I'm of the opinion that it's all just business, but at the same time I'd love to NOT hear from him at least until TC starts up.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
The Cleveland Browns have already made a move at the quarterback position this offseason, swinging a trade for Kenny Pickett. However, there is obviously more work to be done.
While the Browns may very well select a quarterback in the NFL Draft next month, they could also stand to add another veteran to fill out the depth chart, particularly with Jameis Winston on his way out in free agency.
The name that has been attached to Cleveland the most has been Atlanta Falcons quarterback Kirk Cousins, who signed a $180 million deal with the Falcons last March but has not materialized.
Atlanta is looking to move Cousins, and Albert Breer of Sports Illustrated has revealed that the Falcons may be willing to eat his contract (which contains $100 million in guaranteed money) in exchange for a draft pick.
So, essentially, the Browns are saying, "Yeah, we'll take him off your hands, but you have to do this for us," which is an interesting decision by Cleveland.
The Browns have a horrendous financial situation as it is, so they better be sure they would be getting a pretty substantial draft choice in return to absorb Cousins' deal, which runs through 2027.
Cousins threw for 3,508 yards, 18 touchdowns and 16 interceptions before being benched after 14 starts in 2024. To be fair, the 36-year-old seemed to be dealing with shoulder and elbow injuries, but that's just the thing: the four-time Pro Bowler has become injury prone.
Let's remember that midway through 2023, Cousins tore his Achilles, effectively ending his tenure with the Minnesota Vikings.
Does Cleveland really want to take this monetary risk even if it is able to collect a draft pick out of this? We'll see what happens.
Atlanta is looking to move Cousins, and Albert Breer of Sports Illustrated has revealed that the Falcons may be willing to eat his contract (which contains $100 million in guaranteed money) in exchange for a draft pick.
So, essentially, the Browns are saying, "Yeah, we'll take him off your hands, but you have to do this for us," which is an interesting decision by Cleveland.
The Browns have a horrendous financial situation as it is, so they better be sure they would be getting a pretty substantial draft choice in return to absorb Cousins' deal, which runs through 2027
What am I missing here?
On one hand it says the falcons might be willing to eat the contract in exchange for a pick.
Then it says the Browns would need a substantial pick to absorb the Cousins deal.
That doesn't make sense
Last edited by Ballpeen; 03/15/2509:48 PM.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Atlanta is looking to move Cousins, and Albert Breer of Sports Illustrated has revealed that the Falcons may be willing to eat his contract (which contains $100 million in guaranteed money) in exchange for a draft pick.
So, essentially, the Browns are saying, "Yeah, we'll take him off your hands, but you have to do this for us," which is an interesting decision by Cleveland.
The Browns have a horrendous financial situation as it is, so they better be sure they would be getting a pretty substantial draft choice in return to absorb Cousins' deal, which runs through 2027
What am I missing here?
On one hand it says the falcons might be willing to eat the contract in exchange for a pick.
Then it says the Browns would need a substantial pick to absorb the Cousins deal.
That doesn't make sense
There's a lot of confusing scenarios attached to the Cousins deal that would leave many scratching their head.
1) The first hurdle to clear is Cousins current deal does include a no-trade clause that Cousins' team would have to waive for a trade to happen. If that clause is waived, that still wouldn't mean that a trade would happen. The Falcons would have to agree to the terms of a presented trade. There are a lot of variables here.
2) Cousins is entering the second year of a four-year deal, but the way the Falcons and Cousins' team constructed the deal, it's essentially a two-year guaranteed deal. His guaranteed base salary in 2025 is $27.5 million. His base salary in 2024 was $12.5 million. The Falcons paid Cousins a $50M signing bonus in 2024 (which they prorated at $12,500,000 per year over the term of the contract, 4-years.) In reality, the $100M guarantee boils down to the $50M signing bonus, $12.5M salary in 2024, $27.5M in 2025, and the $10M roster bonus due today March 17th, 2025; equaling $100M guaranteed.
