DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski sign contract extensions with the Browns

Now you are shifting. You never said his play was going to suffer because of the off field stuff, you were too busy saying you were dumping the Browns and were never going to root for them again.

I say that knowing you weren't going to dump the Browns. I know you are a real fan. It was a comment out of frustration, but come on man, you never said he wasn't going to play well again.

Let's just let that one go, move on and forget it.

I'll try and help you refresh your memory. I said that the word fan was and is short for "fanatic". And that my level of support no longer reached that level. So if you believe the word fan is short for "fanatic" which most people understand that it is, I don't qualify. I certainly NEVER said I wouldn't support the Browns.

You can take that any way you want to but you really need to stop making up things up that were never said.

There were plenty of red flags at the time that there was reason to believe his play would suffer by the fact he didn't want to be here in the first place and all of the personal issues in his life. Some are strong enough to battle through 26 women accusing them of sexual assault. IMO it's much easier to do when you're innocent. He was not. Those questions loomed large the entire time.

Then there's the fact he didn't even play for the Texans his entire last season there. I'm sorry none of that set of your radar. It did mine. Did I predict he would be as bad as he is now? No I did not. Did I give these reasons as cause to be concerned that may be the result? Yes I did.

Dude, I know you are a fan of the team. Don't have another conniption.

Peace.

jc

say what y'all want, this is the most stable and consistent HC/FO we've had since 99. I'm actually glad we've reached a point where both are signing extensions, as that helps with the perception of this team from future free agents.

I agree my friend.

We may not be winning the way we want, but I suspect there are Philly fans who have some sort of beef with their FO.

If you think the word fan means fanatic you would be wrong. But it makes the losses a lot easier. It makes rolling with the punches much easier. Having less emotional attachment to this team is quite liberating actually.

Peace.

Results tells that you that under Berry and Stefanski’s leadership the Browns is a stable and consistent just below middle tier NFL organization.

40W - 44L Ranked 19 in the NFL between 2020 to 2024

Add bad decision making, years with conflicts, chaos and uncertainty and I don’t see how you all can find that acceptable?
My ambitions are much higher than being satisfied to be in average of the bottom half of the table the last five seasons.

And where was this team before 2020? Gotta walk before you crawl. This FO was stuck with an inferior QB and tried to right that wrong. They swung and missed. They have to get it right in next years draft for a franchise QB. The Browns have not had a franchise QB since Bernie.

The chaos and mismanagement hasn’t stopped.

2018 was a step forward but then Dorsey made the wrong decision and hired Kitchens then 2019 was a lost season.

In 2020 we again took a huge step forward and improved on almost every front. We had a FQB inside Berea but instead of building of that seasons success Berry and Dtefanski hesitated and in 2021 when Baker got injured the Browns leadership panicked and then the chaos started again.

The big swing you talk about was the worst decision ever taken by an NFL organization and in a heartbeat the 2022 season was lost.

Miraculously the chips falled in the right places in 2023 and with a great DC and the arrival of Flacco that season was a success until the playoff game took us back to reality.
You would think that Berry had learned from his past mistakes but don’t worry, he still couldn’t walk the walk, only Stefanski talked and suddenly the 2024 season was a fiasco.

Don’t you see a pattern?
Two three good decisions then some horrendous one that takes the organization back to square one.

In this weekends draft the drama continued.
Once again the Browns couldn’t help themselves and I don’t think the whole organization was onboard on taking Sanders in the fifth round.

As it stands the Browns have five quarterbacks on the payroll, with or without the insurance money.
Good or bad the future will tell.

I don’t see plan from the FO moving forward. I see decisions taken on the fly. I see good moves and I see moves that’s hard to understand.
That’s not a a stable and competent leadership.

I understand that after 20-30 seasons of mismanagement you’re satisfied with some progress but the results shows that we have actually regressed since 2020.

Im not sure how you got all that, when all i did was point out the consistency and stability we have NOW that we never had THEN.

Didn't say it couldnt be improved. didn't say they are perfect.

