DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage Sees Bright Future With Browns (Dispatch Article)

With foundation in place, Savage sees bright future for Browns
Saturday, January 5, 2008 3:06 AM
By James Walker

BEREA, Ohio -- At the beginning of training camp, Cleveland Browns general manager Phil Savage made a comment that proved prophetic.

"We're excited about what is going to happen this year," Savage said. "We feel like we are really going to make some progress and it's just a matter of time before the Browns are a legitimate, contending team."

The statement rang hollow at the time. The Browns were coming off a 4-12 season, and coach Romeo Crennel was on the hot seat. But with Savage's vision and shrewd moves, the Browns made a turnaround, winning 10 games and just missing the playoffs in the duo's third season.

"I feel so good about the team, because I feel like our window is just now opening," Savage said. "Because of the key players we have at the most critical positions, there's no reason to think we can't be better over the next few years."

Each of Savage's three draft classes performed well. Whether it was receiver Braylon Edwards ascending to Pro Bowl level in his third season or Joe Thomas becoming a stalwart left tackle in his first, much of Cleveland's homegrown talent stepped up in 2007.

Thomas and second-round cornerback Eric Wright became opening-day starters, and fifth-round cornerback Brandon McDonald played well in the second half of the season.

"The Browns as an organization did a great job in evaluating and bringing in guys they thought would come in and help the team," Wright said. "Then I think we did a pretty good job (performing)."

The development of draft picks not only helps the team but also gives Cleveland's scouting staff confidence.

"I think half the battle was convincing everybody that we do have a clue and we do know what we're doing," Savage said. "Sometimes it takes a little longer than expected. In Braylon's case, he's a wide receiver, so you've got to have good line play and good quarterback play before a receiver can really show what he can do."

Savage hand-picked the starting five on the offensive line in the past two years. In addition to Thomas, he picked up free-agent guards Eric Steinbach and Seth McKinney in the offseason after adding center Hank Fraley and right tackle Kevin Shaffer in 2006.

The quarterback situation also came together, though in an unexpected way. The Browns traded up to draft Brady Quinn in the first round, then traded starter Charlie Frye to Seattle after the first game.

"It wasn't like we woke up that Monday morning and said, 'Let's trade Charlie Frye,' " Savage said. "About two weeks before camp ended, I got a call from Seattle, and they expressed interest in Charlie specifically. So I felt like I had that as a possibility in my pocket.

"Once the (Pittsburgh) game went the way it did -- I still have it in my notes where I just wrote down I didn't feel it would work out like we wanted it to -- so the next day in the coach's meeting and the game review, I said, 'I think I could get Charlie Frye traded as soon as today. Are we on board to do it? Because I'm in favor of doing it.' "

Many expected third-year player Derek Anderson merely to fill in until Quinn was ready to take over, but Anderson had a breakout season, throwing for 3,787 yards and 29 touchdowns and surprising even the Browns.

"If somebody were to have said (after the first game) that Derek would have thrown 22 touchdowns and 11 interceptions and the team is 7-4 and swept the Ravens, I would have said, 'I'll sign up. Where does that line form?' " Savage said Nov. 28.

Savage's one-year signing of running back Jamal Lewis also turned out well. Lewis rushed for 1,304 yards and had 11 touchdowns. Savage had a large part in drafting Lewis in Baltimore eight years ago and knew Lewis would be hungry after the Ravens released him.

Cleveland will spend much of its offseason upgrading the defense, which was ranked No. 30 in the NFL. The Browns lacked playmakers and allowed 129.5 rushing yards per game while recording just 28 sacks.

"We have to definitely add some more depth on the defense," Crennel said. "We have some young corners, we have some young linebackers. I think we have to get more youth and depth along the defensive line and try to get another impact pass rusher."

The Browns will have approximately $30 million of cap room, Savage said. With no first-round draft pick, they should have enough flexibility to make at least two impact signings.

Some of the names being mentioned include Baltimore Ravens linebacker Terrell Suggs, Tennessee Titans defensive lineman Albert Haynesworth and Chicago Bears linebacker Lance Briggs.

The team also needs to decide what to do with Anderson and Lewis, who will be free agents.

Both sides appear optimistic that Lewis will return next season. Anderson's situation is more unpredictable, as several teams could be looking to sign or trade for a quarterback.

