I thought the intention of trading a player was based on which team gave you the most in return as long as that team wasn't inside your own division? I had no idea the main focus was trading that player to a terrible team just to be vengeful. You do realize that's not the way any of this is supposed to work, right? At least not the way responsible adults are supposed to conduct business.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I get Myles point and would have supported him until he started Lebroning us. Now, I’d make him play here at least through next year, but probably for the next four years with franchise tags. We didn’t invest in his development and contracts to let him leave over a bad season. And who gives a damn if he wants a ring, if he doesn’t earn it here? Do we want him to go to an NFC team like Philly? NOPE.
I agree with Quincy on this one. Minimum 3 first plus or a solid QB fix or another top level player(s) with some lower picks. Myles Garret is generational talent.
But there is a lower option that would help us a ton. Bundle him with DW. Get a deal where somebody else foots the rest of that stupid contract.
I get Myles point and would have supported him until he started Lebroning us. Now, I’d make him play here at least through next year, but probably for the next four years with franchise tags. We didn’t invest in his development and contracts to let him leave over a bad season. And who gives a damn if he wants a ring, if he doesn’t earn it here? Do we want him to go to an NFC team like Philly? NOPE.
I agree with Quincy on this one. Minimum 3 first plus or a solid QB fix or another top level player(s) with some lower picks. Myles Garret is generational talent.
But there is a lower option that would help us a ton. Bundle him with DW. Get a deal where somebody else foots the rest of that stupid contract.
The bundle idea would be great but at this point I don't think anyone wants DW.
jc...it seems like Myles problem with the front office dates back a bit further than we realize. I found this bit of news about Myles frustration with the Browns management dates back to 2021 when Mayfield suffered a serious shoulder injury.
Below is a link to the entire story and just some of important points that I've quoted...
Quote
Concerning Details Surface About Myles Garrett's Frustration With Browns
The injury turned out to be a torn labrum in Mayfield’s shoulder and it led to the worst season of his career.
However, according to analyst Garrett Bush, Myles Garrett was not happy that Kevin Stefanski did not step in and make the call to bench Mayfield in favor of Case Keenum, for the best interests of the team.
“Myles Garrett and a lot of other people on that team resented the fact that that season went downhill because Kevin Stefanski did not make a call as a coach should. The coach’s job is to look out for the best interest of not only Baker Mayfield and his long-term success and long-term future as a quarterback. But not only that, he’s supposed to be looking out for the well-being of the team,” Bush said.
Garrett and the other players were understandably upset about how the situation unfolded, so now Stefanski and his team may face the consequences of permitting Mayfield to play while injured.
According to the story, Myles and others in the locker room were upset that Stafanski did not step in and shut Mayfield down and allow him to get the medical treatment he needed. It was not Mayfield's responsibility to make the decision...it was Stefanski's responsibility to bench Mayfield and start Keenum.
It is likely that Stefanski was taking orders from upper management to allow Mayfield to continue to play. Regardless, that decision did not set well with Myles and many in the locker room.
The story being fed to the media was that it was Mayfield's call to play while injured..but the locker room did not see it that way.
The truth always comes out. To the dismay of a number of posters here, this vérifies from one of the best if not the best DE's in the game that Stefanski screwed Mayfield and the Browns in 2021. To compound the issue, Stefanski led the charge to dump Mayfield and was a major contributor to the Watson deal. Now, 3-years later, the team's best player is demanding a trade and telling all that is just doesn't pertain to last season but everything dating back to the 2021 season - the year after the Browns made the playoffs for the first time in over 2 decades.
You have to ask yourself, how much influence has Garrett had in the locker room during these last 3-years of QB crap for dumping Mayfield? How much disdain has there been in the locker room for Stefanski the last 3-years? How much locker room strife will surface if the Browns refuse to trade Garrett? Folks, this is a 10-alarm fire that the Browns have no answer for as it stands.
I've been advocating for the dismissal of Stefanski and Berry since the end of the 2021 season. Many posters lay the blame totally on Mayfield for the 2021 season and getting dumped. However, and I quote: "Garrett and a lot of the people on that team resented the fact that the season went downhill because Kevin Stefanski did not make a call as a coach should." As I stated then and restate now, a HC determines who plays, not the player. Even if upper management issued orders to Stefanski to play Mayfield injured, what type of HC allows the upper-level management to order him to play an injured player when the whole team knows he should be benched? If true, that solidifies that Berry should be canned too. What respect if any does the locker room have for Stefanski or Berry?
