DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Predict your 53

Stefanski and Berry were rookie hires. We knew they would make mistakes.

One thing I've commended them on is when they made mistakes they corrected making better decisions.

For example, Berry's drafting of DT in the beginning. Now, he has bought in much better talent. You can say the same with WR.

Berry's late round (3rd - 7th) draft selections appear much better today than his beginning years.

I like this years team. He has added a lot of youth. I believe the season will go on how well these young guys produce.

I think AB and KS are clueless about NFL QBs.

They kicked a young, brash, playoff-winning QB to the curb.

They pulled down their pants to sign a malcontent sex offender QB who sat out the entire previous season pouting over HC and FO hires. The haul they gave up was ridiculous. Then doubled down by revamping a reasonably-potent offense to cater to said QBs glaring limitations. Not to mention NOT bringing back Mr Flacco so as to not upset the towel's fragile ego. THEN had the audacity to tell us that the towel gave them the best chance to win.

They sign Pickett and tell us that he's the next Sam Darnold reclamation. Drafted an undersized but well-experienced Gabriel and then the big splash for a guy no one else seemingly wanted. Giving us (4) QBs with the likelihood that the towel will declare himself ready to play later this year and that would lead us to possibly (5) QBs on the 53.

They got back what they wasted on getting Pickett (although a year later) and realized that Sanders isn't going to be ready for awhile. So much so (not ready) that they re-signed Zappe to the PS. You can bet if Flacco and Gabriel are BOTH out, Zappe will be elevated before Sanders takes a snap...he's THAT not-ready.

For the 2026 draft it seems likely that they will draft a QB in Rd 1. He likely will not be deemed "ready" at least the first half of the year. So for 2026 we will take time to develop the new guy AND the Sanders. Will they then roster: the new guy, the towel, Gabriel (as the starter) AND still keep Sanders? Who is then Gabriel's backup?

There is no way in heaven I would trust this clown show to make yet another decision on arguably the most important position in all of sports.

Still think the "clown" is above the GM and HC. Replacing them doesn't fix that. I don't think clown is the right word really. I think business over on the field product is the problem.

Like them, the Haslams were new to the role of NFL team owners. Hopefully they're all learning. I have my doubts. Honestly, I'm a bit worried about how much power J.W. has. Sanders feels like something he'd push for to me. Total publicity/money play just like the Dude Wipes sponsorship stuff. To hell with the on the field results, he's got to grab more quick money. I think he wants the on field results, I just don't think he understands how much the short term money related decisions affect the football.

I think Berry and Stefanski would have preferred to keep Pickett over Sanders. Pickett isn't selling anything in Cleveland, though. Feels like a decision that came down from above to me. Unfortunately, Berry and Stefanski like getting paid. Go against the boss and they're blackballed for life. Being the whipping boys is part of their job to me. I do wonder how much honesty we get from them vs repeating the company lines. I'd guess we get a lot of the latter.

The bad of Sanders and Watson is way too similar to me. Maybe Sanders can fix it. I have my doubts. Stefanski can lead them to water. He can't make them drink it. Both rely too much on hero ball. They are too slow in structure.

One thing people conveniently leave out when they post such drivel is this......

KS doesn't make the decisions on who the Browns sign to contracts. KS does not control the analytics department. He doesn't control the scouting department or the draft. KS is not the GM nor the owner. He is only the chef who works with the ingredients those above him provide in order to make the meal.

He took Flacco who those above him signed off the couch combined with other QB's whose names most NFL fans don't even know, except for watson for all the wrong reasons and still made the playoffs.

The GM makes the decision on who the Browns sign and draft, not KS. And even at that unless Haslam agrees to sign the check they still wont be signed.

Stop blaming the chef for the ingredients he is provided with.

It might be unreasonable to assume that KS doesn't have any input into who we draft or sign off the couch or other places. I agree however, he's not the final say. Berry has made a point of saying KS is involved.

Some folks are quick to say, GET HIM OUTTA HERE.. I'm not for that at all. I think he's taken what he's mostly given and done pretty well with it. So I'm all for keeping KS.

I still hold the top of the company at fault for the entire Watson fiasco.

One problem. KS is the HC. For the vast majority of the year he is coaching the team. It's the scouting department and analytics department that breaks down the film and the numbers to prepare for the draft. That is their job and responsibility. As it pertains to signing players once again it's the analytics department, the salary cap and the GM who make those decisions.