"We're looking forward to the offseason because we don't feel we have as many holes to fill," Savage said. "So there's some confidence in that. But we still have to go out and do a good job to try to upgrade the team."

jwalker@dispatch.com
dispatch

Aside from the Frye comments, not much new, except for some of the off-season tidbits, like the fact that they're mentioning names like Suggs, Briggs, and Haynesworth. If we could sign two of those guys, it'd be amazing. Talk of resigning Jamal is good as well. I think that should get done within the next week or so. But I'm just guessing there. Overall, it's nice to know that we're only a few pieces away and we're pretty much in the driver's seat when it comes to cap space and how we want to handle some of the situations revolving around this team right now. It's a good comfortable position for once. Something we haven't been able to say for a verrrryy long time.

Thanks for the read Kardiac...

Yeah, the Frye comment caught me a little off guard.. Seems to me I remember either reading or hearing something similar.. I mean that we were offered something for Charlie before the opener..

That actually worked out way better than we ever thought possible I think..

As for my thinking, I prefer to sign DA to a long term contract and let the chips fall where they may in camp between him and Quinn.. May the best man win..

Then after the winner gets either his first year starting (quinn) or his second year starting (DA) under thier belts,,, then it's much easier to make a decision as to which one to trade.

The VERY BEST thing that could happen is that Quinn wins the job in camp.. we keep DA for the year,, having not had to play, there won't be any drop in value (or at least there shouldn't be) and we can trade him... get more picks and really load up for a run the following year.. (incidently, the 5th year of the RAC and Savage era)

As for Lewis,, I really really want him resigned... I actually can't believe I'm saying that.. based on what I thought when we first signed him anyway.. but he proved me to be way wrong....

A 2 year + deal would be great.

30 Million in Cap Space..,, I had heard it could be that high... We have the money to make a real splash in FA in a couple of months....

As stated a couple weeks ago Briggs is their #1 guy right now. Not that I agree but it is what it is. It will continue to come out in the media over the next few weeks.

Suggs would be nice but would we flip Wimbley or keep him where he is. Interesting.

I hope they play the LBs like the Steelers do, play the zone blitz, and disguise where the 4th rusher is coming from. It does us no good to constantly rush Wimbley off the edge every single solitary time. I'd rather see some more use of the ILBs to get to the QB.

Yeah but, do you really think RAC will open the competition at QB if they resign DA to a long-term deal? I think that resigning him long-term suggests that he's your starter. You don't throw that kind of money at a player and then tell him he has to compete for the starting job in camp. DA and his agent will want assurances or else they'll demand a trade. Besides, if he loses the job in camp and sits behind Quinn, his value won't be anywhere near where it is right now. People will ask "Why isn't he the starter? Oh there must be a reason. We don't want him." Aside from that, who knows what the QB class will be coming out of college in '09. Right now, it doesn't look very strong in '08. Just another factor adding to DA's current marketability.

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...we keep DA for the year,, having not had to play, there won't be any drop in value (or at least there shouldn't be) and we can trade him... get more picks and really load up for a run the following year..

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The thing is this. If he stays here for all of next year, at the end of the last game he no longer belongs to the Browns so they can't trade him. He becomes an un-restricted free agent and is free to sign with anyone he wants, all on his own, and the Browns have no say about it and get no compensation for it.

If they hope to trade him or surrender him to another team's contract and receive draft picks in compensation it must be done this season while he is still under contract with the Browns.

Those 3 names are HUGE.

If we have the ability to sign 2, like they say, the #1 priority is Haynesworth, followed by Suggs IMO then Briggs. I can see Savage going after Suggs since he's familiar with him and seems to enjoy raiding his former mates.

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Yeah but, do you really think RAC will open the competition at QB if they resign DA to a long-term deal?

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Yes I do.. others have said this,, they have money and a High pick invested in Quinn.. sooner or later, they need to find out if he's the real deal,, I suspect they will INDEED give him a shot in camp.

Well, some of us were predicting that Frye would never be a starting quality NFL QB prior tto the season. I hate that I was right on that .... but am glad as well, because Frye would never have, nor ever will, have a season half as good as Anderson had. If Frye were still the starter, we'd have had "O Line issues" still ....... Edwards would have "underperformed" this year ..... and I also don't think that Lewis would have had the season he did without the deep passing game opening up the run. Quinn probably would have been thrown into the fire, and no one knows how that would have turned out. (though many love to speculate)

Our OL solidified this season ..... but I think it got a bit of bad rap in previous years also. I am NOT saying that we didn't need to upgrade certain spots ...... nor am I unhappy that we did ..... but the difference between Frye's time under Center when compared and contrasted with Dilfer and Anderson was night and day. Frye had escapability ..... but often "escaped" into sacks. He had no pocket feel, nor presence. He appeared to have problems with even a primary read, and thus had in inordinate number of checkdown plays, resulting in a high completion percentage, but little production.