Stay tuned because I think this is just the beginning of the walls coming down. I fully expect more dirt from Garrett and those players the Browns let go this year.
Once again, Stefanski doesn't decide on which players to cut from the team. He doesn't make the decisions on which players to sign or how much their contracts are for. In fact of this owner and FO had been paying attention watson made it clear he didn't want to be here from the very beginning. And it wasn't Stefanski who made the decision to back up the Brinks trump to lure watson into coming here after he made it clear he didn't want to be here.
Continuing to start Mayfield after his injury was most certainly a mistake. But can you say with certainty who it was that made the final decision on that? I know I can't. Even if you "think" you do, nothing about the watson deal was in Stefanski's hands. All of that was above Stefanski's pay grade. Trying to blame him for the decisions this FO made by cutting Mayfield or signing watson afterwords is within the realm of reality.
It was Mayfield that made it clear he wanted out of town after he earned the FO was courting watson. Not that I can say I blame him for that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
jc...it seems like Myles problem with the front office dates back a bit further than we realize. I found this bit of news about Myles frustration with the Browns management dates back to 2021 when Mayfield suffered a serious shoulder injury.
Below is a link to the entire story and just some of important points that I've quoted...
Quote
Concerning Details Surface About Myles Garrett's Frustration With Browns
The injury turned out to be a torn labrum in Mayfield’s shoulder and it led to the worst season of his career.
However, according to analyst Garrett Bush, Myles Garrett was not happy that Kevin Stefanski did not step in and make the call to bench Mayfield in favor of Case Keenum, for the best interests of the team.
“Myles Garrett and a lot of other people on that team resented the fact that that season went downhill because Kevin Stefanski did not make a call as a coach should. The coach’s job is to look out for the best interest of not only Baker Mayfield and his long-term success and long-term future as a quarterback. But not only that, he’s supposed to be looking out for the well-being of the team,” Bush said.
Garrett and the other players were understandably upset about how the situation unfolded, so now Stefanski and his team may face the consequences of permitting Mayfield to play while injured.
According to the story, Myles and others in the locker room were upset that Stafanski did not step in and shut Mayfield down and allow him to get the medical treatment he needed. It was not Mayfield's responsibility to make the decision...it was Stefanski's responsibility to bench Mayfield and start Keenum.
It is likely that Stefanski was taking orders from upper management to allow Mayfield to continue to play. Regardless, that decision did not set well with Myles and many in the locker room.
The story being fed to the media was that it was Mayfield's call to play while injured..but the locker room did not see it that way.
The truth always comes out. To the dismay of a number of posters here, this vérifies from one of the best if not the best DE's in the game that Stefanski screwed Mayfield and the Browns in 2021. To compound the issue, Stefanski led the charge to dump Mayfield and was a major contributor to the Watson deal. Now, 3-years later, the team's best player is demanding a trade and telling all that is just doesn't pertain to last season but everything dating back to the 2021 season - the year after the Browns made the playoffs for the first time in over 2 decades.
You have to ask yourself, how much influence has Garrett had in the locker room during these last 3-years of QB crap for dumping Mayfield? How much disdain has there been in the locker room for Stefanski the last 3-years? How much locker room strife will surface if the Browns refuse to trade Garrett? Folks, this is a 10-alarm fire that the Browns have no answer for as it stands.
I've been advocating for the dismissal of Stefanski and Berry since the end of the 2021 season. Many posters lay the blame totally on Mayfield for the 2021 season and getting dumped. However, and I quote: "Garrett and a lot of the people on that team resented the fact that the season went downhill because Kevin Stefanski did not make a call as a coach should." As I stated then and restate now, a HC determines who plays, not the player. Even if upper management issued orders to Stefanski to play Mayfield injured, what type of HC allows the upper-level management to order him to play an injured player when the whole team knows he should be benched? If true, that solidifies that Berry should be canned too. What respect if any does the locker room have for Stefanski or Berry?
Stay tuned because I think this is just the beginning of the walls coming down. I fully expect more dirt from Garrett and those players the Browns let go this year.
