DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski sign contract extensions with the Browns

I see your obsession hasn't subsided.

The Redskins , Lions, and Texans have only won 2 playoff games since Berry and Kevin took over. So just how many NFl teams have won more playoff games since 2020? TWELVE 4 other teams won 1 the same number as the Browns, and 15 didn't win a single playoff game.

You do realize that Pittsburgh has had 1 season at .500 and 19 seasons with a winning record over the last 20 years don't you (18 straight winning seasons)? That they have been in the playoffs 14 of those 20 years while participating in 3 Super Bowls, winning 2 and losing 1. JMHO but banging the drum for the Browns 1 playoff win in over 20 years as being a dark mark on the Steelers is quite a stretch coming from you. Our Browns can only dream of having a FO and leadership that's 20% as good as what they have had in Pittsburgh. Obviously, the Browns current FO and HC don't come close to Pittsburgh's crew with Berry's and Stefanski's 5-year losing record. I'm a Browns fan through and through and I can only hope we get a FO and leadership like Pittsburgh continually seems to have.

The biggest difference between the Steelers and the Browns is they do not change Coaches and Front Offices all of the time. Stability is key in long lasting success. In the last 50 years they have had what 3 coaches. Why before then they were the laughingstock of the NFL and changed coaches all of the time. They learned a valuable lesson and since 1969 has had only 3 coaches. Now the Browns are the laughingstock of the NFL because they change coaches and FO's all of the time. Now we have a 2-time NFL coach of the year. Let's try stability and build off 1 vision instead of changing course every couple year. That does not work never has and never will.

and that has nothing to do with some posters around here bashing the hell out of our current front office for their results over the last five years. Y'all want to compare apples that's fine. But stop comparing apples to watermelons.

I don't disagree with your observation of Pittsburgh. Stability has its positives but along with stability comes accountability. The Coach of the Year selection is based on getting your players to overachieve. Stefanski can tuck that feather in his hat, but he also should be held accountable for the seasons his teams have underachieved. Over the course of the 5 years, the accountability label has not been applied because the Browns have a losing record.

Over the last 5-years, 14 teams in the NFL have a losing record. 13 of the 14 teams have changed HC's and/or FO during this time frame. Only the Cleveland Browns have not made a change and possess a 5-year losing record. In fact, the Browns must go 11-6 in 2025 just to get 1 game over .500 for Stefanski and Berry's 6-year term. Considering the Browns 2025 schedule and still unresolved QB issues, 11-6 seems highly unlikely but I've seen stranger things happen in the NFL. In any case, stability has its positives but without accountability it means nothing. If the Browns don't go at least 11-6 in 2025, the question then becomes when will accountability be a deciding factor? As you clearly pointed out, Pittsburgh has a franchise with great stability, they also demand accountability as their results show over the last 20 years. Great accountability makes stability an easy choice, but a team without accountability is just spinning their wheels because it doesn't matter how stable your HC or FO is over the period if there's no accountability.

Apples to apples - 5 years compared to 5-years - 1 team has a winning season every year and the other doesn't.

Is the difference the decision making or the players that are available when the decisions are being made?

The Commanders, Texans, and Bengals were pretty bad when good QBs essentially fell into their laps.

We had different "decision makers" when the other teams got their QBs.

Baker had to grow up. It's not something anyone can force someone else to do. Would it have happened if he hadn't been shown the door by multiple teams?

I also think ownership can tilt the scale. Mr. Haslam appears to be learning to let his chosen leaders lead their way, somewhat.... ...Maybe.

I also think it helps when the other teams in your division aren't very good, or have bad injury luck.

When the other teams are good and you have bad injury luck and players available don't meet your needs ideally, there aren't always amazing decisions to be made. Yet, you still have to try to make lemonade out of lemons.

Watson turned out to be an unpalatable lemon for the team.

Hopefully, we can get the "good system" back firing on all cylinders and Gabriel fits into it.

One team's starting QB played 19 games over the past 3 seasons.

Kenny Pickett started 12 in '22 and '23 and Wilson started 11 last year (4-2 with Fields before he took over.) The most games Watson started over that span was 7.

The Steelers haven't won a playoff game since 2016. The Browns beat the Steelers, in the playoffs, in 2020.

