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I’m at the point that I hope some team coughs up a couple firsts for our #2.

I'm inching closer to that same place. Concerned about Carter's injuries, concerned about Hunter's 185lb frame. Don't want Prime Time in my locker room.

I’m with you. Damned if you do. Damned if you don’t. Damned if you do otherwise. #Lifeasabrownsfan

I like Carter a lot but I do have concerns about his injuries, I kind of hope we trade back to the 10-12 range while picking up extra picks and draft Jeanty the RB from Boise St.

Especially if the draft is weak in our positions of need.

Deshaun on Insta

I have since the beginning been one of his biggest critics but we’re both humans and when I see someone trying to do better it deserves praise.

To call the last five years a journey from hero to zero is probably an understatement.
Money solves many things but in the end we all want to be appreciated for who we are.

I sincerely hope that Deshaun has the courage, humility and the inner strength to do some sort of mini successful comeback. Just prove his doubters a little bit that he’s not finished yet.

It’s funny how time sometimes change our (at least my) perception.

It’s not fair to say that Watson was a victim for his actions (the allegations) but in some capacity he’s a victim of false expectations and bad decision making from others. I’m not talking about the money he got, that’s solely on the Haslams and the Browns FO, but all the other things that followed his trade from Houston to Cleveland.

A lot of water has now run under the bridges and for me now is the time for some sort of forgiveness.

He will always be responsible for his actions but as far as I know all the legal cases are settled. Hopefully all women have moved on, with or without the compensation they got, and so must we as human beings and in some cases also Browns supporters do.
That’s why I’m a little bit rooting for him and wish him well in his recovery. If he one day stand on the sideline in a Browns uniform I will stand behind him and give him the best support I can.

I have much harder to forgive those who were involved in the decision process despite they had the information about his past actions.

They have from my perspective no excuses. They defended him, they tried to justified their stupid decision and they even expected the Browns nation to do the same. That’s unforgivable. I don’t see any remorse or accountability from our GM and HC. Zero. Nada. Nill.

It’s not only about bad decision making. They failed on so many levels. Lack of everything you expect from leaders in their position. Now they want to move on and forget about the past. Jim has washed his hands. The rest including the fake local journalists is dead silent.

Deshaun is in my eyes still a Cleveland Brown as long as they pay him his salary.
Those with a backbone are there in both good and bad times.

So Deshaun finally feels like he's ready to embrace the challenge?

Great news!

Blind loyalty isn't loyalty at all. Having a backbone doesn't mean bending over and spreading your cheeks. I wouldn't support my brother if he were a sexual predator either. Bad times is when something bad happens to you. Self inflicted wounds that make others your victims isn't someone going through "bad times".

When it comes to sexual offenders, especially those who have committed something that’s hard to prove then the social consequences often can be as damaging as a punishment from the juridical system. From a moral and an ethical standpoint it also raises the question when is the right time for some sort of forgiveness so we all can move on?

I prefer to believe in forgiveness, that most people can change to the better. I believe in a second chance.

There’s a lot to criticize when it comes to Deshaun and maybe you all are right and I’m wrong but at some point we all have a choice.
My choice is to believe in him wanting to do better without judging his past as an indicator of his true intentions.

Maybe that’s a little bit hypocritical and to be fully consistent I should do the same with Jimmy Haslam, Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski, and maybe some day I will forgive all their stupidities as the Browns decision makers and move forward..

Side note.

US have both legally and in general a less forgiving attitude to those who have committed a crime or any wrong doing. In som states they have death penalty. You also have a system where you can be sent to prison for life, and in general the punishments is harder and longer than we have in the northern part of Europe. I’m not trying to debate what’s better but I will try to give an another perspective from my part of the world. In Scandinavia we don’t have death penalty. In general a life sentence is nearly never longer than 20 years and if the prisoner behave well he can get a reduction of a couple of years and maximum 1/3 of the time. Our view to crime is probably softer and maybe that’s naive.