While some love to berate Anderson .... he was as big a reason the offense solidifed this season as any other player or coach. Hs presence, calm in the pocket and huddle, and even keel nature allowed the offense to develop as a unit. I think tha he benefitted from the players around him ..... but that they benefitted from him in return.

We are headed in the right direction....Mr. Savage will keep us headed that way....I only hope that the nasty taste the in their mouths from having the Playoffs in their grasp only to let it slip away is horrible and motivational enough to push us over the top next season.....A tough lesson learned I hope....When You Control Your Own Destiny , The One To Blame Is Yourself....Let's chalk it up as a character builder look forward to further improvements in 2008.... ....

I don't even want to talk about Frye,, it's yesterdays news,, we have so many exciting things that are ahead,, that's where I want to focus..., to hell with the past....

Good point Kardiac. You know what they say. Out of sight out of mind. If we sign and trade DA it will either be on draft day or a couple weeks into training camp. Otherwise his value will be significantly lower.

Heldawg - who said Briggs was #1 on our list of free agents?

good read.

I dont like haynsworth, more of a gut attitude/character issue for me. I would take a somewhat lesser player in justin smith. JMO
i wish there were a couple huge FA's this year with all the cap room but that justisn'tt he case.

It's a little inside tidbit that I get every once in a while. Consider it a rumor.

Consider it considered

Well, from what I recall, the only problem Haynesworth ever had was last season and IMO he somewhat redeemed himself with how he handle the situation afterwards. He definitely seemed very remorseful. I would love to have him, but I think he will remain a Titan.

You guys can't be serious about the OL.

Witness one Jeff Garcia who sucked here behind our OL then went to Detroit and sucked there behind their OL. He then went to Philly and played lights out behind that OL and again this season in Tampa behind their OL.

What you said 'peen about a QB making an OL look good or bad has some merit. But the idea that you can take one guy out, like Shawn O'Hara, and put him with 4 other guys who are much better than ours and use that to say, "See, our talent wasn't so bad", is misleading.

Our talent was bad. Our OL has been horrible. We may have had one or two decent players over that time but never enough to make even an average line.

This year we saw what an OL looks like. An above average OL. Maybe one of the best pass protecting OL's in the league. It's true that DA gets rid of the ball quickly and that helps greatly. But it's also true that very often he had time to stand in the pocket and read the field. That is a luxury that none of our OL's provided any of our quarterbacks since our return in 1999.

Detmer, Couch, Holcomb, Garcia, McCown, Dilfer and Frye all ran for their lives behind our OL's. Derek Anderson ended up on the IR last season after playing only 3 games behind that line.

This season was different and it was mainly because of the OL.

I think you are right, but I also think YTown and Peen are right.

The offensive line was improved this year. No doubt about it. However, if we still had a Frye or a Timid......there were have been plenty of sacks. I also think DAs quick reads helped the sacked numbers. Hank Fraley said the same thing in a recent interview.

Therefore, I see it as a combination of improved play from the offensive line and having a QB who doesn't hold the ball too long. It's not one w/out the other.

Dilfer was sacked 23 times in 333 pass attempts in 2005. As a comparison, he was also sacked 23 times in 226 pass attempts in his Super Bowl season in Baltimore.


Charlie Frye played in a few games that season, with 164 pass attempts. He was sacked 22 times in those 164 attempts, or roughly twice as often as Dilfer. Dilfer, not known as a long ball threat, did average 6.97 yards/attempt, and Frye averaged 6.11 yards.attempt.

Frye did the OL no favors that year, nor did he progress the next. He still misread pressure and blitzes, and checked down so frequently that one would almost expect that we had 3 yard pass plays as a staple in the playbook.

In 2006. Frye played most of the season, and was sacked 44 times in 393 pass attempts. He averaged 6.24 yards per attempt, despite this including the start of the season with the projected starting OL. (Minus Bentley, but plus Fraley) Anderson played most of his time behind a makeshift (at best) OL. He still managed to go downfield more than Frye, and despite a lower completion % still averaged about a half yard more per attempt. He was also sacked 8 times in his 117 pass attempts. That projects to roughly 2/3 of Frye's sack total given a comparable number of pass attempts, and this was despite having the OL in a state of almost constant flux ...... and having Tucker leave the team with his personal issues.