Garrett actually went back further than that. He did not like the comments made by Baker about him hitting the Steelers QB with his own helmet and the Browns FO not supporting him enough. That was even before Stefanski and Berry. Garrett Bush goes in detail of all of each incident that Garrett has been upset about since he was drafted and says he does not want any more wasted years. Which is fine but he is not getting traded this year without some kind of king's ransom. Too much dead cap hit.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Once again, Stefanski doesn't decide on which players to cut from the team. He doesn't make the decisions on which players to sign or how much their contracts are for. In fact of this owner and FO had been paying attention watson made it clear he didn't want to be here from the very beginning. And it wasn't Stefanski who made the decision to back up the Brinks trump to lure watson into coming here after he made it clear he didn't want to be here.
Continuing to start Mayfield after his injury was most certainly a mistake. But can you say with certainty who it was that made the final decision on that? I know I can't. Even if you "think" you do, nothing about the watson deal was in Stefanski's hands. All of that was above Stefanski's pay grade. Trying to blame him for the decisions this FO made by cutting Mayfield or signing watson afterwords is within the realm of reality.
It was Mayfield that made it clear he wanted out of town after he earned the FO was courting watson. Not that I can say I blame him for that.
I disagree with you that Stefanski doesn't decide on which players to cut from the team. The Browns will 100 or so players in camp this next year, to think or say that Stefanski doesn't have some of the decision-making process on the final 51 is meritless. Are there players that Berry says he cannot cut or keep, absolutely. However, to state that the HC has no decision making in the process is unfounded. I didn't say that Stefanski had any part in the backing up of the brinks truck for Watson. What I did say is that Stefanski talked with Berry about moving on from Mayfield. I also firmly believe that Stefanski was a part of the decision to pursue Watson. I don't buy for a single minute that he was unaware, uninformed, and basically in the blind about the pursuit of Watson. I still believe, unless you can factually prove me wrong, Berry and Stefanski collaborated on Watson and presented to Haslam which included the dumping of Mayfield. I also said that it didn't matter who made the ultimate decision to play injured Mayfield, any HC that would follow an order to play a player that was clearly injured (verified by Garretts comments) is a piece of crap that has no business leading a team. In comparison, what you're saying is all the Germans in the concentration camps should be absolved because they were only following the orders of Hitler (aka the FO) even if they thought it was right or wrong.
Stefanski and Berry each own a piece of this mess the Browns are in today. To think differently is just ignoring the facts - they've both wrecked this team in their own way.
So you are trying to claim the scenario you provided is the same thing as the Browns FO courting watson which led to Baker wanting to leave the Browns? Please tell me you're not trying to make that lame argument.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Does anyone know when the Browns began showing interest in Watson..?
It might be that the those at the top were making calls to the Texans about Watson much sooner than the fans realize.
Browns supposedly discussed numbers for a Baker contract extension. Browns wanted low/mid 30's Baker's team wanted high30's/low40s.
https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/baker-mayfield-browns-extension-report-10-16/95-879d8df8-0a3f-432f-b9ef-41045b6176af#:~:text=Report%3A%20Cleveland%20Browns%20willing%20to,high%20%2430%20million%20per%20year. Report: Cleveland Browns willing to pay Baker Mayfield mid-high $34 million per year extension
Supposedly a contract was never officially offered because they were too far off.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/03/21/mmqb-how-browns-got-back-in-deshaun-watson-chase Watson personally called Berry and explained to him why he was eliminating the Browns. Berry wished Watson well, and then called Mulugheta and told him he’d stay in touch and that he’d still be interested if Watson, for some reason, changed his mind.
Browns backed into a corner and push Watson to a guaranteed contract. Watson changes his mind. https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...will-receive-a-blockbuster-new-deal.html Deshaun Watson chooses Browns in a stunning reversal; they give up 3 first-rounders and more, signing him to a 5-year, $230M guaranteed deal
So you are trying to claim the scenario you provided is the same thing as the Browns FO courting watson which led to Baker wanting to leave the Browns? Please tell me you're not trying to make that lame argument.