I believe Haslam took the accountability for the record with Watson. He decided to make the trade for Watson, and he swung and missed and admitted to the mistake. Berry and Stefanski should not be held accountable for 2018 selection of QB and missing on Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. The Owner moved all in on Deshaun Watson. And now he is allowing Berry and Stefanski find their QB. They took fliers on Gabriel and Sanders this year and acquired an extra 1st next year to find that QB. Stefanki has proven that with just adequate QB play 2020 and 2023 he can get a team to the playoffs. He was handed an average at best QB and the Owner swung and missed on a trade for a QB. What other accountability would you like to see. Let's fire people and continue the same cycle of ineptness this Francise has had since 1999 or work with a group that has proven they can win with adaquate QB play and attempt to get them a franchise QB.

If we are going to talk about it, let's talk about it.

The Commanders are the anomaly here that I can't really argue against. Rivera came in with a team that hadn't been to the playoffs in 5 years, went to the playoffs his first season, missed them 3 years in a row and he was canned. Maybe too soon, maybe not... They were 0-1 in his reign... Then Dan Quinn took over last year and took them back to the playoffs in his first season as coach, with Jayden Daniels having a rookie of the year impact. So, they have had 2 appearances in 5 years, with 2 wins(both the same season), unlike Stefanski and Berry, however, it was with two different regimes.

Out of the rest of the 13 teams, the Browns are also only 1 of 3 teams to win a playoff game in the last five seasons.

The other teams playoffs...

Colts 0-1
Titans 0-2
Raiders 0-1
Cardinals 0-1
Broncos 0-1 under first year coach Sean Payton
Patriots 0-1 under Bill Bellichick
Falcons 0-0 7 seasons streak
Texans 0-3, Democo Ryans took over and have been the past two seasons with CJ Stroud
Bears 0-1 haven't had a winning season in 6 years
Giants 1-1, Daboll is entering year 4 and only making the playoffs once, but still has his job. This is a situation similar to the Browns
Jaguars 1-1, only 1 appearance in 7 seasons, Doug Peterson is going into year 4 with a franchise QB in the stable.
Jets 14 year playoff drought
Panthers 7 year playoff drought

So, the Browns are the only team dealing with the Desaun Watson debacle... There isn't even a close similarity to that situation in the NFL in decades. Despite that, this regime is still one of only 4 teams on this list to win a playoff game in that span.

When you say "They have a 5 year losing record" It is so purposely deceiving, it's borderline ridiculous. They have a losing record 3 out of the 5 years, which is a good point in YOUR argument, but taking away last year's debacle, they are 37-30 over the 4 year span.

Take away the best and worst season of each of these 14 teams:

Browns 26 wins
Chargers 26 wins
Colts 26 wins

Titans 24 wins

Commanders 22 wins
Raiders 22 wins

Patriots 21 wins
Falcons 21 wins

Cardinals 20 wins
Broncos 20 wins

It gets worse from there, no one else reached 20 wins, you get my point...

But here are teams with a winning record over the past 5 seasons that didn't beat that 26 wins either...

Lions 26 wins

Saints 25 wins

My point is, changing coaches doesn't elude to more wins necessarily. Changing the roster typically does. The Browns hands have been tied for the previous 3 seasons in that respect because of a single move their owner made. He tied up a lot of money in one player and they only had One 2nd round draft pick in the first two rounds of the previous (3) drafts. That is crippling, yet, they were able to win at or better than the bottom half of the league under those circumstances.

Let me ask you this, if Andy Reid retires and they replace him with a new coach... but the roster stays intact... do you expect them to miss the playoffs any time soon? Now, make that replacement name be Kevin Stefanski, do you feel the same?

Second scenario, same rosters, same coaching staff....

Change out Patrick Mahomes for Deshaun Watson, do you think the Browns are playoff contenders year in and year out? How about the Chiefs?

There is a lot that goes into being a successful franchise, the owner can cripple a team as fast as any GM in this league. In this case, the owner crippled a team, and they won more games than they probably should have.

and just what prize do you get for ending up at 9-7 or 10-6 VS 3-14 or 7-9? How does that help us win a Super Bowl? What good does it do making the playoffs and losing every year?

Do you want the Browns to win a Super Bowl or just having winning records every regular season?
Do you want them to be able to compete for the superbowl or just make the playoffs?



Just tell me In your opinion what did Kevin do the seasons he wasn't stuck with Watson? and How would any other team in the NFL have done with Watson at QB the last 3 seasons?

