DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski sign contract extensions with the Browns

I liked Baker and I still do but ummm Steve He DIDN'T lead the Browns to a Super Bowl, or the Panthers, or Rams, or Buc's.

I will give you that point, but there's never been a Browns QB to lead their team to a Super Bowl. In fact, of the 12 players listed as "HITS" the last 12 years, only 4 (Burrow, Goff, Mahomes, and Newton) have led their team to a Super Bowl with only 1 winning. That would mean the other 8 (Tua, Allen, Lawrence, Herbert, Love, Jackson, Luck, and Mayfield) have not made it to a Super Bowl. That's a 66.67% of those 'HIT" QB's that haven't been to the Super Bowl in the last 14 years.

Just a side note, the 2018 1st round QB's (Mayfield, Allen, Rosen, and Jackson) - none have made it to a Super Bowl. If Allen and Jackson can't make it to a Super Bowl with the teams they are with, why would anyone in their right mind think that Allen or Jackson could have gotten the Browns there? Those two guys also didn't get drafted by a team that just finished the last two seasons 1-31 that was a total wreck.

I agree with you on Stefanski and the Baker deal. I am not ready to place blame on any one person for Watson. As I said earlier, there were several teams seeking to sign Watson. It's not like the Browns were to only team out there seeking to get him signed. Watson was maybe a top 3 QB in the league based on his previous play.

Some may not have wanted to sign the guy, but it wasn't because they thought he couldn't play. It stemmed from the off field deal.

It's like saying that had the Bills or Ravens drafted Baker instead, they would have been to a SB by now. There is only one logical explanation for the Baker hate...and it existed before he was even drafted.

CotY being some "consolation prize" makes no sense... but whatever. Ignore that for a moment. Your argument that a QB was only good when he was disconnected from coaching makes zero sense.

As for your discipline point. It's certainly not KS's strong points, but you are completely ignoring that half of the responsibility falls on the player. With Kelce, you're ignoring the fact that Reid pretty much ignored Kelce's lack of discipline and let him get his head screwed on straight. A blowup in-game isn't the same thing as a drawn-out social media temper tantrum. The former can easily be chalked up to passion in an important game, while the latter can only be attributed to a lack of maturity... especially when that explanation fits so well within the larger sample size.

You're also comparing a future HoF coach with a stable team at their peak to a rookie HC.

Would it have been better if KS had the coaching/leadership chops to take Baker by the ear and set him straight? Sure... but I'd argue that no coach has the stones to do that to the #1 draft pick starting QB as a rookie HC that's just the last name in a run of historic turnover at that job. Unless we're able to land a Reid or a Cowher, Tomlin, or a Shanny I think your expectations will leave you disappointed the vast majority of the time.

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt about Stefanski's inability or lack of chops to set Baker straight. Then, what is his excuse for Watson? Do you believe that Stefanski even tried to address the Watson issue? Even if you want to lay 50% on the player, when is Stefanski going to step up to the plate to do his part? I mean, you have read the reports, it isn't only these two that Stefanski has had issues with.

Three questions:

In hindsight, Stefanski and the FO screwed the pooch when they moved on from Mayfield. In the 3-years that Mayfield has been gone, Mayfield has turned into a top 5 QB and the Browns are still looking for a QB that can perform in the top 50% consistently. Even with a drafted QB this year, do you believe the Browns have any chance at all of fielding a top 5 QB within the next 2 years?

Have the Browns mission and vision of must have a top 5 QB to make it to the Super Bowl now changed? Why? Are we not in year 4 of the quest?

Conceding the players portion of the blame, what do the Browns do if their new shiny object comes to Berea with Johnny Manziel syndrome or Baker immaturity? How long will it take before Stefanski throws in the towel again?

What is "the goal" you think they had? What they determined is that Baker could not lead the Browns to a SB. They already knew they could make it to the playoffs with a healthy Mayfield but wanted more. Thus far Mayfield has not done better than leading a team to the playoffs and that is in a much weaker division. As it turns out and as much as it pains you, they were right. Baker has never went beyond the first round in the playoffs. The same thing he did hear.

The mistake was signing watson believing he could lead them to a SB. What you consider "hits" is subjective and appear to be more based on you making your point than reality.

And yes, the fact the rest of the league had already determined some on your list were no more than capable backups before the Browns signed them TO BE backups is most certainly relative.

