DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus RFK - and RotaTeq and where we are with Health in the USA

Given the recent firing of the CDC Director Susan Monarez - I figured I would share a recent podcast I listened to about RFK and how/why he does not believe in modern science.

Anyone paying attention might remember I have posted/recommended Malcom Gladwell and Revisionist History podcasts before - this one is a link on Youtube but you can grab it on any podcast app... there is a part 2 but I have not listened to that yet.

Essentially RFK (And Woody Harleson and obviously some others) - don't believe in modern, observable, fact based science. It's a very easy 33 minute listen.

I posted this in a different thread but since you started this one it seems much more appropriate here..............

White House fires CDC director Monarez after she refuses to resign; 4 top health officials quit

The White House on Wednesday said it had fired Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Susan Monarez after she refused to resign. Four other top CDC officials announced they were quitting the embattled health agency.

The leadership crisis at CDC erupted the same day the Food and Drug Administration announced new limits on who can get the latest approved round of Covid vaccines in the U.S.

“Susan Monarez is not aligned with the President’s agenda of Making America Healthy Again,” White House Spokesman Kush Desai said in a statement to NBC News. “Since Susan Monarez refused to resign despite informing [Health and Human Services Department] leadership of her intent to do so, the White House has terminated Monarez from her position with the CDC.”

The statement comes hours after attorney Mark Zaid said he was representing Monarez and that she had not actually been fired yet or stepped down, adding that she would not resign.

“When CDC Director Susan Monarez refused to rubber-stamp unscientific, reckless directives and fire dedicated health experts, she chose protecting the public over serving a political agenda,” Zaid said in a statement. “For that, she has been targeted.”

Earlier on Wednesday, HHS said in a post on X that “Monarez is no longer director” of the agency.

Monarez, a longtime federal government scientist, was sworn in on July 31. She is the first CDC director to be confirmed by the Senate following a new law passed during the pandemic that required lawmakers to approve nominees for the role.

The Washington Post first reported her ousting on Wednesday.

At least four other officials also submitted their resignations on Wednesday in a massive shakeup at the agency: Dr. Debra Houry, the CDC’s chief medical officer; Dr. Demetre Daskalakis, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases; Dr. Daniel Jernigan, the director of the National Center for Emerging and Zoonotic Infectious Diseases; and Dr. Jennifer Layden, director of the Office of Public Health Data, Surveillance and Technology.

Houry, in a resignation letter obtained by NBC News, wrote about the dangers of the spread of vaccine misinformation and said proposed budget cuts and reorganization plans would negatively impact the CDC’s ability to address conditions like hypertension, diabetes, cancer, overdoses and mental health issues.

In his resignation letter, also obtained by NBC News, Daskalakis said he was leaving the agency “because of the ongoing weaponizing of public health.”

Her departure comes at a tumultuous time for the agency, which is reeling from a gunman’s attack on its Atlanta headquarters on Aug. 8. A police officer died in the shooting.

Monarez on Friday canceled a meeting with CDC workers that had been scheduled for Monday, according to an email obtained by NBC News. She said she wanted to assure staff that the agency is working to restore their “trust in the safety and security of all CDC workplaces.”

President Donald Trump nominated Monarez after withdrawing his first pick to lead the CDC, former Republican congressman Dave Weldon, hours before his confirmation hearing. Weldon has been criticized for his views on vaccines.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/08/27/cdc-director-susan-monarez-.html

Gladwell: one of my top-5 all- time favorite Canadians.
Dude has written some compelling books.

Are you a fan of "Revisionist History?"

A big fan. He's got such a compelling story telling style - he picks such interesting topics and digs deep. Not all of the RH podcasts are actually Malcom anymore. But they are still a great listen.... two of my favs - "The Primeminister and the Prof" (about Churchill) and there was a 4 part review of gun. Another 4 part series devoted to the USA's obsession with guns. Part 1 is astonashing - "The Sudden Celebrity of Sir John Knight"

* if you have a recommendation on a book or podcast - please share !!

I’m going to get personal for a bit on the topic of vaccine research and why I find cutting funds and denouncing vaccines as so abhorrent, especially when it comes to mRNA. I’m probably going to regret this.

There was a lot of new information and rushing to get things out there during the pandemic. We were trying to sail across an ocean on a ship while we were trying to build the ship. Both administrations worked toward that end. Then politics got involved and misinformation became rampant. Now, we have gotten into a place where mRNA is being attacked outright.

I will share my background a bit now. For any of you who have seen or been to the Sunflower Fields of Hope in Avon or Sandusky, or now seen the newly painted Sunflower Mural in Crocker Park, that is all run by the Prayers From Maria foundation. Maria was my niece and the two of us were very close. She died of a DIPG (Diffuse Intrinsic Pontine Glioma) when she was 7 years old. DIPGs and similarly cancers are nearly 100% fatal, absolutely brutal to witness, and target almost 100% kids.

My sister and her husband started the foundation to raise funds for Glioma research because there currently is not enough of a “market” for Pharma to invest substantially in research. So the nonprofits like this one lead the way.

My understanding is that one of the newly paved headways to combat cancer was mRNA type injections. Basically, our bodies dont usually attack malignant cancer because the cells identify as “us.” mRNA usage was supposed to be a way to help “program” the body to identify the cancerous cells as foreign so that our immune system would know to “attack.” That is my understanding at least…someone else may be far more qualified to explain or correct what I said.

What I worry about with the current HHS environment is the vilification of mRNA and the pívot to shut down research on it. I feel like that would cause great harm.

I’m trying to convey this in such a way that I don’t hit on the hot button political minefield when it comes to vaccines.

So many things in our nation have been made political that should not be political at all to the point it has become mind numbing. Thanks for sharing your story.