Apples to Apples Steve your smart enough to do that.

and Did that give them a Super Bowl win.... NOPE
did it even get them to the SuperBowl.... NO
Did they get to the AFC Championship game... Nope
Did they even win a single playoff game.... NOPE


At the end of the year they ended up in being in the same place as the Browns sitting at home wishing they were still playing, and that my friend is the Bottom line.

Yet to get to that Super Bowl, you have to be a playoff contender. That, more often than not, means you have to have a winning record to get to the playoffs noting that not every winning record team makes it either. Once there, a lot of things must break your way to continue on and/or reach the Super Bowl. Just last year, the Steelers were predicted to be in last place within the division. Yet again, they performed well enough to have another winning season and a place in the playoffs. Now you can complain and be negative about Pittsburgh's playoff results (what a nice place to be) but what you can't complain about is their consistent ability to get there - the 1st step toward the ultimate goal of the Super Bowl. I'll take 7 0f 10 years in the playoffs any day of the week because you cannot win the Super Bowl if you're not in the playoffs first.

And Watson sucked again.

So you are stating that you would not complain at all if the Browns made the playoffs 7 out of 10 years, but never won a playoff game? But the Browns HAVE won a playoff game in the past 5 years and you are complaining.

It sounds like you should abandon ship and just become a Steelers fan.

On one hand, you want to replace the regime if they don't win games... even though they have won more playoff games than the other team. But the same regime in PA doesn't win playoff games and you think they are in a good place as a franchise.

Tomlin inherited a perennial playoff WINNING team, won with the same roster for the 2 of the next 6 seasons, and hasn't won another playoff game in 9 years.

But it is your testimonial that you would be satisfied with just having winning seasons and not winning playoff games.

I call bull$h17

Not to mention that we all know plenty of times of coaches getting canned with a winning record solely because of playoff losing.

I hope I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, but I think steve is just doing a REALLY poor job of making his argument.

If Tomlin or Shanny Jr. were canned by their orgs, would there be anyone here that wouldn't want to go out and get them? I like KS as much as anyone on here, but that doesn't mean there's no room to upgrade.

The Browns need stability as much as anything else as a franchise. I hated the Baker Mayfield pick when it happened. I did not think he was big enough or good enough to win a Super Bowl. I still do not believe he will. With that said I would not have traded him and would not have made the trade for Deshuan Watson. When the trade happened, Watson was a far superior QB to Mayfield. I did not like moving on from the stability achieved in the Baker draft pick and I would have stayed the course until a better opportunity arose. I did get behind the trade after it happened because he was a chance to win big and understood why they would have done what they did to get what they thought was a franchise QB. That did not work out. Stability should have been the play, and the team should have stayed with Baker until they got a chance to draft a true franchise QB. Stability is the key with coach and GM also. Stay the course is the best play here also.

No, I am not saying that not winning playoff games is satisfactory. However, you have to win to get to that plateau. As oober said, If Tomlin or Shanny Jr were canned by their orgs, nearly every poster here would want the Browns to go out and get them. Why, because they win and make it to the playoffs. Again, I will stress, you cannot win a Super Bowl unless you get to the playoffs first. To get to the playoffs you have to win. Starting 9 or more games, Pittsburgh has done that with 3 different QB's the last 5 years. SFO has done that with 3 different QB's the last 5 years. Both teams have winning records over the last 5 years. So yeah, I'd be satisfied if the Browns won enough games to be in the playoffs 4 of the next 5-years and not winning a playoff game because you have to win first before you can be a playoff contender, no matter how stable your franchise is - the Browns don't have that in Berry and Stefanski.

Stability means nothing when the leadership screams incompetence.
Our last four seasons has been a roller coaster of bad decision making, drama’s and conflict’s.

As long as we can’t accept that our results the last couple of seasons is the true measurement of the qualities of the Browns leadership then nothing will really change.
The journey with one step forward and then two steps back has a huge probability to continue until some changes at the top will occur.

Funny being around Steeler fans all my life I hear some of them witching just like you about the Steelers front office.

"Leadership" is more about handling whatever happens than being fortunate enough to have nothing bad ever happen. Not everything is in someone's control.

How did you come up with your "huge probability?" In my Browns experience, "change" (in leadership) has in multiple cases led to more and bigger steps back.

Results at a specific point in time are not a "true measurement" of leadership. That's a faulty premise. It's a "measurement" of the state of a team, but leadership has no control over injuries or other teams simply being more talented.

