DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Trade for Kenny Pickett

Pickett has historically looked phenomenal in preseason and then come back down to Earth in week 1. That said, I could see the argument of throwing him (a vet with an outside chance of catching on with KS) into the fire and seeing what happens. If I had more confidence that Flacco would hold up against the beating of an NFL season, I'd want to flip Pickett.

Plus, our offseason moves don't exactly scream "we're gonna make some noise this year".

There’re two competitions from my perspective.

Flacco vs. Pickett and Gabriel vs. Sanders.

The sooner Stefanski can figure out who’s his preferred starter thes better.

If Pickett plays well, the concern will be how much he will cost the Browns next year.

I am curious what Stefanski does with these two rookie quarterbacks. Play a rotational mix having Flacco/PIckett, Gabriel, and Sanders play every third game!

Ideally, I would like to see Gabriel or Sanders start next year with the other as a backup. Then draft another quarterback next year. It doesn't necessarily need to be a first round.

Musgrave, the quarterback coach, is the key figurehead here. I assume he had input on who to draft, and whether he can make one a starter.

I don't think Cleveland will follow traditional rules when it comes to coaching these two quarterbacks. Stefanski will receive a lot of flak because he is not doing it correctly. In the end, we find our guy!

I believe the goal at QB is as follows

1) Pickett vs Flacco to start the season. Loser will get traded or cut.
2) If Pickett wins then the season is all about Stefanski and staff developing him into a franchise QB. If not when to start the rookies. If he does somehow develop into a franchise QB the Browns will find the $$$ to keep him.
If Flacco he will start as long as healthy, and Browns are contending. As soon as they stop contending it will be time for the rookies.
3) Who wins the QB battle between Gabriel and Sanders. The winner will get first crack to show if they possibly could show potential to be a franchise QB. Probably get 4 to 5 games to show real improvement.
4) If 1st rookie does not show improvement the loser of QB battle will get remainder of season or 4 to 5 games depending on where they are at during the season to show potential to be franchise QB.

Bottom line is when 2025 season ends Browns staff needs to know if they must use a 1st round pick on a QB or not. If Pickett starts the season and leads the Browns to the playoffs the Browns will move forward with him at QB, probably keeping the two rookies as backups into 2026, and use the two 1st to improve the team. If Flacco somehow leads the team to the playoffs the Browns will probably still draft a QB to hopefully be franchise QB of the future. If a rookie takes over then more than likely the Browns are out of the playoffs and whether or not they show enough potential to possibly be a franchise QB. If one of them does 2026 they will get the start, and the 1st will be used to improve the team. If neither does, then a 1st or both 1sts used to trade up to try to get a QB in next year's draft.

Not that I 100% agree with your theory, but this is the part of your scenario I have the biggest question about..............


We had a QB that could lead the team to the playoffs when healthy. This owner and FO didn't believe that was enough. They wanted a QB who was talented enough to lead this team to and give them a realistic path to win the SB. That after all is the ultimate goal. Now we can all debate whether we saw Mayfield in that light but the Browns certainly didn't. And I think we can all agree that watson didn't end up being that guy. But their goal remains the same. A franchise QB that has a legitimate shot of winning a SB.

So I'm not sure Pickett leading the Browns to the playoffs is enough to move forward with him as the future at the QB position. If the Browns make the playoffs based heavily on the run game and D I don't think that will be nearly enough for them nor should it.

They used great efforts to set themselves up in the perfect position to attempt drafting a franchise QB next year. Unless they actually Pickett look like a "franchise QB" I don't believe anything else will matter to them.

That is a good point. I guess it will just depend then how low the Jags pick is or how far can packaging picks get the Browns up to draft a QB they feel could be better than Pickett and the rookies at that point. I do think that had the QB you are referencing been more mature they would have given him 1 more season to develop. That is why the adult in the room comment was made. The Browns did not sign Pickett's 5th year option so to bring him back they will either commit to him with a 3-to-4-year contract or franchise tag him for 1 year. Besides that, he will walk like Sam Darnold did this off season.