Absolutely not - I know that Berry was in the process of trying to sign Mayfield to a new deal (fact). I firmly believe that Stefanski told Berry that he wasn't in favor of resigning Mayfield and between them they determined that entering the Watson sweepstakes could better the team since Berry was far apart on the Mayfield deal. I believe they sold Haslam on the idea, and he got heavily involved when Watson eliminated the Browns from contention. It wasn't until it became public knowledge that the Browns were pursuing Watson that Mayfield asked to be traded. Any good QB worth his salt would have asked to be traded after the stalled contract talks and then the team publicly seeking a replacement.
Keep in mind that Mayfield QB'd the Browns to the playoffs in his 3rd year the first in more than 2 decades for the Browns. He was injured in his 4th year and still had the 5th year option to play. Stefanski, especially Stefanski, had no idea how much Mayfield would improve over the next 3 years. Obviously, GM Berry had no idea either. Given what Mayfield has done the last 2-years, 2 playoff appearances with 3 games, throwing 41 TD's last year compared with what they have received in return from the Watson deal solidifies the argument these two bozos (Stefanski & Berry) will never turn around the Browns.
Fact: The Trade blew up in our faces. Fact: we don’t know which of the higher-ups deserve blame, although it can probably be shared. And by this point, it really doesn’t matter. They thought DW could be high-level again but he wasn’t.
Fact: that ship has sailed, we’re starting over at QB. Almost Fact: if we don’t show signs of improvement and don’t nail this free agency/draft - moreso the latter - AB will get gonged in 2025.
Fact: The Trade blew up in our faces. Fact: we don’t know which of the higher-ups deserve blame, although it can probably be shared. And by this point, it really doesn’t matter. They thought DW could be high-level again but he wasn’t.
Honestly I think this says everything. All the other back and forth is meaningless. I have said before - each of us can offer an opinion on how much blame each of them should own, but it won't ever be factual. . . although there is a poster whose opinion I would trust more than my own
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I think Joe T said what many of us have echoed here, albeit in a longer and more expansive fashion. And it would seem hard to argue with JT who was elite and a Brown his entire career.
Bottom line: Trade MG - get the most you can for him regardless of the team (with the exception of our own division). There is no need to be vindictive and try to trade him to a bad team, the only thing the Browns FO should try to do is maximise the return. Based on his contract it sounds like this will be a post draft trade, so picks for next year (and maybe into 2027?)
I see comments about geting 3 first rounders for MG ... I don't see that happening. Maybe 2 mid-late first rounders and some mid round picks from a team expected to go deep into the playoffs. But I expect a more likely scenario is a projected high1st and multiple 2nd/3rds. And yes - hopefully Berry doesn't mess this up too.
Last edited by mgh888; 02/11/2506:07 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Agreed. I see no point in pretending to know how it all went down.
Here we are now KS and AB have jobs to do.
The Myles situation is in the hands of Berry. IMO he should do all he can to convince Myles to want to stay.
There is a timeline. If Berry believes Myles is dug in and he thinks that he could make his best deal before the 2025 draft then he should trade Myles to the highest bidder.
In the end Berry has to decide what is best for the Browns.
However, make no mistake he is working to save his job. It is important for him that the Browns win.
Patience will come into play if we were to start a rookie quarterback and there were ups and downs.
As long as the rookie QB showed positive signs of being a future star.
Agreed. I see no point in pretending to know how it all went down.
Here we are now KS and AB have jobs to do.
The Myles situation is in the hands of Berry. IMO he should do all he can to convince Myles to want to stay.
There is a timeline. If Berry believes Myles is dug in and he thinks that he could make his best deal before the 2025 draft then he should trade Myles to the highest bidder.
In the end Berry has to decide what is best for the Browns.
However, make no mistake he is working to save his job. It is important for him that the Browns win.
Patience will come into play if we were to start a rookie quarterback and there were ups and downs.
As long as the rookie QB showed positive signs of being a future star.
I agree with most of what you have said. I do, however, disagree about Berry and Stefanski. I have zero faith in them to do what is best for the BROWNS.
That said, IMHO, Berry has to fix the o-line before he drafts a rookie QB and throws him to the wolves. Wills (26) should absolutely be gone and costs the Browns $11,812,056 in dead money cap for 2025 because of Berry's kicking the can down the road. Bitonio (34) is contemplating retirement and is in the last year of his contract but has no cap savings with pre-June 1 cut due to the kicking the can down the road. Pocic (30) disappointed in 2024 and is also in the final year of his contract and offers little cap relief with a pre-June1 cut. Teller (31) is in the final year of his contract and offers zero cap relief with a pre-June 1 cut and Conklin (31) has 2-years left on his contract but also presents the highest cap savings of the group for a pre-June 1 cut.
