DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Myles Garrett Requests Trade

No, Denver DID fix it! Anyone who believes Sean Payton didn't demand a lot of control when he took that job is only fooling themselves. He had the resume' to get that power. If you're included in that group it's not my fault. Or is it simply a miracle that the QB situation in Denver turned around the draft after Payton got there? Inquiring minds want to know.

So now AB is Howie Roseman too? Dear Lord man.

So how many more years should AB get? 1, 2, 5? How much longer should sucktitude rule before you think he should be shown the door?

Five seasons is "the quick hook"?

Yeah, if you throw out the worse deal it looks almost average. But that's not how the real world works. When you do that much damage to a franchise in one fatal swoop it sticks. His body of work after five seasons led the Browns to 3-13 and the worst QB room in the NFL. Results are what natters and the results are anything but average.

And even average won't lead you to a SB. Isn't that the reason they said they got rid of Baker? But it's a different set of rules for AB huh?

Nailed it ... But Berry and KS are getting another year and Berry is in charge of navigating and undoing the damage done by the big trade. So maybe things will come out differently than what we've seen so far in their 5 years in charge. But with each passing year the results and team are more entirely of their making ... I dont like it but there it is.

Heck the way injuries are used to deflect any criticism, come September and all our players healthy we should be back to playoff contender regardless of who is qb.

While I'm happy that we're not kicking off a new reboot, this is absolutely true. Many GMs and coaches have been fired for way less bad than what's gone on under AB/KS.

J/C

We've made it to the playoffs with Berry and KS more times than we did with Bill Belichick over the same period of time.

If it was losing seasons every year, that'd be one thing. We just made the playoffs the year before.

Unfortunately, when you do better in the NFL, you face better opponents the next year. When you face better opponents and your entire offense is mangled, the results aren't pretty.

It sucks, but progress isn't always linear.

This year we'll go back to facing 4th place teams and probably see better results with a return to the mean with injuries. Hit on a QB and we might finally get over the hump. We have some good pieces in place despite what the record makes some think.

Before this season they made the playoffs half the time. They make it next year, they are back to half the time. For this post-return franchise, that's progress.

Some fans apparently think the glory days are still to be expected. We haven't been that team in a long time. There are also other really good teams with great players in established systems. Those great teams have their QB. We tried to buy one and unfortunately there aren't QB lemon laws, we didn't get the specs on the fact sheet.

So the HC has the ability to make the most of what he's been given to work with until it gets to the point he's given pretty much nothing to work with at all. I think we can agree on that.

The specs were on the fact sheet but the fact sheet was ignored. They went by only the numbers which as it turns out often isn't where all the answers lie.

Is Jalen Hurts a great QB? Or does hit fit a great system? Can KS find a QB like Flacco or Winston that won't turn the ball over. Baker fit that bill for half a season in 2020. I think the right veteran can fit that bill. Heck, if Baker can do what he is doing in Tampa the Browns can find the same kinda play in a Daniel Jones, Kirk Cousins, Derek Carr etc... They have had similar success and failure as Baker. Our division is much better than the NFC South though.

When most of what you're given to work with is taken away by injury, there's less to make the most of. Doesn't matter who you had if you keep losing them.

I think you still have trouble determining what facts are.

Obviously, the facts don't have all the answers when it comes to players or no one would ever get it wrong. Projection is a big part of the business. There's always risk when dealing with the future.

he's not going anywhere.

Also, there is no way the NFL will allow the Browns to cut Watson and trade Garrett etc

Billionaires holding other Billionaires responsible? Say it ain’t so…

Generally I might agree with you, but this year we have to sign some veteran. Dorian and Zappe are nothings, especially Dorian. We need a veteran and draft one if not two QBs in this draft. Draft one in the 2nd at the latest and maybe another in the 5th.