I would think it's logical to believe that KS and even Schwartz tell the FO what style of players they need to fit in their O and D systems. I mean why would you get players that simply don't fit into the system you're running?

But if it were KS making draft decisions why would the Browns waste millions of dollars on an analytics department, a scouting department and a GM to do that same job?

In the draft you never know for sure who is even going to still be on the board at your selection. I find it hard to believe that KS would know enough about all of the players in the draft to be able to work on the fly like that.

Might they ask his opinion on which he would prefer to have among two or three different selections they have in mind? Possibly. But I think it makes far more sense that he would give them the prototypical type of players he wants at each position and then the GM and his supporting staff would take it from there.

I wouldn't trust Andrew Berry to draft my fantasy football team. Its unreal he still has
Supporters and those who think he is a competent GM.
John Dorsey was a much better GM.
Since AB took over, how QBs have the Browns shuffled through ?
8,9? Berry's draft record is bottom of the barrel. Even his trades
Are lacking merit. How did Elijah Moore turn out ? His FA signings are laughable.
Dionte Johnson , Juan Thornhill .
Your 3 and 14 for a reason . And no solution to the QB room .

You make some good points, but in response to a poster expressing an opinion of the FO you've gone straight to attacking the poster. Thats not cool when you or others do it. Jmo

Berry is responsible for the roster. My opinion is that after 5 years it ain't very good. You said thats largely down to the QB .... Well how many years or decades does Berry get? We had a serviceable QB to win play off games .... He had a bad attitude and was immature. Warts and all he was a better option than anything since .... Do KS or Berry carry ANY blame for not being able to mentor the young problem child ?? As for KS, 1 there is the issue of not being able to reach or mentor bad boy Baker. Two he has shown repeatedly, above average results when there are challenges but poor results when the roster is more loaded.

You can disagree with me or WSU who is more extreme in his condemnation... But there's too much personal attack on the boards already, no need to add to it.

I totally agree with you - if you offer a differing opinion, you can expect an attack or your team loyalty questioned.

Back to KS, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: KS doesn't want a top 5 QB, he wants a QB to manage his run first and often offensive mentality and limit all other QB mistakes. There's been only one Browns QB to ever throw for over 4,000 yards and that was Brian Sipe way back in 1980. By the way, that was the only year the Browns made the playoffs in his 10-year career with the Browns. Hmmmm

Since Cousins became a starter in 2015, between 2025 and 2022 - Cousins threw for over 4,000 yards every year except the year Stefanski was his OC. It was also Cousins second lowest year as a starter for TD passes. Baker Mayfield's two lowest years for passing yardage (discounting 2022) is 2020 and 2021. In fact, Mayfield has thrown for over 4,000 yards the last two seasons with playoff appearances besting his best season passing yards in Cleveland from 2019. Watson, with all his issues, in the games he started the last 3-years, Watson has averaged the lowest attempts per game than any time in his career. His completion percentage is lower than anytime but his rookie year with the Browns.

Last year, 2024, 4-6 4,000 yd passers made the playoffs (Goff, Mayfield, Darnold and Jackson). In 2023, 9-10 4,000 yd passers made the playoffs: (Tua, Goff, Prescott, Allen, Purdy, Mahomes, Love, Stroud, Mayfield). In 2022, 8-9 4,000 yd passers made the playoffs: (Mahomes, Herbert, Brady, Cousins, Burrow, Allen, Smith, Lawrence). In 2021, 8-10 4,000 yd passers made the playoffs: (Brady, Stafford, Mahomes, Carr, Burrow, Prescott, Allen, Rodgers). In 2020, 6-12 4,000 passers made the playoffs: (Mahomes, Brady, Allen, Rodgers, Wilson, Rivers).

The point is your chances of making the playoffs is greatly enhanced by having a 4,000 yd passer. In Stefanski, that will never happen with his coaching method. It's also "stupid as hell" to continue to acquire "gun slingers" to be game mangers. I'm convinced the Browns will never have a top 5 QB as long as Stefanski is coaching them.

...so the team with Nick Chubb used Nick Chubb instead of throwing to underwhelming receiving corps? He used prime Dalvin Cook for 1100+ yards and 13 rushing TDs? (Also the season Diggs was traded away prior to.) What possibly could the coach have been thinking? Using your best players? Who does that?