In many cases, at least as it appears to me, is often times people don't seem to be able to understand the severity and impact of things until it hits them on a personal level. By then often times sadly it's too late.

Honestly, I'm kinda split on RFK Jr.

Firstly, I see him in a sorta similar way as I do AOC and Bernie, in that I believe that he believes what he's doing is right. You can't say that about many people in the political sphere.

Jumping off from there, he's not wrong about pharma (the industry as a whole) being more about capitalism than it is about helping people... and how our healthcare system/culture puts so little emphasis on preventative medicine and clean living. That part of his shtick isn't wrong at all, and we as a country could stand to gain a great deal if he were to allowed to do what he wants with the American diet and food sources.


It's unfortunate that he takes that perspective to the extreme and makes it into an indictment against all health-related science. That said, of everything going on right now with the admin, I think his agenda is the one I'd pick to actual do the most positive... and we can recover from the negative (i.e. research can be resumed).

Hopefully that bit of personal sharing won't ever be something you regret sharing and doesn't get twisted or used inappropriately. I can't see or imagine why it would. Heartfelt condolences to you and your sister and her family that is a brutal experience to go through. Impossible to ever imagine or put ourseves into her and your shoes.

That podcast above actally highlights what it is that RFK disagrees with - it is the implenting/injection of anything that is not 'healthy' or good for the body. Despite the science showing that introducing a small sample of a virus builds our immunity to it - RFK is against it believing the body only allows a virus or disease to manifest if the body is weak or compromised. I don't know that I have the time or words to fully expand on that - appologies. Wife is calling me

To a certain extent I agree with you. When it comes to diet and big pharma we are certainly on the same page. Making our food supply safer and taking out artificial dies is also something I support.

But factually speaking there have been cuts to everything from food safety inspections to USDA funding.

The biggest concern I have is when will the next pandemic hit? How many people could possibly die by cutting research on mRNA vaccines? And how many advances on things like the one 05 brought up be delayed from being found as a result?

Research on everything from cancer research to mRNA vaccines is being cut. You can recover later but what price will be paid in the meantime? I understand that's a hypothetical because there is no set answer to that question at this time. But we can only hope the consequences aren't catastrophic.

I think he's more nefarious than the other two mentioned. A lot of what his cousin said about him may be anecdotal, but it was somewhat concerning. His willingness to "sell" his voters to either side right before concluding his independent campaign I thought was skeezy as well.

He might have some points when it comes to the diet stuff, but I feel like we're stepping over dollars in many more ways than pennies. For instance, my MAGA-family is now all gung-ho on things like banning seed oils and going for beef tallow. The literature on seed oils is still emerging and not well defined. The literature on saturated fats, like beef tallow, has randomied control trial after randomized control trial speaking about the dangers of it. I also find it funny when my family members parrot his discussion on seed oils right before they down two bottles of wine. That all being said, they could well be, and likely are, misconstruing the bigger message. I would just love - for once - someone talking about the importance of exercise being the most potent longevity "drug" that we have while framing the huge picture that we need to prioritize calories in vs calories out. A huge portion of that being that empty calorie foods are killing us, quite literally.

There is a venn diagram between that last point and what Kennedy stands for, but the part of his circle outside where the two intersect is enough to really ring the crazy and harmful alarm for me. As far as resuming research, that's not really something I'm keen to postpone and then resume.

Does anyone remember during his congressional hearing he said "I dont think anyone should be taking medical advice from me" ?
How How How is this guy with no medical or scientific experience making the most important medical decisions for our country ? Him and trumps will absolutely kill people. trump killed people with covid decisions the first time around.

The real problem is some people actually believe the crap out of Trump and Kennedy’s mouth.

Who knows? Beyond Covid, the Spanish Flu strain in 1917 or so, but we had ongoing pandemics like Measels, polio, smallpox etc. Thankfully we learned to control those. Good science.

Today the problem we have is we have ghoulish science that looks to enhances various virus strains to deliberately release or just plain get sloppy with like they did with Covid, so who knows, maybe 18 months?

Books:
1. "Outliers"
(I'm a living, prime example of the "10,000 hours rule.")

2. "David And Goliath"

Audiobook: "I Hate The Ivy League"

I enjoy reading folks who do their homework, state forcefully their ideas/assertions, and do so in an entertaining, compelling way. I can easily argue points when I disagree... but I'll always appreciate someone who challenges me to read- and think.


Hope this helps.


I really enjoy what Malcolm brings out in me. Sometimes, he makes me want to take up arms, and go to war. Sometimes, he makes me wanna slap him Like My Moms, when I was 10 years old- and let slip a profanity in her kitchen. Either way, a good read is a good read.

best,
clem.

I take more issue with the stuff he was asked about and said he wouldn't do... just to turn around and do exactly that.

I think that's in line with POTUS' strategy and MO, too, though. E.g. talking about how crazy P2025 is and then putting Vought in charge of OMB. Among other things.

I disagree. I think medical science in fooling with gain of function is what killed people. It's funny how China found the gnome code after Covid had spread globally.

They already had it before it leaked, be it intentional or by accident.

JMO

I'm happy to hear that you have maintained your weight at your age to the degree you're still able to fit down rabbit holes. Good job!

Medicare Will Require Prior Approval for Certain Procedures
A pilot program in six states will use a tactic employed by private insurers that has been heavily criticized for delaying and denying medical care.