I think we're pretty much on the same page here.

I never thought much of Pickett, but the points on Canada vs Stefanski and the effect of that difference are legit. Pickett might be a whole lot better than I remember.

Flacco is what he is and that will be good enough for a winning record. Pickett needs to be better than that.... but, at age 40, I could see Flacco wanting to just roll as the backup. Step in as needed, but otherwise only has to worry about being prepared and can save his body from that weekly beating. So, I look for Pickett to start and Flacco to be the backup. If Pickett falters and doesn't look good enough, however, to the point where we need to start Flacco, then I expect that he will just be released.

As for Sanders and Gabriel. I honestly don't know why we even drafted Sanders except to perhaps troll Deion (which I'm good with because it is hilarious).
I suspect that one of these two will look sufficiently terrible in camp and preseason that they will be cut.

I heard that if Shedeur doesn't start, Prime's putting him in the transfer portal.

Could be. And what’s with the name Shedeur? Family name?

I agree. It's not uncommon for a QB to take 4-5 years to find his footing. At least the guys who aren't going to be outright stars in the league, but they can be very good. Add it that Pittsburgh had a very questionable O the past few years.

Stefanski has a fairly friendly QB system. If the QB has to carry the team, other parts of the O aren't working. If Pickett can't seize the starting role and keep it, he is going to be a back-up the rest of his career.

I wonder how many folks around here would rather have our QB rooms from the last 10 years.

2015 Manzell, Mccown, Austin Davis, Connor Shaw, and Pat Devlin

Maybe 2017 Kizer, Cody Kessler, Kevin Hogan

hmmmm 2019 Mayfield, Gilbert, and Drew Stanton

2021 Baker, Keenan, and Nick Mullins.


We have a proven vet this year in Flacco, 3 young QB's who have a chance to be good (honestly tell me the last year the Browns had 3 young QB's with potential) AND we have two 1st round picks next season.

Color me excited

I agree. Add in we have added two fresh, talented backs and a TE prospect who looks like he can be a major component to the offensive side of the ball.

I don't see this as a throw away season at all. I see a O that will be able to control the ball and put up some points. Add that to a D that looks to be pretty stout and we could be a big surprise around the league.

I think that Flacco is the only one that should bring any excitement, and I love what he did here last time, but that excitement should be tempered. He isn't surprising anyone this time around. Teams know who he is and what he brings to this system.
The rest bring only questions and ambivalence.... and that dreaded word: potential.


We traded for him, so Pickett will be here, but he was BAD against us. His BEST game, in terms of completion percentage, he was 15/28 for an average of 3.8 yds per attempt. His best game in terms of yards, he was 15/30 (two extra attempts, same completions) for an average of 7.4 per attempt. He averaged taking two sacks per game against us and his lone saving grace statistically is that he takes care of the ball and didn't throw many INTs (one). He beat Watson twice. Lost to DTR once.

I can't see him being the gunslinger that Joe is. He is a game manager, he doesn't strike me as one that will push the ball downfield so defenses will just sit short & intermediate on him and dare him to beat them and he will go to the check-down. Basically, it feels like we're just kicking the tires on somebody else's used car. Who knows... maybe that Check Engine light was just him needing an oil change? Maybe Matt Canada was the problem? It's probably a bad computer, though...


Hmmmm, maybe this season really is all about the QBs in the next draft??

I think the real question with Kenny Pickett or Gabriel or Sanders is can any of them be Kirk Cousins running Stefanski's system? Can he produce around 65% completion percentage? Be close to a 30 td to 10 int QB and throw for over 3,000 yards in the process. Lean on a strong running game, don't put the defense in bad situations, and protect the ball. Stefanki is not looking for Peyton Manning although he would take him if he was available. He is looking for Kirk Cousins 2018 / 2019 to pair with a rushing attack and strong defense. Can any of the 3 potential QB's rise to that level of play. In 2018 Kirk Cousins was 425 cmp out of 606 att for 70.1 cmp % for 4,298 yards with 30 td and 10 ints. In 2019 he was 307 cmp out of 444 att for 69.1 cmp % for 3,603 yards with 26 td to 6 ints. Those Kirk Cousin stats got Stefanski the Browns job, and he is looking for that QB here with the Browns.