I didn't say a word that defended Berry. Sadly if he goes so will Stefanski. But if things don't change, and quickly, that's what I expect to happen.

There are a few, very few posters and you know who they are, that do nothing but come here to attack and demean everything from the top down when it comes to this team. They never have a good word to say about anything. Not even players like Garrett. They'll get exactly what they give and I'm not concerned in the least bit about who likes that or not. jmo

At least you finally manned up and admitted "you're" not one of us. As if we didn't already know that.

I don’t bother reading his posts anymore. T-Roll.

Ditto.

Yawn.

What people seem to overlook was the fact that KS was able to adapt the gameplan to fit Joe and the team that was struggling to find offense, were suddenly very formidable. 300 yards out of the box in the loss to the rams. But the rest of the season was something else. Highlighted by the blowout primetime win to secure a playoff spot against the Jets.

Watson by the way never sniffed a 300 yard game.


The mark of a good coach is to adapt the gamelan to the personnel. He won with DTR after the disaster in Baltimore by beating Pittsburgh.

KS gets a lot of grief on this forum, but he can gamelan a strategy that give the Browns a chance to win.

People doing nothing but attacking or being negative about the administration, are doing just that. Getting personal to attack posters is not fighting fire with fire, its not an equal and opposite counter point, it's simply toxic and endemic of online forums and SM. Jmo also.

If this is your idea of a personal attack......


...... you have set the bar very low. I had no idea your sensibilities were so easily triggered.

jmo

Theres a reason why long time posters like OverToad , Diam Dawg
Versatile Dawg , and others dont post here anymore. If you don't agree with
The majority, you get chastised if you have a different opinion
Some on here act like their opinions are the final word

Hating everything Browns isn't an opinion. It's an agenda. It seems you think people can't see the difference.

"Some on here act like their opinions are the final word" - If there was any single person that thought that way it was Versatile Dawg! He chastised anyone with a differing opinion from his.......

And some others dont post for the rest of the season after the Browns beat the Bengals on prime time.

Kind of like a lot of subjects, some even discussed on this board.

I'm not 100% sure, but Diam and Vers were constantly being banned by the site for one thing or another. not sure about Overtoad

LOL. Bengals fans gotta go lick their wounds.

PIT - your post I commented on was better without your first sentance. And whether people have an agenda or opinions - what does it matter. There are plenty of people I ignore even if they aren't on ignore ... Bengals fan is one of them.

True. Only this board isn't named after a person or a political party. This is a Browns board and the Pure Football forum.

And while I'm not trying to elevate anyone's expectations, the Bengals are notoriously slow starters to the season.

It's the right time to play Cincy, but I also understand that they've finally ramped up their starters this preseason

Toad was a great poster and one of my “board friends.” He never once hinted at leaving because of the bickering. Never took anything personally and always had fun and got along with everybody. The reference from stripper was BS.

I agree. It’s a big chip on their shoulder and it does feel different this time. That was a couple years in there where they missed the playoffs because of the slow start. EVERYONE down here is putting their pressure on Zac Taylor. They open against us and JAX this year, so they are going to try and come out with their foot on the gas pedal. There’s no denying the talent of their offense.

I think the bigger point to make from your post is, it’s very difficult to find a QB that is going to get 4,000 yards in a season… if he does, yes you are more likely to make the playoffs, but only about half the playoff teams have a 4,000 yards passer on average, so if you want to make the playoffs regularly, you might want to figure out a more consistent way to win games.

Now that you say that about Toad, I think that's kinda how I remember him as well... My thoughts exactly on Stipper

So, how many QB's have the Browns had since 1999 that had or have had the true potential since 1999 to be a 4,000-yard passer? That was Mayfield who they just threw away and Watson who has been a total bust. One had the potential where the Browns were unwilling or incapable to develop and the other the Browns couldn't get him to perform or tried to change him. Not many teams get two chances in 5 years and have swings and misses on both.

Same swing and miss… miss on Baker because they swung at Watson. Haslem saw an opportunity, which was only available by the way because of Watson’s flaws that he chose to ignore. Watson is a putz… we all knew how this was going to end.

Moving forward, we can’t rely on the expectations that we will get another opportunity at a 4000 yard passer. We both know it isn’t currently on the team. They will need to be one of the other 20+ teams in the league that don’t have a 4000 yard passer. Stefanski’s system is based on this premise, so it applies to the other 66% of the league. I’d rather have those odds than the guy who is trying to make a 3000 yard passer fit his 4000 yard passer system.

