DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quarterback height

Key word being minimal. I'm not trying to indicate they upgraded the QB position after they moved on from them. The facts are simply that Hoyer nor Anderson were anything close to legitimate NFL starting QB's and hanging on to them any longer would have been pointless. It would have served no purpose.

Since the return the best QB play the Browns have had is as follows

Baker Mayfield - 2018 thru 2021
Tim Couch 1999-2004
Derek Anderson 2006 - 2009
Joe Flacco - 2023 and hopefully 2025???
Kelly Holcomb 2004-2005
Brian Hoyer 2013 - 2014

All I am saying is stay with the best you have until you can find better. Cutting the best QB and hoping for the best results in Deshon Kizer, Cody Kessler, and Kevin Hogan. It is sad but that is the reality.

The reality is none of those who were cut were ever nor did they ever become quality starting NFL QB's. If you think continuing to hang onto them made sense then more power to you.

How do you qualify "best QB play" exactly? Hoyer did pretty good for a short time. Until opposing D's figured him out. Than it was over.

I agree with you in terms of Mayfield. But that was never a part of what we're talking about here. And the Browns had a terrible OL in front of Couch which led to him shredding his elbow. After that however he was done.

You argue just for the sake of arguing!!! I am not saying any were great QBs. I am just saying until you find better hold on to what you have.

Nobody is "arguing just to argue". That's something you made up in your brain. Once you know that a QB is never going to be a legitimate starter there's no reason to prolong that experiment. It's time for a different experiment.

What was it that triggered you? This?


Or was it this?...........


By the times Browns let them both go, both were done.

I mean if you wish to have a discussion on the topic that's just fine. But if you say things you simply can't back up? Don't blame me for it.

With that list of best QB play or simply best QB since 1999, i wonder if everyone would agree Mayfield is at the top of the list? Probably stick in the craw for some to admit that, but not sure how you argue differently. You can argue the bar is very low, but that doesn't change the way the list looks.

I'd put Mayfield at the top as well (Anderson that one year, Couch, Hoyer were decent)

But I also know that things deteriorated here for Baker (for whatever reason) and he was regressing

It would be impossible to put up a legitimate argument to the contrary. By any litmus test one could come up with he has been hands down the best QB the Browns have had since their return.

His last year here he was playing injured. For anyone that tries to dismiss that or claims it was a natural regression, look at what he has done since. Yes I know it's in a bad division but that can't simply erase his play. He is the only Browns starting QB since the return to go on and have any real success in the NFL after leaving the Browns.

I'm not sure if being shipped out by the Browns was a wake up call for him that made him a better QB. I think that would be hard to say for sure one way or the other. But whatever the case may be I'm happy to see he has done well. I'll root for him to do well in every game he plays unless he is playing against the Browns.

Spot on!

I firmly believe that if Berry and Stefanski had been a little bit more decisive directly after the injury and let him heal, and then later a bit more patient, then things could have ended more peacefully and positive for all parties.

From what Baker has said I think in hindsight he agrees with you and so do I.....

CLEVELAND, Ohio (WOIO) - Baker Mayfield admits now that he played through injury in Cleveland and his performance at the time suffered.

Mayfield, appearing on the “Pardon my Take” podcast, said he wishes he had opted for surgery sooner instead of trying to tough it out.

The first overall pick in 2018, Mayfield led the Browns to a playoff win in 2020 but struggled in 2021, throwing 13 interceptions in 14 games.

https://www.cleveland19.com/2024/07/16/baker-mayfield-admits-he-played-hurt-cleveland-browns/

It's very hard for a young athlete who is dedicated to his craft to admit he isn't able to perform. Nothing means more to them than being on that field. That's why it's up to the coaching staff to do what's right for both the team and the injured player. Keeping Mayfield out there playing was not the right decision for either one.

Mayfield certainly had his faults, but I think all chances for a peaceful and positive solution went up in smoke when Stefanski let his injured franchise QB get brutalized with 9 sacks (4 by Watt) and 5 pressures with inept tackle play and failing to use their #3 run offense against Pittsburgh's last rated rush defense. Chubb who had 1,201 yards and eight touchdowns despite missing three games, only had four carries for 35 yards in the first half. Cleveland rushed for 219 yards the previous week against the Packers. The Steelers entered allowing an average of 175 yards on the ground in their previous eight games, including 198 yards rushing or more four times during that span, yet the Browns RB's only rushed the ball 18 times for 77 yds.

Seriously, you need to let the Baker Mayfield thing go.

Trust me! I went through the Belichick firing Bernie Kosar era. To see Vinny Testic...ERRR...Testaverde start was not ideal. That too did not pan out as expected.

The Browns were only trying to make it better. It's easy to point fingers when it doesn't work.