And some thought the "off field deal" would directly, negatively impact his play. They also felt the fact that when the Browns first approached him with a contract offer, not only did he refuse to negotiate a deal but he used his no trade clause to refuse to even have the browns on the list of teams he was willing to be traded to. There were people that thought that if a player didn't want to be here to begin with things may take a turn for the worse. Then they backed the Brinks truck up for him. As they say, "They made him an offer he couldn't refuse." That didn't mean he changed his mind about not wanting to be here.

I have absolutely no explanation for Watson. I know that's not the answer you were looking for, but I made this comment a page or two ago which is what brought me back into this thread.


As for your three questions... I kinda have the same answer for all of them. My guess is that AB/KS are on their last life (it's the same one since they're joined at the hip). I buy the theory that Watson was pushed by Haslam, and that's the sole reason why they haven't been fired already. The Watson thing (regardless of who's to blame) is something that's so big that someone has to be fired, fair or not. So, to me, the fact that nobody was fired is because you can't fire the owner.

I don't count Ken Dorsey because he was brought here to make a Watson-O and we're not gonna do that anymore.


I don't 100% agree with you on the premise of your top5 QB question. The quest is to put together the best roster possible and win as many games as possible. IIRC, the "top5 QB" talk came from Watson becoming available, and how rare it is to have a top5 QB you can go get. IMO, the true KS offense requires a role-player at QB... a guy that can process what a D is doing and deliver the ball on-target and on-time.

Mayfield and the Bucs beat a struggling Eagles in the first round the year before last. Your other points are correct imo

Thanks for the correction.

Actually, Baker has been to the second round of the playoffs 2 out of the 3 times he's been there. Nice article that looks at Baker in a different light. A FYI, Mayfield is 2-3 in playoff games with a 105.9 QB Rating with 12 TD's and 3 INT's. 3 of those games he was rated over 115.0.

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/bruce-arians-instrumental-bringing-baker-170737539.html

My hope is the Browns can find someone in this draft that can eventually deliver nearly as well as Mayfield has performed.

Neither have they
They went from chasing Blanton Collier record with mayfield to last place without him
By the way when was the last time the AFC north won the Super Bowl?

From the article:

"That locker room loved that kid. I mean, loved him. And the way he competed in a Friday practice, I was like, ‘This is my kind of guy.'"

Arians saw from a distance what AB/KS couldn't see right in front of them.

What Areans didn't see was the Baker Mayfield that was in Cleveland before the obstacles in his life forced him to grow up. Pretending the process that he went through and the rejection he got from other teams after he left didn't cause him to grow into the Baker we see today is a blindness many people suffer from.

Obviously, you didn't read the article because Arians was talking about his two visits to Cleveland and the Cleveland locker room. It was a little inside observance from an outsider not blinded by hate. Just an FYI.

Hate? I like Baker. You must have forgotten how I was labeled a "Baker Boy" by Vers. So your revisionist history is ridiculous. I'm happy that he is doing so well and he has found success in Tampa Bay.

I'm sorry that you are so blinded that you can't see that not only did the Browns let him walk, but then the Panthers who were starving for a QB let him go and then LA didn't even see him as a serviceable backup QB and let him go.

Baker needed to mature and what he went through helped him accomplish that. I'm sad that it took all of those steps in his career to make it happen but in the end it did. It's not my fault that you gloss over all of that. It's not my fault that you leave that part out of your fairy tale. But anyone objective enough to look at the journey he had to go through to get to where he is now are the only people fooling themselves.

Pit, I like you dude, but you create stuff just to cause conflict. There is nothing in my post that says you hate Baker. It says Arians wasn't blinded by Mayfield hate. Mayfield hate is all over this forum and with members of the press, but my post was in general and not specific. I also have never said Mayfield didn't have issues that needed to be addressed on the field and off. What I did say and will continue to say is Mayfield was the best QB the Browns have had in 25 years and Berry and Stefanski gave up on him for a shiny product that didn't deliver, and the team has suffered greatly for that total lack of leadership and continues to suffer because they still don't have a franchise QB. JMHO, Stefanski and Berry do not have the chops to develop a QB and the proof is in the pudding because they haven't shown me that in 5-years.

As steve pointed out, you either didn't actually READ the article or you didn't catch that Arian's observation came during Baker's time in Cleveland. Your attempt to backtrack is funny.

Carolina was tanking for the 1st pick and fired their HC early in the season. Baker wasn't going to re-sign as a free agent into a Browns-like trainwwreck in CAR...anyone with any common sense knew he wasn't signing there after the season. It made sense for CAR to continue to tank and not have Baker screw up and win a handful of meaningless games. In addition, CAR showed their AB-like QB evaluation skills by later passing on Shroud and instead taking Bryce Young.