A team cannot have a horrible OL and a successful QB ..... however a QB can just as effectively make a so-so OL look really putrid.

God Vers I do not want to rehash the whole CF vs DA threads of the past, that is old news but I pose this question to you. How big a roll did Northcutts drops and BE poor route running have to do with the poor play of the QB?? This whole arguement over the past is mute. There were, and are valid points on both sides of this issue. You Vers said over and over again that JJ was told to FO by BE when he tried to help with his route running, then throw in a guy that runs good routes but drops the ball and you have a QB that checks down and holds the ball, more often then you would like IMHO.

Vers I know what you were saying and your the only one that even hinted at there being more involved then just the QB.

The O Line was horrid until this season, God you all must be kidding. Blaming the poor play of the line on the QB and not taking everything into consideration is well not well thought out.

Then factor in the true experts (PS and RAC) both said better line play was key to unlocking the Browns offense, as did you Vers, and about 50% of the rest of us and then you see the results of better line play, and hell going back and blaming the QB, is without merit unless you take every detail into consideration. Oft times I see folks leave a lot of the big picture unpainted, and this is yet another example of just that. The point is we don't know all, nor have we considered all the ingredients to the problem. As always IMHO to much has been left out, and the rest is just speculation. What we do know is that we vastly improved the line, and we now have a successful offense. If that tells me anything its that more then likely the problem runs a lot deeper then the QB..

I go with what IMHO is proof that the O line sucked, we signed ES, we signed, SM, and we drafted JT, and 4 of the 5 starters were either here for their 1st season or where playing different positions, and you all are still placing blame on the QB. I am certain all the QB's played a roll, but you go back over the history of every QB we have had here since our return, and explain why not one of those QB's was able to consistantly crack a 75 QB rating? The idea that CF stands alone in poor QB play is stupid and without merit, every single QB that came thru Cleveland from the time of the return has sucked, and the one thing I see being left out is that they all to the very last one of them played behind a horrid O Line. Yeah your all correct ALL the QB's just sucked....

I can't help but to go back to something that PS said earlier this season. He said that DA was able to develop in a manner that you would want to develop a QB, and then on top of that when he was finally named the starter, he was put in the best of situations to succeed. Again that was all left out of all these posts.

At the end of the day if you want to blame everything on the QB, then hell go ahead I choose to dig down and identify the root cause, and that starts at the O line. If you want a QB to succeed you have got to protect him, and we have been pis poor at doing that for way to long, prior to this season, that is.

So to me going back and revisiting a long dead issue is without merit. Who the hell knows how things would have gone over the past what 8 years if we had created an enviroment for any of the QB's that have passed thru Cleveland, to actually have a chance at success?



As always it's either the QB, or the coach, for most fans. I agree, NOT...

I think you misunderstood my point. I was saying that Charlie and Timid would be sacked more times than DA would if they played behind the very same line. I wasn't talking about completion percentage, points, etc. It was strictly about whether or not a QB can help his offensive line by delivering the ball on time.

You had posted recently about 3rd down conversions.....in some thread, somewhere. Haven't seen anyone bring them up, but here they are for the past few seasons:

2002- 90/222

2003- 74/202

2004- 59/203

2005- 67/203

2006- 70/209

2007- 86/204

The number of 3rd down plays remained fairly consistent each year, but the number of successful conversions has trended upwards a great deal, as you stated as a fact.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/cle/stats?year=season_2007

3 and outs may be a lot harder to track down.......I wish we could build a comprehensive database of our own.....

Thanks for looking that up. I didn't really state it as a fact, because I really didn't know. I was pretty sure from watching the games that we did a much better job on 3rd downs this year.

I remember the St. Louis game and the Seattle games where we had a lot of 3rd and longs...mostly due to penalties....and we kept making long completions to keep the chains moving. It was so different than those dump-off, give-up passes that we have been used to seeing.

Now........I know you don't like DA, but hear me out on this: That completion percentage stat is being thrown out a lot around here on why DA is not very good. I agree that it is important, but we have had plenty of QBs who would throw a 2 yd. pass to the flat on 3rd and long and we would miss the first down by several yards...yet their completion percentage would increase. DA didn't do that........I'll take points, TD to Interception ratio, Yards per Attempt, and 3rd Down Success Rate ...any day of the week.

One more thing..........we might not be able to document the three and out rate, but in your opinion.......did we have fewer this year than in years past?