Show me a "leader" that never had a bad season. Before you point to Tomlin, remember he wasn't always in Pittsburgh. He was previously DC in Minnesota with the 31st ranked pass D (6-10 record.)

The situation one has to lead through is a big factor in what happens. Pittsburgh was 15-1, 11-5, and 8-8 the seasons before Tomlin got there. They finished the 2006 season on a 6-2 run. They had Roethlisberger at QB. He wasn't overseeing a complete rebuild.

Bill Walsh had losing seasons. So did Belichick.

Some situations can't instantly be led out of. They have to be led through step by uncomfortable step. Leadership is an ongoing process not a result.

I think every person who has opined on this topic is supportive of continuity and sees the importance of it. The only real difference is how much time is enough time to show that the current continuity should...well...continue.

Some think this FO deserves more time...some don't. Both sides usually make a compelling case. The only thing actually being debated is how much time is enough time?

Respectfully, Floquinho, I have some responses for you, and none are personal attacks, just reactions.

I have read your posts, usually do. I share in the pain you express. Add to your lists of issues regularly cited, that we had injuries and horrible play onfield in a scheme that failed to produce. We also had an ongoing plague of penalties and flags galore. I read posts and see what has you angered, justifiably so. I am saying "So what?" What is this organization going to look like going forward, assuming we can embrace and halt the negatives you repeat? My question is simple, but complex at the same time. If w e halt poor decisions, drama, and all the rest of the negatives you list post after post, what do the Browns and this FO look like going forward? I would love to know what would halt/replace/fix/address your concerns. But I would like to understand what the positive model at the far end of this tunnel looks like.

I am beyond and abandoned all the Mayfield noise and rehashing. That is past; plenty left to address. This post just follows some advice for business and personal dealings that I feel has obvious merit: Don't fix blame. Fix problems. How can the upcoming season be improved as we launch Rookie Camp?

This’s a good post with necessary questions.

The foundation for every organization or business to have a chance to be successful is by large a couple of fundamental cornerstones

1. A strong and competent leadership.
2. A well defined business idea.
3. A goal.
4. A vision and a path of how to move forward.

Progression isn’t linear. There’re mostly three phases and every phase brings it’s on challenges.

1. Phase one needs an entrepreneur who’s a strong minded leader who’s not afraid to twist and tweak or if necessary change direction.
2. Phase two is when the business/organization is established and has a mature structure. (competence on most positions)
3. Finally is the rebuild phase when the business idea or the product has to be upgraded and the leadership needs to be modernized.

The Cleveland Browns are atm in both phase two and three.

These’re the questions every Browns supporter should ask themselves.

Do the Browns have a the right leadership to be successful in a rebuild phase?
Is there a well defined business idea (in football terms - identity) on how to move forward?
What’s the short, middle and long term goal? (Just getting better isn’t a specific goal - tell me an organization that doesn’t want to get better?)

Drafting and sign four quarterbacks with different characteristics screams insecurity and shows that the organization isn’t on the same page on how to move forward.

What the Browns needs is a strong leader who takes control and make the whole organization to work against the same goal.
In 2021 the leadership said that the Browns had a mantra to rally around and encourage them through hard times—"Smart, tough, accountable." Those three attributes weren't only what they were looking for in the players, but as an organization.

That’s was the Browns business idea. What’s left 2025?

Without a leader who is willing to work under that mantra it’s hard to see changes. Improvements come from what you do, not cheap words.

I hope that Stefanski is wise enough to keep both Gabriel and Sanders on the roster. We need guys who’s willing to take accountability, who’s tough and smart enough to create a new and better working environment. You can all say whatever you want about Baker but he was a fighter and a tough son of a bi*ch. The Browns need more players and coaches with his mentality, not less.

I have high hopes that Dillon or Shedeur can take leadership and show the rest of the organization what real leaders can do.
My only concern is Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski and what happened when they face attitude and some swagger, do we see a new Baker Mayfield situation?