You keep saying that the LAR didn't even want to keep Baker as a backup. It was ridiculous the first time you said it...now it is just plain deceitful. The LAR had Stafford and were paying him a boatload of money. Baker was then a free agent looking for a place to start. He wasn't going to sign to be a known backup ANYWHERE- even though the flag-planting-haters crowed at his always-pending demise at every chance.

Baker needed to grow up...he admitted such. He didn't HAVE to leave CLE to do so...the AB/KS duo tossed him aside...they didn't believe they could make it work with Baker. They then pulled off their pants for Watson.

This repeated BS about CAR and LAR not 'wanting' Baker is just that...complete and utter BS.

Arians - a super bowl winning coach who just finished coaching the GOAT Tom Brady - knew what he saw when he saw Baker...in the locker-room and practice field no less. The same locker-room and practice field where AB/KS saw a QB they couldn't win with.

From Arians:

Arians said he believed Mayfield was the kind of guy who could handle the challenge of taking over for Tom Brady — and he has delivered.

“He’s won that team over,” Arians said. He’s won the city over. He owns the city right now, and rightfully so. He’s played his ass off.”

https://www.joebucsfan.com/2025/04/bruce-arians-calls-baker-mayfield-one-of-my-last-decisions/

Must not be many Buckeye fans in Tampa.

Sure Steve.

Carolina and L.A. gave up on him too until he turned things around. You continue to exclude that part.

You're trying to rewrite history.

Carolina released Mayfield. Not the other way around. Would you like to see his stats at Carolina to see why? Well I'm going to show them to you anyway.....

57.8% completion rate. 6td's and 6 int's. QBR of 74.4.

He went 1-5 as the Panthers starter.

He wasn't going to re-sign in Carolina? Yeah, that would be hard to do since they already cut him DURING the season.

Tampa Bay didn't even make Baker the starter until the last 5 games of the season.

It appears he did need to leave Cleveland in order to grow up.

Baker was a FA in LA, and wanted to start. (which he wound up doing in TB)

Yes it was after stints with three teams before that. Every QB in the NFL wants to be a starter. He managed to find one of the only opportunities he had to do so and made it pay off.

https://www.si.com/nfl/rams/news/los-angeles-rams-sean-mcvay-baker-mayfield-reputation

Come on Pit, you know as well as I do the LAR situation was due to Stafford being injured and staying as a backup was not anything Baker was looking for. Besides, McVay raved about Baker and knew he wouldn't be staying in LA behind Stafford as a backup. To say the Rams gave up on Mayfield is a false pretense. Plus, add that into the fact that Arians said the Bucs would have traded for Baker if Brady had retired after the Super Bowl combined with McVay's thoughts only solidifies that Berry and Stefanski screwed up. Players don't go to teams to be backups if they believe they are starting material.

FFS Pit! Bucs announce Baker as their starter. NFL.com August 2023
At least Google a little bit before hitting the tangents.

Continuing playing an injured Baker in 2021 was Stefanski’s first major mistake.

He’s the HC and has the ultimate power who’s to start or not. If he is dumb enough to let his first rd pick play despite such a serious injury then it’s Berry’s responsibility to step in and stop this madness. Of course not. The smartest guy in the room used his brain cells and the result………

You've sold yourself a story that most people who witnessed all of these events unfold know better than to believe. So whatever you need to tell yourself to make you feel better is fine with me. But they didn't trade for baker did they?

Can you name any other team Baker could have went to and had a legitimate shot to be the starter? He made the most of it after he went through the growing pains he needed in order to mature. He had no chance before that. If you think he did then why would he have ever taken the backup QB position with the Rams? Come on man. If he had the chance to get on a team to start he wouldn't have signed as the backup for the Rams.

Where the heck are you getting your info from Pit? Mayfield has started every game since he's been in Tampa - 34 straight regular season games and two playoff appearances. The Panthers also let go Darnold and PJ Walker after the season, one of which the Browns went and got in Walker and the other that had forum posters here drooling over that that Browns should have signed in free agency this year. The Panthers traded a conditional 2024 fifth-rounder to the Browns. That pick could have become a fourth-rounder in 2024 if he'd have played 70 percent of the snaps, the Panthers made sure he did not. A high ankle sprain against the 49ers by Mayfield gave the Panthers the opportunity to start the other QB's which they did. The Panthers were a train wreck, had fired their HC early season, and knew Baker wouldn't resign with them. If you want to trash the guy, at least be sure to include the other intangibles. I have always agreed with the fact Mayfield needed to grow up and have an attitude adjustment, but it doesn't change the fact that McVay, Arians, and the Bucs felt they could fix that like good HC's and organizations with good leadership do - unlike the Browns.

