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I think Grantham is fearful.
Kinda like playing not to lose. He know the talent level may not let him do some of the things he wants to do, but then again, and he doesn't know this, maybe they can.
I think they'll be much improved after this offseason.
I won't believe anything other than Phil is going to upgrade well enough to allow us to be at least a middle of the pack defense next season. Everything he has set out to address has been at least moderately successful. That's so much more than can be said of previous regimes.
I agree, Grantham is fearfull. He is probably afraid to turn his D loose because draws and swings would go forever.
We need a dominate NT. That is a start. The Smiths and Kelley are average at best and that might be optimistic. Our LBs are slow and Whimbley was a non-factor. McG is just drawing a paycheck. Savage has his work cut out for him this offseason. Haynesworth would be an excellent start.
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I mentioned early on I'm not impressed with TG...
I think he really doesn't know how to run the 34 the way Rac needs it run regardless of the talent level..
Remember before the bye, the defense looked confused, they were getting beat over the top way too much...the safeties were out of position way too much..
Notice after Rac said he was going to get more involved it slowly started playing better..no coincidence to me..
Notice once more Rac wants a impact pass rusher...which in a 34 is usually a OLB...one opposite of Wimbley...
Plus the depth as he said is obviously for Roye..either a vet who puts Roye as depth early ,or a young guy who can play a lot of downs and upseat him later in the year..
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Quote:
Plus the depth as he said is obviously for Roye..either a vet who puts Roye as depth early ,or a young guy who can play a lot of downs and upseat him later in the year..
In his presser, when RAC said he wanted to improve the depth I'm sure many thought he meant as backups to our current starters. But as I watched him talk I realized that it's not really what he saying.
As a coach it's gotta be tough to talk about improving or upgrading a unit without the current starters feeling dissed by it. So RAC said "imporve the depth". Maybe I'm reading something into this but if you upgrade the talent on a unit and the current starters end up being backups, well, didn't you just improve your depth?
I just think instead of saying "replace the starters", he says "improve the depth".
After all, it's the same thing.
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Notice after Rac said he was going to get more involved it slowly started playing better..no coincidence to me..
No it's not and it shouldn't be. RAC's got 3 superbowl rings as a DC and this is Grantham's first DC gig. I'd expect RAC to know his own system better than G. In fact, I'd expect RAC to know every system better than G. It's no disgrace for G to be coached by RAC. It's the way it should be.
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I have to get this in. I don't think Grantham is the problem. I think his schemes are sound. I think he mixes things up. I think he understands defense very well. In fact, I think he has done a pretty good job overall of hiding some of weaknesses.
I think the problem is lack of talent on the defensive side. And I know we were worse this year, but I think there are two reasons for that.
1] We scored a lot of points this year. In the past teams could afford to play conservatively on offense and still beat the Browns, because the Browns didn't score many points. This year, teams were forced to be more aggressive because they knew they had to score a lot of points to stay w/us. And our liabilities were exposed when teams became more aggressive.
2] We really missed Russell. He put us in the right spot and was a very cerebral player. The FS is the QB of this defense and Pool was pathetic. Did anyone watch the Seattle/Redskin playoff game. The announcers commented on Russell two times, saying how smart he is and how he really improved their D w/his calls and knowing where to be. We missed that.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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It's always the coaches fault around here. Remember last year when many said RAC should be fired and Grantham was the next great thing? Some of those same people are now saying Grantham is the problem.
The fact is the hunt for RAC's head is now gone because the team won 10 games. The offense was much improved so there is nobody calling for Chud's head. (Not that anyone should) The defense has however taken a step back. I agree with you that a lot of that is lack of talent and the fact opposing offenses had to play more aggressive because our offense was scoring points so they had to keep up.
The problem is on this message board there is always going to be some who blame anything wrong on the coach.
To be honest it gets kind of old.
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The problem is on this message board there is always going to be some who blame anything wrong on the coach.
LOL!!! Ever been on the sidelines coaching a game when the team is losing? You should hear some of the crap that comes out of the stands. It's ALWAYS the coach's fault. 