Thank you for this. Bard

I love this layout for successful organizations. It allows us to look at the business side of any organization and what it takes to be successful. Let's break it down:

Foundation;
1. Haslem, love him or hate him he is a great business leader that has seen success at all levels. He does not buy into something that he isn't immediately looking to improve. CHECK
2. Under the guise of the NFL Shield, the idea is already in place. He has found a way to skirt that idea in a small market to maximize it's value. CHECK
3. This is simple. Besides the Cincinnati Bengals, the goal is a Super Bowl trophy. That is the point of sport, win the highest level of their league. Now, within that goal, you move on to progression phase, so we will keep this simple. CHECK
4. Haslem obvioulsy has a clear vision, otherwise he wouldn't have changed leadership with 4 GMs and 5 head coaches in his first 7 years. If anything, he is a good judge of leadership, he has built several businesses and that is the mainstay of building success. In 2020, it seems that he has found the combination he had been searching 8 years for when he hired Andrew Berry and then Berry hired Kevin Stefanski. How do I know he is confident in those hires in sharing his vision and path? Despite all the negativity you have been writing about on these boards, HE has given them a contract extension to carry out his path. CHECK

Progression, I agree it isn't linear, there are many ebbs and flows that interrupt the path to success that must be overcome to get to your ultimate goal.
1. This is a little redundant, I think we established Haslem as the ultimate leader. Unfortunately he is sometimes too unafraid to twist and tweak that direction, stepping out of his lane to make decisions that may not be in the best interest of keeping on that linear path, it's one of the ultimate challenges leadership must overcome on their path. CHECK
2. This organization phase has been in place since 2012. Through those management changes, the Browns did not make the playoffs one time. Since the current management change, in 5 years, they have made what you have already established as the only path to the goal, making the playoffs. 5 years into the plan, everyone within the Browns organization seem to be on the same page and are currently in a mature structure. CHECK
3. This is the ultimate fallacy of any sports minded fan... A professional sports organization is always in rebuild mode. If it were to stop, they would never win a game. The thing is, it is player related and not business or leadership minded. You must be able to decipher between proper upgrades and moves that are detrimental to the success of a team year over year. Does a regime change structure just for the sake of change or do they perform their duties to keep foundations of that structure in place in order to build upon the foundation?

#3 of progression is where we fundamentally take different forks in the road. I personally feel this regime has built in foundations in which they have nurtured during their 5 years, while moving on from aspects they deemed detrimental to success. The biggest move that was wrong, I personally believe was driven by ownership, he has owned up to that decision and everyone needs to move on.

Otherwise, Berry has extended contracts of those that are deemed in their prime and continue to tweak those other needs to find success, which they have done twice in five years. The more fundamental pieces are placed, the more consistency with success you will see. Haslem took the ability to add pieces through the draft for (3) years in a row. As soon as that barrier was lifted, Berry went back to work in the draft. He was able to add at least (3) pieces that will immediately show an impact and possibly a couple of others that will contribute to the impact.

Stefanski has won 2 Coach of the Year honors in 5 seasons. This is not given to the guy who wins the Super Bowl every year. This is a prize given by his peers that look at the total picture and deem the coach that does the most with adversity within the season. There are great coaches blessed with great QBs and more pieces that are always in contention for the end of the playoff run season in and season out because their path is for the most part complete and they only have to manage it. We have not yet seen a complete roster for Stefanski to manage. What he has done with major holes to date though is very encouraging. I for one want to see him complete the journey.


Players... This is where we see things extremely different, either you are not paying attention or you are ignorant to the players themselves. I see that in the very first sentence in this quote.

Do you really see four QBs with different characteristics? I see a veteran as an outlier, but one that has already shown leadership and success within the confines of the system. He isn't the future, but if the others are all at a level they are not ready to lead a team to early success, he is a necessity all the same.

The other three are actually very similar in what they do. One that has some, but not a lot of professional experience and the other two that have very similar qualities and were successful in the college ranks. All three of the latter players though show a tendency to protect the ball and make quick decisions, which is necessary for Stefanski's system. What we need to find out is whether any of them have the football IQ to do it at the level needed for success.

This is NOT a complete breakout rebuild. The foundations for success are there with the same players that have been to the playoffs and won a game on this roster. The other pieces are being tweaked to find long term success.

Do I think they have won the lottery and found a future QB, no... I do not have that confidence. I am excited about the new young prospects, but frankly, I don't see a sustainable player capable of winning a game if the team were to fall behind by two TDs. They will be able to play from in front. If the running game becomes successful and they build early leads, the team will find success. If mistakes are made early and a game plan is abandoned too early, then they will have a hard time winning games. Flacco is the only one on the team right now that I would have faith as a comeback QB. He however is in his twilight and will have diminishing skills every game he plays. He is just as likely to put us into comeback situations as he is to actually win them.