Good move. He should help stabilize the position and help any QB we draft. I agree that we should never have let him go.

For me it's far more easy to forgive stupidity than something done with malice. But that's just me. All people make honest mistakes. Then there's.....

Let's see if the Falcons waive Cousins. I don't think Cleveland will make a trade for him, but if he is waived, does Berry sign Cousins or not?

Do we sign Cousins when we Have Flacco and Pickett? Nope. I suspect there were some conversations with Cousins and those conversations led us to Flacco.

Agreed. I'd be surprised if Cousins is part of the plan and someone the FO is trying to get after signing Flacco. In my opinion, Flacco was the backup if discussions to trade for Cousins fell through and could have been both teams couldn't agree to draft capital compensation and or salary responsibility between both teams.

But IF the Falcons waive him, he would complete our QB room this year giving us a solid shot at making the post season. And at the right price he could bridge for us for a couple years. Flacco is the better option IMO but he’s older and may not have the gas for an entire season. We’ll see. If we take a rookie this year, we don’t want to see the in games imo. Another 4 QB season may be what we’re doing.

Who knows, Flacco and Ski might get Pickett fixed this year…

Deshaun Watson insurance policy provides silver lining for Browns
By
Mike Florio

Published April 12, 2025 07:36 AM
The Browns have finally admitted that the Deshaun Watson contract was a disaster. Within the perpetual storm cloud is a silver lining, however.

The contract, a copy of which PFT has obtained, contains an insurance addendum that allows the Browns to purchase coverage “in the event player is unable to perform the services required by his NFL Player Contract due to an NFL football-related or non-football related injury or death resulting therefrom.”

For an injury occurring between the start of the 2024 offseason program and the start of the 2025 offseason program, the contract allows for $58.176 million to be recovered by the Browns.

The formula is as follows: $12.691 million in 2024 signing bonus; $1.21 million in 2024 base salary; and $44.274 million of $46 million in 2025 base salary.

Watson suffered a torn Achilles in Week 7 of the 2024 season. If the insurance is based on the portion of the season Watson played, they’d presumably get all of the $12.691 million from the 2024 signing bonus (which was more than $40 million), less than half of his $1.21 million 2024 base salary, and (if as expected he doesn’t play in 2025) $44.274 million for 2025.



It’s more than $55 million of the $230 million albatross contract. Which will reduce the salary-cap pain. Given that $135 million of the $230 million deal has yet to hit the cap, that’ll make a huge difference for the Browns in the coming years.

If, that is, they actually collect on the policy. Insurance companies love taking money in. They hate paying money out. And with more than $55 million on the line, the insurance company’s lawyers will be scouring the policy for any and all exceptions or exclusions that would justify a denial.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profo...policy-provides-silver-lining-for-browns

No doubt the insurance company will investigate but it probably won't be drawn out like can happen if you or I file a personal injury claim or get into some large class action lawsuit where it can take years. Half of that strategy is to out lawyer you over a period of years. That stands less chance of happening v. an NFL team.

You also have to consider that there are a limited number of insurance companies that underwrite such a policy. They know the risk associated and adjust their premiums accordingly. The company that wrote this has probably had dealings writing policies for other NFL teams. They might not be as eager to drag this out in an attempt to strongarm an NFL team at the risk of alienating all the teams in the league.

Unless there is something totally out of right field, they will pay.

I agree Peen...my bigger concern is that the insurance company claims bankruptcy. Jimmah would then not get the cash, but the league could (should?) still recognize the cap relief. Just so Browns.

First... 👏 I think you hit the nail on the head, 'Peen.


Quick AI query answers most of these questions.

Perplexity AI:


Has there ever been evidence of a company not paying out on an nfl contract?