But can you name me a time since 99 when we had 2 playoff appearances, as well as our HC get named COtY twice within 5 seasons? cause i cant. just because it hasn't been great doesn't mean we can't highlight the progress.

FTW

One important factor you forget when you say we have progressed is all the years before 2020 when the organization tanked to get high draft picks.
Our roster was loaded with talent when Berry and Stefanski arrived.
Almost all the necessary pieces were in the building and the only thing that the FO had to do was to bult on that foundation.

I don’t understand how you can say that after 2020 we got stability?
2021, 2022 and 2024 has been filled with chaos, drama, inconsistent results and bad decision making.

Can you right now in 2025 see an understandable and long term plan for the organization to move forward? I don’t.
Our roster is still filled with holes. Our best players the last five season’s are on the backside of theirs career.
I don’t see leaders and I definitely don’t see a healthy working environment in this organization.

The Browns are since 2020 the opposite of stability.
Baker, OBJ, Watson, Hunt, Cooper just to name a few clashes.
The month before the draft was a roller coaster of drama between Berry and Garrett before it ended with another monster contract.

Years filled with open conflicts where the only common factor is that our GM is always involved and the middle of it.
Is that stability in your view?

Results wise we’re inconsistent and one of the worst teams in the NFL between 2021 -2024.

It stems from fanatic but has grown to encompass everything from casual fan to the fanatic, so I agree one doesn't have to be crazy nuts over the team

Listen bro. One more time. You know nothing about stability. By your own admission, you "picked" the Browns as your team because we had a boat-load of picks, "no way to go but up" and drafted Baker Mayfield. You've been a fan for about ten minutes compared to many here.

We've seen a team that changes coaches and GMs more often than marathon runners poop their pants (just recently learned this, yuck, another reason to hate running). We've walked years in the desert, you got dropped at an oasis with a bag of chips and a big fat sub sandwich.

You have no idea what chaos and drama is. We've seen bottlegate, batterygate, moneyphonegate, and watched a 1-31 coach jump in the lake. We've had games robbed, stolen and given away. We've seen players robbed, stolen and given away. We were beat for five years straight by a @$%#$ staph infection.

Please don't tell us what we don't know.

With your understanding of the word I would qualify as a fan. According to my understanding of the word I would not. I suppose it all boils down to perspective.

I have reading your post three times now to hopefully get a better understanding what you and other have gone through but as you probably understand I can never fully understand what it means to live through decades of disappointments as a Browns supporters. (a lots of understandings in that sentence … )

Give me some time to digest your post and come back later with a more thoughtful view because the topic deserves some reflection.
Thanks for taking the time to give me some additional background and context.

Mayfield lost a QB comp to Sam Darnold... and that Sam Darnold was NOT playing like he did this past year.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, that is absolutely "a failure in Carolina".

I'm not really disagreeing with you, but that says more about the regimes that came before this one than anything.

There are like 3 different sig-worthy quotes in this post, alone.

Some facts from the the Charlotte Observer
(You and Pit need to Google before going bananas behind your PC )

Rhule thought Mayfield looked better in camp than Darnold. So after going 10-23 in his first two seasons and badly needing to win to keep his job, Rhule decided to start a quarterback (Baker Mayfield) in Week 1 that had only joined the team two months before.

Mayfield asked for his release in December 2022. It was granted. Mayfield was quickly picked up by the quarterback-needy L.A. Rams, and only two days later led the Rams to a comeback win that made national headlines.


Read more at: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article297929703.html#storylink=cpy

I'm as big a Baker fan as there is. I will always root for him. But at some point we gotta just move on.

Any reference to what happened in CLT that year is meaningless. CLT was a absolute crap show - that year, they made the Browns look like a well run, organized and credible football operation. Matt Rhule as a HC and his offense was beyond dire. Mayfield was replaced - the team looked as bad or worse once he was replaced .... but that is also means nothing. jmo. * And that is spoken as someone living there at the time and listening and seeing all the sport talk and buzz each week

You're right, he won the QB comp and THEN got benched for the same Darnold. My bad (that last part is sarcasm).

https://sports.yahoo.com/panthers-b...GS_zc-rBy-qMUxEG41af5I_p4jrg-oKE8Enx7kni

Like true internet warriors we can probably go on forever but I think nobody cares about our little dispute.