Listen to this article · 8:23 min Learn more
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reporter headshot1.4k
Frances Ayres in a stairwell, half in shadow, in late afternoon light.
Frances L. Ayres worried that a new program under traditional Medicare will involve the types of pre-approval hassles for medical care that she had tried to avoid. Credit...Nick Oxford for The New York Times
Reed AbelsonTeddy Rosenbluth
By Reed Abelson and Teddy Rosenbluth
Aug. 28, 2025
Like millions of older adults, Frances L. Ayres faced a choice when picking health insurance: Pay more for traditional Medicare, or opt for a plan offered by a private insurer and risk drawn-out fights over coverage.

Private insurers often require a cumbersome review process that frequently results in the denial or delay of essential treatments that are readily covered by traditional Medicare. This practice, known as prior authorization, has drawn public scrutiny, which intensified after the murder of a UnitedHealthcare executive last December.

Ms. Ayres, a 74-year-old retired accounting professor, said she wanted to avoid the hassle that has been associated with such practices under Medicare Advantage, which are private plans financed by the U.S. government. Now, she is concerned she will face those denials anyway.

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services plans to begin a pilot program that would involve a similar review process for traditional Medicare, the federal insurance program for people 65 and older as well as for many younger people with disabilities. The pilot would start in six states next year, including Oklahoma, where Ms. Ayres lives.



The federal government plans to hire private companies to use artificial intelligence to determine whether patients would be covered for some procedures, like certain spine surgeries or steroid injections. Similar algorithms used by insurers have been the subject of several high-profile lawsuits, which have asserted that the technology allowed the companies to swiftly deny large batches of claims and cut patients off from care in rehabilitation facilities.

The A.I. companies selected to oversee the program would have a strong financial incentive to deny claims. Medicare plans to pay them a share of the savings generated from rejections.

The government said the A.I. screening tool would focus narrowly on about a dozen procedures, which it has determined to be costly and of little to no benefit to patients. Those procedures include devices for incontinence control, cervical fusion, certain steroid injections for pain management, select nerve stimulators and the diagnosis and treatment of impotence.

Abe Sutton, the director of the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation, said that the government would not review emergency services or hospital stays.

Mr. Sutton said the government experiment would examine practices that were particularly expensive or potentially harmful to patients. “This is what prior authorization should be,” he said.



Help! United Canceled My Flight, Then Sold Me a Seat on It.
e government may add or subtract to the list of treatments it has slated for review depending on what treatments it finds are being overused, he said.

But while experts agree that wasteful spending exists, they worry that the pilot program may pave the way for traditional Medicare to adopt some of the most unpopular practices of private insurers.

The program, called the Wasteful and Inappropriate Service Reduction Model, is already drawing opposition from Democratic lawmakers, former Medicare officials, physician groups and others.

Patients are also leery. “I think it’s the back door into privatizing traditional Medicare,” Ms. Ayres said.

People enrolled in traditional Medicare who live in Arizona, New Jersey, Ohio, Oklahoma, Texas and Washington State will be included in the experiment, which is expected to start in January and last for six years.



Dr.

ThVinay Rathi, an Ohio surgeon and an expert in Medicare payment policy, warned that the experiment could recreate the same hurdles that exist with Medicare Advantage, where people enroll in private plans. “It’s basically the same set of financial incentives that has created issues in Medicare Advantage and drawn so much scrutiny,” he said. “It directly puts them at odds with the clinicians.”

Trump Administration: Live Updates
Updated
Aug. 29, 2025, 10:04 a.m. ET2 hours ago
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Trump cancels Kamala Harris’s Secret Service protection.
Lisa Cook appears in court in a case that could determine the future of the Fed’s independence.
Typically, these A.I. models scan a patient’s records to determine if a requested procedure meets an insurer’s criteria. For instance, before authorizing back surgery, the system might search for proof that a patient first tried physical therapy or received an MRI showing a bulging disc. Many companies say human employees are involved at the final stages, to review the A.I. evidence and approve the recommendations.

Insurers defend these tactics as being effective in reducing inappropriate care, such as by preventing someone from getting back surgery at tremendous cost instead of another treatment that would work just as well.

Government officials said that any denials would be done by “an appropriately licensed human clinician, not a machine.”

Mr. Sutton also emphasized that the government could penalize companies for inappropriate decisions.



A group of House Democrats, including Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, warned in a letter to government officials in late July that giving for-profit companies a “veto” over care “opens the door to further erosion of our Medicare system.”

Private plans under Medicare Advantage have become increasingly popular, with a little more than half of older Americans and people with disabilities eligible for the program and some 34 million enrolled. But many, like Ms. Ayres, are willing to forgo some of the additional benefits the private plans offer, like dental checkups and gym memberships, to avoid having to jump through numerous hoops to get care.

“It’s really surprising that we are taking the most unpopular part of Medicare Advantage and applying it to traditional Medicare,” said Neil Patil, a senior fellow at Georgetown and a former senior analyst at Medicare.

The American Medical Association wrote in a letter that doctors view prior authorization “as one of the most burdensome and disruptive administrative requirements they face in providing quality care to patients.” Most patients who appeal are successful, but a vast majority never appeal.

Democrats and Republicans in Congress have supported legislation that would curb some of the insurers’ most troublesome practices. The Biden administration enacted some new rules, and the Trump administration was eager to take credit for pushing insurers to pledge to a series of reforms just a few days before unveiling this new program.

In announcing the new model, Dr. Mehmet Oz, the administrator of the Medicare agency, said the goal was to root out fraud, waste and abuse.

“It boils down to patient harm,” Mr. Sutton said. The model is expected to save several billions of dollars over the next six years, although it could save more if it were expanded.

There are clear-cut examples where Medicare has wasted billions on questionable medical care. The agency came under scrutiny earlier this year for spending billions of dollars on expensive “skin substitutes” of dubious value. The pilot program would require patients to seek prior authorization before getting a skin substitute.

