft and free agency is the goal.