I would suspect that Teller and Pocic are in the process of wanting a new contract so Berry will also have to address that issue. If Berry is moving on, what does that do to their attitude for the coming season? In any case, between this year and next, it looks like a total revamp of the starting o-line. Except for maybe Jones starting, what is the point of drafting a rookie QB that ill either this year or next be protected by an unproven line. If Berry doesn't make the wholesale line changes this year and drafts an unproven rookie QB, then in year-2 the rookie will be looking at a totally revamped line stunting his growth. Drafting a QB knowing your o-line is going to be totally overhauled this year or next is wasted effort.
Berry and the Browns better be thinking about addressing to o-line first because without that, any rookie QB is doomed to fail.
Fact: The Trade blew up in our faces. Fact: we don’t know which of the higher-ups deserve blame, although it can probably be shared. And by this point, it really doesn’t matter. They thought DW could be high-level again but he wasn’t.
Honestly I think this says everything. All the other back and forth is meaningless. I have said before - each of us can offer an opinion on how much blame each of them should own, but it won't ever be factual. . . although there is a poster whose opinion I would trust more than my own
I am in complete agreement with you both. Where the argument circles back to insanity is when we discuss who(m) is to lead us OUT of this mess. If "they" (those leading the charge) will be the same guys who led us INTO this mess...then we regress (myself included) to the past decisions that "they" made that led us to here and why "they" shouldn't be the ones to lead the way out.
I am in complete agreement with you both. Where the argument circles back to insanity is when we discuss who(m) is to lead us OUT of this mess. If "they" (those leading the charge) will be the same guys who led us INTO this mess...then we regress (myself included) to the past decisions that "they" made that led us to here and why "they" shouldn't be the ones to lead the way out.
I am in complete agreement with you both. Where the argument circles back to insanity is when we discuss who(m) is to lead us OUT of this mess. If "they" (those leading the charge) will be the same guys who led us INTO this mess...then we regress (myself included) to the past decisions that "they" made that led us to here and why "they" shouldn't be the ones to lead the way out.
Well that's where folks/fans need to be grown ups and agree to disagree. Berry and KS would have been fired immediately at the end of the season. I have absolutley zero trust in Berry. His roster - talent and depth-wise - to me is rank. Who we rolled with as back up QB's last year and this year was nothing short of the utmost incompetence. We've seen that first hand. KS I give marginally more trust to because the floor is not so low -- but I believe his ceiling is barely average ... doing less with more when we had all the toys and skill to do well.
But that's me. I've said my piece - I don't need to try and convince anyone else to feel the same way I do. It's out of my hands/control. I am going to hope for the best while expecting the worst.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I am in complete agreement with you both. Where the argument circles back to insanity is when we discuss who(m) is to lead us OUT of this mess. If "they" (those leading the charge) will be the same guys who led us INTO this mess...then we regress (myself included) to the past decisions that "they" made that led us to here and why "they" shouldn't be the ones to lead the way out.
Well that's where folks/fans need to be grown ups and agree to disagree. Berry and KS would have been fired immediately at the end of the season. I have absolutley zero trust in Berry. His roster - talent and depth-wise - to me is rank. Who we rolled with as back up QB's last year and this year was nothing short of the utmost incompetence. We've seen that first hand. KS I give marginally more trust to because the floor is not so low -- but I believe his ceiling is barely average ... doing less with more when we had all the toys and skill to do well.
But that's me. I've said my piece - I don't need to try and convince anyone else to feel the same way I do. It's out of my hands/control. I am going to hope for the best while expecting the worst.
Yes, a former number one overall pick, well-liked by his teammates, and near his athletic prime is clearly an utterly incompetent choice for a backup QB.
What backup QB was better last year?
The best backup QBs are the ones that don't need to play. If a guy is good enough to be a starter, he generally doesn't sign on to be a backup.
Would having Kenny Pickett as the backup QB have been competent? That's who the Super Bowl champs had.
If he'd had to play for us the whole season, I'm guessing it would have been horrific and we probably wouldn't have seen Jeudy make his first pro bowl.