If the Watson experience becomes successful, Baker Mayfield would have become a non-story.

The whole "Berry (or Haslam, depending on how you want to view it) is an idiot for letting Baker go" needs to be thought out. Watson's stats were superior to Mayfield's. I'll say the odds were much more favorable than Testaverde.

In the end, I felt sorry for Testaverde. His football career was not a great experience. For the simple fact, he replaced a Browns legend by default.

When you're playing from behind, you run less. When the QB is throwing worm burners and/or airmailing it on 2nd down, it leaves you behind the chains on third down, and then you are obliged to throw more often than not.

Playcalling doesn't happen in a vacuum.

Baker wanted to throw. He wanted it in his hands. Trying to lay it all off on Stefanski now is lame, especially when Baker liked to audible.

From, how I remembered it, the center or guard got hurt in a blowout game against Pittsburgh

After that our run game crumbled and so did the offense. We were something like 7-4 when that injury happened

I think we lost every game after that


Homer wasn’t that good but he could effectively run Shanahans offense. But not without that guard or center who went down

[quote=Bull_Dawg]

Agreed. But Baker never should have been there in the first place. Stefanski should have called it a season

He got injured, and then after the JJ Watt hit it became clear that he wasn’t helping

It was stefanskis job to protect him from himself and pull him

Let go of trading three firsts and two seconds with a 5 year 250 million dollar guaranteed contract while selling your soul in the process by bringing in a pervert with all sorts of sexual accusations?

Personally I’ll never let that go. I went through 0-16. A few 1-15. 2-14. But that trade made me leave the team until it was pretty much assured that guy wouldn’t line up as my team’s QB again.

I loved Baker, but I understood if we couldn’t continue with him. I could never understand the Watson acquisition though. That one hurt. Infuriating. I watch this team with my family. Did not want any part of Watson. No part at all

I wasn't really debating that. But his effectively saying Stefanski giving Baker what he wanted irreparably harmed the relationship seemed a complete fabrication.

As far as the should he or shouldn't he have played, I think part of the issue is that Baker played better in practice when he knew he couldn't be hit. If the Doctors cleared him and he wanted to play, it's not easy to just shut him down anyway, particularly with Baker's personality and the different dynamic in the NFL with regards to player-coach power and where the money is.

Tom Brady was playing with a torn MCL and a separated shoulder at various points in his career. QB is a different animal. Especially with those built that way. Some guys aren't coming off unless they're carried off. I think the worry that shutting him down would harm the relationship was a factor. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

10 WORST PLAYER TRADES IN NFL HISTORY:

Cleveland Browns
Deshaun Watson - 2022
Everyone is familiar with this disaster and knew it was coming. This wasn't just the Cleveland Browns' worst trade of the last decade, it might just be the worst trade in NFL history.
The Browns agreed to acquire Deshaun Watson from the Houston Texans in 2022, even though he faced 23 lawsuits from women accusing him of sexual assault or misconduct. For the three-time Pro Bowler and a 2024 sixth-round pick, Cleveland coughed up first-round picks in 2022, 2023 and 2024, plus a 2022 fourth-round pick, a 2023 third-round pick and a 2024 fourth-round pick.
Cleveland then signed Watson to a fully guaranteed five-year, $230 million contract. This trade has been so bad that franchise owner Jimmy Haslam has done something NFL owners almost never do: He admitted a mistake. "We took a big swing and miss with Deshaun," he said, per Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com.
Unfortunately for Browns fans, the pain of this trade goes beyond the price and the poor results. To make room for Watson, Cleveland dealt quarterback Baker Mayfield, who has since become a two-time Pro Bowler with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Denver Broncos
Russell Wilson - 2022
The Broncos thought they found their quarterback of the future in Wilson, and outbid every interested team for the Super Bowl-winning veteran. In 2022, the Broncos sent the Seahawks a 2022 first-round pick, a 2022 second-round pick, a 2022 fifth-round pick, a 2023 first-round pick, a 2023 second-round pick, plus tight end Noah Fant, defensive lineman Shelby Harris and quarterback Drew Lock in exchange for Wilson and a 2022 fourth-round pick. Before he played a single snap, the Broncos gave Wilson a $245 million multiyear extension that was supposed to carry him through 2028. However, he will officially be released before the start of the 2024 season.

San Franciso 49ers
Trey Lance Trade - 2021.
The San Francisco 49ers traded a significant number of draft picks, including three future first-round selections, to move up and draft quarterback Trey Lance with the third overall pick in 2021. Lance struggled with injuries and performance and was ultimately traded to the Cowboys in 2023.

New Orleans Saints
Ricky Williams - 1999
The New Orleans Saints traded their entire 1999 draft (and more) to move up and select Ricky Williams, a running back. This trade is often cited as one of the worst because it severely depleted the Saints' future draft capital.