But if the algorithm used to authorize those procedures proves to save the government money, Dr. Rathi fears C.M.S. may feel justified in broadening the program to include services that are not such “low-hanging fruit.”

“You’re kind of left to wonder, well, where does this lead next?” he said. “You could be running into a slippery slope.”


How insurers make their decisions remains opaque. A spokesman for Health and Human Services, which oversees the Medicare agency, declined to identify which companies had submitted applications for the contract.

Contractors hired by the government are supposed to watch over payments to ward against inappropriate or wasteful coverage. Those reviews generally happened after someone had received a treatment, though the Biden administration instituted a modest pre-approval program that did not use A.I.

The new model relies on an additional set of private companies for traditional Medicare that have a very clear incentive to deny care.

The companies represent “a whole new bounty hunter,” said David A. Lipschutz, the co-director for the Center for Medicare Advocacy, one of the groups that has urged government officials to abandon the program.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/28/...hk8.L_ZA.095JZYck6sPh&smid=url-share

Many of us knew they would come after medicare too. One way or the other.

Brain-worm ate him up, he’s comically unfit for his post, yet people will have to die to stop them.

LOL....it is a big rabbit.

For me, it would have to be a Wolverine hole right now. I’m 6’3” 225. Trying to get down to my “good looking weight” of 205. Then maybe a badger hole will do.

*like*

More than 1,000 current, former HHS employees sign letter calling on RFK Jr. to resign

Staffers accused Kennedy of "endangering the nation's health."

More than 1,000 current and former employees across the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) signed a letter on Wednesday morning calling for Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s resignation.

Addressed to Kennedy and members of Congress, the signatories accused the secretary of endangering the health of Americans. Save HHS, the group behind the letter, told ABC News it's been sent to the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions; Senate Committee on Finance and the House Committee on Energy and Commerce as well as Majority and Minority leadership.

"We swore an oath to support and defend the United States Constitution and to serve the American people. Our oath requires us to speak out when the Constitution is violated and the American people are put at risk," the letter reads, in part.

It continues, "Thus, we warn the President, Congress, and the Public that Secretary Kennedy's actions are compromising the health of this nation, and we demand Secretary Kennedy's resignation."

In a statement to ABC News, HHS communications director Andrew Nixon said the CDC "has been broken for a long time" and it will take "sustained reform and more personnel changes" to restore trust in the institution.

"From his first day in office, [Kennedy] pledged to check his assumptions at the door -- and he asked every HHS colleague to do the same," the statement read, in part. "That commitment to evidence-based science is why, in just seven months, he and the HHS team have accomplished more than any health secretary in history in the fight to end the chronic disease epidemic and Make America Healthy Again."

Employees from almost every agency signed the letter, including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Food and Drug Administration and the National Institutes of Health. The letter states the employees did so in their personal capacity, on their personal time and without the use of government equipment.

In the letter, HHS employees said Kennedy continues "to endanger the nation's health" with examples such as the ousting of newly-installed CDC director Susan Monarez, followed by the resignations of four top CDC leaders.

The letter also referenced an interview Kennedy gave to Scripps News last month in which he said trusting experts "is not a feature of either a science or democracy," which staffers referred to as "ongoing verbal attacks" of the HHS workforce.

Employees also expressed dismay over Kennedy's June move to remove all 17 members of the CDC's vaccine advisory panel, the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices (ACIP) -- which makes recommendations on the safety, efficacy and clinical need of vaccines -- and replaced them with eight of his own hand-selected members, many of whom have expressed vaccine-skeptic views.

The letter calls out two new members by name, Dr. Robert Malone and Retsef Levi.

Malone -- who made some early contributions to mRNA vaccine technology -- discussed an unfounded theory, disputed by experts, on a podcast during the COVID-19 pandemic, claiming people were "hypnotized" into believing mainstream ideas about COVID-19, such as vaccination.

Meanwhile, Levi previously said in a post on X that there was “indisputable evidence” that mRNA vaccines cause “serious harm including death, especially among young people,” a claim that has not held up in dozens of research studies.

The letter calls on Trump and Congress to appoint a new health secretary if Kennedy refuses to resign.

"We expect those in leadership to act when the health of Americans is at stake," the letter states. "We ask other partner organizations to join us in our call for Secretary Kennedy's resignation and stand in solidarity with those who have already."

The employees said the petition is in response to a letter sent last month to Kennedy -- signed by more than 750 current and former staffers -- beseeching him to "stop spreading inaccurate health information."

Staffers stated the deadly shooting that occurred at the Atlanta headquarters of the CDC on Aug. 8 was "not random" and was driven by "politicized rhetoric."

Authorities said the 30-year-old gunman -- who killed a police officer in the attack -- had been harboring years-long grievances with the COVID-19 vaccine. He believed he suffered negative health effects after he got the vaccine, and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation found written documents at his home indicating that he wanted to make his discontent known.

The earlier letter called on Kennedy to take a number of actions by Tuesday, Sept. 2, including not spreading inaccurate health information, affirming the scientific integrity of the CDC and guaranteeing the safety of the HHS workforce.

The new letter comes just two days after nine former directors and acting directors of CDC published an op-ed in The New York Times, also accusing Kennedy of endangering the health of Americans.

Additionally, on Tuesday, Kennedy published an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal, saying the CDC has "squandered public trust" and that Trump has asked him to "restore that trust and return the CDC to its core mission."

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/1000-...s-sign-letter-calling/story?id=125184233

Florida just decided to kill children

Florida moving to end all childhood vaccine mandates, DeSantis says, making it first state to do so

Governor Ron DeSantis and state Surgeon General Dr. Joseph Ladapo have announced that Florida will work to phase out all childhood vaccine mandates in the state, making it the first in the nation to do so. Vaccines protecting against once-common and sometimes deadly childhood diseases like polio and measles have long been required for children at schools across the U.S.