Better to look forward to some quarterback drama inside Berea.
The only think we know is that it will probably come around next snowfall and it will all be a part of the the new November episode with the Andrew Berry’s Kling and Klang Show

Objectivity does not reside within you. In Carolina Baker threw for a 57.8% completion rate while throwing 6td's and 6int's. Then he was promptly benched. That equals success to you?

Lol, that's fair.

If all you have is backups, is it really a QB controversy?

And before that......Jim Brown retiring, Red Right 88, the drive, the fumble......

Exactly. I was just going STR and post Encyclopedia Britannica. 🤣

BTW, Floquinho...

"STR" means Since The Return. It's one of the red lines on our graph of futility.

Sheesh, this debate has gone on too long... I can remedy it for both of you.

If you have more clothes in your closet for one team than any other, you are a fan. Even if that means you have one t-shirt or hat and don't have anything for any other team.
If you run out to buy the official draft hat, get a rookie jersey at least once every 3 years. Have more team t-shirts than work shirts, own a pair of pants, socks or shoes of a team... Have a dedicated room, etc. you are a fanatic.

fan

fanaticism

Fanaticism is the condition of being overly enthusiastic or eager about a cause to the point of being extreme and unreasonable about it.

fanatic

marked by excessive enthusiasm for and intense devotion to a cause or idea

https://membean.com/roots/fan-temple

What is the root definition of fan?

1520s, "insane person," from Latin fanaticus "mad, enthusiastic, inspired by a god," also "furious, mad," originally, "pertaining to a temple," from fanum "temple, shrine, consecrated place," related to festus "festive" (see feast (n.)). Meaning "zealous person, person affected by enthusiasm" is from 1640s.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/fan

I understand what people "think and feel" it means. But that doesn't account for what the word actually means.

I don't know who the heck membean is or etymonline, but this what the tried and true American Heritage College Dictionary says:

A fan, according to the American Heritage College Dictionary, is "an ardent devotee, an enthusiast." Fanatic is defined as "a person marked by an extreme unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause." The distinction, then, apparently rests on whether the enthusiasm is ardent or unreasoning. Thus my points above a very appropriate.

In yours, is uses the word "probably", in the one that is recognized it is shown as actual definitions..

I really didn't want to enter the debate, the post was more in jest, but lighten up man, we are talking about whether you are a fan or fanatic of the Browns. You have over 74,000 posts on a Browns message board, you are definitely a fanatic, or at least was. We would have to dive a littler deeper into how those 74k are distributed over the years. If you are on pace with your average, I would say you are still a fanatic.

I just want our HC to handle both Dillon and Sanders in a fair way.

It looks like the locker room has accepted Shedeur as one of them but I’m highly doubtful about Stefanski’s ability to handle an unapologetic young black man with some of his father’s arrogance and with an abundance of his generations attitude. As a white 6o+ old man I know that the generational differences is sometimes hard to handle, especially if you’re met with attitude and arrogance.

The way Kevin handled Baker and Deshaun shows clearly that he isn’t a father figure or a wise mentor that can create a long term honest relationship with those who have deep insecurities as a part of their personality. If a organisation invest heavily to find their future FQB you expect them to first work on the bad or unnecessary traits before taking the next step, and then develop leadership abilities so these young men can handle all the challenges that comes with it being a future FQB.

Not every young talent is born to be in the spotlight 27/7 and to right away are ready to handle every situation perfectly.

I hope Kevin is wise enough to first create a good and honest relationship before putting pressure on these young men.
Maybe try the opposite approach to what he did to Baker? (key word - honest relationship)

Shedeur has in the few last weeks withes a tsunami of criticism and has been scrutinized by everyone.
I can’t remember a drafted rookie that been handled so rough than this young man.
Just like Deshaun and what he went through it can most definitely creates mental instability and in a worst case scenario fear and anxiety.