Again, where do you get your info. Baker was signed by the LAR to be the starter. Some of why the Rams claimed Baker Mayfield: They believe in his talent. They need a QB with Matthew Stafford sidelined for the season and John Wolford dealing with a neck injury. And if Mayfield signs elsewhere this off-season, the Rams could get back a compensatory draft pick.

According to the LA Times: "Mayfield asked for his release from the Panthers because he wasn’t going to suit up this week. Knowing that he gave up $3 million to come to Carolina, the Panthers agreed to cut him loose.

Word out of that Carolina franchise is that Mayfield isn’t the big-ego player a lot of people think he is, but instead a good teammate who is supportive even in a backup role. Those close to him in Carolina say he either matured from his Cleveland days, or that bad reputation was grossly exaggerated."

When you add in what Arians observed when Baker was in Cleveland, it looks more and more like a Stefanski and Berry issue than a Mayfield issue.

So you consider a temporary backup filling end until your starter becomes healthy is him being the starter? In most circles that's known more as a temporary fill in to hold down the fort. In three of his five games, yes a whole five games, Mayfield only completed more than 60% of his passes in 2 of those games.

What you have shown without even realizing it is that Mayfield had no chance to earn the starting role on any team with a legitimate starter. With Stafford down do you know who he competed with to earn that starting spot with the Rams? John Wolford. Who?

Who did he have to beat out in Tampa Bay? Kyle Trask and Michael Pratt? Once again, who? Trask has played in a total of 7 NFL games with 4 completions on 11 attempts for a 34.7 completion rate.

Let me ask you, are you trying to compare the 2025 Darnold with the 2022 Darnold? Is that the merch you're trying to peddle?

Mayfield found an opportunity where the QB room was so bad any mediocre journeyman would win the starting job. That was Tampa Bay. He has made the most of that opportunity and is playing well. But don't try to rewrite the hostory of how that all happened.

Mayfield has found a nice niche for himself in the NFC South. He would never have won or been as successful in the AFC North. Heck the Browns with only 3 wins played better vs the Ravens last year than Mayfield and the Buccs. He was a terrible pick in 2018 and that terrible selection led to this FO to over correct and try to fix the position and led the team to Watson. In 2022 when the trade happened Watson had far superior career on the field but off the field his issues were far worse than Mayfield immaturity though. In 2018 the Browns could have drafted Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson but instead they drafted Mayfield or Johnny Manziel 2. His ceiling is 2nd round in the playoffs. He will never play in an NFC or AFC Championship game or Super Bowl. He is just not good enough. In his 4 seasons with the Browns the teams he led never finished better than 3rd place in the division. Add to that his inconsistency and immaturity and why would the Browns have given Mayfield a 2nd contract. The Buccs are not paying him top dollar, and I do not see them ever giving him a huge franchise QB contract. He is what he is and that is the next Kirk Cousins. He will have a 15 year career and never win anything really except his division when the other teams are down like the NFC South is now.

What was the Browns loss turned into the Buccaneers gain for Mayfield. Maybe the Browns were not the right fit for him. Glad he is on a team and happy.

Interesting take, I respect your opinion. Let me ask you a question though, you state "In his 4 seasons with the Browns the teams he led never finished better than 3rd place in the division." Though this is factual, name me a Browns QB since 1999 that has won the AFC North or any division title? When you state that his ceiling is 2nd round of the playoffs, name me a Browns QB now or in the past 25 years that has/had a higher ceiling? I won't dispute that Jackson and Allen in hindsight may be better QB's than Mayfield but how many Super Bowls have those guys been too? You see, my issue is the Browns have never had that Super Bowl caliber (as you rate them) player but as soon as they did get a player that got them to the playoffs for the first time in two decades, they dump him. If in Berry and Stefanski's mind that their only chance of making it to a Super Bowl is to find a Mahomes then they'll be fired many times over waiting for that shiny object. In fact, coaching plays a significant part in that quest and Stefanski couldn't carry Reid's, Harbough's, McVay's, Tomlin's or Shanahan's jock strap as far as coaching ability. Maybe we should immediately fire the coach that doesn't have the ceiling to get us to a "Super Bowl."