Like I said when was the last time the Browns had 3 QB's on their roster with potential? The answer is NEVER



If it is we have two first round picks.

Yep I'm still pumped.

Well, we've THOUGHT we had that many times over the last twenty-odd years. It was just never actually true, and still may not be.

I don't think Pickett can. I think he can protect the ball, but I don't think he can do the rest. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. Again, the Matt Canada factor comes into play, but the best Pickett has done is 63% and two INTs for every three TDs. It is a VERY limited sample size, but they also aren't good samples.

Sanders: he is almost definitely NOT the guy that is going to live up to "don't put the defense in bad situations". I think that he's going to take lots of bad sacks in the same way DTR did and make lots of bad throws in the same manner. Plus, there is the questions surrounding how much of what success he had was Hunter and their system.


Gabriel is the big question mark, I think. Statistically, his history says that he IS that guy, and in multiple programs: UCF, Oklahoma, and Oregon. That is very encouraging to me. It proves that HE can do it, and not just as a product of scheme or his WRs.

I have to say that Flacco is two years older now, Pickett has shown that he did a great job of getting a ticket out of Pittsburgh and we have third and fifth round rookies. Of course I hope for the best but I have no idea what all of the excitement is about. The way I see it is the Browns pray on the outside chance one of them pans out while having set themselves up to draft a QB next year due the likelihood that the best they will do with the rookie QB's is find a competent backup.

FWIW: it is being reported that heading into OTA's and the first mandatory minicamp, Picket is #1 and Gabriel is #2.

Honestly, I'm surprised, but a few things:

1. it's just the initial reps of OTA's... it will likely change daily
2. they already know what they have in Flacco, so he doesn't need as much and they know he can just step right in at any point.

I think that is about it, unless we catch lightning with one of the rookies, we're really looking at 2026.

The veterans are just to get us through the season. Flacco is probably just a mentor for the rookies and emergency guy if the rookies aren't "ready" whenever Pickett gets hurt. Given how many really bad QBs we've trotted out, "ready" is likely a very low bar.

I guess I'm just really bummed we didn't make a big move for the Oline. Going into the season with Conklin and DJones and ??? at OT has me VERY scared. If the line starts getting banged up and relying on depth, we could be in a LOT of trouble. Questions at QB and rookies at RB isn't enough to fall back on.

While Cornelius Lucas is not the long-term answer at Tackle, he is capable of filling in well if called upon. Quite a bit of experience and grades well in PFF in the past. He can play both sides and will be the teams swing tackle. Also, Tevin Jenkins was brought in to compete at tackle. He has played some tackle in the past the Bears had him mainly at guard and he played well for them when not injured. He wants to be a tackle and took less money with the Browns because they are given him the opportunity to play tackle. He could win the left tackle spot competing with Jones. Depth will be better on the Oline this year especially if Zac Zinter makes the expected jump from year 1 to year 2. He started last year off hurt from the end of his college career so he should be much improved with an entire off season to get ready. Biggest question mark is can either Dewand Jones or Tevin Jenkins play well at Left tackle. The line play in general should improve a lot just going back to the wide zone blocking scheme. Many players on the line were not suited for the change in line play last year.

I wish I had your optimism.
Last year the Browns offense averaged less points per game than the 99
Expansion team . Think about that for a second. The NFL has never made it easier
For the offenses to capitalize on the rules favoring the offense
Yet the Browns can barely muster 19 pts a game
What offsesson additions did the Browns make on offense
To improve the pathetic offensive output for 2024 .?
Added 4 QBs who of 2 who have started NFL games before
Yet nor Flacco or Pickett couldn't start for another franchise
I'm not understanding all this love for Pickett around here .
He was actually laughed at when the Steelers drafted him
Pickett is not a starting caliber QB. He can't play off script
His arm lacks power and velocity
And Flacco is on his last team .
My gosh I remember when Jake Delhomme was signed
And the sunshine and lollipop card members thought the Browns
Offense was sky's the limit
And what WRs did the Browns add to scare defenses ?
None .
And the oline. Worst in the AFC . I don't see a oline that can simply
Overpower dlines . Teams are gonna simply overload the box and
Force Pickett / Flacco to somehow become dangerous gunslingers

Flacco IS a dangerous gunslinger. His age doesn’t matter that much.
He drops back
7-10 yards
Throws the ball sometimes it’s good
Sometimes it isn’t

He and Jeudy will be liking each other

Joe is-our starter
Day 1 Mark my words

Lot's of talk about LT.

Play Gabe and we won't have to worry about LT as much.

Defenses are going to simply double Jerry Jeudy downfield
And Jeudy has yet to show he can't beat double teams
He rarely faced double coverage in Denver or even last year
Sorry but a 40 year QB is on his 5th team in 5 years for a reason
He is 8 19 as a starter over the past few seasons
Take away that fluke 4 1 stint with the Browns and the record is worse

Lets see where do we start.

1. Stopped kissing DW's backside.
2. Fired Dorsey
3. fired Andy Dickerson
4. Hired Tommy Rees
5. Going back to a proven offensive style.
6. Drafted not one but TWO exciting RB's
7 Hired Mike Bloomgren.
8. Promoted Bill Musgrave to QB coach.
9. Signed Cornelius to a two year contract.
10. Stopping kissing DW's backside

Ok so you fired Dorsey and the oline Coach. And replaced them
With what proven coaches? Tommy Rees is a 1st yr OC in
the NFL. OMG he's the Ben Johnson or Dan Pitcher
Every few years the Browns get a new OC and of a sudden
Here comes the hype.
Are you joking....Bill Musgrave . He's been with half the league
On 1 year trial periods . He can't keep a job . What great QB hss he
Ever developed?
How many rookie RBs come in and right away elevated doormat
Offenses. I'm talking over the last 5 years .
RBs are revolving doors now . Yeah yeah every fan
Thinks their team drafts exciting explosive RBs.
We will see how Judkins and Sampson run behind
A oline that lacks cohesion and proven results
The Browns offense really scares no one
It's very much a work in progress .
There isn't 1 Browns offensive player that's in top 10 in his position
Other than Njoku maybe Bitinio. That's it

I don't see the Browns offense being explosive and putting 30+ pts a game on the board. I do believe it will be improved in 2025. Going back to 12 and 13 personnel with the zone blocking scheme that plays to the strength of players like Bitonio and Teller will have a positive impact. The running backs are rookies so we should temper our expectations and not expect Judkins to run for 1,500+. But if he stays healthy there is no reason, he can't be over 1,000 yards in his rookie season. Those factors alone will improve the run game. Njoku and Fannon should form a nice tandem at tight end. Hopefully their presence will limit the double teams on Juedy.

The Browns offense in 2024 averaged 300 yards and 15 pts per game. 95 yards rushing and 206 yds passing. If this offense can garner 1 more td per game and get to 20 pts per game, a modest improvement. The run game improves to around 120 yards a game even if the passing game stays at 206 per game the improvement will be felt on the scoreboard and in turn will help the defense be in better situations. No one is trying to kid themselves this is not a Championship team in 2025/ Probably more of a 5-to-8-win team. But if one of the QB's has a Darnold come out of now where season who knows. The defense has potential to be very good, the run game should improve, QB play is the huge question mark on this team.