Some may say that he has done this to himself but that doesn’t change what he’s going through.

And people complain that many of them are in the political forum not related to football. Which is true. Other than the draft taking place right now most are in the political forum. I'm sure I will also post about football. But I have been a poster since the Browns first returned. First on the main Browns site when it was Dawgtalk and then here when it formed as Dawgtalkers. For many of those years it's true that I was a devoted fan. In fact the main reason I even bought my first computer was due to the Browns returning in 1999.

You are certainly right that at one time I was certainly a "fan"atic. For decades in fact. I attended games, had a huge Browns collection and bought a lot of Browns gear. I have greatly downsized and haven't bought anything like that in years now. I was very much emotionally invested in this team. I drove from north of Dayton to Cleveland to attend games. Now I won't even bother to drive to Nashville to attend a game when the Browns come here to play and it's less than 30 minutes away.

The hours and hours I spent reading everything I could find on the Browns was just crazy. The time I spent and invested studying potential draft picks was also crazy. The money and time I spent on Browns gear and attending games I won't even get into but it was a lot considering my income at the time. I was a member of the Browns Backers.

To me that describes what being a "fan"atic means.

That all went out the window when they signed watson. I lost all respect for Haslam and this FO.

But maybe it was the biggest favor the Browns could have done for me. Before when we lost it was devastating and when we won I was over the top! Not anymore. It helped me realize what is truly important in life and put my priorities in perspective. Some things truly impact our lives and some things don't.... or at least shouldn't.

So while I still root for the Browns to win, while I still support them in spirit, it's not even close to what it was before. And nobody quite understands that difference more than I do.

Merriam-Webster

an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator

That doesn't quite describe me anymore.

The locker room has accepted him?

Just an additional side note to supplement: Part of the root and etymology of "fan" has another meaning as well, not only of fanatic, but also being a "fancier"of sport, activity, etc. Not used as a replacementfor or alternative and differing meaning. But if you fancy something that is different than being fanatical about it. As used in speaking & writing, they went differing ways over time. Think DT's are fans in every sense of the words.

We all have to accept the fact that we are seriously tanking the 2025 season. KB and AB are signed so they do not have to worry about winning, just like the owner.

I understand what you're saying but often HC's and GM's are fired after being signed to a contract. I believe, but am not sure that at one time, with all of the coaching and GM turnovers that Haslam was paying three HC contracts at the same time. I know he was paying at least two a few times. And usually the HC and GM go at the same time. None of the FO salaries are tied to or count against the salary cap. Here's an article about Halam paying more than one HC at the same time......

The Big Owe: Cleveland Browns have paid or are paying six head coaches about $49 million not to work

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2014/01/the_big_owe_cleveland_browns_h.html

Loved this draft and think they handled it very responsibly. AND I think Gabriel plays a lot like Baker. Shedeur got picked right where I had his value after watching limited tape and his social media channel. A humbled Shedeur might even make the team.

Unfortunately I think both Berry and Stefanski are safe even with less than 4-5 wins.
That’s how low the standard are in this organization.

Look forward to our HC after a loss enter the press conference and starting with “everyone has to do better, especially me as a HC. Talk a few minutes of yada yada, answer questions where he look a little bit concerned and worried. Then finalize the whole show with a smile and “see you next week”.

In the middle of the season it’s the GM’s time to share his thoughts.
Another “I take the blame” followed by a couple of minutes of yada yada and then off course finalize it with his patented smile of duty.

We can probably expect some drama inside Berea when thing don’t go as expected, then a few days where the talk shows and the media are focusing on everything except our results and then of course the usual yearly conflicts between some of the players and the leadership.

A season without some unexpected wins would be surprising and when we win against one of our closest rivals then some of the supporters will open the Champagne and proclaim that now are we ready for bigger challenges. ’

That’s the charm with supporting the Browns. Never a dull moment.
(with low expectations the expected disappointment is easier to take)

Please delete 2024 folk and welcome to 2025.

At least you finally admitted that you look forward to the Browns losing. It's about time you stepped up to the plate.