Finally, no better than a Kirk Cousins is laughable since if it wasn't for the hugh contract and being bogged down with Watson's terrible deal - the Browns, Berry, and Stefanski would have already traded for him.

Interesting take, I respect your opinion. Let me ask you a question though, you state "In his 4 seasons with the Browns the teams he led never finished better than 3rd place in the division." Though this is factual, name me a Browns QB since 1999 that has won the AFC North or any division title? When you state that his ceiling is 2nd round of the playoffs, name me a Browns QB now or in the past 25 years that has/had a higher ceiling? I won't dispute that Jackson and Allen in hindsight may be better QB's than Mayfield but how many Super Bowls have those guys been too? You see, my issue is the Browns have never had that Super Bowl caliber (as you rate them) player but as soon as they did get a player that got them to the playoffs for the first time in two decades, they dump him. If in Berry and Stefanski's mind that their only chance of making it to a Super Bowl is to find a Mahomes then they'll be fired many times over waiting for that shiny object. In fact, coaching plays a significant part in that quest and Stefanski couldn't carry Reid's, Harbough's, McVay's, Tomlin's or Shanahan's jock strap as far as coaching ability. Maybe we should immediately fire the coach that doesn't have the ceiling to get us to a "Super Bowl."

Finally, no better than a Kirk Cousins is laughable since if it wasn't for the hugh contract and being bogged down with Watson's terrible deal - the Browns, Berry, and Stefanski would have already traded for him.

No matter how you paint the picture the bottom line is that Berry and Stefanski failed big time with both Mayfield and Watson.
If you can’t give Baker any credit for overcoming a roller coaster of adversity, setbacks and injuries then I will not excuse our GM and HC for anything.
Fairness goes two ways.

Results in the last 30/10/5 and 1 seasons says that the Browns are a bottom tier organization. Mismanaged from top to bottom.
Andrew Berry hasn’t significantly changed that route. Stefanski’s record started good but is lately on a slippery slope downhill.

What does it tells you?
Future success? Future

You are the only person making THAT argument...once again. ANY free agent QB who thinks he's starter-quality wants to go somewhere where he will have a chance to...you know...START.

He went to the Rams as a stop gap and to start...and he started. Anyone with any sense knew that was just for the back part of that season.

BTW, do you remember what he accomplished in his first game there? After two days with the team?

We will always have this:

Actually, the route Mayfield was trying to get too involved the 49ers. That Sunday, the 49ers lost Jimmy G to injury and was left with no one but 7th Rd pick and Mr. Irrelevant Brock Purdy healthy in the 49ers QB room. Contrary to what some may say on here, Mayfield asked the Panthers to release him which they eventually did. Mayfield believed he would have been a good fit for the 49ers and was eager to work with a good coach in Shanahan. Unfortunately, the LA Rams were higher on the waiver list so they picked up Mayfield due to their own QB injuries. On the plus side, Mayfield went to a team that wanted him and had an equally good HC in McVay.

Here's another point, with 5-6 games left in the season, why wouldn't Baker want an opportunity to start those games somewhere to enhance his resume being he was going to be a free agent at seasons end than not being used in Carolina wreck? You're quick to assume that Mayfield was a failure in Carolina when it looks like Mayfield assessed the situation and determined it was in his best interest to take another path. To be sure, Arians, the Bucs, McVay, and the Panthers seen nothing like what Mayfield is accused of in Cleveland with their interactions with him. Maybe there was a certain level of immaturity but again, a good HC and FO would have worked through those issues. Now Mayfield is performing at a top 5 level, and the Browns are no closer to a top 5 QB than they were when Mayfield left. If that isn't a direct knock on Stefanski and Berry, then I don't know what is. Form my vantage point, the Browns sure could have used those 69 TD passes thrown the last 2 years by Mayfield (a player incapable of getting to a Super Bowl).

Mayfield destroyed the locker room in Cleveland in 2021. He destroyed the team that went to the playoffs in 2020. That is why he is no longer here. He is an immature brat. He is average at best QB that found success in a weak division.

Berry and Stefanski failed watson? You have a future career in stand up. Go seek your fortune.

Of course they do. If they didn't they shouldn't be playing in the NFL. And Mayfield fell into an opportunity where he beat out the incomparable and talented Kyle Trask and Michael Pratt to get that opportunity.

Yes I know what he did in his first start with the Rams. I also know that in three out of his five starts with the Rams he threw for less than a 60% completion rate. I get it. Using a single game out of five is convenient if you try to block out the body of work.