Follow me on Twitter <a href="link" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/CoachA12</a>
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You keep saying it Vers, and in 1 2 3 hundred years the folks that always think it's nothing other then the coach will get it. If you have a great coach, and you lose because the players suck, it's still the coaches fault..  When will you learn Vers, when will you learn indeed...  Correction, sometimes they think it's somebody other then the coach, sometimes it's the QB.... How could it be anybody other then the coach or the QB, think about it Vers geeeeeee wizzzzzzzz, when will you get it. God are you ever thick..  LMAO Brown to the Bone
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Help me out here Bone,,, are you saying that if we lose games, it's ALWAYS the Coach and/or the QB's fault?
Or were you just foolin around with Vers?
I'm not clear on that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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As a coach it's gotta be tough to talk about improving or upgrading a unit without the current starters feeling dissed by it. So RAC said "imporve the depth". Maybe I'm reading something into this but if you upgrade the talent on a unit and the current starters end up being backups, well, didn't you just improve your depth?
Of course..exactly why I phrased my comment that way..Phil obviously wants to get a starting linemen in here so who goes to the bench?
More than likely Roye...
Just as S.Smith wound up starting..and he's a better NT on the roster than anyone else, we need a impact DE...
Roye is on his last legs and cannot stay healthy.
RAC's got 3 superbowl rings as a DC and this is Grantham's first DC gig. I'd expect RAC to know his own system better than G. In fact, I'd expect RAC to know every system better than G. It's no disgrace for G to be coached by RAC. It's the way it should be.
From the things I mentioned to you..there was a lot of miscommunication...then the other things came out..Rac talking to certain players ..settling them down...certain players saying certain things..asking he step in ..etc..
Notice after that certain things started happening..I noticed more creativity in the D formations and blitz schemes...some similar things I remember seeing NE run..
But whats interesting..even when all that stuff was going on , usually when discord is brought out people stop performing..didn't happen in this case..we saw the Browns D play more cohesive..while not dominating , they started getting stops and shoring up areas they were really getting exploited by..
So in my book the jury is still out on TG...while I'm not putting ALL the blame on him...there are issues...and even with Rac in that ...plus the lack of talent and new players..
Funny In Cincinnati the DC was fired for putting a defense on the field that statistically better than the Browns defense. Somehow here in Cleveland, some want to award the Browns DC.Go figure..
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I don't know Daman, perhaps if you would recall I had a pretty heated dsagreement with your friend Peen, what do you think I think. I guess I must hide where I am coming from pretty well for you not to know the answer to that question.  But at the end of the day, I think Vers knows what I am saying even if you don't?? Lets leave it at that OK!!! Brown to the Bone
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I don't know if people realize this or not, but of the last 6 games, the Browns were 4-2... Of those 2 losses, 2 were all on the offense (Arizona and Cinci) of the 4 wins, we gave up 42 points, thats 10.5 points per game... Not to mention a few of those points game in a ridiculous end to the Jets game.
The defense was great in our last 6 games, they didn't play amazing offenses, but I mean 10.5 points per game in the wins is amazing, and what can you do against Arizona and Cinci when your offense turns the ball over and stalls a ton?
![[Linked Image from i4.photobucket.com]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Defiantmac/nickk2.jpg) PRO-BOWLER!
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I don't know Daman, perhaps if you would recall I had a pretty heated dsagreement with your friend Peen, what do you think I think.
If I was sure what you meant, I wouldn't have asked you... yes, I consider peen an internet friend,, never met the man.. but I'm not sure why that's a big deal
Answer my question or don't,, doesn't matter..