Pro Search

Yes, there have been instances of insurance companies disputing or refusing to pay out on NFL contracts or disability policies, although they are typically rare and highly specific to the circumstances. Most disagreements revolve around interpretation of the policy, the evidence provided, or disputes about whether the player's condition or injury qualified for a payout. Below are some notable examples:

1. Post-Career Disability Disputes
Retired NFL players have occasionally faced issues with insurance companies declining to honor disability claims related to injuries sustained during their playing careers. Former players like Mike Webster (a Pittsburgh Steelers Hall of Famer) have famously struggled to receive payouts, especially related to long-term injuries or conditions like chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE).

2. Willis McGahee (2003 NFL Draft and Lloyd's of London Dispute)
Willis McGahee, a star running back at the University of Miami, suffered a devastating knee injury during the 2003 National Championship game, which significantly hurt his NFL draft stock. He had taken out a $2.5 million insurance policy with Lloyd’s of London to protect his financial future in case of injury.

However, Lloyd’s of London reportedly declined to pay the claim, citing conditions within the policy and disputing whether McGahee’s injury met the criteria for a payout. The matter brought attention to the challenges athletes face in receiving insurance benefits for career-impacting injuries.

3. J.J. Watt’s Insurance Policy on Contract During Holdout
In 2015, NFL star J.J. Watt reportedly took out an insurance policy during a contractual dispute with the Houston Texans. While there wasn’t a direct refusal from the insurance company, concerns were raised about whether such policies would even cover Watt under different scenarios like holdouts or non-injury-related matters, demonstrating the potential murky waters in NFL policies.

General Trends in NFL Insurance Disputes
NFL contracts and insurance policies are often negotiated under stringent terms, and as a result, disputes may arise over technicalities such as:

Pre-existing conditions: If an injury or condition existed prior to the issuance of the insurance policy, insurers can deny claims.

Policy exclusions: Certain injuries or situations may be excluded from coverage.

"Act of God" clauses: Rare events may lead companies to invoke specific clauses to avoid payout.

In most cases, these disputes are resolved privately or via litigation, meaning public details are limited. However, they highlight challenges NFL players and organizations face in ensuring financial security through insurance.

==============================


Then I asked for other companies besides Lloyds that offer these contracts and their approximate assets... doesn't look like there would be much issue with a payout.

Here’s an overview of the approximate total assets of the companies mentioned, based on publicly available information from recent financial reports or disclosures. Note that these figures are approximate and can fluctuate based on market conditions, company performance, and reporting year.

1. AIG (American International Group)
Approximate Total Assets (2023): $529 billion
AIG is one of the largest insurance providers globally, offering a wide range of insurance and financial services.

2. Berkshire Hathaway Specialty Insurance
Approximate Total Assets (2023): $997 billion (Berkshire Hathaway as a whole)
Berkshire Hathaway's specialty insurance division is part of Warren Buffett’s conglomerate, which includes substantial reinsurance and specialty insurance operations.

3. Munich Re
Approximate Total Assets (2023): €313 billion (approximately $345 billion USD)
Munich Re is one of the world’s leading reinsurance companies, known for its expertise in high-risk and specialty insurance.

4. Swiss Re
Approximate Total Assets (2023): $253 billion
Swiss Re is another global leader in reinsurance and specializes in large, complex insurance products, including sports and entertainment insurance.

5. Pro Financial Services (PFS)
Approximate Total Assets: Not publicly disclosed
PFS is a boutique insurance provider specializing in athlete insurance. As a private company, its financials are not publicly available, but it is considerably smaller than the other listed insurers.

6. The Hanover Insurance Group
Approximate Total Assets (2023): $19.5 billion
Hanover is a mid-sized insurance company providing specialty, commercial, and personal lines insurance.

7. Tokio Marine HCC
Approximate Total Assets (2023): ¥28.5 trillion (approximately $214 billion USD for Tokio Marine Holdings)
Tokio Marine HCC is a subsidiary of Tokio Marine Group, which is one of Japan’s largest insurance companies with a significant global presence.