Our starter got hurt and there's didn't. Their starting OL played pretty much all season. They had their Chubb/Barkley. Their dominant DL stayed healthy (Other than the aging vet Graham who had been replaced by an early round pick anyways.) Zach Baun played out of his mind, JOK got hurt.
Health of a team matters. Is it the Lions' GM's fault that their entire team pretty much got hurt? Is it Kwesi's fault that the Vikings OL got banged up and Darnold started seeing ghosts again? Is it Lynch's fault that CMC missed more or less the whole season?
Blaming GMs for injuries and backups (particularly at QB where the rules are designed to make seeing them as unlikely as possible) seems somewhat short-sighted.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Oh we know you're the smartest guy in the room = and like to think you are the only one to think outside ... Yes yes.
Last year we went into the season with back up QB's PJ Walker and Dorian Thompson Robinson. . . . great to hear that your football acumen is so high that you agree those are great quality back ups.
This year - in order to avoid a QB controversy we jettisoned Flacco and rolled with Crab Legs ... a gunslinger known for his high number of interceptions. Bear in mind that it has since materialized that all along the organization and team has known Watson has been a lazy bum and not practicing hard or well and his play on the field has reflected his play and attitude off the field.
Sure - you keep doing you and rolling your eyes. Hell even change the subjuect if you like, as you did half way through the post.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Oh we know you're the smartest guy in the room = and like to think you are the only one to think outside ... Yes yes.
Last year we went into the season with back up QB's PJ Walker and Dorian Thompson Robinson. . . . great to hear that your football acumen is so high that you agree those are great quality back ups.
This year - in order to avoid a QB controversy we jettisoned Flacco and rolled with Crab Legs ... a gunslinger known for his high number of interceptions. Bear in mind that it has since materialized that all along the organization and team has known Watson has been a lazy bum and not practicing hard or well and his play on the field has reflected his play and attitude off the field.
Sure - you keep doing you and rolling your eyes. Hell even change the subjuect if you like, as you did half way through the post.
Go figure, personal attacks instead of addressing the meat of the post. I don't get why people think that using logic is someone trying to prove they are smarter. I mean I get that someone showing where your argument does not hold up can make you feel dumb. Complaining about someone trying to be smart instead of taking it as an opportunity for growth is unfortunately all too common.
If your argument had been just that year, I could have agreed. Even then, they had faith in a young guy who had looked good in the preseason, it wasn't completely outlandish. In the regular season, though, he struggled. It was a calculated risk. They learned from that mistake and invested in the position with Jameis.
Yes, made up stories have since appeared from people upset at the results and responding from emotion.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Whatever - I think your post very much a personal attack. Following a post where I just talked about grown ups not needing to try and gainsay others opinions.
So ... I said specifically that Berry was incompetent for rolling with the backups he did in the last two season. To be fair - 2023 was WAYYYY worse than 2024. Winston wouldn't be my choice - but he wasn't chronically, fatally bad. PJ Walker and DTR most deinately were. Period. You can't sidestep or talk your way around what an incompetant godawful decision that was.
What I didn't do was talk about other players, injuries or other QB's on other teams. I did not blame the GM for injuries. I talked about the bad decision Berry made to go into a season with the QB depth chart he chose. If you want to debate that - go ahead. Tty to do it without the rolling eyes or other insinuations that somehow your the only one that sees the light.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I don't get why people think that using logic is someone trying to prove they are smarter.
Let us know when that happens.
Quote
I mean I get that someone showing where your argument does not hold up can make you feel dumb. Complaining about someone trying to be smart instead of taking it as an opportunity for growth is unfortunately all too common.
Quote
If your argument had been just that year, I could have agreed. Even then, they had faith in a young guy who had looked good in the preseason, it wasn't completely outlandish. In the regular season, though, he struggled. It was a calculated risk. They learned from that mistake and invested in the position with Jameis.
So your argument is that since he didn't look like crap against players which half of them wouldn't even make their teams roster it made sense? Is that the logic you referred to earlier?
Quote
Yes, made up stories have since appeared from people upset at the results and responding from emotion.