Which is the problem from the get-go. The Browns have been relentless in trying to find a 4,000-yard passer the last 5 years, but they are hell bent on making them fit into a 3,000-yard Stefanski passer system.

The premise that not having a 4,000 yd passer increase's your odds of making the playoffs is just a false narrative. The numbers don't lie. In the last 5-years, if a team had a 4,000-yd passer - 74.4% of the time that team made the playoffs. Over the last 5-seasons, 4,000 yd passers accounted for an average per year of 50% of the playoff spots (7). The other 25 teams (on a per yearly average) account or the other 7 playoff spots or roughly a 28% yearly average of making the playoffs with or without a 4,000 yd passer. Currently, the league is averaging 9.2 - 4,000 yd passers per season over the last 5 seasons. Those 9.2 teams are accounting for 7 (50%) of the playoff spots while the other 22.8 teams are accounting for the other 7 (50%) of the playoff slots.

The bigger issue is the AFC North has 3 teams with 4,000-yard capabilities and 1 doesn't. That puts the Browns at a huge disadvantage especially when playing from behind.

As I said, the Browns have had two swings and misses under Stefanski/Berry the last 5-years (6 now). I don't disagree with the premise of going after a 4,000 yd passer because the numbers don't lie. What I have an issue with is a) the Browns total lack of patience with any QB and b) a HC in Stefanski that has a proven history of not wanting that type of offense or more likely, the inability to coach that type of player. A perfect example would be P. Manning who threw 28 interceptions as a rookie - he'd never survive under a HC like Stefanski - look no further than what happened with Mayfield.

Finally, to challenge the below post:
Originally posted by Bull Dog
...so the team with Nick Chubb used Nick Chubb instead of throwing to underwhelming receiving corps? He used prime Dalvin Cook for 1100+ yards and 13 rushing TDs? (Also the season Diggs was traded away prior to.) What possibly could the coach have been thinking? Using your best players? Who does that?

Last season there were six 4,000 yd passers. 4 of them made the playoffs. Detroit had Goff as the 4,000 yd passer with Gibbs rushing for 1,412 yds and Montgomery 775. Tampa bay had Mayfield as the 4,000 yd passer with Irving rushing for 1,122 yds. Minnesota had Darnold as the 4,000 yd passer with Jones rushing for 1,138 yds. Baltimore had Jackson as the 4,000 yds passer and Henry with 1,912 yds rushing.

In 2023, there were ten 4,000 yd passers. 9 of those 10 teams made the playoffs. 9 of the 10 teams had a 1,000 yd rusher either by individual or RB by committee. Missing the rushing goal but made the playoffs was Mayfield 4,044 yds passing/White 990 rushing. The other 9: Tua 4,624 passing/Mostert 994 & Achane 800 rushing, Goff 4,575 passing/Montgomery 1,015 & Gibbs 945 rushing, Prescott 4516 passing/Pollard 1,005 rushing, Allen 4,306 passing/Cook 1,122 rushing, Purdy 4,280 passing/McCaffrey 1,459 yds passing, Mahomes 4,183 passing/Pacheco 935 & Edwards-Helaire 223 rushing, Love 4,159 passing/Jones 652 & Dillon 613 rushing, Stroud 4.108 passing/Singletary 898 & Pierce 416 rushing, and Lawrence 4016 passing/Etienne 1008 rushing (didn't make playoffs).

Bull Dog's post is a false narrative based on the preceding numbers.

You're the one crafting narratives using numbers without context.

Was Chubb not our best offensive player? Did Dalvin Cook not have those stats? What was false?

Unfortunately for Stefanski, he's had to play the Ravens and Steelers defenses every year. In a cold weather division where none of the teams have domes. (With hurt/backup QBs and otherwise mangled rosters)

Lions- Dome team.
Minnesota- Dome team.
Tampa Bay- in the South, play 2 dome teams in the division, Carolina bottom tier defense. (Saints and Falcons also bad defenses)
Dolphins- in the South, play the Jets and Patriots twice a year, perform much worse at the end of the year in weather.
Cowboys- Dome team
Chiefs- Best QB on the planet

You're not comparing apples to apples. Teams aren't facing the same opponents in the same places.

Yeah, but if you totally ignore any context...........