3) It is important to note that as things currently stand, if both sides were to come to a trade agreement, a hypothetical trade could produce these two outcomes in 2025:
_____a) If Cousins is traded prior to June 1, the Falcons would take on $37.5 million in dead money with $2.5 million in cap savings.
_____b) If Cousins is traded after June 1, the Falcons would take on $12.5 million in dead money and $27.5 million in cap savings in 2025 and $25M in dead money in 2026.
In either one of these scenarios, the Brown would be taking on the 2025 $27.5M guaranteed salary and non-guaranteed years of 2026 salary of $35M with a $10M roster bonus and a 2027 salary of $35M with a $10M roster bonus. The before mentioned pretty substantial draft choice to the Browns would be in return is to absorb Cousin's deal would basically be for the $27.5M in guaranteed salary the Browns would take on via the trade. The unlikely scenario is if the Falcons absorb the $27.5M 2025 guaranteed money (it would actually only be $26.245M because Cousins has to have an NFL minimum salary of $1.255M,) the Falcons then would expect a draft pick from the Browns for fulfilling the $100M guaranteed money.
Note: This cannot be stressed enough, Cousins has a full no-trade clause, so he would have to agree to the terms of the trade as well as the Falcons. IMHO, Cousins will not consent to a trade without some type of guaranteed money over the next 3-years. I could be wrong, but I doubt Cousins will accept any deal that gives the Browns or whoever the option of just cutting him after 2025 with no financial protection.
4) The Falcons always reserve the right to release (cut) him. If they were to do so, here are the two possible outcomes for 2025:
_____a) If Cousins is cut prior to June 1, the Falcons would carry a $65 million dead money hit, all of which would count towards the cap in 2025.
_____b) If Cousins is cut after June 1, the Falcons would carry $40 million in dead money and save $0 towards the cap in 2025 plus $25M in dead money in 2026.
Note: The issue with either one of these scenarios is the Falcons just absorb the guaranteed money owed and get nothing in return plus it gives Cousins the ability to negotiate a new deal with any team (not only the Browns) and would certainly be high and filled with guarantees of some type. If the Falcons are going to be on the hook for the guarantee in 2025 no matter what, cutting him makes no sense when they could just keep him for another season that they will be paying for no matter what and cut him in 2026 without any guaranteed commitments.
Maybe this adds a little in-depth context to the article posted.
Sowhile we, fans and Browns, fixate on Cousins who seems a mixed bag IMO, may we go sideways for a moment? I respect Flacco as a bridge potentiality. Assuming they are both better than Winston, could we live with Flacco again if the Cousins option gets to be too pricey? Some posters seem to think that this QB fix has to save franchise, install a new culture e, straighten our spines, and win us a SB. I just think it is a ridiculous level of expectation. I do like the possibility of Dart; I do not want Sanders. So any feel for a comparison of serviceability of say, Cousins and Flacco?
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of getting Flacco. I just think signing a 40 plus year old QB as a 1-year bridge does nothing to rebuild the team. Second, if you look at what Berry has done thus far in signings and FA moves would indicate he is planning on winning this year (which might be a requirement for Berry and Stefanski to keep their jobs).
In the last 6-years, working from a backup role, Flacco has had 28 starts with a 9-19 record. That's what you get with Flacco. People may believe they will get the 2023 Flacco but his history and advancing age says you're more likely to get the 9-19 and playoff game in Houston Flacco. That's just MHO.
As far as the draft goes, my opinion is that there is just 1 QB in this draft that may be able to start on day 1, and that's Ward. All the other QB's look to me as projects that may or may not be successful. The key to those QB's is a solid veteran bridge QB (maybe as much as 2-years) and most importantly being drafted into a system that is built to their skill set. 90% of the QB failures in the NFL take place because the team system they are drafted into does not match their skill set. If the Browns draft a gunslinger, running QB, or one that ad libs frequently (like a Mahomes) and tries to turn them into a dink and dunker with the offense focused mainly on the run, the Browns will have another failed QB draft pick. IMHO, Stefanski has continually showed that any QB playing in Cleveland will play his system - he's clearly shown the reluctance to change.