We have to be top heavy with QB's this year. Keep the signed vet and both the drafted guys on the roster, and keep Zappe on the PS in the event your starting vet gets hurt in the first 4-5 games. The last thing we want to do is start a rook before he is ready, and maybe more importantly, the rest of the O is ready to support a rookie QB. Most of the time it takes an O time to gel as a unit.

In retrospect, we should have traded Dorian when there seemed to be some buzz. Dorian totally sucks. Zappe isn't a whole lot better, but he is better.

Spyergun Wynn was a better QB that DTR IMO.

To make a valid evaluation you need to ask yourself the right type of questions.

Why did DW fall off a cliff?

If we can agree that it wasn’t because of his age or bad luck we have to dig deeper. (To not repeat the same mistakes again)

Did the Browns FO ask him to do an extended physical test before he signed the contract?
Did we ask for his medical files?
Did we drug test him?
Did a psychiatrist make an examination of his mental health?

These questions are relevant with $230m guaranteed on the table.

Did we make a physical test before every season started and was there a clause in the contract that if his test results dropped under a certain level it would affected his salary or future? (these clauses aren’t based on results, only of his physical condition)

Let’s say his agent or himself refused these tests or any clause’s in the contract.
What does it tell us?

When he first rejected us why didn’t we walk away. That’s a valid question nobody has answered.

Who was in charge for his physical and mental well being after the contract was signed? ( I would ask for a physical test every month)
With $230M involved I think this’s a very valid question.

Responsible for making sure that all these questions are answered is Andrew Berry.
If he neglected to do a PROPER evaluation of all this what does that tell us about him as a GM?

If this organization wants to be elite they have to do all these little things like an elite organization. It starts with a General Manager who take these things serious.

Parts of Watson’s failure tells me that these things were neglected. This’s one of the reasons why I and many others question his ability to elevate the Browns to the same level as the very best teams.

Medical tests didn't show injuries that hadn't occurred yet.

Contracts are guaranteed for injury not against injury. That's just not how NFL contracts work.

All NFL players are drug tested, and I've seen no evidence that Watson failed any while here.

Maybe a psychiatrist did. Maybe he was prescribed anti-depressants/anxiety medications. Maybe side effects of medications were part of the problem. Mandatory therapy/counseling was allegedly part of the contract.

Entry and exit physicals are done with every player every season. Again, contracts aren't written to punish players for injuries. The team did take out insurance policies to offset them if they occurred.

It would tell us that they did what every player and agent does and that's negotiate the best contract they can. Your made up "let's say" scenario is bogus. So are a lot of your "ifs."

We didn't walk away because billionaires generally don't take the first no as a final answer. They keep negotiating until they get what they want.

Ultimately, players are in charge of their own wellbeing. Resources were made available to Watson and taking advantage of some of them was, allegedly, written in the contract. Going to therapy doesn't necessarily guarantee getting positive results from it.

Making things up, then writing as if those negative things happened without any evidence doesn't make a good argument.

I think the shoulder injury he sustained in game 3 of 2023 is what lead to his demise. The 6 games in 2022 after the league made him sit out for 11 weeks is what it is. He was functioning fine weeks 1 thru 3 last year until the scramble and he inside the 5 by a Titans player. He missed 3 weeks after that and then tried to come back against Indy and his arm looked horribly weak. He missed a few more weeks and then finally came back and looked good vs the Cardinals and on the road vs the Ravens. Then he had should surgery and this year he did not look good in any game. He looked reluctant to throw deep and was always checking the ball down. That injury in week 3 2023 played a larger role in the failure of Watson in Cleveland than anything else.

That's not what Dan Campbell says.


3-14 are the facts. Anything else is empty rhetoric. This is what five seasons with AB in charge has gotten us.


And therein lies the difference in successful GM's and those who have failed. Successful GM's manage to build a winning roster in the face of all that. Failed GM's do not. AB has failed.

I saw that posted several places on FB as well. The problem seems to be that Joe is overlooking the fact that not everybody has the same priorities.