8. Axis Capital
Approximate Total Assets (2023): $31 billion
Axis Capital specializes in insurance and reinsurance markets, with a focus on niche and specialty insurance products.

9. Everest Re
Approximate Total Assets (2023): $40 billion
Everest Re is a significant player in the reinsurance and specialty insurance industry, providing coverage for athletes, businesses, and more.

10. Allianz Global Corporate & Specialty
Approximate Total Assets (2023): €1.04 trillion (approximately $1.15 trillion USD for Allianz Group)
Allianz Global Corporate & Specialty is the corporate and specialty arm of Allianz Group, one of the largest insurance companies in the world.

BTW... AI said the company insuring this contract was undisclosed.

Warren Buffett bought Pilot, and their dispute over valuation was after the Watson contract... my guess is this is insured by Hathaway.

My prediction: Haslam takes a slightly lesser amount to expedite the process.

The insurance company should pay what they're supposed to. Case closed!!!

That's not the way this game is played. I don't disagree with you but that's not how it works.

Yep. That's seldom how it works. What should be a cut 'n dried financial instrument usually becomes a negotiation process. That can be as simple as a nod and a wink for more business or as complicated as years of litigation.

There's a decent chance that Jimmy and Warren made nice after their past disputes and this is processed quickly and easily.

I think the odds of it happening quickly are pretty good.

That would make Flacco the consolation prize, no? I think that makes the original hypothetical a legit option. You have Flacco so you no longer need to give up draft capital... so if you can make the $$ work, why not sign Cousins (if he was your higher option all along)?

Just want to comment that this is some A+ level sleuthing right here.

That would depend on your main motivation for signing a veteran in the first place. If your intention is to draft a QB at say #2 or even trade back up into the first round to draft a QB you would need a mentor for him. These QB's are not quite ready for prime time yet.

I guess it's possible to sign both Flacco and Cousins but it certainly doesn't seem likely. That would mean with Flacco, Pickett and then signing Cousins it would give you three veterans. And while Pickett has less starts than the other two, he has had 24 starts. At that juncture it seems like a lot of overkill. Yes, I know the Browns churn through QB's like the Amish churn butter but still.

I think the elephant in the room that we're all ignoring is the dynamics in a the quarterback room. Comradery vs competition only goes so far when you have two grizzled vets. If you would have told Flacco you intend to pursue Cousins he would have smiled and wished you a successful season before he asked how to validate parking. If you tell him now, it borders disingenuous and blasphemous.

He clearly walked last year because he wanted to start games. He also possesses every bit of Alpha required to have the resume of a successful, long tenured NFL QB. In other words, he already thinks he is the best in almost every QB room and probably wouldn't choose to enter one that he isn't.

Cousins would have cost us draft capital plus money even if he wanted to come to Cleveland. Has a no-trade clause. I’m not sure he was ever a serious option for us.

Maybe a possibility, but a small one I would imagine. Regulatory agencies control what companies can write such a policy, and this isn't even all that big a policy. If a company can write a policy on container ships as an example, a policy such as this isn't nearly as big. This might carry more risk than a ship sinking at sea but the potential loss is far less.

I don't know who writes loss of value policies on players, but it isn't the State Farm agent down on the corner. Lloyds of London is well known for writing all sorts of loss policies. There are others but I couldn't begin to say who they might be.

However, if the Insurance company claimed belly up, I am sure the NFL would give the cap relief. As I said, whoever the Browns are using for this is also insuring multiple other NFL teams in various ways. Just like Marriott is the official hotel of the NFL, which we hear about, there is probably a preferred insurance company the owners and league use in matters like this. We just don't hear about it because it is internal business.

Thanks, you answered some of the questions I posed. Sometimes it pays to read ahead before posting a comment.
I just take things in order as I read through the board.

For those who don't know the handle, it's JOK.

Hopefully, this is good news.