San Diego Chargers
Ryan Leaf - 1998.
The San Diego Chargers traded up to draft Ryan Leaf with the second overall pick in the 1998 draft, hoping he would be their franchise quarterback. However, Leaf's career was a major disappointment, and the Chargers missed out on other promising players.

Atlanta Falcons
Brett Farve - 1992
Favre was selected by the Falcons in the second round of the 1991 NFL Draft, and attempted four passes for 0 yards, 0 touchdowns and two interceptions in his rookie season. There was clearly some disfunction with the Falcons, so the Packers approached them and sent a first-round pick in exchange for Favre. A first-round pick for a quarterback yet to complete a pass to the correct team that failed a physical after the trade seemed pretty ridiculous compensation. But it wasn't, as Favre went on to win three MVPs, Super Bowl XXXI and lead the NFL in passing touchdowns four different times. Maybe the Falcons should have had a little more patience with their gunslinger from Southern Mississippi.

Minnesota Vikings
Herschel Walker - 1989
The Cowboys traded running back Herschel Walker to the Vikings in a massive deal involving multiple players and draft picks. While the Cowboys used these assets to build a dynasty that won three Super Bowls in the 1990s, the Vikings did not achieve similar success.

[b]Baltimore Colts
John Elway - 1983[/b].
After being drafted by the Colts, John Elway refused to play for them, leading to a trade with the Broncos. The Broncos would go on to win two Super Bowls with Elway, while the Colts struggled during his career.

Houston Oilers
Steve Largent - 1976
The Tulsa product was selected by the Oilers in the fourth round of the 1976 NFL Draft, but Largent apparently did nothing to stand out to Bum Phillips in the preseason. Houston shipped its brand new fourth-round pick to Seattle in exchange for a lowly eighth-round pick, with the Oilers quickly punting on their mid-round investment. Well, that was a mistake, because Largent went on to have an incredible playing career. Largent led the league in receiving yards twice, was a five-time All-Pro and seven time Pro Bowler. When he retired after 14 successful seasons, Largent held NFL records for most receptions (819), most consecutive games with a reception (177), most receiving yards (13,089), most receiving touchdowns (100), most seasons with 50 or more receptions (10) and most seasons with 1,000 receiving yards (8), per the Pro Football Hall of Fame, where he was honored in 1995. The 5-foot-11, 187-pound pass-catcher was probably worth more than an eighth-round pick.

Green Bay Packers
John Hadl - 1974
After a 15-4 stint as the starter for the Rams, the Packers traded for Hadl in the middle of the 1974 season, sending L.A. first and second round picks in 1975 and 1976, plus a third-rounder in 1975. This was a 34-year-old quarterback by the way. Hadl played just 22 games for Green Bay, going 7-12 as the starter. He threw just nine touchdowns compared to 29 interceptions during his time with the Packers, and ended up finishing his career with the Oilers. If this wasn't bad enough, the Packers were actually looking at Archie Manning before landing Hadl.

I'd agree with that. I just wish that Stefanski was able to sit the guy down and explain to him that playing through this injury wasn't working, and that they had long-term plans for him or something.

Just some way to get through to the guy that they'd be better with him getting surgery and Case Keenum finishing out the year

I wouldn't pay much attention to the naysayers. As I posted above, even Baker agrees he should have sat out and got the surgery earlier.

Too bad he didn't. We could have been much farther ahead than where we are now. Those 3 1st rounders would probably have made a huge difference.

I'm not sure either way. For all I know they may have decided to move on to watson once he became available either way. I don't think we'll ever know the answer to that one.

Height matter when it comes to QBs. It used to be that at 6'2 you could do pretty well but offensive lineman and defensive lineman continue to get taller and taller. In my opinion a QB should be 6'4 at least these days or else they will force the offense to run blind zone pass plays. This is where a QB throws to a spot and hopes the WR gets there first because they literally can't see where they are throwing to. When the QB is short it forces the offensive line to create larger gaps to create throwing lanes for the QB to see out of to make their throws. IF you can't see the defense then you can't READ the defense. I am dead set against drafting any short QB. With both Dillon and Sanders as QBs we will need to draft shorter centers and guards and I don't like that. This is why I feel they were both drafted to be backup QBs and if they become starters that is just gravy.

I am not saying it's impossible for shorter QBs to succeed. I am just saying it takes a LOT more for them to have success and teams have to really build around them correctly for them to succeed. I'd rather just draft a taller QB who will have an easier time. I view Dillon's height though as a deal breaker and a wasted pick. I would have much rather taken an offensive lineman at that pick.

Maybe the browns will see this thread and fix the heighth issue by signing an oline comprised of wee people. Smh. Give the kid a chance.