Some great players would also remember spending their entire career never having a chance to compete or to play in or win a SB. All the losses they were a part of. Those are memories too.

If looking back and feeling like you wasted your career and talent is high on your priority list, leaving the Browns based on the evidence makes sense to Myles. I can't say I question his judgement on that.

You hear people say that you should do what's best for your career and family. Until they don't like the decisions one makes for their career and their family.

I gotta be honest... that quote makes Joe look really bad. Pro sports is about winning. Beer league and kids leagues are about friendships and memories.

Washington accomplished that by changing everything. From the owner on down, everyone was replaced. It looks like it might be a pretty good roadmap to follow. Sadly that's beyond our control.

Changing everything isn't a road map. It is a single panel cartoon that we've seen before.

Washington just saw it too. I suppose you missed that.

Five years.... five years.

Washington's plan resulted in changing "everything." Like us they had some good pieces that are still there despite your gross oversimplification. Changing everything by itself wasn't the plan. The biggest factor allowing that "plan" to work was adding Jayden Daniels. Unfortunately, there is only one of him, and we can't just replicate him.

Finding an answer at QB is where we have to start any plan. Changing "everything" for the sake of change is a recipe for more pain. Give me an actual plan for what to change and what to replace them with with actual names instead of an essentially meaningless "change everything." There's a lot of information on road maps. There's a reason you don't find them printed on paper the size of those pieces found in fortune cookies. ...There's a job you might excel at--fortune cookie stuffer.

I agree. There is no use in crying over spilled milk. It has been long enough that the milk should be wiped clean and just move on. It is what it is.

Explain how Washington changed their owner? I am not saying that to rub you...I am just saying that is how the cards fell in Washington and probably what you were trying to say.

We have bungled two pretty big situations. First, the whole Baker deal, and now the Garrett situation. I suppose we could add in the Watson deal. Whether we should have made the deal or not, nobody foresaw how impotent Watson has been as a QB. Those are three pretty big things that have us snookered at the moment.

Yet it was the talk of many fans and sportswriters leading up to his first start with the Browns. It was just the Browns organization and leadership and a few fans, that didn’t foresee the obvious. Not to mention his injuries this past season was fairly easy to predict because of his lack of physical activity and playing time over tha past few years.

Either there was a change in ownership of the Washington Commanders or there wasn't. Semantics do nothing to change that.

The owner changed. The GM changed. The HC and entire coaching staff changed. So did a major shakeup in the roster.

We have watched this FO flail their arms in an abject failure to find an actual QB now for five years. Five years. And people who just want to keep giving them more leash are posting nothing but Bull at this point.

And Perfect is right. A lot of people saw this coming when watson was signed. It is quite true some only considered his previous numbers and a highlight reel. They ignored everything else. While others knew you couldn't get all the answers from a stat sheet and a highlight reel. Sometime when you rely too much on analytics alone mistakes are made. This is a prime example of it.

Dayum. Foul on the play!

I’ll just say this: I told you all the DW trade was a bad we’d regret from jump. I tried to find anything to make it a positive, but it was the biggest bumble I’ve ever seen at this level. Now we get to pay the price. I just wish the OBJ diva daddies and LeBrons would stop interfering in Browns affairs. They never help.

Myles will either stay or move on. The Browns have him in a binding contract that both sides have to honor. So I guess we will see who is who moving forward. I think Myles deserves to play for a title, just like I felt about Joe. But Myles doesn’t get to play Mr. Nice guy to the fans while ish talking the team. I don’t want to dislike him because he’s on of my favorite players in the sport. But I also believe in the team’s right to keep him up to 4 more years with time on contract and franchise tags. And it would be idiotic for the brown’s to let him go without major compensation. DW trade type compensation, imo. Rock me hard place for this fan.

Now you bring your tirade to the Pure Football forum. Bravo.

You have to admit that was a funny burn.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile.