|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
1st this post is a general post, and not really aimed at or towards anyone particular.
I base this post on a Eotab what I saw thread, and the observations he made during the pre-game warm ups prior to the Jets game.
EO if I miss quote please correct me OK?
EO said that during warm ups he was shocked at how accurate DA was, I think his words were he threw every ball on target, and seemed to be really concentrating on his footwork.
Then they went to 7 on 7 drills and he wasn’t nearly as accurate then to 11 on 11 drills and his accuracy dropped further.
I found EO’s comments kind of eye opening because many claim that DA is just plain old inaccurate, and this observation seemed to fly in the face of that theory. Yes if you’re a great practice player, and can’t carry over your practice accuracy to the game then your just not going to cut it in the NFL. But the fact that he could make the throws accurately in practice does show that he is capable, but that he hasn’t been able to bring that accuracy to the football field on game day.
Why can’t he, and is that correctable, would be more the line I would take, if what EO saw is true. Sense EO is a BQ and cut DA loss guy. I thought his comments were pretty profound. Nobody made much comment about those remarks, but there they were.
I offer these thoughts or comments up for all to consider once again, more because nobody said anything about them at the time, and because I think that they are comments that give us all a glimpse into what the Browns coaching staff sees on a regular base. Perhaps it’s the reason, that the Browns have second thoughts about letting DA go, they know that he is capable, but hasn’t been able to translate his demonstrated accuracy from the practice field to game day, all the time. He hasn’t been able to get to that happy place during games, and perhaps it’s just a matter of time and patients on the parts of the coaching staff before he does. Maybe he can never get to that happy place, it’s just not in him. Perhaps it explains some of the reasons why DA seemed in most instances to come out of the gate slowly?
To a point DA has shown that at times he is very accurate during games The seem route he threw to KW2 in the Rams game was one of the best passes I have seen DA throw, it was on target, in stride, and on time.
At the end of the day I thought that I would put this out there for all too at least consider. I just thought (maybe wrongly) that what EO said was worth revisiting. Make what you want of it, I am certain you all will.
Again EO, correct anything you think I may have missed or left out, or didn’t convey correctly. If I could of I would have copied it, and posted it exactly as you wrote it. Remember I am doing this from memory so forgive me if I am off a bit. I believe I captured the heart of this portion of your what I saw thread.
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,963
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,963 |
Quote:
How will keeping both DA & BQ work out in the long run?
If I may, I'd like to offer my opinion on that..
I believe the answer is, WHO CARES? I don't see how having two quality QB's is EVER really a bad thing unless one of them is a crybaby or jerk. It appears that both of these guys have handled everything in a professional manner.
You can't forget the HC's involvement either. RAC has the type of demeanor that is steady and honest. I can't help but feel that if you have two quality young men, like BQ and DA appear to be, that he can't find a way to work out anything that comes along.
People are too worried about this aspect of the situation. I think too much is made of it and mostly because the Press and Media tell us to worry about it.
Having said that, I still don't see DA remaining with the team,, no matter what Savage said. I really believe in my heart that he is setting the stage to get the most from DA..
I do believe that if someone doesn't give up enough, that Savage and the Browns are prepared to make him a part of the organization for years to come.. and that's as it should be.
If I could sit down with BQ right now, I wonder what he'd tell me if I asked him if the hold out was worth it? I'm betting he'd say no. JMO however.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311 |
Quote:
Yes if you’re a great practice player, and can’t carry over your practice accuracy to the game then your just not going to cut it in the NFL. But the fact that he could make the throws accurately in practice does show that he is capable, but that he hasn’t been able to bring that accuracy to the football field on game day.
First of all, I don't feel that someone's observations of DA in one pre-game drill is an adequate barometer of his throwing accuracy, especially considering IT WAS A PRE-GAME DRILL!!! Look, DA couldn't even beat out Charlie Frye in training camp for the starting job. But somehow, when he was called upon to go in and take over, he did so admirably. Maybe it goes back to the fact that Savage pointed out in his presser... He had The Starter in front of him and The Savior right behind him. Once The Starter was traded and he was given the keys, he put the pedal to the metal knowing that if he messed up, Quinn was in. The thing that I really like about DA is that he is unflappable. You can't coach some of the attributes that he has. It even pisses me off sometimes because you'll see him throw an INT and then he'll be smiling or laughing about it over on the sideline. And I want to punch him in the face. But that's just the way he is and it really translates with the way he can manage the game and put everyone around him at ease. If he is gone, I will truly miss those things about him. With that said, I do question his accuracy and I don't think that just because he was accurate in a pre-game drill where there was no defense, no pressure, it can really be used to get an accurate measure of his ability. If anything, it looked like DA did better when he was a play away from losing his job. Then, as the season went on, the pressure was off and so were a lot of his throws. Hard to explain.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311 |
Quote:
If I could sit down with BQ right now, I wonder what he'd tell me if I asked him if the hold out was worth it? I'm betting he'd say no. JMO however.
Do you really think Quinn would have started over DA after Frye was traded if he hadn't held out? I honestly do not. I really don't think Quinn's hold out had as much of an impact on his playing time this season as a lot of people would like to think. It all worked out the way it did for a reason. RAC was just looking for a reason to sit Quinn for as long as he could and Quinn gave him the perfect one. But I really doubt that he would have stepped in for Charlie in that Pittsburgh game and DA would have stayed on the bench, regardless of what they did in camp. His hold out didn't affect anything. Just another one of my crazy opinions.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3 |
If our D had played as good in the first half of the season as they did the second half -- we would have been 11-5, and DA's picks wouldn't have stung as much. The problem of course is that he is prone to throwing them, and in spite of the great performance otherwise, he won't get us to the AFC Championship Game, much less a Super Bowl win. And of course, if they can't beat the Steelers and Bengals on the road ...
Speculation is interesting but doesn't accomplish much. My gut feeling though is that we'll see a lot of BQ in the preseason, and if I'm Anderson -- I don't throw any Interceptions. Some picks during preseason and a few in the first couple of games and I think they'll yank him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 192
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 192 |
Quote:
I care about 1 QB stat INTs
Quote:
I want to know if he can take lesser players at some positions and make htem better like a true Franchise QB can do........aka Brady, Manning, Favre, etc.
BigW, I found this interesting.
You first state the one statistic you deem the most noteworthy in evaluating a QB's performance is interceptions, and then later go on to name Farve as a "true franchise qb". To me, that appears to be a contradiction.
Here is a partial list of interceptions associated with QB's per the 2007 season:
- Jon Kitna 20
- Eli Manning 20
- Carson Palmer 20
- Derek Anderson 19
- Tony Romo 19
- Drew Brees 18
- Kurt Warner 17
- Vince Young 17
- Brett Farve 15
- Marc Bulger 15
web page
Personally, I see some similarities between DA and two quarterbacks in the league, one a veteran, the other an emerging quarterback: Brett Favre (as you noted) and Tony Romo.
All three quarterbacks have tremendous confidence in not only their throwing ability, but also in their receivers to make a play versus the surrounding defenders.
At times this confidence is a bit too much as noted by Vers leading to interceptions. It should be also noted, many times this confidence is what lead to the many touchdowns we have seen this season. There have been several throws in critical situations that were thrown into coverage and resulted in a big play.
Many folks praise Favre as a gun-slinger and his courage to make the impossible throws....why does DA not get this same support?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,267
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,267 |
Quote:
I asked for draft picks for a reason ... i like your theory but it will never happen ....
so can u give me what draft picls would be the minimum for u to make the trade and whar picks it would take for U to say ... STICK EM UP ...
and I am not trying to set u up for anything .. I wanna know cause I am curious ... I have said what it would take for me to do it .. and am curious to see what others who don't believe he is the wonder boy alot of folks make him out to be think it will take ...
You may not be "setting me up" for YOU, but I'll take grief over my response!
I'd take a late first/early second this year, with a third thrown in either this year or next.
I DO however feel my scenario is QUITE possible. There will be new coaches and systems implemented across the league. And in most cases, new regimes want "their guys". And there is most usually a HUGE player purge in those first couple of years.
So IMO, getting a current D veteran and a second rounder seems VERY plausible to me.
I am curious as to why you feel my original scenario would "never happen"? If a new coach comes in with a different defensive philosophy, he may see some big $$$ contracts on the roster who he may feel won't be worth paying the big bucks to simply because the new coach plans to implement a new scheme.
So I could certainly see a scenario where we could get a combination of a player and a pick. I feel all options will be explored and certainly feel as though this will be one of those legitimate options.
ie...... New coach has 3-4 D in place but is going to switch to the 4-3. There would be multiple players this new coach would wish to replace on D. Pretty much the exact opposite of what happenned here when the Savage regime took over.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
I see absolutely no similarities between DA and Romo….none
Favre, yeah sure, they are both gunslingers and it is debatable whether that is a good thing or not.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Afterthought was not a good a word in the context I used it. But it sounds like you listened to the presser. Did you notice how fast he sped by BQ's name? It almost sounded to me like he was talking about a buy named Brady Eric Wright.
The reason I didn't even think about it was the way he described DA's situation..
He said concerning how DA came into the season.."He had the INCUMBANT in front of him and the SAVIOR in back.."...
Savior...THINK ABOUT THAT...thats a huge word to use for a guy that some think won't be competing for that starter spot..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 126
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 126 |
To me there is one IMPORTANT Stat nobody is talking about here, and that is can your QB lead you and win in big games,and so far the answer is NO.
I look at two big road games Arizona and the Bungals and he looked very bad in both.Was it his fault we lost the Ariz. game ??not really but he was a big contributor.Was it his fault we lost the Bungals game ??I would have to say yes.
The interception Stat can be a little decieving it really matters WHEN you throw them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,267
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,267 |
Quote:
See this is where I get very very confused..
We often hear about this QB Guru or that QB Guru who was able to turn this QB into a winner or that QB into a winner...
Yet, there are comments like this that make me think that you don't believe that mindsets and thinking can be improved...
So is this really an indictment of DA,, or Rip Schere (sp)
DA was a sixth round draft pick for a reason. Unless he has Rip Shere's genes flowing through his viens, you can't blame Rip for DA's limitations. Which are BTW, the reason he was drafted in round 6.
Yes, on a VERY RARE occasion, you'll see a Tom Brady slip through the cracks. But sit back, think, and consider the odds of that. Possible? Yes. Logical? Not IMO
As you so accurately put it, DA has had "multiple OC's and QB coaches". So under your scenario, it would be a rip on EVERY NFL COACH who has TRIED to teach DA basic fundamentals. So either ALL those coaches suck, or DA "just ain't gettin' it".
Quote:
Are you saying, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" ?
And yes, you CAN "teach an old dog new tricks".
But here's what's FAR more difficult. If an old dog has spendt his entire life doing things one way, you're NOT "teaching an old dog new tricks".
You're trying to break the life long habits of that dog and RETRAIN him. MUCH more difficult.............
Quote:
Hey, you may be right in the end. DA may be what he is and may never be more that than.. I don't know for sure.. (neither do you either)
But at 24 years old, with the other intangibles he has shown, I'll keep an open mind about it.
While you're "keeping an open mind", please remember that multiple coaches have tried every way possible to break these bad habits and "retrain" DA all along. And through all of that, he still has major, yet basic shortcomings. His accuracy and touch have never really changed.
And I'm QUITE SURE EVERY coach he's had since high school has TRIED to address these very same issues.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
The part that gets me is that they weren’t just good plays by the defenders. He threw right at them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3 |
 When the Packers were struggling, Favre was taking the same kind of heat that you guys are dishing out to DA now. When they started playing "good" again, the fact that he was still throwing into double and triple coverage and throwing a pick or two a game didn't matter anymore.
Last edited by CBF; 01/11/08 10:34 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
I only brought up the drops because someone like Attack will post DA's QB rating against the Bills as proof as to how much he stunk. LOL
Talk about agenda..U obviously have one..and a serious one..Show me where I posted stats JUST on the Bills snowball game to prove a point...U can't and never will..go dig up my post..the stats are from THE BYE WEEK to the end of the season... U asked someone to post stats showing our last 4 opposing QB's ratings.. I don't think they ever responded...did they? I didn't feel like going that indepth so I posted DA's ratings for the last part of the season and also showed the areas he had problems in.. The block clearly shows his completition %'s and QB rating in each game.. Did I ever even single out the Bills game? Was any game singled out? WHAT ...U wanted me to put a asterick on that game so we could overlook it?  I never made any bad comments on him about completing passes in that mess on any posts showing his stats so find something else to get offended about..  The stats also showed how inconsistant he is completing passes in the short areas..U seem to be annoyed by that...or am I suppose to ignore it? I'm not..it proves where he is inconsistant in ..and that short area is very huge when thats ALL you have open to you on a given play... Ever see me say I hate him or dislike him? Ever see me say I hope they trade his butt outta here after he took over after the first game ? I was very harsh but still on the money about him waaaay back in training camp when I debated Pit about the whole QB stuff... And this crap about taking the deep pass away is just that.......crap. If teams scheme to take away the deep pass, then they are opening up the running game Why is it crap? U keep denying that..have you ever answered WHY we weren't going to the deep routes after the bye week? Diam did ask you that on another thread .. U honestly think Chud just went away from going downfield intentionally after it was successful early on? It's obvious to me his numbers went down because he was forced to go to the areas he has problems completing [passes in.. If you take the long routes away it STILL leaves the underneath stuff open..and he couldn't hit those consistantly..and yes there were drops too.. So I guess when Phil mentioned how they were being schemed in his presser it was crap too? Until you can show otherwise maybe your denial is crap too
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 01/11/08 12:28 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
As usual some people dismiss things they don't understand or more likely doesn't fit with their observations. But I'll try to give you a bit of background.
When the Browns where going threw OTA's this past pre season it was reported that DA had put himself in position to become the starter. That was based on practice, and oft times that is in fact the determining factor in the status of all players going into the season. DA at that point was listed at #1, and CF was at #2. Then came the actual preseason and it appeared that DA just wasn't the same player as he was during OTA's. He clearly was outplayed on the game day field by CF.
But due to the poor play that CF exibited in the opener, the Browns decided that CF wasn't going to be the guy. They traded CF away and cleared the deck for DA to be the starter. As PS said from then on DA put the peddle to the medal. I think this did a lot of good for DA mentally and it unlocked some of his potientail. No more looking back and seeing CF helped him mentally I think. He became more relaxed, and began to perform pretty well IMO. He also began to build confidence.
Again their have been many great practice players that just stunk it up come game day. I don't down play that part, honest I don't. But then again DA did make some great throws thru the course of the season. And like I think Vers said, there truly was at least a balance between great throws and great catches, when you factor in dropped balls that were thrown correctly. So dismissing the entire idea without thought or consideration is short sighted IMHO. Dismissing it and failing to see that he did in fact have times when he was very accurate. I think the term here has been inconsistantly accurate. That is a true-ism, IMHO.
But you fail to go beyond the fact that he did indeed show flashes of accuracy, and try to explain or understand why. Yup, chitty footwork, happy feet, and a laundry list of other reasons. But I think it has more to do with not being in his comfort zone, or trying to hard. It's like a pro golfer that consistantly makes 3 foot putts when practicing, but can't sink a 3 footer to save his life during a round. Then again when he shouldn't make the putt say a 10 foot plus putt he sinks them all. It just doesn't make sense, if a guy can do one he should be able to do the other, or at least I think so.
Take a look at the stats that AD keeps posting about DA's completion stats, and does it even occure to you that perhaps it should be easy for a guy of DA's ability to make a short dump off pass? Is it the pressure of the moment, and knowing he should be able to do it with ease, that keep DA from reaching that next level? I think it is, and given that he has the skill set to complete those passes why doesn't he? It goes way beyond the inaccuracy debate that litters these boards, and onto DA mentally not being able to overcome a mental block. Now if your a coach, your doing all you can to unlock that door, because if you can, you have one hell of a QB, on your hands. The skill and ability are there I think it's unlocking it. Perhaps through coaching, and playing time DA can become more mentally tuff. I know this there were times last year that I just couldn't believe how good he was. Can he ever get mentally tuff enough to achieve his potiential. And make no mistake he does have potiential, unlocking it is the million dollar question??????
You failed to even consider the idea in your post...
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
Quote:
When the Packers were struggling, Favre was taking the same kind of heat that you guys are dishing out to DA now. When they started playing "good" again, the fact that he was still throwing into double and triple coverage and throwing a pick or two a game didn't matter anymore.
While I am inclined to agree I have to say that Brett Favre does not nearly have the weapons on offense that we do.
Driver is no Braylon.
Grant is no Lewis
Franks and Lee put together are no KW2.
Jennings over Joe J might be the only upgrade….maybe
So comparing the two just isn’t right.
If Brett had these weapons they would be talking super bowl or bust in Green Bay.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
When the Browns where going threw OTA's this past pre season it was reported that DA had put himself in position to become the starter. That was based on practice, and oft times that is in fact the determining factor in the status of all players going into the season. DA at that point was listed at #1, and CF was at #2. Then came the actual preseason and it appeared that DA just wasn't the same player as he was during OTA's. He clearly was outplayed on the game day field by CF.
I may have recalled the media listing DA as # 1 but I never heard Rac say it..he ALWAYS maintained that Frye had a leg up on DA..
I read where the coaches wanted DA to beat Frye out..heck even Phil said it after they traded him...he said if it had happened then in TC they would have delt him to Seattle early...but it didn't..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
I think I said correctly, " IT WAS REPORTED", that would be thru the media, if it was reported. I did not attempt to attribute the statement to RAC.
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Wasn't trying to discredit you..I was thinking out loud..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311 |
So, in your mind, it's not a question of accuracy or how he practices vs. how he plays in a game. It's merely DA not being mentally tough enough to make short throws? GMAB man. Why would I consider this in my post when I think it's completely ridiculous? It doesn't even have to do with your first post that I responded to. You were talking about how he looked in one pre-game warm-up. You never discussed mini-camp and OTAs and you never once mentioned that this might be a mental block until now. If that's what you were thinking all along, then why didn't you mention it? Or do you really expect people to think exactly like you? Well, I don't. My opinion vs. yours. Give me proof that Da is experiencing a mental block? You can't. How can you prove something like that? All you can do is point to stats and say this MIGHT be what's happening. But the bottom line is that he had trouble making those throws. To me, it's more a question of physical ability than mental capacity. He gets excited and throws into the ground, or behind the receiver. Or he throws it so damn hard that it cannot be caught. some balls flew over the receivers heads and some were just nowhere near the receiver and they were intercepted by the other team. This was all due to a mental block? C'mon. But let's say for a moment that your theory holds water, how does DA overcome such a thing? He has the ability all day long, but just can't overcome his mental block. How can such a thing be fixed in an off-season. It can't. Because you claim he can do it in practice but just not in a game. So Game 1 next season, despite all the progress DA seems to have made in the off-season, he'll go right back to throwing into the dirt on short routes because it's a game situation and his mental block kicked in? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 750
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 750 |
If competing with Frye held Anderson back, what is going to happen to his play if he is still on the roster when TC opens?
Go Irish!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
The only part is that you lack any thought process that doesn't fit your observation. Again you look at only what you see, and fail to go beyond or consider any other POV. I think I said in my original post that I wanted to put it out there for people to consider and you come back with nothing but one insult after another. If you want to not consider it, or that you have considered it and dismiss it, why the insults? It hardly speaks to you as a person let alone as a person whom looks past their own nose.  I left parts out to create at least some seperation and to allow for other trains of thought other then my own. I actually put it out there to add to the debate another elimate that had to this point in the debate never been broached. Sorry for bringing something new to the table, and sorry for thinking beyond what has already been beatin to death, and mostly sorry I didn't clear the whole idea with you prior to making my post.  Brown to the Bone
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Quote:
There are a few things I disagree with,
now theres a suprise .. *L* ..
Quote:
It's just that I happen to think that wins, points scored, 3rd down conversion rate, yds. per attempt, and TD to Interception ratio are way more important.
All the above are important ... no doubt ..... lets break them down ..
Int's/Comp% - QB has a great amount of DIRECT control over these .. well at least this year in C-Town DA did ... i think u would agree with all of the following ... but if not I am sure U will let me know .. *L*
he recieved VERY LITTLE pressure at all this year ... less than at least 90% of ALL the other QB's in the league ....
he had as good a recieving duo in Brey and KW as thier was in the league .. these guys take a back seat to no one ..
I do not recall one pass bouncing off our guys hands and into the D's for a pick .. I di recall at least 3 or 4 passes where they bounced off the D's hands and into our guys hands for catches ..
we will adress the drops later ...
the schedule was very conducive for our entire team to play well .. this includes but is not exclusive to DA ....
given all those variables BEING VERY VERY FAVORABLE he was pretty much DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the high amount of picks and the LOW COMPLETION% (like I said i'll adress the drops later) ..
Quote:
wins, points scored, 3rd down conversion rate, yds. per attempt, and TD to Interception ratio are way more important.
1. I wouldn't say there way more important .. but thats really neither here nor there ..
All of the above DA was aided GREATLY by the talent around him and the ease of schedule we played ...
the one where he was the most responsible was the 3rd down conversions .. his MAIN STRENGTH is his ARM STRENGTH ... and that coupled with his ability to get rid of the ball quickly (good most of the time but BAD way more than it should have been) were a BIG PART in our 3rd down conversion rate going up ..
U know I don't look at stats unless its to rip someone else .. so without looking at them I would guess the majority of where the 3rd down rate went up ON PASSES (cause 3rd down conversion rate going up could ahve been a function of us having more 3rd and 1's ... ) is in the 3rd and 6 - 8 or above category ... cause i bet the 3rd and less than 6 - 8 on PASSES either went down or stood about the same ... as that is not his strength ..
I'll give him credit there ... the rest he DESERVES some credit .. but not near as much as U and the other guys in his corner (thats what your arguing and I am not going to explain it everytime .. suffice it to say I know U havent declared yet .. *L*) ... are giving him .... and U are also just glossing over the negative IMO ..
Quote:
That's cool. I will say that DA did lay a stinker against the Bengals. And it was at a bad time. I can't really defend him there, other than to say why in the hell did we throw so much in that wind? We should have ran it down their throats and mixed some passes in. But, they decided to throw and DA stunk.
He had a bad game where all his faults came to the forefront .. he was not solely responsible for the loss as many have contended .. and he was not responsible for us not making the playoffs ... as many on my side of the fence have contended ..
good thing U didnt defend him .. kinda indefensible .. *L* .. biut again .. he took way to much blame for that game and for us not getting in the playoffs ..
Quote:
Well...........figuring him out should lead to them winning. Yet we were 7 and 3.
so winning in the NFL is as easy as figuring the QB out??? who knew .. *L* ..
your making it way to simple ... U know it and I know it ... so i will just let it go and put this one in the same category as DA having a bad game and just chalk it up to U can/t be right all the time .. *L* ..
Quote:
All I'm saying is that it needs to be considered instead of just saying teams shut DA down. It's what our offense does that counts. And it's about wins. I also can't figure out why people would have a problem w/us running it late in the season. Bro, it is just the misuse of stats.
I can sum that PARTIALLY up by the use of 4 words ...
STATS ARE FOR LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!
and U know I came up with that saying because of how they were used .... and this is a decent example .. cause guys are taking a stat or two and drawing conclusions based on those stats .... MY TAKE ...
the conclusions the dolts on my side of the fence are drawing our GOOD CONCLUSIONS ...
I do believe that if U WERE A DC in the NFL U would take away the intermieadate to long throws from DA .. why wouldn't u??? thiose are his best throws and if u make him dink and dunk two things can happen ...
1. it will take more plays for us to move down the field witch in turn makes him
2. throw more passes giving u a much better chance for a pick ... i know that is boiling it down to the bare essance and making it too simple in my explanation ..
but U know its true bro .. take away his bog play ability and the scales tip in your favor ... and u know it ..
now when u do that U are obviously going to have less guys in the box and open up are running game ... and that happend ... where the dolts problem lies is that they want to dis him for the negative part of the DC's figuring him out and not give him any credit for what it helped to open up ...
and IMO .. we can have the best of both worlds .. so why not go with that option??? 
and BRO .. that HURT ... I should not only be a BRAT ... i should be the KING OF THE BRATS ..... I will wear that moniker with pride ... and i look forward to the day u become on .. and in all sincerity .. U will become one once he gets his chance ... 
Quote:
Hey, an honest hater. *L* Do you remember who said that to whom a long time ago?
*LOL* ... so how is it on that side of the fence?????
Quote:
Great catches vs. drops. Not even close? Sorry, I disagree. Note, that I am not discounting the great play by some of receivers........I am only comparing great catches [catches they should not be expected to make] vs. drops. And in my mind it isn't close. Only the opposite of what you believe.
U forgot one part of what i said ....and its HUGE ... i said ... COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE QB'S IN THE NFL when it cam to the great catches part ...
purely #'s wise I am sure their were more great throwns that great catches .. as there were on EVERY OTHER TEAM IN THE NFL ... its a function of the proccess ..
there is no doubt in my mind our WR's had the opportunity to make more GREAT CATCHES than the WR's on other teams cause DA gave them more opportunities by missing throws ... and Brey and KW are VERY VERY ACROBATIC and made MORE GREAT CATCHES than more than likely any other tandem in the league ..
and conversly DA did not have more balls dropped than the other QB's around the league .. he had his fair share as Brey went in two drop streaks ... for the first 4 or 5 games he dropped maybe one or two balls total .. then he went in a drop funk for 3 games or so where he was dropping 2 or 3 a game .. then he went back to being real good for 3 or 4 games .. then he went back to being sporadically bad the last couple ....
at the end of the day bro ... our ASSesment of DA is prolly 90 - 95% the same .. where e get in trouble is that other 5 - 10% ... *L* ..
your opinion of DA is prolly alot closer to mine than 90% of the people on your side of the fence ... just like my opinion of DA is prolly alot closer to yours than 90% of the people on my side of the argument ...
so how we disagree as much as we do is mind boggling to me .. *LOL* ....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,803
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,803 |
Quote:
U asked someone to post stats showing our last 4 opposing QB's ratings..
I don't think they ever responded...did they?
Clemens 24 41 58.5 286 7.0 0 2 4 18 59.6 60.9 QB rate for the year
Trent Edwards13 33 39.4 124 3.8 0 0 0 0 50.6 70.4 QB rate for the year
Carson Palmer 11 21 52.4 115 5.5 1 2 0 0 44.8 86.7 QB rate for the year
Chris Weinke 13 22 59.1 104 4.7 1 0 5 31 86.2 only game
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Was that was he wanted ?
Or was it something else?
Was it the QB rating against the Browns?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,803
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,803 |
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311 |
Quote:
The only part is that you lack any thought process that doesn't fit your observation.
Actually, if you search around and read some of my most recent posts in various threads, you'll find that I tend to agree with a lot of the observations and points made by the other members of the pound. And I also have a lot of my own thoughts and opinions on different matters. But I don't whine when people don't happen to think the way I do.
Quote:
Again you look at only what you see, and fail to go beyond or consider any other POV. I think I said in my original post that I wanted to put it out there for people to consider and you come back with nothing but one insult after another. If you want to not consider it, or that you have considered it and dismiss it, why the insults?
I did consider your POV and I disagreed with it. Then I told you why I disagreed with it. Where are these insults you speak of? How did I insult you?
Quote:
It hardly speaks to you as a person let alone as a person whom looks past their own nose.
You don't know anything about me so if you want to judge me solely on one response to you in this message board than so be it. But I hardly think it speaks to me as a person. Frankly, I don't care what you think of me as a person. But that doesn't mean I'm not willing to agree to disagree with you. I'm really quite friendly.
Quote:
I left parts out to create at least some seperation and to allow for other trains of thought other then my own.
Good. And I showed you my train of thought. Just because it isn't riding down the same track that yours is, doesn't mean it shouldn't also be discussed. And if you're "allowing" for other trains of thought, then why get all upset when I counter yours and bring my own? You're only "allowing" trains of thought that match up with yours. 
Quote:
I actually put it out there to add to the debate another elimate that had to this point in the debate never been broached.
I didn't understand what you were attempting to say here.
Quote:
Sorry for bringing something new to the table, and sorry for thinking beyond what has already been beatin to death, and mostly sorry I didn't clear the whole idea with you prior to making my post.
You don't have to clear anything with me and you know that. Nor should you apologize for anything. I'm glad you brought something new to the table, but I don't agree with it and I told you why. Sorry for not clearing that with you. LOL!! Do you see how ridiculous this is?
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Interesting article on the DA/BQ
wonderings of next year
|
|