No agenda Bone,, Just wanted to know what you meant. If you don't want to tell me, that's fine
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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general reply...i think the bottom line is that just like the offense, when the defense gets better talent on the front seven you will all of the sudden see an improved coach...less weaknesses means more options...stunts, blitzes....it all goes hand in hand...
just like getting rid of russell....it may have hurt us alittle this year, but pool could be better than russell with a few years under his belt....i'll even go so far as saying they ironed out there problems half way thru the year...
gotta give a youngster a chance to grow to make the position better......russells two best hits were on bodden for cryin' out lound...
this defense has a young secondary with alittle experience now...it has some backers with experience, and it has soon to be depth on the dline with experience...plug in a de, olb, and maybe a stud ilb, and this defense will stop the run much better, and start to get more pressure on the qb....
it will appear that grantham all of the sudden gets it.....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Ever seen me post:
That better talent makes for better coaches??
Changing coaches seldom fixes talent issues !!
Does that answer your question ??
Brown to the Bone
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Two basic factors held true in the Cardinals and Bengal games...stop the rush...and rush the passer.
The Browns defense gave up 133 rushing yds and failed to sack Warner in the loss against the Cards.
Against the Bengals, the defense gave up 155 rushing yds and did not sack Palmer.
You are correct about the turnovers but lets not pretend the offense was all that was wrong in both of those losses.
It was offensive turnovers and defensive failures that lead to the losses to the Bengals and Cards....WOOF...mac
GM strong...
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perhaps if you would recall I had a pretty heated dsagreement with your friend Peen,
Guess I wasn't there...I don't remember that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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perhaps if you would recall I had a pretty heated dsagreement with your friend Peen,
Guess I wasn't there...I don't remember that.
You really have to remember to take your medicine " First Thing " in the morrnin :rofl
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I can use an even bigger number of plays than those who hold up Quinn's 3-8 as an example of his impending stardom. That and the fact that he was traded for a 6th round pick one game into his season .... and went from starter to probably will never start again (my opinion) in one week. Frye had all the passing techniques down pat ..... hold the ball .... pat the ball ..... fumble the ball ..... and throw for 3 yards. IMHO ...... if Frye had reained the starter, and Anderson had been the one traded ..... the Quinn era, for good or for ill, would have already begun. My opinion is based on the lack of production of the offense, and given the results of a year and a half of games, and 2 off-seasons as the starter for Frye. IMMHO, Frye is the one who never developed. He had an impressive completion % ...... but largely due to the fact that the checkdown to a 3 yard outlet was his favorite play. Also, IMOSHO, we have no idea what would have happened had the offense not stabalized under Anderson, and had Quinn been thrown into the fire halfway through another lost season.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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No, it doesn't answer it,, Again, here is what I asked Quote:
Help me out here Bone,,, are you saying that if we lose games, it's ALWAYS the Coach and/or the QB's fault?
Or were you just foolin around with Vers?
I'm not clear on that.
If you want to be coy about it and not answer that question,, I guess that's fine..
I know that you are suspicious of me and any agenda you may think I have.. I've tried to put the anger you showed towards me in the past behind me and just let it go,, I'm trying NOT to be a pest either.
So I really didn't have an agenda,, I honestly didn't know what you meant,, so I thought I'd ask you..
If you don't want to answer, it's really fine.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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much better .... *LOL* ... remember the Opinion/Fact police are always just a click away ...  PS. Comparing Frye to DA based on what Frye did with the JUNK we had the last two of his time here is very unfair .... and thats not OPINION its a FACT .... with that said my OPINION is much like yours in that regard ... DA is a MUCH MUCH better fit for this O ... and in my OPINION did a better job than Frye could have .... is that better now that i used the word OPINION this time???? *LOL* ...
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That and the fact that he was traded for a 6th round pick one game into his season ....
Which just so happens to be the SAME round that DA was DRAFTED!
Wonder why we wasted a first round pick at the QB position while we had one all along?
Phil knows......................................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Quote:
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perhaps if you would recall I had a pretty heated dsagreement with your friend Peen,
Guess I wasn't there...I don't remember that.
You really have to remember to take your medicine " First Thing " in the morrnin :rofl
....................................
Think what you want...I could tell you what I think, but shouldn't.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I was pulling Vers leg all the way. I never have believed that all problems start and end with the coach or the QB, but I could name names, if I had too. As a matter of fact in most instances they don't have anything to do with the problem. Clear enough....  Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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