That being said, Berry was able to put us into the best situation possible in 2026 to upgrade the position if their is someone in the draft that can. Who knows what other opportunities might be available in the 2026 off season that were not in 2025. This was a historically bad season to try to upgrade the most important position in the NFL. I do believe they upgraded the defensive line, the linebacker group, the running back room and the TE group. If all are reality, this team will be better than they were in 2024 by a large margin. Frankly, I think 2025 depends solely on Joe Flacco. If he is 80% of what he was in the past, they can win games they shouldn't. If he has dropped below that level, they will lose more games because of him.

That's my $2 worth...

40-44 Check! ( )

First thanks for your lengthy response. I don’t agree with all of it but I enjoyed reading it.
Always good with different perspectives.

I can unfortunately already see the embryo of a new quarterback selection drama in 2025.
Team Sanders vs. The rest including Flacco, Dillon, many Browns supporters and some of the leadership.

Yada yada whatever….

The correlation between bad results/decision making and the lack of culture/leadership its obvious for most people with the slightest understanding of the importance of a strong and competent leadership. Bad decision making that creates bad results doesn’t appear from a vacuum. Someone makes the decisions and those who do are often the main culprits, is often that simple.

Do you mean like 2023?

I think the selection of Gabriel was an attempt to put more importance on the leadership aspect of QB. We've had some lousy QB leaders in a me-centric sort of way (and coaches and GMs-Hue, Dorsey, etc.) Gabriel seems much more of a "we" (not wee, smh) guy. Think that's also true for Stefanski and Berry, unfortunately, their deference to others can be to their (and the team's) detriment at times. But, the owner gets what he wants when he decides to inject himself, and there's not much anyone else can do about it.

Shedeur Sanders is the people’s choice and that is so evident for those who follows social media and listen to the national sports shows.
Since number 12 arrived in Cleveland he has talked and act like a young FQB and at the moment the son of Prime dominates the headlines. I’m not sure everyone inside Berea are comfortable with how this saga has developed.
Exclusive interview with Shedeur

At some point internal politics and financial priorities will dictate the future and a certain owner will probably have his say before any final decision is taken about who’s to stay or not, but the expected drama has already started, whatever we like it or not.

Anyway I’m a newly member of Team Shedeur. I like him.

Colin Cowherd’s take on Shedeur and the Browns leadership

...Hopefully the winner of the competition is decided by the football and not as a People's Choice Award....

I don't want him yet. This is not a popularity poll. There has been nothing in front of him yet to base a decision on him being a FQB. At this point that is laughable and premature IMO. be an outspoken fan; I hope for success for all our players. You are welcome to your impression, but it is almost all baseless at this point in time. We need to see much more to establish that later, if we can do so at all.

Incompetence is like certain uncomfortable virus. Sometimes you don’t see or feel it but when you least expect it’s there again.

Zac Jackson of the Athletic was on the Ultimate Cleveland Sports show yesterday and said nothing will be determined between he and Gabriel until pads are on and real football is played. But standing behind both Sanders a Gabriel, he said it was not even close between the two of them. The ball just pops out of Sanders hand. He said there is a very noticeable difference.

Wasn't Brady Quinn also a media darling and "the people's choice"?

I also just want to point out that quoting Cowherd is gonna do the opposite of support your argument.

Sadly none of that will make him a franchise QB.

I remember when Kelly Holcomb was the people's choice too.

He is a Cleveland Brown so I hope everything works out. But five QB's were selected before him for a reason. That isn't some guarantee he will fail but it certainly makes him being a success needing to beat out some long odds against it.

And I have no idea what any of that has to do with the Browns making the playoffs in 2023 which was the very quote you were addressing.

"Things that make you go hmmmm for $500 Alex."

I have no problem with other people’s opinions and if you listen closely good old Colin contradicted himself but in the end his opinion is probably as valid as your or mine.

This subject isn’t a black or white thing, it’s more about what kind of components we value in a competent leadership.
What’s right leadership in one organization can be totally wrong somewhere else.

Timing, luck and unpredictable circumstances plays often a more significant part than we think of whenever a new leader takes charge.

Don't get me wrong... he's a Browns QB so I'm all about it if he shows he's "the guy". I'll be sincerely joyful that we finally found our franchise QB.


But he was a 5th rounder for a reason. If any team had seen potential of him being a fQB, he'd have been gone long before we got him. The NFL has a long and consistent history of overlooking glaring issues if a QB prospect showed potential of being a viable starter in the league. I'm not about to hang my hat on a Cle Browns 5th round QB pick.