My other concern is if Berry and Stefanski are on a prove it year as many have suggested, outside of getting a day 1 starter in the draft, any QB Berry drafts would most likely immediately be expendable due to the fact new GM's and HC's want their own guy. If they draft a project QB and sit him behind a bridge for the majority of the season, that QB would most surely would be on the chopping block by the new regime. NFL history proves this happens more often than not.
"Stefanski has continually showed that any QB playing in Cleveland will play his system - he's clearly shown the reluctance to change."
That is not true.
Last season they hired a new OC to change the offense.
You have your opinion and that's cool but if you want to include last year as his ability to "change," then why is he so animent about changing it back? Please don't tell me about his success with his program because he's still sporting a 5-year losing record. I've watched him try to change Mayfield and then Watson with DTR sandwiched in between. Finally, according to reports, Stefanski had nothing to do with hiring a new OC because Haslam was disappointed in Watson's progress and recommended a change further solidifying that Stefanski has clearly shown the reluctance to change.
Maybe reluctance to change isn't the right phrasing. Maybe inability to change/adjust his system is more accurate. He has shown that he has his system and cannot adjust to the players we have. Rather we need players who fit that system
Last season he clearly demonstrated that glaring lack of ability to adjust to take advantage of players top skills and minimize their weaknesses
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
I agree with your post. You have no choice but to react after the act to the fact. Mine was posted and addressed to those who feel their expectations need to be met, all holes filled, hit on a QB, franchise, please and more in this draft with a 2 pick somehow. Just hope to see less anxiety and hand-wringing. We can certainly do better than we have. Our FO boasts loads of upside. Hope is that Berry and Co. are working smarter AND harder in this market as things shake out.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
"Stefanski has continually showed that any QB playing in Cleveland will play his system - he's clearly shown the reluctance to change."
That is not true.
Last season they hired a new OC to change the offense.
You have your opinion and that's cool but if you want to include last year as his ability to "change," then why is he so animent about changing it back? Please don't tell me about his success with his program because he's still sporting a 5-year losing record. I've watched him try to change Mayfield and then Watson with DTR sandwiched in between. Finally, according to reports, Stefanski had nothing to do with hiring a new OC because Haslam was disappointed in Watson's progress and recommended a change further solidifying that Stefanski has clearly shown the reluctance to change.
IMO, the public comments from a majority of the Oline speaks volumes. This offense was constructed a certain way, and trying to make wholesale changes on the fly didn't work.
I'm NOT saying that that means KS is good with molding the O to his players, I'm just saying that there was more going on last year than just that.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I have a hard time believing that Myles Garrett likes the idea of Pickett and a rookie from an overall weak class. Something else has gotta be in the works.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I have a hard time believing that Myles Garrett likes the idea of Pickett and a rookie from an overall weak class. Something else has gotta be in the works.
I can tell you what Myles Garrett is not going to like.. When Rodgers retires, Russell Wilson re-signs with the Steelers and the Browns tell him "Well, we tried, it just didn't work out". Then they end up with a re-tread backup that can't beat out Pickett and a rookie that looks lost still in week 10. I can't say for certainty that Ward and/or Sanders will be total busts, but I have a hard time believing they will end up better than Baker Mayfield.. That isn't a cut on the Browns moving on from him, just a comparison of one of the better recent draft picks where they were in position to draft.
Anyone can point to last year's draft class, but frankly, the Browns wouldn't have been in the conversation any way after making the playoffs the year before. If they had not made the trade, we probably wouldn't have had the #3 overall pick in 2023 either, but if they traded Baker anyway, we might be looking at a disappointing Anthony Richardson on our roster instead.
Honestly, it works. Pickett was the backup for the Eagles..