DeSantis also announced on Wednesday the creation of a state-level "Make America Healthy Again" commission modeled after similar initiatives pushed at the federal level by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Ladapo likened vaccine mandates to "slavery"

Ladapo, who has frequently clashed with the medical establishment, cast current vaccine requirements in schools and elsewhere as an "immoral" intrusion on people's rights bordering on "slavery," and said they hamper parents' ability to make health decisions for their children.

"People have a right to make their own decisions, informed decisions," Ladapo said at a news conference in Valrico, Florida, in the Tampa area. "They don't have the right to tell you what to put in your body. Take it away from them."

The state Health Department, Ladapo said, can scrap its own rules for some vaccine mandates, but others would require action by the Florida Legislature. He did not specify any particular vaccines but repeated several times the effort would end "all of them. Every last one of them."

Florida would be the first state to eliminate so many vaccine mandates, Ladapo added.

Ladapo said his department will work with lawmakers to make it happen. But the idea received immediate pushback from some officials.

Democratic state Rep. Anna Eskamani, who is running for Orlando mayor, said in a social media post that scrapping vaccines "is reckless and dangerous" and could cause outbreaks of preventable disease.

"This is a public health disaster in the making for the Sunshine State," she said on the social platform X.

Florida has required vaccines for kids attending school for decades

In Florida, vaccine mandates for child day care facilities and public schools include shots for measles, chickenpox, hepatitis B, Diphtheria-tetanus-acellular pertussis (DTaP), polio and other diseases, according to the state Health Department's website.

Under DeSantis, Florida resisted imposing COVID vaccines on schoolchildren, requiring "passports" for places that draw crowds, school closures and mandates that workers get the shots to keep their jobs.

"I don't think there's another state that's done as much as Florida. We want to stay ahead of the curve," the governor said.

The state "MAHA" commission would look into such things as allowing informed consent in medical matters, promoting safe and nutritious food, boosting parental rights regarding medical decisions about their children, and eliminating "medical orthodoxy that is not supported by the data," DeSantis said. The commission will be chaired by Lt. Gov. Jay Collins and Florida first lady Casey DeSantis.

"We're getting government out of the way, getting government out of your lives," Collins said.

The commission's work will help inform a large "medical freedom package" to be introduced in the Legislature next session, which would address the vaccine mandates required by state law and make permanent the recent state COVID decisions relaxing restrictions, DeSantis said.

"There will be a broad package," the governor said.

Other states coordinating on vaccine planning

Meanwhile, the Democratic governors of Washington, Oregon and California announced Wednesday that they've created an alliance to coordinate on health and vaccination guidelines, to counter what they call the Trump administration's politicizing of public health decisions.

The partnership plans to align immunization plans based on recommendations from respected national medical organizations, according to a joint statement from Gov. Bob Ferguson of Washington, Gov. Tina Kotek of Oregon and Gov. Gavin Newsom of California.

https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/ron-desantis-florida-eliminate-childhood-vaccine-mandates/

You gotta be kidding me…

In all seriousness, Florida is gonna Florida.

My son had some semi-serious health issues when he was very young (breathing issues when sick). It ended up being something he just had to grow out of, but it did require regular use of a nebulizer and had us running him over to the doctor's office and/or hospital on a couple occasions. He hadn't received all of his vaccinations (too young).

I have some family that very passionately reject modern medicine and choose to follow each and every word folks like RFK and other influencers put out there. When Henry was going through his stuff, we didn't attend family gatherings if they were there on account of the kids playing together (and this was actually right before COVID). It sucked, but ultimately we knew it was the right decision.

I see what Florida is doing in much the same way. If y'all really want your measles outbreaks... well I guess that's your right but I'm gonna do my best to steer clear. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see other states adopting quarantine measures when FL folks need to travel while they're dealing with some sort of outbreak.

I think it’s the kids I feel the worst for. My daughter has a form of MCADD which is a problem if she gets a serious disease or something like the stomach flu where her body goes into extended “fast” mode.

If we didn’t vaccinate her and she got something like the measles or - insert should-be eradicated disease here - she’d be in trouble, big time.

I don't disagree with you, but it's "every man for himself" these days. I'm being callous, but those folks elected these turds... so this is what happens.

This probably reflects more on me than anything, but I just find it harder and harder to feel sympathy, much less empathy.

It is 100% certain children will die because of this. Why is that so hard to understand? We just saw it in Texas, or was that a democratic hoax?

I do understand that, for sure. Just hate the fact that the kids don’t know any better and are the ones probably most likely to suffer.

That's my biggest concern as well. As is often the case, the most innocent among us will surely pay the price.

Ladapo asked: "Who am I to tell you what to put in your bodies"?

if only republicans would apply that logic to Birth Control and an woman's right to choose.

Never saw a more Two faced bunch of fools in my life.

Ah, but when it comes to a women's bodies they aren't telling them what to do or put into their bodies. They're telling them what not to do and what not to put into their bodies. It's about controlling them. Subtle difference I know.

Here is a little background on the man heading up the Immunization Safety Research Expansion and Development Committee, under the HHS's National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

David A. Geier

No medical degree: Geier does not have an MD and is not a licensed physician.

Practicing without a license: More than a decade ago, he was disciplined by Maryland regulators for practicing medicine without a license.

Vaccine skepticism: He is a prominent anti-vaccine activist known for publishing studies, often in low-impact or discredited journals, that promote a link between vaccines and autism.

This is the most unqualified Administration EVER!

Trump hires only the Best my ass!

The only qualification they have is kissing his ...