I can see a very conservative bal control offense. Alot of targets
To the TEs. But here's the catch. That puts so pressure on the defense
To be rock solid. Cause this offense isn't built to win shootouts
Or come from behind 2 TDs down. Was listening to Stefanski radio row
Tour this AM. He is calling plays yet again . That's a issue.
This is league driven by offense and explosive WRs and Andrew Berry
And Stefanski are thinking it's 1985 again
What have the Browns achieved under Stefanski running the offense
Since he's been here ??

I hate being a wet blanket, and I do understand where you're coming from in terms of your enthusiasm. I do think reverting back to the "Stefanski" offense will be a big benefit... but I don't think that's going to translate to the scoreboard. We'll look better (and that's an important first step), but there are too many weaknesses and questions on the offensive side of the roster, and our defense had a pretty disappointing season, overall, last year. Defenses with far less talent on paper are getting more done than we are on that side of the ball.

LOL, then we have to worry about RT

I feel like this year is going to be a "step forward" year, with the chance of catching lightning in a bottle with three out of the four QBs. Unless one of Pickett, Gabriel, or Sanders absolutely wows and beats out Flacco to start and/or comes in midseason and shows himself to be "the" guy, then I think we run a pretty conservative, rhythm-based offense focused on gelling the team and figuring out what good players we have. The whole time keeping in mind what we need to do to be aggressive in 2026.

I think we will revert back to the 2020 Stefanski-style offense. Two RB threats, two TE threats. Lots of 12 personnel with a fresh RB in the backfield. Stefanski has shown himself to be pass-happy lately, but I speculate it'll go back to setting up the zone stretch runs with play-action passes used to keep the defense honest.

As long as our offense doesn't go out and totally bomb like it did last year, hopefully the defense will be closer to 2023 form, and we can win some close games to end up somewhere around .500.

Oh, and hopefully Jacksonville's coach proves himself to be the goober that McAfee thinks he will be, and they win 0 games.

I'm somewhere in the middle. Nothing excites me about the QB position. If anything I believe Gabriel would add a scrambling option that's better than any of the others. That may help slow up the blitz. He has a lot more starting experience against top ranked NCAA teams and starting experience overall. And then there's the winning. But I have no idea how he will transition to the NFL game.

I think barring substantial injuries on the OL the shift back to the zone blocking scheme will be quite helpful. It's the exact same scheme they were so successful at in the past.

As far as having two rookie RB's, RB is one of the, if not the easiest positions to transition from college to the pros. You have an assignment and the just follow your blockers. Beyond that much of it is instinctual. That may be somewhat of an oversimplification but not by much.

I don't want anyone to take that the wrong way. I do not in any way see this O being some offensive juggernaut by any measure. But I do certainly see it as being improved over last season. I mean let's face it, that's a pretty low bar.

I think obviously the whole thing success or failure will rest
On the oline . The oline needs to play with much more physicality
This year. It got pushed around plenty last year.

I think our O will be better this year simply because we are going back to what we did back in 2023. We stunk last season because we completely changed everything around for DW and it was like trying to fit a square peg in round hole. We added 2 solid RB’s and aTE in the draft and signed some solid OL guys. If we get just decent QB ply we could be pretty good. Our D should be better too with additions we’ve made. I predicted 4-6 wins but if things click it might surprise.

They got pushed around because they abandoned the ZBS scheme which they had been so successful at. Homewood explained it quite well.

The Browns have very little room error this year .
The defense is worrisome . Losing JOK is huge . There is no one
On the roster that can replace his skillset.
And the Browns will get exposed at the second level .
This defense gave up explosive plays last year game after game.
If the offense cant sustain 14 play drives the defense will on tired
Legs by the 4th quarter .
I Just don't see any facets of this roster that makes me it
Think it's better than the other team. When you look at the AFC
North who can the Browns beat,? Pittsburgh maybe. But even their defense
Can keep them in games .
Right now I'm going with 3 wins . Stefanski has shown he is only as good as his
Roster allows him to be.