That's your take. It may just actually be that people are responding to total nonsense that garner such replies.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Myles knows Berea is pretty much incompetent. I think we can all agree on that. Under Haslam and his idiotic organizational structure, the Browns will NEVER be consistently successful. Oh they might make the playoffs here and there but they will NEVER achieve sustained success. Stefanski is not a leader of men, doesn't seem to really adjust in game and doesn't really bring anything spectacular to the table. Berry is clueless. Nobody really knows what Depodesta does. Haslam is basically Jerry Jones 2. Good luck with your dome Jimmy. Not really sure how many people are going to continue to support this circus but after 55 years, I'm going to take a break. Sundays need to be fun and relevant again. The Browns just don't have what it takes and to be honest, I'm tired of watching the dumpster fire. Good luck to those who continue to hang on.
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
They are the guys who will make those difficult decisions.
No matter what our opinions are of KS and AB they are in charge along with Haslam.
I think it is important to keep in mind that both men are young. They are also smart. People gain experience and normally get better at their jobs.
We will find out when the results come in after the season.
I will back their decisions even if I think otherwise. If they select a quarterback. I will get behind the guy and say "ok let's go."
I have no expectations for 2025.
Being smart means nothing without common sense and the ability to do a consequence analysis. The Browns decisions and results the last four seasons speaks for itself. It screams incompetence from a dysfunctional organization.
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1. Whatever happens to Garrett it will have a negative impact on the result next season. Without him the defense has to rebuild. Force him to stay is probably even worse.
2. The Browns must pick a QB in this draft. Waiting to the second round is a huge gamble. I would not recommend Sanders, too much drama follows his father. (And I love Prime) Do the Browns have enough patience to do a KCC and let him grow gradually into his role?
3. Bolster our O and D line must be our second priority.
4. Whoever is our GM must make a visible realistic plan to show the Browns nation. Not in detail but he must show a direction that almost everyone who care for this organization can believe. Pick a QB. Make a plan for the future.
5. Stefanski must man up and show real leadership. Without a HC who has full control of his team, who to play, tactics, authority and in charge of discipline matters the Browns will never fully succeed.(I don’t see elite qualities but others maybe do?)
Stay away from the second hand QB market unless Mahomes or similar are available (safe to say that will never happen)
Rodgers? NO! (Stefanski, Berry and Aaron Rogers - what can possibly go wrong?) Cousins? No no no no NO!!! (to the tune of 2 unlimited - There’s no limit) Darnold? Yes….. but no! Too expensive and we can’t have a QB with red hair…. No!) Jones? Yeah…. (pause) No! From NY to Cleveland.. any bells ringing?)
Whatever - I think your post very much a personal attack. Following a post where I just talked about grown ups not needing to try and gainsay others opinions.
So ... I said specifically that Berry was incompetent for rolling with the backups he did in the last two season. To be fair - 2023 was WAYYYY worse than 2024. Winston wouldn't be my choice - but he wasn't chronically, fatally bad. PJ Walker and DTR most deinately were. Period. You can't sidestep or talk your way around what an incompetant godawful decision that was.
What I didn't do was talk about other players, injuries or other QB's on other teams. I did not blame the GM for injuries. I talked about the bad decision Berry made to go into a season with the QB depth chart he chose. If you want to debate that - go ahead. Tty to do it without the rolling eyes or other insinuations that somehow your the only one that sees the light.
My first post responding to yours never mentioned you. Where was the personal attack? You're the one that went all "you think you're smarter than everyone" and made things personal.
The results and the decision are two different things. And I don't think you can lump them all together. Jameis wasn't a great QB for us, but for a backup he was good enough to get a WR to his first Pro Bowl. As for DTR and Walker, you can't have great backups everywhere, it just doesn't work that way. When paying Watson's contract and having other high priced veterans you have to go cheaper elsewhere. They were also likely thinking Chubb could take the pressure off whoever was back there. It definitely didn't work out that way.
You posted "His roster - talent and depth-wise - to me is rank." To me, that's talking about all the other players. People were talking about us having one of the most talented rosters in the league at the time, and now in revisionist history land it was "rank." A bunch of injuries depleted the depth, which is why I mentioned injuries.
Forgive me if I roll my eyes when people try to rewrite the past to fit their present narrative.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I thought it might be interesting to look at the top 5 projected QB's in 2025 to those in 2026. I only put a part of the report on each player which you can see in totality by visiting the web site for the total report on each player. Clearly, it would appear that the 2026 class will be better than the 2025 class. For your viewing pleasure.