Truth

Stupid performance by Lapado. Not sure what you gain. Illness and mortality of children for this crap. Kids die for DeSantis. Disablers, not enablers with these mandates encouraging bad policies. My wife and I are retired teachers; this would change working conditions and put us at risk sending us unprotected kids.
Pass this for the ignorant parents and politicians crowing about vax rebellion; these DEMAND media pressers to showboat for the cameras. I bet most politicians had all standard vaccines if we looked.
Attach some strings to bad decisions and ignoring medical scientific proof: If you declare that you don't want to do this, for conscience or faith, or whatever convenience grounds you are allowed to claim to ignore the medical facts, not the fringe noise by RFK,j, you will immediately earn the freedom to home school all the family kids and forfeit your public education for those kids unless brought up to required compliance. Stupid policy that should be buried. Protect the public.

We appear to be headed for a few decades of health issues for Children. All because some nutjob thinks vaccines are not proven successful... All that idiot has to do is look around at the kinda of sicknesses and deaths we don't see a lot of any more.

Then the morons cut cancer research? I can't stand the stupidity.

When does an infection turn into a pandemic?
when the Ro is greater than 0.8
Ro is the number of peoplee infected by one infected person

What was the Ro for covid?
Around 1 => I have seen 0.9 to 1.4

What is the Ro for measles?
20 => no I am not missing a decimal point


Measels one of the most contageous infections to ever exist

The only thing I know of more contageous?
Internet stupidity

This. Right here.

Hang out with me for a day, I'll show you contageous stupidity.

I am old enough to remember the common public as a child; we saw braces and crutches and wheelchairs with victims of TB and polio, and also saw "measles parties", all stuff you would need to Google today. No upside to this party lunacy if these are the stakes. Trying to glorify the freedom to sicken, cripple, even to kill innocent kids, well look what you've proved; look what you've won. Americans are made weaker and more vulnerable to vaccinating foreign countries. Stand up for protection. Control what you can. Kick him and his garbage to the curb.

*like*

You are entitled to as much tinfoil as you want. Which doesn’t make your position true, it makes it a belief and that’s fine for some things but not others.

As for RFK, Jr.? He is a brain damaged idiot. Eating better? Great idea. Michelle Obama suggests it and the Reich Wing goes apeshit. RFK, Jr., plans one of the larger intrusions into the sacrosanct, holy of holies (non-existent) free market and everything is groovy.

The wholesale destruction Kennedy has created is psychotic. His old man should have worn a raincoat or pulled out.

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/BylIuEF8LQs[/video]

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cfxB0xBH0dQ[/video]

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_Qifka9oPLA[/video]

A few excerpts from the recently fired CDC director's congressional hearing

Key points, she contends that she was fired because JFK jr gave her 2 directions:

1, to accept vaccine recommendations from the ACIP (who just had multiple long time members replaced and new "compliant" members placed) without looking at the data
2, to fire multiple career vaccine officals without cause

1, would you not want a lawyer in her situation?

2, nothing in that link exposed anything
Supposedly that meeting with RFK was recorded (per your link)
IF it was, let's hear it
That will tell us the truth.

1. Sure. Why would she hire the two "Get Trump"ers? And you're glossing over the fact that they were passing her notes during her testimony. Terrible look. But since this entire thing is about digging through a bunch of unverifiable lies (there is no recording), looking like a liar (anyone that constantly says "I can't recall" and can't answer a single question) loses in the court of public opinion.

I don't know what "link" you're talking about, those are posts on X. Anyway, anyone that watched a decent portion (requirement: IQ above 70 and a BS meter) can see we have someone crying about science while she makes excuses for layers and layers of CDC politics. Seems disingenuous, but YMMV.

Funny thing is, RFK can fire her for any reason he sees fit. That's how it works. If she thinks she's going to win based on "upholding scientific integrity", she's already lost.

1, I imagine because they are really good lawyers and she can afford them.

2, the link to the 2nd twitter post, try actually opening it up:

"7/ The FINAL BLOW: The "trust" conversation with the Secretary. She claims the Secretary said he "could not trust" her. Mullin reveals the truth: "That isn't how that conversation went. And you know that, don't you?" He indicates the meeting was recorded, catching her in a lie."

If a recording exists, let's hear it.
Prove her right or prove her wrong
Either way, let's hear the truth

3, I don't know what YMMV means

Uh, okay. Still a bad look in my opinion.

I guess I was confused by "link", you're obviously talking about the body of the post, no problem. I don't think it truly "exposes" anything either. As I said in my last post, this will be a he said/she said anyway, and RFK can fire anyone he wants to. She's trying to create a conflict and outrage with her "scientific integrity" language, but most people know there's not much integrity there. And again, much of the testimony is rooted in the political culture at the CDC anyway... which makes her "case" look even weaker.

My bad: Your Mileage May Vary is old school internet, straight from the 70s and 80s car ads to the 90s internet.

Oh yeah. Markwayne later said he was informed that there was no audio. Probably made it up as you can't trust any of these politicians any farther than you can throw them.

I don't know if link is the right terminology
Could be an ID ten T error on my part.

So there was a recording without audio?
That seems sus
Agree that you can't trust any of these politicians

...But can she afford them because she's on the take from corporations that produce vaccines? Or is big Pharma just providing the lawyers?

I started out intending to put that in purple, but honestly neither would surprise me. My faith in institutions and people keeps getting lower.

Didn't stop him from Lying about it.. Did it? Trying to score cheap points for his fearless leader.

Is it possible they record everything but only let it be known if it works to their advantage?

There is a difference in creating a conflict and exposing what really happened. Unless of course you buy the RFK Jr. BS that she actually told him she wasn't trustworthy?