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Now........I know you don't like DA, but hear me out on this:

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For the record, so as to not have things taken out of context-----I don't have a dislike for DA.

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That completion percentage stat is being thrown out a lot around here on why DA is not very good. I agree that it is important, but we have had plenty of QBs who would throw a 2 yd. pass to the flat on 3rd and long and we would miss the first down by several yards...yet their completion percentage would increase. DA didn't do that........

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I don't care about ANY of Derek Anderson's stats......my eyes tell me that he habitually throws into double/triple coverage, and he often throws behind and most often above receivers. My eyes tell me that on a lot of passes that were completed, he had a lot of help from his receivers. My eyes ALSO tell me that a lot of times he makes very excellent throws.......and my sincere hope is that we sign him to a long term deal and may the best man win.

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One more thing..........we might not be able to document the three and out rate, but in your opinion.......did we have fewer this year than in years past?

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I would wager that we did in fact move the chains on a more consistent basis this year than in season's past.....but this is one area that if you were able to utilize ALL of the pertinent stats it would lead to a conclusion. But how many were aided by penalty vs how many were a result of us executing. Lots of variables......

Yep, Suggs should be a good fit.

The problem is we need some DE's and DT's- not just one, but a bunch of them. I don't think that there is going to be that quick fix in FA. They will have to find some gems in the draft and hope they can contribute quickly.

I want Jaguar's " D " Line . Wholly Cow , they ate up Pits " O " line .. Most times it was just a four man front with no blitzing ... What a line

And in our 3-4, it is a different deal....our backers are the ones who need to do the eating while the D-line occupies a few players.

Oh i understand Peen ; But I was just Dreaming of a front seven that could eat up Pit. like the Jag's did last night . A thing of Beauty

Savage has been drafting for an attack style Defense, and Rac/grantham have a bend dont break philosophy. We became more aggressive down the stretch and that helped a lot but we went right back to the bend dont break over and over.

look down this roster and u see defenders with an attacking aggressive mentality. I think a lot of D struggles is due to them being asked to play a different game than what these kids were born to play.

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Savage has been drafting for an attack style Defense, and Rac/grantham have a bend dont break philosophy. We became more aggressive down the stretch and that helped a lot but we went right back to the bend dont break over and over.

look down this roster and u see defenders with an attacking aggressive mentality. I think a lot of D struggles is due to them being asked to play a different game than what these kids were born to play.

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That would lead one to believe that RAC plays no role in telling Savage what kind of players he wants and Phil just goes out and drafts that type of players he himself wants regardless of what the coach feels he needs.

I think more to the truth is that Savage is getting the kind of players RAC wants, at the positions he wants them, contingent upon what's available, but the defense is still lacking the talent, especially up front, for RAC to actually run the defensive philosophy he wants to run.

Once this front 7 gets fixed I believe we'll see a different defense than the "bend but don't break" we've been seeing.

You bend but don't break when you can't attack and dominate.

It's coming.

But it was a good attempt to blame RAC for being the dummy.

Savage came from a Ravens system that is built upon aggression. Look at the drafting of DQ a guy known for slicing through and making plays in the backfield. Leon Williams isnt good in coverage but he is very good when he is allowed to attack. Look at Shaun and Robaire. they arent your holdem at the line players. They are go gettem players.

Romeo comes from the parcells tree where the term bend dont break was invented. Grantham in Houston was even more soft zone than anything u will ever see from the parcells coaching tree. I think Romeo would likely prefer more

Your post ended incomplete. ::shrug::

I'm sure you were going to say more.

Is the NE defense of a bend but don't break variety as well, (I'm asking), because that is where RAC's success as a DC comes from.

I insist that so long as the DL is in the condition that it is then this defense cannot be as aggressive as it would like to be. The LB's are constantly fighting off blocks. It's one thing to be able to shed a block, it's another to have to do it all game long.

oops sorry about that. I was saying Romeo prefers a much more aggressive scheme than Grantham but it still isnt close to the system Savage is coming from.

I think Grantham is fearful.

Kinda like playing not to lose. He know the talent level may not let him do some of the things he wants to do, but then again, and he doesn't know this, maybe they can.

I think they'll be much improved after this offseason.

I won't believe anything other than Phil is going to upgrade well enough to allow us to be at least a middle of the pack defense next season. Everything he has set out to address has been at least moderately successful. That's so much more than can be said of previous regimes.

FYI.... Bend but don't break has been around a long time. In fact the Browns' defense of the late 1960's was referred to as the "Rubber Band' defense. Bend but don't break.