Flacco is a capable backup.
We are going to draft a quarterback. I don't know who or where but I am pretty sure we are going to draft a guy.
nd
I agree. I think besides telling Myles what they are going to do which means it is in their control. Stefanski will not go down before drafting a QB. He has been here 5 years and has yet to draft his own QB. Ward seems to be the consensus #1 pick so a QB at #2 is what they can control and tell Myles their plan. At the combine both he and Berry spoke about decision making being the most important factor in a QB. That points to Sanders as the pick at #2. He had a b=near 70% completion percentage with 134 touchdown to 27 picks. Last year he had 37 touchdowns to 10 picks.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
I think besides telling Myles what they are going to do which means it is in their control. .
I don't believe for one second they told Garrett, specifically, what they are planning to do. Why would they? That would be dumb. Why risk a potential leak? Outside of, "hey, we intend to bring another QB," I can't imagine Berry and company would be dumb enough to give him specifics when it is wholly unnecessary.
The entire back and forth with Siciliano wreaked of PR spin to repair Garrett's image with the fans, seem like the good guy who has bought in again and that he and the team are all rowing in the same direction. The only thing that changed from now and the time he said he was not onboard with "the plan" is that he realized he overplayed his hand and the Browns were absolutely not going to trade him. He then signed the contract. There is absolute zero reason to share any plan with anyone other than QBs like Mahomes or Allen. Maybe add Burrow and Lamar to that list.
I have a hard time believing that Myles Garrett likes the idea of Pickett and a rookie from an overall weak class. Something else has gotta be in the works.
One would think, but you never know. Darn near anything we do will be an improvement. Maybe just knowing that Watson is out of the picture is good enough.
I just don't know what it might be at this point. Cousins seems to be at stalemate. Wilson made a visit but nothing has been said about that. I have been seeing some smoke about flacco but that seems a stretch to me.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I think besides telling Myles what they are going to do which means it is in their control. .
I don't believe for one second they told Garrett, specifically, what they are planning to do. Why would they? That would be dumb. Why risk a potential leak? Outside of, "hey, we intend to bring another QB," I can't imagine Berry and company would be dumb enough to give him specifics when it is wholly unnecessary.
The entire back and forth with Siciliano wreaked of PR spin to repair Garrett's image with the fans, seem like the good guy who has bought in again and that he and the team are all rowing in the same direction. The only thing that changed from now and the time he said he was not onboard with "the plan" is that he realized he overplayed his hand and the Browns were absolutely not going to trade him. He then signed the contract. There is absolute zero reason to share any plan with anyone other than QBs like Mahomes or Allen. Maybe add Burrow and Lamar to that list.
I tend to lean in your direction that this is PR spin, but I would have felt more strongly about it if this interview were before FA began. Seeing the QB situation unfold last week has given me pause about whether the team will add a vet QB and that Myles might have been told it will be one of the two QBs in the draft and that's all he was told.....because at least he knows we will get one of them either way.
I don't see the Browns trading for Cousins now and the most realistic path to get him would have been his release (I'm shocked he wasn't, BTW), even if ATL agreed to take on more of his contract as part of a trade deal. As much as Rodgers is the best available FA QB, we won't pay him what he wants, and I think the Wilson interview was posturing by both parties but for different reason. Thus, we're potentially left with either Ward or Sanders. I suppose Flacco would still be an option....
If it wasn't PR spin and the Browns did tell him, broadly speaking, what their intent was to persuade him to signing a deal, I wouldn't be surprised Berry went to him saying we like both QBs and we plan to draft one of them. And he might have ended up being good with that.....and "that" being at least he knows who will take snaps and who is the attempted 'future'.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
After resuming play in 1999 following a three-year suspension of operations, the franchise has been notable for its instability at the quarterback position. From 1999 through end of the 2024 season, the team has had 40 players start at quarterback, with only three seasons (2001 with Tim Couch, 2019 and 2020 with Baker Mayfield) in which the same quarterback started every game.