We get it. To you everything is a conspiracy which is expressed by open ended, unanswerable question created out of thin air. The "prove me wrong" theory yet once again.

I'm not claiming anything. I'm not pointing to "facts."

I gave my ambiguous thoughts.

Your offended that I posed questions and stated my feelings?

Apparently you think I'm not allowed to have those if they disagree with your narrative.

I don't have a voice in my head telling me the "facts" like some people. I have doubts. I admit I don't know things where I don't have access to the process and evidence.

I'm not offended whatsoever. Just pointing out they're questions based on suspicions you have created with nothing of substance to base those questions on.

That doesn't bother me in the least. Sorry that you take me calling it what it is as some kind of personal attack.

You have every right to just make up questions in your head and doubt things with which there is no actual basis to doubt them. A lot of people do.

Clem and dawgs, I connected some dots in this old noggin, high school memories of Transcendentalists and protest and personal values and politics and some deplorable politicians (those were The Good Ol' Days!). America the Current has seemed unsettling and familiar, more than mere deja vu. Dawn! I connected some dots!
Consider the lyrics, the movie, the values captured in Billy Jack. Remember and reflect on its theme song "One Tin Soldier" which I believe was performed by a group named Coven (?). Idealism wasn't out of favor then. My friends and I found the lyrics powerful indeed. Didn't;t know if you had any extra you might add,Clem, and I always read those.

Lolz.

AI Overview

A study of nearly 2.5 million children in Sweden, published in
JAMA in 2024, found no causal link between prenatal exposure to acetaminophen (the active ingredient in Tylenol) and an increased risk of autism.
Key findings of the 2024 Swedish study

Sibling control analysis: The researchers used sibling control analysis to rule out familial factors, such as genetics and shared environment, that might influence a child's risk of developing autism. When comparing siblings where one was exposed to acetaminophen in utero and the other was not, no increased risk was found.

Addressing confounding variables: The study indicated that the slight associations found in earlier research were likely due to uncontrolled familial and environmental factors rather than the medication itself.

Context for conflicting study results

The scientific debate around acetaminophen and autism involves conflicting findings from different types of research.

Observational studies: Some past studies have shown a statistical association, not causation, between acetaminophen use during pregnancy and a slightly increased risk of autism. This can be misleading because pregnant people with certain genetic predispositions, chronic pain conditions, or fevers might be more likely to take acetaminophen, and these underlying conditions may be the real source of the observed correlation.

Meta-analyses: A review of 46 studies, published in BMC Environmental Health in August 2025, supported an association but did not prove causation. The authors advised using the lowest effective dose for the shortest duration under a doctor's guidance.

High-quality research: The 2024 JAMA study is considered one of the highest-quality studies on the topic due to its large size and rigorous methodology using sibling comparisons.

Medical and scientific consensus

Reputable medical organizations, including the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) and the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine (SMFM), have consistently stated that acetaminophen remains a safe option for managing pain and fever during pregnancy.

Untreated fever and pain during pregnancy can pose significant risks to both mother and fetus, and acetaminophen is considered the safest over-the-counter option for relief.

Most experts and health organizations emphasize that a proven causal link between acetaminophen and autism does not exist and that previous associations can be explained by other factors.

Lolz indeed. The dude couldn't even say acetaminophen... how could he possibly understand the difference between association and causality.

The studies SUGGEST an association between the two. Basically, if you're taking a high dose of tylenol for 4 weeks or longer then there's probably something going on other than just taking tylenol.

Thanks for the shoutout, Bard. I'll try to address, as best I can.

"Listen children to a story, that was written long ago..."
"Turned the stone, and looked beneath it- 'Peace On Earth' was all it said..."


Hippie gen was about a 1/2 generation before my time; I was entering Middle School when that movie/soundtrack hit. Even so, my mid-60's youthful brain was starting to "connect adult dots," and I could see the folly and hypocrisy of those in charge. I was part of that first generation who had in-home TV since birth, so I'd grown up seeing war footage from Viet Nam, scenes of war protest, Civil Rights demonstrations... and b+w vignettes of people who looked like me being swept down Southern streets/attacked by German Shepherds. I was raised by generations of teachers, clergy, law enforcement and Legal practice... so my young mind was already keenly attuned to injustice at an early age. Some s# just ain't right- and a youthful (growing) mind is gonna clock that s# for future reference, yo. I saw Billy Jack a few years after it dropped. I saw it on TV. Taken by Billy Jack's mixed heritage (similar, but not the same as my own), I found that book "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee"- and read a side of America's past that helped to frame my understanding for what I was seeing.

Fast-forward to now:

I am witnessing a three-fold assault on the pillars of The Enlightenment:

1. Silence the satirists/comics/artists. (call them "talentless")
2. Silence the thinkers. (call them "Elitists" or "The Enemy of the People")
3. Silence the dissenters. (call them anything you want... by now, your audience will already follow you anywhere)

We are living through times much like the '60's-70's again. "Nixon on HGH."
But I remain hopeful- because I've been here long enough to see a young Clemdawg learn to read in a Federally-funded public school- when so many of his forbears couldn't.

Bard: you know this- it's always been "Two steps forward; one step back."
For as long as we've been here.


Because Human Nature never changes.

Well said, my friend. I am seeing more and more congruencies with the movies. Modern reality seems more rotten. Because we are working at it. "Now the valley cries in anger / Mount your stories and draw your swords!" We really loved the moral bar set by the Transcendentalists and the contrast with the news as reported daily. Just seems like "deja vu all over again." Clem, yes it was as you said, and a call to action for many. Can't find that like button, but pretend I gave you one anyhow.