#____Player____Pos__Team___Weight____Height___40YD_____ AVG POS RANK__AVG OVR RANK_Rating 1 Arch Manning - QB - Texas___ 225lbs_____6-4_____4.62__________1___________1_________ 93.5 Summary: Manning represents the rare prospect who combines blue-chip physical tools with an elite football pedigree and natural feel for the for the position. His combination of arm talent, athleticism, and advanced mental processing hints at a ceiling that could surpass even his Hall of Fame uncles.
2. Nico Iamaleava QB - Tennessee - 215lbs___6-6_____4.75__________2___________ 6_________90.9 Summary: The NFL comparison that keeps coming to mind when studying Iamaleava is Justin Herbert - another tall, athletic QB who can make jaw-dropping throws look routine. Like Herbert coming out of Oregon, Iamaleava has shown enough pure talent to make scouts drool while still having room to grow in terms of consistency and decision-making.
3. Shedeur Sanders QB - Colorado__215lbs___6-2_____4.68__________2_________15.5________90.1 Sanders projects as a high-ceiling prospect who could develop into a franchise cornerstone with proper coaching and PROTECTION. His precision in the short and intermediate game, coupled with advanced processing skills, provides an NFL-ready foundation to build upon.
4. Cam Ward___QB - Miami_______223lbs___6-2_____4.87__________1__________12.7________89.7 Summary: NFL teams will find a proven playmaker worthy of early first-round consideration. Ward's ability to create within structure while maintaining accuracy on off-platform throws makes him an ideal fit for modern NFL offenses.
5. Drew Allar - QB - Penn State__238lbs_____6-5_____4.90__________3___________16_________89.0 Summary: Looking ahead to his NFL projection, Allar profiles as a blue-chip prospect who could thrive in a vertical passing system that maximizes his arm talent while allowing him to create outside structure. His combination of size, arm strength, and developing feel for the pocket draws favorable comparisons to Josh Allen coming out of Wyoming - a traits-based prospect whose physical tools translated immediately while the finer points caught up.
6. LaNorris Sellers QB - S Carolina 242lbs____6-3_____4.62__________4___________24_________88.4 Summary: NFL projection? The physical tools and developmental trajectory have scouts salivating. Sellers brings a Jalen Hurts-plus skill set with a stronger arm and bigger frame than Hurts had at the same stage. The natural athleticism jumps off the tape - he's the rare quarterback who's both a legitimate running threat and a gifted passer.
7. Garrett Nussmeier QB LSU____200lbs_____6-2____4.82___________5___________35_________87.4 Nussmeier enters 2025 as a prospect whose NFL future hangs on two critical questions: can his 200-pound frame withstand the punishment of a full NFL season, and can he develop the discipline to harness his considerable physical gifts? The arm talent is undeniable - he makes throws that leave scouts drooling.
8. Jaxson Dart__QB___Ole Miss__225lbs_____6-2____4.85___________7___________65.5_______85.4 Summary: Dart's tape shows a gunslinger with plus-arm talent and the wheels to be a true dual-threat at the next level. His ability to push the ball vertically and create off-schedule has scouts intrigued.
9. Quinn Ewers___QB___Texas___210lbs____6-2____4.74____________6___________59________84.0 Summary: Ewers' 2024 campaign reads like his career in microcosm - tantalizing potential mixed with stalled development. While his production remained steady, the anticipated leap from good to elite never materialized.
10. Jalen Milroe - QB___Alabama__225lbs___6-2_____4.60___________5___________45.2_______83.9 Summary: Raw tools jump off the tape with Milroe - a nuclear arm paired with explosive athleticism that threatens defenses on every snap. His game-breaking acceleration and ability to stress second-level defenders puts him in rare air athletically, even in an NFL context.
...Arch Manning has attempted more than 12 passes in two games in his college career. More than 6 in only 3. The sample size feels rather small to have any degree of accuracy for a draft grade at this point. He did play well against Mississippi State whose two wins were against Eastern Kentucky and UMass.
I'm just saying that a lot can change in a year. He could live up to the hype. ...or he could go full Carson Beck.
Plus, if he is good enough to go 1-1, and we're bad enough to have pick one, (with NIL) staying at Texas could look pretty good.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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