So, who have the Browns had start a game at QB since the Berry/Stefanski team took over in 2020?
2020 Baker Mayfield (16) 11-5, playoffs 1-1 Draft: Cleveland Browns in 1st round (1st overall) of the 2018 NFL Draft.
2021 Baker Mayfield (14) 6-8 July 6, 2022: The Cleveland Browns traded QB Baker Mayfield to the Carolina Panthers Case Keenum (2) 2-0 Signed by Browns in 2020 as a FA, Traded by Browns in 2022 to Bills for 2022 7th round pick Nick Mullens (1) 0-1 January 5, 2022: The Cleveland Browns signed QB Nick Mullens. March 2022: Browns release QB Nick Mullens.
2022 Jacoby Brissett (11) 4-7 March 25, 2022: The Cleveland Browns signed FA QB Jacoby Brissett. March 13, 2023: QB Jacoby Brissett declared free agency. Deshaun Watson (6) 3-3 March 21, 2022: The Houston Texans traded QB Deshaun Watson to the Cleveland Browns. Browns sign Watson to a 5-year fully guaranteed contract for $230M.
2023 Deshaun Watson (6) 5-1 Joe Flacco (5) 4-1, 0-1 playoffs December 14, 2023: The Cleveland Browns signed QB Joe Flacco to the active roster. March 13, 2024: Cleveland Browns QB Joe Flacco declared free agency. Dorian Thompson-Robinson (3) 1-2 Draft: Cleveland Browns in the 5th round (140th overall) of the 2023 NFL Draft. P. J. Walker (2) 1-1 August 31, 2023: The Cleveland Browns signed QB P.J. Walker to the practice squad. June 6, 2024: The Seatle Seahawks signed FA QB P.J. Walker. Jeff Driskel (1) 0-1 December 29, 2023: The Cleveland Browns signed QB Jeff Driskel from the Arizona Cardinals practice squad. April 1, 2024: QB Jeff Driskel elected free agency.
2024 Deshaun Watson (7) 1-6 Jameis Winston (7) 2-5 March 12, 2024: The Cleveland Browns signed QB Jameis Winston. March 11, 2025: QB Jameis Winston elected free agency. Dorian Thompson-Robinson (2) 0-2 March 10, 2025: The Cleveland Browns traded QB Dorian Thompson-Robinson to the Philadelphia Eagles. Bailey Zappe (1) 0-1 October 22, 2024: The Cleveland Browns claimed QB Bailey Zappe from the Kansas City Chiefs practice squad. March 14, 2025: The Kansas City Chiefs signed QB Bailey Zappe.
2025 Deshaun Watson October 22, 2024: The Cleveland Browns placed QB Deshaun Watson on IR. Kenny Pickett March 10, 2025: Traded by Eagles to Browns for a 2025 5th round pick and Dorian Thompson-Robinson
It's been an ugly 5-years for the Berry/Stefanski team trying to find their franchise QB. First and foremost, the Browns unwillingness to pay for a decent QB outside of Watson (ex: Mayfield, Brissett, Flacco, Winston) has helped create this mess. True to form, 2025 has continued on that cheap mandate that is far more a regular thing than not. Second, Berry/Stefanski has shown over the years that they lack the patience to see a QB develop. Just look at what the QB's have in starting experience with the Browns before being showed the door: Keenum (2), Mullens (1), Flacco (6), DTR (5), P.J. Walker (2), Driskel (1), Winston (7), and Zappe (1).