"So go ahead & hate your neighbor/ go ahead and cheat a friend./ Do it all in the name of Heaven,/ so you justify it in the end. . . . "

Lolz.

https://www.fda.gov/media/188843/download?attachment

It'll be difficult for you, but actually read what MAGA's FDA put out and consider that they say there MAY be an association, and this hasn't been confirmed, and there's no evidence of a causal relationship.

I'm not going to keep explaining these relatively simple concepts to you when you keep demonstrating you don't want to understand beyond what you're fed from your echo chamber.

And that message from Tylenol? It was from 2017 well before the two and half million person study showing no connection. But you know and said exactly what it is.

https://apnews.com/article/autism-drug-leucovorin-trump-kennedy-d2b36faef3c4fc1f85e9fa9f958ad6c6

'Further investigation is very different than issuing guidance.

Also, I'm sure the part about FDA approving a basically untested treatment for autism is making the vaccine-doubters feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

It's convenient to omit that an extensive study was conducted in 2024 of two and a half million people that should have put all of that to rest. The statements made prior to 2024 were correct in asking for such an extensive. Those requests and previous questions have since been answered.

When you want answers you ask for them. When someone goes out and gets those answers the previous questions are no longer relevant. But by adding context it changes things drastically and some people have reasons not to do that.

I hope these are all fake pills.

If that damn brain worm had finished the job, we would be dealing with bug brains now. RFK Sr. wants his DNA back.

RFK Jr. suggests circumcision is linked to autism. Here's what experts say.

Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. suggested there may be a link between autism and circumcision while reasserting the unproven theory that Tylenol causes the disorder — and medical experts are pushing back against the claims.

"There's two studies that show children who are circumcised early have double the rate of autism. It's highly likely because they are given Tylenol," Kennedy stated during a Cabinet meeting on Thursday.

Circumcision is a surgical procedure that removes the foreskin from a boy's penis. For some, circumcision is a part of cultural or religious practices. A 2025 study from Johns Hopkins Medicine found the prevalence of the practice had decreased nearly 5%, going from 54.1% to 49.3% from 2012 to 2022.

Kennedy did not cite the studies he was referring to, but experts say potential matches — a 2013 study of eight countries and a 2015 study from Denmark, which both suggested a link between circumcision and autism rates — have issues.

The 2013 study looked at circumcision rates in boys versus autism rates. The authors admitted that national and state averages may show correlation, not causation, and said their study may have mistakes, bias and confounding. "Circumcision practices are also tied to culture and religion, which also affect autism diagnoses and healthcare use," said Dr. Céline Gounder, CBS News medical contributor and editor-at-large for public health at KFF Health News.

Confounding, which occurs when the relationship between an exposure and an outcome is distorted by the presence of a third variable, is "at the root of much of what RFK Jr. cites and claims," said Gounder.

For example, early studies linked coffee drinking with higher heart disease risk, but smoking (popular among the coffee drinkers in the studies) was the true driver, not coffee. People eat more ice cream and go swimming more in the summer. Swimming, not eating ice cream, might lead to drowning, but a poorly designed study might conclude ice cream was the culprit.

The 2015 study found that the risk of autism was higher among circumcised boys under age 5, but after age 5, the association disappeared. "If circumcision truly caused autism," said Gounder, "that association should continue even after age 5. They're likely picking up on the fact that kids undergoing circumcision in the healthcare system have greater contact with the healthcare system and have parents with higher levels of education and income — all of which are associated with being diagnosed with autism at a younger age than other kids. That association may disappear once kids start school, when teachers and counselors pick up on the symptoms."

Other experts also opposed Kennedy's claims.

"There is absolutely no studies establishing any causality," Dr. Steven Abelowitz, founder and medical director of Ocean Pediatrics, told CBS News. "While some observational studies suggest possibly an association, there's no studies (showing causality) — and the conclusion by any credible medical resource is agreeing that there's no causal relationship between Tylenol, circumcisions or vaccines to autism."

Acetaminophen — the active ingredient in Tylenol and many cold and flu medications — being at the base of the circumcision theory also doesn't add up in terms of timing, according to experts. According to the American Academy of Pediatrics, children younger than 12 weeks should not be given acetaminophen unless instructed by their pediatrician, and most circumcisions happen before then with a local anesthetic.

While circumcision can happen at any age, most occur within the first week after birth and usually within the first 48 hours, according to the Cleveland Clinic.

"We almost never, ever use Tylenol after circumcision," Abelowitz said, adding he's performed about 10,000 circumcisions across his 30 years of practice.

Kennedy's comments have even garnered international attention, with the United Kingdom's National Autistic Society sharing a statement.

"More dangerous anti-science from the US Health Secretary Robert F Kennedy, now linking autism with circumcision. This is not based on any form of rigorous, robust research and could put lives at risk," Mel Merritt, the organization's head of policy and campaigns, said in a statement.

Last month, President Trump announced that the Food and Drug Administration believes the use of acetaminophen during pregnancy can be associated with an increased risk of autism without sharing any new evidence. Medical experts, however, have said the medication is safe.

Following the administration's announcement, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists President Dr. Steven J. Fleischman said in a statement, "Suggestions that acetaminophen use in pregnancy causes autism are not only highly concerning to clinicians but also irresponsible when considering the harmful and confusing message they send to pregnant patients, including those who may need to rely on this beneficial medicine during pregnancy."

Kenvue, the maker of Tylenol, previously told CBS News that "independent, sound science clearly shows that taking acetaminophen does not cause autism."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rfk-jr-circumcision-linked-autism-experts/

RFK Jr. said, "There is a direct correlation between the foreskin surrounding the penis and the brain. There is no better evidence of that than just how horny boys get when they go through puberty."

The game is over and the final score is in! It's Team Brain Worm with the win!

Well more men do think with the little head than the big head