Fast forward to 2025, the Browns now have a 4th year QB on the roster with a career losing record with the Browns and currently on IR. The Browns have traded for a QB that has started only 1 game since 12/03/2023 and is in the final year of his rookie contract. How much patience will the Browns have with Pickett if he starts? If the Browns draft a QB in 2025, does the current coaching staff, FO, and fan base have enough patience to allow the rookie to throw more INT's than TD's and finish with a 3-14 record like the Colts did with Peyton Manning his rookie year or an Eli Manning who had a 1-6 record as a rookie with 6 TD's and 9 INT's as a rookie. Or how about a Joe Montana who was 2-6 in his first 2 seasons with 9 INT's in 8 games. This Browns FO and HC has not displayed that kind of patience in the past, can they do it now? Not that I'm a fan, but the Browns just dumped 5th round pick DTR after 5 starts going 1-4 with 10 INT's and 1 TD pass from a player they acclaimed was a project player.
Bottom line, do you feel the Browns will be patient with any of the QB's starting and/or proposed QB's or will it be business as usual in Cleveland?
Ranking AFC teams after first wave of NFL free agency: Chiefs lead way, Broncos improve after key additions A look at how each AFC team stands after the first week of free agency
The Browns went 3-14 last year and may be without Deshaun Watson for the 2025 season. Watson clearly has struggled since leaving H-Town, but Pickett probably isn't the long-term answer in Cleveland, either. The Browns finding a way to keep Myles Garrett was the headline of their offseason thus far, but he doesn't make the Browns a Super Bowl contender by himself. The big question for Cleveland is who will play quarterback this year? Is it Russell Wilson, or Shedeur Sanders? Kirk Cousins?
2025 NFL free agency: Biggest need remaining for every team after first wave of free-agent signings The NFL Draft is the next opportunity for teams to truly upgrade the roster By Josh Edwards
AFC North Bengals: Edge rusher Cincinnati has committed to executing contract extensions with wide receivers Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins, but one would assume those moves will prevent them from securing pass rusher Trey Hendrickson long-term -- though the team is reportedly trying to retain him. In the event that Hendrickson is gone, and following the news of Sam Hubbard's retirement, the Bengals are left with former first-round pick Myles Murphy and Joseph Ossai, who re-signed at a modest rate. The moves to bolster the interior defensive line leave edge rusher as a more pressing need.
Browns: Quarterback It sounds as though Cleveland's plan, at this time, is to sign Russell Wilson. Should that option fall through, then the team would explore signing Joe Flacco or Carson Wentz. In short, it is less than an ideal situation at the game's most important position. Cleveland is still likely to take a quarterback in the draft as well.
Ravens: Edge rusher Baltimore had little pass rush outside of 33-year-old Kyle Van Noy in 2024. The idea of Van Noy replicating that production year-over-year is unrealistic. Odafe Oweh did have 10 sacks, but his 11.7% pressure rate, according to TruMedia, ranked No. 59 among players with at least 200 pass rush snaps. Baltimore could benefit from adding true difference-making pass rusher as its prepares for the future.
Steelers: Quarterback Pittsburgh is being held hostage by veteran quarterback Aaron Rodgers after Justin Fields opted for the greener pastures of New York. The pursuit of Rodgers has probably soured Russell Wilson on the idea of returning to the Steel City for what would be a second season. The franchise did bring back Mason Rudolph, but one would assume they are a team in the mix to draft a quarterback as well.
Last edited by steve0255; 03/18/2511:35 AM. Reason: spelling
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
It is too soon to tell the future. It's not too late to report the past.
I believe the past speaks for itself 3-14. He said here is where teams stand after 1st week of free agency. I wonder where Washington was ranked in March 2024. How about Denver's March 2024 ranking. To rank teams in March is way too early to tell. Most teams are incomplete reads at this time.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
I'm not sure what you were expecting for a FA year where we started ~$15m (?) over the cap and a potential contract holdout with our best player, and no room to sign an impactful FA due to cap over the next few years.
I'm shocked anyone has us ranked that high. Our current QB room is Pickett.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
It's simply a snapshot of where the Browns are as of now. Like all the other teams listed. I don't see where there were any predictions at to where these teams will be ranked moving forward. You can always get contributors later in the FA market that can change where things stand then. My point is there's no reason not to take a look at where the Browns stand as of today.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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